Theosophy and your Opinions

[RiverSnake]

-I've recently become interested in an author named C.W. Leadbeater and his works on dreamwork, philosophy, and the esoteric.

 

-It's also come to my attention that he was a proponent of Theosophy(this is a new ideology to me).

 

-I was wondering if anyone here has recovered any gems from his work or even studied Theosophy: based on what little i've read it does have some concepts in common with Taoism and would like anyone else's opinion who is well read on the topic as well as his books.

 

-Thanks

Edited August 29, 2010 by Tao Apprentice

[trailmaker]

-I've recently become interested in an author named C.W. Leadbeater and his works on dreamwork, philosophy, and the esoteric.

 

-It's also come to my attention that he was a proponent of Theosophy(this is a new ideology to me).

 

-I was wondering if anyone here has recovered any gems from his work or even studied Theosophy: based on what little i've read it does have some concepts in common with Taoism and would like anyone else's opinion who is well read on the topic as well as his books.

 

-Thanks

 

Haven't studied beyond wiki summary, but got to like the fact that the awareness experience is personal.

 

For Lao Tze, access to Oneness with all was something he took from the local priests and placed in the hands of the people...

[Seth Ananda]

-I've recently become interested in an author named C.W. Leadbeater and his works on dreamwork, philosophy, and the esoteric.

 

-It's also come to my attention that he was a proponent of Theosophy(this is a new ideology to me).

 

-I was wondering if anyone here has recovered any gems from his work or even studied Theosophy: based on what little i've read it does have some concepts in common with Taoism and would like anyone else's opinion who is well read on the topic as well as his books.

 

-Thanks

As far as I know, he was a paedophile, he molested Krishnamurti, and all his writing Ideas he 'stole' from his student Annie Bessant.

Along time ago I was friends with some of the senior life Members of the Theosophical society. Both who had personally know all three i just mentioned. The stories did not sound good...

I do think there is some good stuff in that realm though... Have you read - How to know higher worlds, by Rudolph Steiner? Thats a great book IMO. Anthroposophy grew out of theosophy and IMO develouped the good stuff and left out the Rubish. Madam Blavatsky, who founded the movement was a Fraud as well.

Have Fun

[Guest paul walter]

-I've recently become interested in an author named C.W. Leadbeater and his works on dreamwork, philosophy, and the esoteric.

 

-I was wondering if anyone here has recovered any gems from his work or even studied Theosophy: based on what little i've read it does have some concepts in common with Taoism and would like anyone else's opinion who is well read on the topic as well as his books.

 

-Thanks

 

 

His works are in common with every "ism"--Theosophy is the Walmart of the spiritual, meaning most of it is made in China and India and is mostly for western consumption.

[3L3VAT3]

yea i don't know about Theosophy but Steiner's Antroposophy seems pretty cool...

i read Steiners biography...

 

check out an article called "advent of ahriman" that's on the web that talks about a lot of intersting things.

 

I especially liked the idea of 'luciferic' and 'ahrimanic' energies (which are opposite to each other, and in of themselves "evil" but in the total picture they force man to evolve).

[metal dog]

The whole Theosophy "thing" can get to be quite a sordid affair when it comes to looking at the personal lives, motives and ambitions of those who were involved in it.

 

If you disregard this and cherry pick through their works, you may find some things worth consideration.

 

Steiner's complete works can be accessed on the web, so you really don't need to buy anything to access his work. Some of his work is genius, but not necessarily Theosophic as he distanced himself from this group and still was influenced by his Christian beliefs. Some believe he was a bit too dogmatic in some of his pronouncements. I would not classify his work as Theosophy...although he was involved with them at some point.

 

I have been told by others who were far more learned than I in Theosophy that to just read the works of Blavatsky herself is sufficient. That no one after her death was really writing or promoting anything that was to be considered real Theosophy. As they did not have the access to the channel source or bastardized the work for their own aggrandizement. Bailey was basically not reliable and not ethical.

 

Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine 1,2 and the interesting Volume 3 are not easy to comprehend. And it was even stated that there is much in there that is not to be fully understood, but Blavatsky did her best to make it known to the reader what it was that she was channeling.

 

After reading her work, take what is useful to you.

 

From there it is interesting to meander into the works of Samael Aun Weor and his brand of Gnostic Christianity. And then into Crowley.

 

Sifu Terry Dunn has made some interesting comments about Crowley and the Western Magickal Tradition and its relationship with Taoism and the east...in the Flying Phoenix Chi Gong thread on this forum.

[Birch]

"comments about Crowley and the Western Magickal Tradition and its relationship with Taoism and the east...in the Flying Phoenix Chi Gong thread on this forum."

 

Cool! I will go check it out.

 

At least when I read the Crowley stuff online it did include what sounded like Taoist practices (but also Bahkti yoga, Hatha yoga and lots of other things).

[metal dog]

I have had people tell me that Crowley was a true genius who allowed a "shadow" reputation of ill repute to be spread about him to keep many at a distance and the profane from understanding his work. That he would actually load his work with dubious claims and malevolence to confuse people from the real wisdom he was providing.

 

And I have had people tell me that Crowley was a genius, a deviant and a psychopath...and that is who he really was.

[Eric23]

I am reading Mystical Qabalah by Dion Fortune right now. What she is teaching is the Tree of Life as understood by the "Western Tradition." It's tough reading even though the reviews claimed otherwise. Crowley worked with these teachings, but his lifestyle was out there to say the least. His student, Isreal Regardie has written several books on the subject that are considered to be more accessable. Mr Regardie left Crowley and the Golden Dawn because of the strange behavior. What lead me to read more on this subject was a book by Eric Yudelove, a member of this forum, called The Tao and the Tree of Life in which he compares and correlates the two traditions.

 

The tree of life has been around for a long, long time and is worth studying IMO.

[Vajrahridaya]

I have had people tell me that Crowley was a true genius who allowed a "shadow" reputation of ill repute to be spread about him to keep many at a distance and the profane from understanding his work. That he would actually load his work with dubious claims and malevolence to confuse people from the real wisdom he was providing.

 

And I have had people tell me that Crowley was a genius, a deviant and a psychopath...and that is who he really was.

 

I've taken initiation into his Thelema group and found it very rare to find a genuinely spiritually interested person of the more higher order in his groups both in Berkley CA. and in NYC. They seemed mostly interested in psychic powers and personal bravado and power, and being on the fringe merging the sacred and profane in a kind of sloppy way. Sorry if this opinion of mine doesn't fit with everyone's experience. But, the orgies were cool!

 

But!! From readings of Crowley's writings... it does seem that he himself was tapping into something quite profound!

Edited August 30, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Martial Development]

Theosophy is the Walmart of the spiritual, meaning most of it is made in China and India and is mostly for western consumption.

 

[Taomeow]

Madam Blavatsky, who founded the movement was a Fraud as well.

 

No, she was not. She was an encyclopedically educated and spectacularly talented researcher of the occult who wrote copiously on the subject and acquired "disciples" as an outcome. "Fraud" presupposes falsehood, doesn't it? Madame Blavatsky had a worldview one may disagree with (I for one do) but she never falsified her sources, evidence, or credentials. So maybe you want to call her something else -- how about "someone I haven't read but heard bad things about?"

[metal dog]

The tree of life has been around for a long, long time and is worth studying IMO

 

From what I understand the tree of life was a symbol of worship closely related to the worship of the earth and the sacred feminine long before the worship of anthropomorphic gods in Sumer. The earliest of gods which basically evolved into the pantheons and figures of later religions. And most later religions becoming overly solar- and phallo-centric as in those that dominate by number of adherents today. Buddhism seems to be one religion that still contains some of those earlier feminine influences when compared to the big three of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

 

But even before the tree was a symbol or system of worship. the worship of the forces, particularly the animating force, and ancestor worship probably to make sense out of death. The animating forces of the animals. Later, totemism. These forces were later "humanized" with human qualities and personalities. Leading up to the grand poobah current CEO of them all...Adonai-YAhweh-Jehova...or whatever title one wishes to give to the god with the unpronounceable name.

 

I think those relating with their internal energy in its many aspects are returning to and tapping into..."The Beginning". Relating to forces, nature the animals through the Taoist arts goes beyond religion.

 

I have had to drop all considerations of anthropomorphic gods for some time now. It was clouding my thinking and judgment. And so many of them have qualities and remind me of people I don't necessarily like.

 

I highly suspect that the god of the Old Testament is a fusion of two, maybe even three, different gods mixed together to form the god of the Jews.

 

Which is why you can have one god with such a distinction between being the all-loving and all-forgiving creator v.s. one that would be a jealous god or smote a whole city or have sinners put to death.

 

There is a Gnostic belief that creation was done by a group of angels who had a chief...which may also be the God of the Jews...

Yaldabaoth...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge

Edited August 31, 2010 by metal dog

[Eric23]

From what I understand the tree of life was a symbol of worship closely related to the worship of the earth and the sacred feminine long before the worship of anthropomorphic gods in Sumer. The earliest of gods which basically evolved into the pantheons and figures of later religions. And most later religions becoming overly solar- and phallo-centric as in those that dominate by number of adherents today. Buddhism seems to be one religion that still contains some of those earlier feminine influences when compared to the big three of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

 

But even before the tree was a symbol or system of worship. the worship of the forces, particularly the animating force, and ancestor worship probably to make sense out of death. The animating forces of the animals. Later, totemism. These forces were later "humanized" with human qualities and personalities. Leading up to the grand poobah current CEO of them all...Adonai-YAhweh-Jehova...or whatever title one wishes to give to the god with the unpronounceable name.

 

From what I am understanding of the Judaic Qabalah as I read Fortune and Yudelove is that there is room for the feminine in their systems. The tree of life is organized into three pillars one of which is feminine. What we read in the canon of the Old and New Testaments is an edited version of available scriptures. The more I am exposed to this, the more I realize that there is much, much more going on that was not made available to the masses, for whatever reason. The Gnositic books hint that the early Christians understood the blending of male and female energies. It is entirely plausible that Jesus studied the Qabalah. You are correct in that the basic tree of life is a model upon which many systems are built around (the premise of Yudelove's book).

[Jedi777]

As far as I know, he was a paedophile, he molested Krishnamurti, and all his writing Ideas he 'stole' from his student Annie Bessant.

Along time ago I was friends with some of the senior life Members of the Theosophical society. Both who had personally know all three i just mentioned. The stories did not sound good...

I do think there is some good stuff in that realm though... Have you read - How to know higher worlds, by Rudolph Steiner? Thats a great book IMO. Anthroposophy grew out of theosophy and IMO develouped the good stuff and left out the Rubish. Madam Blavatsky, who founded the movement was a Fraud as well.

Have Fun

none of the stuff said about Leadbeater is provable and Krishnamurti never said he did those things.

If a person can see and feel energy they would know that M Blavatsky was not a fraud..

Edited August 31, 2010 by Jedi777

[vsaluki]

Theosophy seems to have moved the reverse direction of most religions. It was started by a complete fraud in Blavatsky and it ended with a fair amount of wisdom in Krishnamurti.

 

But to tell the truth, I don't think that Krishnamurti retained much if any of Blavatsky's ideas. And I'm not sure that he would have consider himself a Theosophist in the later part of his life.

[Guest paul walter]

Theosophy seems to have moved the reverse direction of most religions. It was started by a complete fraud in Blavatsky and it ended with a fair amount of wisdom in Krishnamurti.

 

But to tell the truth, I don't think that Krishnamurti retained much if any of Blavatsky's ideas. And I'm not sure that he would have consider himself a Theosophist in the later part of his life.

 

 

Well he tried to disband the whole circus around him and the 'followers' went ape-shit. Typical wealthy type behaviour--losing control of what they've told us is so true because they created it (they claimed him as the World Teacher in this case--BAD students!!, got their roles confused! ). If you read U.G. Krishnamurti (who used to 'follow' Jiddu) he calls Jiddu "the twentieth century's greatest phony"--not far off the truth

[vsaluki]

If you read U.G. Krishnamurti (who used to 'follow' Jiddu) he calls Jiddu "the twentieth century's greatest phony"--not far off the truth

 

I've read U.G. A little too much ego for my taste.

[Guest paul walter]

I've read U.G. A little too much ego for my taste.

Yes, know what you mean. The egoless state mirrors the ego state in many ways--both have complete surity of outlook, one from ignorance and a completist creation of the worldview from a very small and defensive outlook and the other from 'total' self-awareness.

[RiverSnake]

Thanks for the input everyone. It would appear that C.W. had a questionable character.

[vsaluki]

The egoless state mirrors the ego state in many ways

 

I don't see the same behaviour or attitude in someone like Ramana Maharishi as I do in U.G.

[Guest paul walter]

I don't see the same behaviour or attitude in someone like Ramana Maharishi as I do in U.G.

 

 

 

I'd suggest someone like him is 'insulated' in some way by his tradition and support and has no need to "fend for himself" like U.G.--not any worse or better, just a slightly different relation to 'survival'. You'd be surprised what some of these loving enlightened ones would say if pushed for the truth of what they see in the world--you'd hate them and nail them up? Paul

[Seth Ananda]

No, she was not. She was an encyclopedically educated and spectacularly talented researcher of the occult who wrote copiously on the subject and acquired "disciples" as an outcome. "Fraud" presupposes falsehood, doesn't it? Madame Blavatsky had a worldview one may disagree with (I for one do) but she never falsified her sources, evidence, or credentials. So maybe you want to call her something else -- how about "someone I haven't read but heard bad things about?"

I am sorry to Disagree as I Love your posts and perspective's,

But Yes she was.

Her House (where ever that is, I haven't been there but know people who have) is basicly a Museum these days. You Can still see the double sided safe there where she would open it to her Audience to show it was empty, then close it, Call on KhootHumi or st Germain or who-ever while one of her students on the other side would slip in the papers she had written, then She would open it and 'Tada!' a new revelation from the Ascended Masters! Her house had various other secret compartments for faking 'Signs' from the Spiritual side.

Most Theosophical Society members who have been around a while, seem to agree that the evidence is a bit too convincing to discount... Some say she was Genuine and just using Coyote Shaman trickery to Get the Movement off the ground. Others Say She was Being Clever because no one back then would Take a woman as an Authority on anything...

I am certainly willing to consider either of these possibilities... But she was engaging in Fraudulent activities...

I think the Safe's back door was originally revealed by the disgruntled conspirator she had talked into helping her hoodwink people.

 

I totally think she was a fascinating Character, up there with the likes of Gurdjief for Strange and Mysterious and possibly Nefarious Backgrounds.

Have fun

Seth