Correct breathing for the Five Tibetan Rites

[Non]

This is regarding specifically rites number 3 and 4. Could the correct breathing sequence for 3 and 4 be breathe out as you tilt the head back and breathe in as you tuck in the chin?

 

I thought about this today... It makes some sense as in rites number 2 and 5 it's like that, and I remember in the original books about the five Tibetan rites it never mentioned breathing patterns, so what followed from there about the breathing are just numerous interpretations by different authors as to how to breathe.

 

Now I know that it would also make sense to breathe in with the beginning motion, and breathe out with the end motion, but I'm specifically talking with regards to the head motion. Tilting the head backward prevents the chi from going into the head (my sifu says this) and tucking the chin helps make the chi flow down from the head through the tongue touching the upper palate.

[Non]

This is regarding specifically rites number 3 and 4. Could the correct breathing sequence for 3 and 4 be breathe out as you tilt the head back and breathe in as you tuck in the chin?

 

I thought about this today... It makes some sense as in rites number 2 and 5 it's like that, and I remember in the original books about the five Tibetan rites it never mentioned breathing patterns, so what followed from there about the breathing are just numerous interpretations by different authors as to how to breathe.

 

Now I know that it would also make sense to breathe in with the beginning motion, and breathe out with the end motion, but I'm specifically talking with regards to the head motion. Tilting the head backward prevents the chi from going into the head (my sifu says this) and tucking the chin helps make the chi flow down from the head through the tongue touching the upper palate.

 

well I tried it out. And I have to say that I did feel different. Starting the 3rd and 4rth rites with an inbreath instead of an outbreath when the chin is tucked in. It feels calmer and it balanced me right away emotionally. After not having enough sleep I felt calm energy.

 

Maybe it's just placebo. I have done the T5T with "normally prescribed" breathing but I don't think I've felt as balanced as I've felt with this one.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Non

[Non]

but also maybe if I look at the Ten Tibetan Breaths it might also give me clues?

 

Yea actually I just read about them, and the traditionally prescribed way matchs the 10 tibetan breaths as well so dnno.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Non

[betwixter]

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Edited September 12, 2010 by betwixter

[Non]

Check out the Jalandhara Bandha...that might give you some insight on how you should breath during this rite. This particular lock is similar to, if I remember correctly, tibetan #3. Now the purpose of this Bandha or lock, is to loosen any energy that is blocked in the upper torso and neck; although, unlike what you described, you should have already breathed in before you perform the lock and not when you are in the process of. I, like you are now, have tried to decipher the most effective way to perform these movements, but never could get all that much out of them. Also, try some gentle retention...some of the movements seem appropriate for it. Good luck.

 

So you're saying that the breath for rite number 3 should be done the traditional way?

 

I just find it kind of odd that when it was brought to the west we got no specific braething instructions from Peter Kelder, and nobody else has written about them direct from the guidance of the tibetan people who practice the exercise.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Non

[betwixter]

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Edited September 12, 2010 by betwixter

[goonis38]

Hi

Isn't amazing how important breathing is... I mean people take it for granted like blinking your eyes or what have you.

 

I find myself holding my breath all time, which I know helps in causing me to have more stress in my life, and no telling what else. I just find it funny how the little things we take for granted are so important...

 

I'm so glad I found this forum, I have to admit. I feel like I am way behind on my learning. But it's a start. I will try and remember to breath! And look into some of these books.

Melanie

[betwixter]

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Edited September 12, 2010 by betwixter

[Guest sykkelpump]

Hi

Isn't amazing how important breathing is... I mean people take it for granted like blinking your eyes or what have you.

 

I find myself holding my breath all time, which I know helps in causing me to have more stress in my life, and no telling what else. I just find it funny how the little things we take for granted are so important...

 

I'm so glad I found this forum, I have to admit. I feel like I am way behind on my learning. But it's a start. I will try and remember to breath! And look into some of these books.

Melanie

 

Hello,if you are new and feel behind.This is a good start.Actually it is all you ever need to know.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25864564/The-Anapanasati-Sutta-A-Practical-Guide-to-Mindfulness-of-Breathing-Bhante-Vimalaramsi

[Non]

Sorry about being dilatory in my response...no excuse, just got lazy. Although, your post did rekindle a bit of interest that I did have in trying to 'decipher' the 'ole 5 Tibetans, as I always thought there had to be something to them, or hoped, because of Kelder's tantalizing background story describing their discovery. Anyway, it motivated me to dust off my Chris Kilham book and get to some code breaking. After re-introducing myself to all the exercises again, I had a slight epiphany (my epiphanies are on a small scale) that makes me think, even if not necessarily the 'secret' that originally resided with them, that one could perform all the movements (except for 1...I guess you could use the locks on the '6th' one) with all 3 breath/body locks while in the part of the movement that is conducive to them. It seemed to makes sense as all the movements, except for 1, have the chin tuck aspect to them which is indicative of an attempt to relieve blocked energy moving through the upper torso. Also, the exercises definitely seem to be of the fire sort, meaning to 'forcefully' move energy up the spine, because of all the back bends; so the bhandas would appear to be an appropriate companion. I have never seen or heard of the locks being done while moving, so one probably want to execute the exercises pretty slowly; but I bet that doing them in this manner would bring about much of the highly touted benefits that the dramatic prose seems to imply. Don't go by the pictures in the books if doing it as I advised, with the neck really cranked down, as the chin lock doesn't look like this if done correctly (you're actually pulling the chin in), but just google them (bhandas or body locks) and you can get the hang of it pretty quick...as the other 2 locks are just the diaphragmatic lock and root (the brown eye and perineum lock). At the least, I believe even just doing the chin lock would be of greater benefit. Shit, maybe I'll take another run at them. Hoo-ra.

 

Well I've never seen any tutorial of the rites include anything about the other 2 locks (ie diaphragmatic and mulah bandha/root lock). Though I would imagine in rite numbers 3 4 and 5 you can use the diaphragmatic breathing breathing in if you do it the 'normal' breathing way.

 

One person told me he does the breathing in the 4rth rite reversed for reasons that he found it was more "beneficial", and he believes is the "right" way.

 

Mulah bandha, I'm not sure where I can incorporate that except for probably number 6.

 

As for the chin lock, I haven't read anything having to do with breathing patterns and in the chin lock but maybe I have to do more research on that, and find yogic poses that use it in specific a breath in or out exclusively.

[betwixter]

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Edited September 12, 2010 by betwixter

[mjjbecker]

The question to be asked is, did those who got remarkable results follow a particular breathing method, or did they just breathe naturally?

 

Not every practice requires specific breathing practices; some say you should only breathe naturally and not think about the breathing at all.

[Non]

The question to be asked is, did those who got remarkable results follow a particular breathing method, or did they just breathe naturally?

 

Not every practice requires specific breathing practices; some say you should only breathe naturally and not think about the breathing at all.

 

Yes but breathing can facilitate things. One can learn to not rely on breath for movement of energy or taking in/pushing out energy. The point is, during all the movements of T5T there are certain energetic movements they are supposed to facilitate. What does each and every move do? Can you say that for every qigong that's out there you know what each and every movement, breath, mindstate, look, etc. is supposed to do? How exactly it's supposed to facilitate the energy's (and type of) movement? Not really. But all that's important and it might have been lost, because all these methods have been either covered up, or hidden from the rest of society for some grand reason that all we get are incomplete exercises that we must decipher on our own. Many of the results from people might even be self created, or co-created.

 

If we are doing any energetic exercise we must know what is the purpose of each exercise down to it's finer details, otherwise it's just empty movement and physical exercise. If that's the case then just don't do any exercise at all and just do it all in sitting meditation. If you have mastered the body, and are master you can probably do it without the body becoming sedentary...

 

edit: Of course not every detail is known, since much of these exercises have been developed on intuition alone. Many with primitive understanding.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Non

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[devoid]

The Tibetian Rites having their movements from the center in the waist.

The movement will generate the breathing itself.

 

I never thought of it this way before - how very true - thanks for posting this clarifying follow-up!

[Sunya]

Just get the Yantra Yoga book and stop messing around it's very specific and detailed.

[Non]

Just get the Yantra Yoga book and stop messing around it's very specific and detailed.

 

You never said the author. Namkhai Norbu?

[Sunya]

You never said the author. Namkhai Norbu?

 

Yep That's it. The book describes the practices in much detail including proper breathing. The 5 Tibetan rites come from Yantra Yoga which is an Indian Yoga system originating from the 8th century. Though very similiar to Hatha Yoga, it's much older. Hatha originates from 15th century.

 

It's probably best to learn this stuff in person but oh well.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Sunya

[Non]

Was it really from Yantra Yoga, or Kum Nye? Some sources say Kum Nye, others Yantra Yoga.

[Non]

How exactly am I supposed to learn from the yantra yoga book about the five tibetan exercises? Are each of the exercises contained in the book, or are you really meaning to say that I should follow the principles laid out in the book?

[Non]

The Tibetian Rites having their movements from the center in the waist.

The movement will generate the breathing itself.

 

Enough for yet,

Q

 

When I did it this way, the only exercise in which the breathing reversed was the fourth rite. All the rest was pretty much the same as most people do it.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Non

[Non]

Well yesterday I had an experience.

 

I did 21 of the five.

Though I did the third rite twice, once with 'normal' breathing, the other one with reversed breathing (not daoist reverse breathing), and I have to say, the reversed breathing made me feel this really calm blissful feeling of energy, go up to head. it cleared my head and made me feel calm yet energized.

 

Then I tried doing the same for the fourth but.. well.. it seems my body tells me when to stop doing more than I'm supposed to on 21. If you do more in one shot then I think you can mess up the energetic system. I guess my body knows this naturally. So in that case, I figured.. maybe what's important is postures rather than breathing during specific movements. I mean I'm sure there's an optimal way. I always do this one with reversed breathing (again not same as daoist reverse breathing) because it feels better to me.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Non]

I finally got to reading the book Yantra Yoga.. not the whole thing of course, just started. There's no mention of the rites at all.

 

My guess is that either it's a mix of kum nye which came before yantra and yantra yoga... or it's from another tradition of yantra yoga that's not written in the book, as the book has only the Union of the Sun and Moon yoga.

 

Nevertheless there are some moves that are similar to the rites, except for the first one. I'm guessing I'm supposed to use the principles learned herein. I also bought "Your Hands Can Heal You" by Stephen Co for some tips on the rites included, so I'm waiting for that one to come in.

 

perhaps the rites were just made up, after the author of the original book went to Tibet and learned yantra yoga, and made his own very simplified version of yantra or something that mixes some of the basic movements in yantra yoga.

 

And, after reading parts of yantra yoga... it seems that the rites performed in the regular traditional breathing method are what is taught in the book (at least with the exercises similar to them)... even though reversing the breath gives me more of an effect.