.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Pea-Tartier's rock!!

Edited September 2, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Encephalon]

Well Obama is just a way for Arnold Schwarzenegger(whos dad was a nazi) to become President(they couldnt make arnold the president right off the bat so they gave him the biggest state). What hitler had that our government didnt have until recently was a minority in office that they can blame stuff on. Now they do. Obama's whole role is to be indecisive and to have issues with his birth certificate while things continue to get worse. Then arnold( this paves the way for Schwarzenegger) will come along and with the help of the nwo seem to fix everything. Then he will blame obama and african americans in general for the decline in america. Once you understand this then you will see the real plot behind hiphop and even the leaders in that industry are working with the nwo for this agenda.

 

like i said,

 

"Vanity driven agenda, drunkenness of the heart, backed by self justification lead by unnatural intuition."

 

I wasnt speaking out of my ass when i said that i was referring to something specific.

 

Gosh golly whizzacres... in a firefight, I think I'd rather have Joeblast on my side than a New Age conspiratorialist, but hey, we're all on our own learning curve, eh?

[electric gravity]

blasto,

 

Buddy i wouldnt want you in my foxhole lets get that straight you seem like the type that would get distracted by the pretty light show of the bullets going by and get your head blown off.

[joeblast]

SoDE - please, it was a clinical usage, quoted from the whacko who wrote it. You cannot simply chisel away some stone and wish a word to disappear. History it was it is, I was not using the word as a spear tip or even the lettering on the side of the arrow, for that matter. That some amorphous political correctness dictates outcomes down to such subtlety is a preposterous notion, we're not puritanical here.

 

I dont know where the hell you guys are getting "the tea party is racist" other than from the puffington host. You fewls got anything other than hearsay to go on? kthxnowgtfowiththatshit.

 

 

Of course Obama isnt quite fitting the definitions of a pure Socialist, Marxist, what have you - but he has no qualms about using methods derived from those philosophies to pay back the interests that shuffled him into the presidency - remember Andy Stern demanding some payback since the SEIU spent $66 million to get him elected!?

 

"What seems to go unaddressed by your side of the aisle is the upwardly redistributive nature of corporate capitalism in the first place."

 

What seems to go completely unnoticed by your side of the aisle is that there is a difference between the creation of wealth and the redistribution of such. You can make poor men richer by letting a rich man get richer, but you cannot make poor men richer by making the rich man poor, in case that logic somehow fails you.

 

You also completely forget that government tinkering is far more of a cause of middle class suffering than anything else - after all, when taxes are raised, its the richer amongst us who are more able to move funds around so as to minimize the penalty for doing business, whereas the middle class are basically f*ked because their limited mobility of funds and paycheck to paycheck living negates those opportunities that the richer have - so there you have it, the middle class are the most de-pressed by the majority of these things. God forbid one tries to open his own business, combine that with overburdensome regulation and your startup costs just skyrocket...

 

The middle class was also the biggest recipient of f*kn with cash for clunkers, too - so the affable that were already going to buy had a little more incentive to do so at a particularly politically convenient time for some party, and the rest were forced to pay 3 billion for it all, and at the same time take a whole lot of used cars out of the market - the net result is that used cars are average 10% more expensive this year, and parts have become more expensive too...you not only removed time and money from the system, you have removed future potential growth all so the gub can give the appearance of "helping people out." Which is a crock.

 

 

And its all this "helping people out" that is getting out of control. The notion that one may simply throw money at a problem and it gets magically cleaned up is preposterous - the notion that one may institute a government program and toss money at it to solve the problem is inviting disaster, especially at a time when fiscal issues are straining the books as it is.

 

Financial indicators were worse in 1920 than they were in 1930 - and two opposite solutions were utilized. In 1920, we basically chopped the government in half, and got the roaring 20s as a result. In the 30s, we got FDR and the new deal, and wallowed in government programs for 10 years before clawing our way out of it, and we're STILL saddled with handouts from it.

 

You cant fix a debt problem without examining outlays. Its pretty simple. But somehow yall are getting "racism" out of it? Preposterous. Its the Chewbacca defense!

 

I mean, when you see this happen, how hard is it not to jump and say "you moron! what were you thinking?!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azXcaxjFgF8

 

and I guess the distinction can be made, none of it is inherently "right" or "wrong" but...there are efficacious ways and there are cumbersome ways to get this or that done, its a matter of priorities...and we're seeing how priorities are playing out in the gov - now how about we all each notice where our priorities are, where we say they are vs where our actions point. When that disconnect happens and nobody questions the discrepancy, whether through blind idealism or sheer apathy, we all lose as a result.

 

that's what I'm saying - and really, if you listened to Beck and understood what it was he was trying to say - that last paragraph would pretty much sum it up.

Edited August 31, 2010 by joeblast

[Encephalon]

SoDE - please, it was a clinical usage, quoted from the whacko who wrote it. You cannot simply chisel away some stone and wish a word to disappear. History it was it is, I was not using the word as a spear tip or even the lettering on the side of the arrow, for that matter. That some amorphous political correctness dictates outcomes down to such subtlety is a preposterous notion, we're not puritanical here.

 

I dont know where the hell you guys are getting "the tea party is racist" other than from the puffington host. You fewls got anything other than hearsay to go on? kthxnowgtfowiththatshit.

 

 

Of course Obama isnt quite fitting the definitions of a pure Socialist, Marxist, what have you - but he has no qualms about using methods derived from those philosophies to pay back the interests that shuffled him into the presidency - remember Andy Stern demanding some payback since the SEIU spent $66 million to get him elected!?

 

"What seems to go unaddressed by your side of the aisle is the upwardly redistributive nature of corporate capitalism in the first place."

 

What seems to go completely unnoticed by your side of the aisle is that there is a difference between the creation of wealth and the redistribution of such. You can make poor men richer by letting a rich man get richer, but you cannot make poor men richer by making the rich man poor, in case that logic somehow fails you.

 

You also completely forget that government tinkering is far more of a cause of middle class suffering than anything else - after all, when taxes are raised, its the richer amongst us who are more able to move funds around so as to minimize the penalty for doing business, whereas the middle class are basically f*ked because their limited mobility of funds and paycheck to paycheck living negates those opportunities that the richer have - so there you have it, the middle class are the most de-pressed by the majority of these things. God forbid one tries to open his own business, combine that with overburdensome regulation and your startup costs just skyrocket...

 

The middle class was also the biggest recipient of f*kn with cash for clunkers, too - so the affable that were already going to buy had a little more incentive to do so at a particularly politically convenient time for some party, and the rest were forced to pay 3 billion for it all, and at the same time take a whole lot of used cars out of the market - the net result is that used cars are average 10% more expensive this year, and parts have become more expensive too...you not only removed time and money from the system, you have removed future potential growth all so the gub can give the appearance of "helping people out." Which is a crock.

 

 

And its all this "helping people out" that is getting out of control. The notion that one may simply throw money at a problem and it gets magically cleaned up is preposterous - the notion that one may institute a government program and toss money at it to solve the problem is inviting disaster, especially at a time when fiscal issues are straining the books as it is.

 

Financial indicators were worse in 1920 than they were in 1930 - and two opposite solutions were utilized. In 1920, we basically chopped the government in half, and got the roaring 20s as a result. In the 30s, we got FDR and the new deal, and wallowed in government programs for 10 years before clawing our way out of it, and we're STILL saddled with handouts from it.

 

You cant fix a debt problem without examining outlays. Its pretty simple. But somehow yall are getting "racism" out of it? Preposterous. Its the Chewbacca defense!

 

I mean, when you see this happen, how hard is it not to jump and say "you moron! what were you thinking?!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azXcaxjFgF8

 

and I guess the distinction can be made, none of it is inherently "right" or "wrong" but...there are efficacious ways and there are cumbersome ways to get this or that done, its a matter of priorities...and we're seeing how priorities are playing out in the gov - now how about we all each notice where our priorities are, where we say they are vs where our actions point. When that disconnect happens and nobody questions the discrepancy, whether through blind idealism or sheer apathy, we all lose as a result.

 

that's what I'm saying - and really, if you listened to Beck and understood what it was he was trying to say - that last paragraph would pretty much sum it up.

 

Well, my friend, it looks like we're back where we started. My side and yours can't even agree on the dynamics of the 1920s and 30s so we might as well bury the hatchet.

 

I've calculated that I could get another 90 minutes a day of nei kung practice if I simply say goodbye to TTB, which I have tried to do every few months or so, but there's something about this forum that serves an important need. Even in LA, I still have to drive 40 minutes into Santa Monica or Koreatown to find facetime Taoist/Buddhist comraderie. TTB also seems to serve a need for aspiring writers to hone their chops first thing in the morning, sort of like "The Morning Pages" exercise.

 

I'm attempting to create two more Canadians and two less Americans, so I guess that'll make some folks happy. No offense, EG, but your metaphysical musings kinda sounded like a light show, and I'm still reeling from a bout of semi-lethal superstition. Please forgive my prejudicial tone. O vwar!

Edited August 31, 2010 by Blasto

[joeblast]

you cant see that Wilson and FDR were cancerous to the nation, therefore nevermind the rest I cant personally follow the logic, but good luck in your neikung practice

[gendao]

One break coming up. How about... you're f'n clueless? The corporate and right-wing bankrolling of the Tea Party movement, with no small help from Fox News, is one of the biggest stories out there right now. Who would've thought, since the same dynamic is so readily observable in the early days of the Third Reich. And you're still bogged down trying to see these events through the "liberal vs. conservative" lens. If you had any inkling of the genesis of your own ideas you would realize that criticism leveled at conservatives doesn't automatically translate to liberal sympathies. Kunstler may appear "liberal" but he's quite a libertine and rarely delivers nice messages to the Big Libs.

Did you even read those articles? Or just the headlines?

 

My whole point was that Big Lib blew it up into a huge "story," yet it actually contains no smoking gun. Or pray tell, how much cash or direct influence has Koch actually had on the Tea Party??? What are the actual numbers behind this Geraldo-style "bankrolling" claim???

I'm attempting to create two more Canadians and two less Americans, so I guess that'll make some folks happy. No offense, EG, but your metaphysical musings kinda sounded like a light show, and I'm still reeling from a bout of semi-lethal superstition. Please forgive my prejudicial tone. O vwar!

Typical liberal. Eff up California with a few decades of unbridled liberalism and then White Flight the hell outta dodge before it becomes a total 3rd World bankrupt slum. And then continue your rants for welfare and diversity double-standards from your ivory tower up in the Great White North, lmao! Gee what's wrong with California anymore - liberal mecca welfare state with Pelosicare on the way? Yet, I've been noticing this steady migration out of there by affluent liberals a lot recently - only to infect and screw other places up by pushing the same self-destructive policies that destroyed the place they just left! Actions always speak louder than words... And with many sanctimonious liberals, they are often the opposite. Edited August 31, 2010 by vortex

[ralis]

 

You cant fix a debt problem without examining outlays.

 

 

 

 

I believe the defense budget along with two illegal wars are the largest expenditures. The Pentagon budget needs to be cut along with eliminating most of the bases the U.S. maintains.

 

 

ralis

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Is "assholiness" a real word?

 

 

Taobums sucks now. Too much ragingly right wing 'tudes. Ugh. Country's finished anyway, we'll never be able to solve our problems with people like this.

Edited August 31, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[ralis]

Is "assholiness" a real word?

 

 

Taobums sucks now. Too much ragingly right wing 'tudes. Ugh. Country's finished anyway, we'll never be able to solve our problems with people like this.

 

Unfortunately, I have to agree. In am curious if the right wing shills posting here realize the imminent Orwellian world they are helping to create.

 

 

ralis

[joeblast]

I believe the defense budget along with two illegal wars are the largest expenditures. The Pentagon budget needs to be cut along with eliminating most of the bases the U.S. maintains.

 

 

ralis

I dont disagree about the scope of cuts that need to be made! Too bad the data doesnt reflect your verbiage though - the stimulus cost more than the Iraq war, for when you get around to objectively holding these things up next to one another...who knows wtf will happen with Afghanistan, but Iraq is going to come out of this a thousand times the better. Ends dont justify means, but looking at the facts, unstimulating stimulus/political gifting vs questionably initiated nation building...where's history going to say the money was better spent?

 

you're funny sode...a couple differing opinions and the whole place is sodded? We've always had differing opinions here, and we all still get along despite. I dont think lefty giveaway solutions that stifle business are really the way to go, but its not like this is the main topic of conversations here. In fact, I kinda like that its not, because people open up their mouths, other people get all uppity because someone said something they disagreed with, and...what makes that any different than the rest of the garbage out there?

 

Now wait a sec ralis...you're speaking of an imminent Orwellian world - refresh my memory on what your position on Obamacare was? Because that is Orwellian in its direction, far worse than...whatever it is you fear the neocons are doing.

 

that's the problem with painting a disagreement with such broad strokes of the brush - because what most of us want is quite the opposite of Orwellian.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Vortex rocks! JoeBlast rocks!

Edited September 2, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Martial Development]

I wish the second page of this thread had been as genuinely entertaining as the first.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I wish the second page of this thread had been as genuinely entertaining as the first.

 

 

 

 

_/\_ .

[Aetherous]

Gosh golly whizzacres... in a firefight, I think I'd rather have Joeblast on my side than a New Age conspiratorialist, but hey, we're all on our own learning curve, eh?

 

Buddy i wouldnt want you in my foxhole lets get that straight you seem like the type that would get distracted by the pretty light show of the bullets going by and get your head blown off.

 

Out of this whole topic, this part was the most disappointing.

 

Now for something positive:

 

[Aetherous]

Songs, I really like the horse picture. Bravo!

[ralis]

I dont disagree about the scope of cuts that need to be made! Too bad the data doesnt reflect your verbiage though - the stimulus cost more than the Iraq war, for when you get around to objectively holding these things up next to one another...who knows wtf will happen with Afghanistan, but Iraq is going to come out of this a thousand times the better. Ends dont justify means, but looking at the facts, unstimulating stimulus/political gifting vs questionably initiated nation building...where's history going to say the money was better spent?

 

you're funny sode...a couple differing opinions and the whole place is sodded? We've always had differing opinions here, and we all still get along despite. I dont think lefty giveaway solutions that stifle business are really the way to go, but its not like this is the main topic of conversations here. In fact, I kinda like that its not, because people open up their mouths, other people get all uppity because someone said something they disagreed with, and...what makes that any different than the rest of the garbage out there?

 

Now wait a sec ralis...you're speaking of an imminent Orwellian world - refresh my memory on what your position on Obamacare was? Because that is Orwellian in its direction, far worse than...whatever it is you fear the neocons are doing.

 

that's the problem with painting a disagreement with such broad strokes of the brush - because what most of us want is quite the opposite of Orwellian.

 

 

Read Orwell (1984) and then we can discuss it.

 

ralis

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Drink tea! it's good for America!!

Edited September 2, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[VCraigP]

Lol maybe some liberals might try reading past the big headlines?

 

Seriously, is this even news? All smoke, but no fire?

 

This is ridiculous propaganda. There's not even a "smoking gun" here. All I see is how some rich dude donates to the arts, conservative causes, Libertarians and has supported (unspecific in what way) the Tea Party too. And what's so wrong about that, anyways? That's exactly what liberal moguls do with liberal causes. Doesn't even say how much money he's actually given to the Tea Party, either...despite the headline screaming that he's "bankrolled" them.

 

Gimme a f'n break, muppets. The Tea Party is not even about money & fancy conventions anyways. I think half their events are like casual BYOB tailgaters.

 

The point being that this so called Grass Roots movement is NOT. It is funded by billionaires with an agenda. A point you conveniently danced around with insults and labels.

 

Actually it would be refreshing if there were an actual movement against our corporatist (new word for FASCIST) government. I apply this label to 99% of republicans and at least 90% of democrat elected officials. But the tea party is just another delusion, distraction. Keep the rich getting richer. convince poor and unemployed people that the fault is big government. Billionaires convincing destitute people to lobby against their own economic interest. Taxes are bad, unions are bad, regulations are bad, social security safety net is bad, looking out for the welfare of the citizenry of your country is bad, glah blah. Meanwhile the ridiculously wealthy ask "Let us rape and pillage freely because we have divine right by way of being wealthy", and continue to do so.

 

laughable when the right talks about the left doing the same thing. Liberal moguls donating to liberal causes. Oh yeah, those liberal Moguls are outnumbered 10,000 to 1 by Repugnantcans who carry on convincing deliberately dumbed down populace to vote against their own interest.

 

 

Vortex

dont even bother to reply as I don't know why I have even gone this far.

 

Craig

[gendao]

Vortexes rants against 'the liberals' have been pretty vitriolic and reactive. Ergo, the invocation of the 'assholiness' clause in the general vicinity of those posts.

Exactly, reactive...to someone calling me "f'n clueless."

 

But, I guess I am clueless. Because despite asking repeatedly, still no liberals here can quote from all these articles they've been feverishly pasting exactly how much money Koch has allegedly spent "bankrolling" the Tea Party??? Or how much effort he's spent "masterminding" the entire operation? Yes, I am asking for a clue here - because so far I haven't seen any???

 

Yet instead of simply answering the question (which apparently they can't) - liberals simply resort to childish namecalling.

 

Which pretty much sums up the entire liberal response to the Tea Party. Accuse them of racism (as they themselves make plans to White Flight), getting bankrolled (despite any specific evidence), etc. - anything BUT focus on some of the primary issues they are concerned about - like our country's fiscal and "moral" bankruptcy.

 

This all coming from a party totally puppeteered by shadowy banking cartels themselves! Does that make their followers puppets of puppets?

Anyhow, aren't liberals supposed to welcome and be tolerant of diversity? Does that exclude non-liberal viewpoints, Libertarians or conservatives?

Edited August 31, 2010 by vortex

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Watch more TV! Spend more time on the internet! Text your Congressman every day!

Put flowers in the barrels of soldiers rifles and then blast people away when they lean in to smell them!

 

 

vsaluki rocks!!

Edited September 2, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[metal dog]

Did you people say something?

 

I have lost faith in being externally directed waiting for the world to turn me on.

Edited September 1, 2010 by metal dog

[gendao]

Ha ha, Vortex! The Tea Partiers are NOT grass roots, they are being funded by the Billionaire Koch brothers, who are leading the dumb sheep to vote against their own self-interest and are advancing the corporate agenda of their industries! You really believe it's "grass roots'? Too funny!!

 

 

Sorry to...

...bust yer bubble...

I really don't care how you define yourself. Could you just answer my question please?

 

From your own links:

In April, 2009, Melissa Cohlmia, a company spokesperson, denied that the Kochs had direct links to the Tea Party, saying that Americans for Prosperity is “an independent organization and Koch companies do not in any way direct their activities.” Later, she issued a statement: “No funding has been provided by Koch companies, the Koch foundations, or Charles Koch or David Koch specifically to support the tea parties.” David Koch told New York, “I’ve never been to a tea-party event. No one representing the tea party has ever even approached me.”

Basically, David Koch started a group in 2004 called Americans for Prosperity that has some tangent aims as the more amorphous Tea Party. So what? It's a free country & the Tea Party can't stop others from having similar views. So, how does that qualify the Koch's as "bankrolling the Tea Party?" Especially if there has been no actual direct funding???

 

And this other article is even shoddier:

The New Yorker makes a case that a pair of wealthy brothers is the force behind the Tea Party movement. Here, 5 key assertions from a new article

Yet, none of the 5 "key assertions" include Koch's direct funding of Tea Parties - or anything even much related to that, for that matter...

The family has a complicated relationship with communism

 

they were the key backers of Libertarian Party candidate Ed Clark

 

The Kochs promote global warming skepticism

 

They are 'waging a war against Obama'

 

David Koch has become a top donor to the arts and sciences in recent years, particularly in his home city of New York. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, Lincoln Center, and the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History have all benefited from his largesse.

Everything...but a simple statement that actually supports the headline - classic smoke & mirrors! Sorry, but do you really expect me to swallow this blatant propaganda whole? Edited August 31, 2010 by vortex

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Vortexes rants against 'the liberals' have been pretty vitriolic and reactive. Ergo, the invocation of the 'assholiness' clause in the general vicinity of those posts. You, JB, are at least reasonable and intelligent in your differences. There is a fairly aggressive and challenging right wing slant to numerous posts in the past year, so it's not just a few posts that have me hacked.

 

BTW, it's fairly reactive to label everything as 'lefty giveaway' solutions. A responsible society also takes care of it's own, somehow. I see the abuse of welfare programs rampantly every day in my work, but because something is abused does not mean it should be abolished.

 

Maybe DB was right? Politics is evil?

[joeblast]

Just because Obamacare is so flawed, does that mean that the existing healthcare system should have remained? It seems we needed an overhaul of a bloated and overwhelmingly unsustainable system, yet the P-Tarty folks and Conservatives were obstructionist and opposed anything rather than working toward a solution. So to complain about Obamacare now is absurd. You guys had a great responsibility in creating it by not contributing meaningfully to change.

No, real solutions should have been considered - easily the top 3 money saving things they could have done were left right off the table due to political favoritism. The solution to fiscal health care issues was not to promise more healthcare and more regulations!

 

What's so tough to understand about a bad bill being worse than no bill at all?

 

Amusing, I always was of the impression that Vortex's posts were well thought out and researched. Not to mention being more respectful than your posts where controversial subjects are concerned, SoDE. You cant get someone to correct their profanities by screaming "DONT F*N SWEAR!!!" Such it is with political topics.

 

*reads* Ah, that's why libs hate Koch. He sees co2 scaremongering realistically and has a libertarian view on gov While its a near certainty that some amount of money of his has made it towards furthering tea party interests, to suggest that its a large or significant amount is a stretch. *read more* Complicated relationship with communism??? Why dont you ask that to the Clintons!!!

 

Just like its a stretch to call a real grassroots movement "mainly or entirely funded by corporate interests," its a stretch calling opposition to the ground zero mosque bigotry. That people are willing to show up and protest or give money to a cause they support is fake now since its not coming from a bunch of liberals? Just like protest was "exercising free speech" when it was the Iraq war in question, but protesting a failed congress is called out as traitorous by the hyper partisan speaker? Give me a break with that crap, wake up and smell America and accept that a whole hell of a lot of people are dissatisfied with both parties and want real change, not status quo with a side of lip service.

 

Kids that are raised having everything done for them have an extremely high likelihood of being lazy - such it is with a government that does too much for its citizens.

 

So again, we're getting met with the Chewbacca defense. "ohhhh, you dont even have an argument" is basically what we're being told. Which is stupid, ridiculous, to attempt to solve debate that way. The argument (not to mention economy) is being lost on empirical substance by liberal/progressives - so attempting to detract credibility, disregarding points of argument...that's what conservatives have to argue against these days. Oh, and Bush's presidency too

 

Annoying when substantive points continually get sidestepped, passed by while something of little to no value is seized upon for rebuttal. *shrugs* Anyone up for an honest, two sided debate? Words and actions will say so - if nobody else is willing, no reason for me to be, either.