"After seeing the Solitary..."

[3bob]

"After seeing the Solitary, he could abolish the distinctions of past and present. After abolishing the past and present, he was able to enter there where life and death are no more, where killing does not take away life, nor does giving birth add to it. He was ever in accord with the exigencies of his environment, accepting all and welcoming all, regarding everything as destroyed, and everything as in completion. This is to be 'secure amidst confusion,' reaching security through chaos."

 

"Where did you learn this from?" asked Nanpo Tsekuei. "I learned it from the Son of Ink," replied Nu Yu, "and the Son of Ink learned it from the Grandson of Learning, the Grandson of Learning from Understanding, and Understanding from Insight, Insight learned it from Practice, Practice from Folk Song, and Folk Song from Silence, Silence from the Void, and the Void learned it from the Seeming Beginning."

 

.

[Marblehead]

Well, somewhere in Chuang Tzu there is something very similar to the first paragraph.

 

The word "killing" wasn't used though, he used the word "death".

 

I don't completely accept this as a valid view because of this: ... accepting all and welcoming all ...

 

But I do aknowledge that once we have attained a state of Oneness and wish to remain there you just wouldn't give a shit anymore and everything would be okay. No value judgements.

 

So in my understanding, once one attains Oneness (the Solitary)one returns to the many and continues living his/her life in the best way possible and helping others who might be in need.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

Hi MH,

 

A key point the quote alludes to for me is, "the Void learned it from the Seeming Beginning"... thus an often negatively interpreted or felt connotation related to the "Void" as imagined or projected is refuted if one accepts such sayings of a beyond the Void.

 

Om

Edited September 1, 2010 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Hi MH,

 

A key point the quote alludes to for me is, "the Void learned it from the Seeming Beginning"... thus an often negatively interpreted or felt connotation related to the "Void" as imagined or projected is refuted if one accepts such sayings of a beyond the Void.

 

Om

 

Hehehe. Funny. You know, that never entered my mind. What many here refer to as the "void" is understood by me as "Mystery". Mystery is wonderful and beautiful - full of potential.

 

From a mystic point of view, the thought of entering the void (Mystery) is such a beautiful thought. Full potential to become whatever we might become. Birth, Decay and Renewal. (No, I'm not talking about Buddhist reincarnation here. Hehehe.)

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

For me the "Mystery" can also be likened to a "terrible" and bewildering dissolution of all the aspects of mind, including that of our so called personal minds and motives which few of us can bear to let go of; and why is that? because it literally dissolves us as a separate individuals! (who are ultimately and only apparent individuals) And who wants to be dissolved when there are so many fun and or interesting attachments for us as individuals to identify with and or experience? Heck, our possibilities related to things of the mind are more or less endless... so it looks like the Mystery will just have to wait a while since we have so many various things and "cultivations" to do to first, which will increase the powers of our minds.

 

Thus what is it that can gain entry to "Mystery"? (rhetorically speaking) Only that which never really left.

 

Om

Edited September 8, 2010 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

For me the "Mystery" can also be likened to a "terrible" and bewildering dissolution of all the aspects of mind, including that of our so called personal minds and motives which few of us can bear to let go of; and why is that? because it literally dissolves us as a separate individuals! (who are ultimately and only apparent individuals) And who wants to be dissolved when there are so many fun and or interesting attachments for us as individuals to identify with and or experience? Heck, our possibilities related to things of the mind are more or less endless... so it looks like the Mystery will just have to wait a while since we have so many various things and "cultivations" to do to first, which will increase the powers of our minds.

Om

 

But Bob, we are not supposed to stay there when we enter. We go there, look around, see that All is One, clear our mind of useless trash, then return to our own personal reality again. Deep meditation, that's all it is. When we are ready to bite the big one, sure, then we can go there and remain - what a peaceful passing that would be!

 

I do agree though, we all have many things to do in this manifest life. Can't be spending too much time in the Mystery or meditation or whatever. To live is the purpose of this manifest form we are currently locked up in. When we pass we can spend as much time as we like meditating and doing Yoga or whatever.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

But Bob, we are not supposed to stay there when we enter. We go there, look around, see that All is One, clear our mind of useless trash, then return to our own personal reality again. Deep meditation, that's all it is. When we are ready to bite the big one, sure, then we can go there and remain - what a peaceful passing that would be!

 

I do agree though, we all have many things to do in this manifest life. Can't be spending too much time in the Mystery or meditation or whatever. To live is the purpose of this manifest form we are currently locked up in. When we pass we can spend as much time as we like meditating and doing Yoga or whatever.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Hi MH,

 

If we really - go all the way - then there is no return to our own personal reality or any form to be locked in, that is part of the price paid - namely the end of being identified as a particular human body/mind that is or is not walking around in time. Such is the death of death and also of life as conventionally defined or known.

 

Om

[Marblehead]

Hi MH,

 

If we really - go all the way - then there is no return to our own personal reality or any form to be locked in, that is part of the price paid - namely the end of being identified as a particular human body/mind that is or is not walking around in time. Such is the death of death and also of life as conventionally defined or known.

 

Om

 

While I agree that a few have done this - skipped out on life - I think this is very abnormal. I would even go so far as to say it is not the Way of Tao.

 

The more common is returning to the 'real' world but not letting the meaninglessness of society bother us.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

While I agree that a few have done this - skipped out on life - I think this is very abnormal. I would even go so far as to say it is not the Way of Tao.

 

The more common is returning to the 'real' world but not letting the meaninglessness of society bother us.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Hi MH, (I was out of town awhile)

 

It sounds to me like you are misunderstnding my intended meaning...?

The alluding to I gave was not meant to equate with a skipping out on life; far from it - such was meant to mean the completion of and attachment to life (and death) in the realms of mind/things, thus attaining that which mind can not attain, manipulate or hold in memories. Further, mind of some form or another (including the subtle) thinks of itslef as the real self or in the real world as such is often referred to, but such realities are only apparent and or relative compared to the true self which is in no way limited to being a normal or great person. (however one may define such?)

 

A related point: Ultimately I don't see a "meaninglessness of society" since society is nothing more or less than various forms of energy in flux; btw, I don't feel that many of us here would normally say that the rays of the sun or the movements of the universe are meaningless since such are also various forms of energy in flux... and in that sense the Great Sage rejects nothing.

 

Om

[Marblehead]

Hi MH, (I was out of town awhile)

 

I hope you had a pleasant time.

 

It sounds to me like you are misunderstnding my intended meaning...?

The alluding to I gave was not meant to equate with a skipping out on life; far from it - such was meant to mean the completion of and attachment to life (and death) in the realms of mind/things, thus attaining that which mind can not attain, manipulate or hold in memories. Further, mind of some form or another (including the subtle) thinks of itslef as the real self or in the real world as such is often referred to, but such realities are only apparent and or relative compared to the true self which is in no way limited to being a normal or great person. (however one may define such?)

 

Yes, I had to test where you were coming from as I held a little confusion.

 

So yes, now I can basically agree with you. (I did learn a while back that I am not the center of the universe nor am I immortal.)

 

A related point: Ultimately I don't see a "meaninglessness of society" since society is nothing more or less than various forms of energy in flux; btw, I don't feel that many of us here would normally say that the rays of the sun or the movements of the universe are meaningless since such are also various forms of energy in flux...

 

Although I agree with what you said I suggest that we can disallow this energy from entering our essence if we feel the energy is negative. My use of the term "meaninglessness of society" was referring to those aspects of society that we feel is counterproductive to the well-being of humanity. We do not need allow this energy to effect us in any way if we so choose. So I suppose that "meaninglessness" should possibly have been "usefulness".

 

and in that sense the Great Sage rejects nothing.

 

Om

 

Hehehe. Nice you picked up on that. (But that is another concept that we might be able to discuss at some point.)

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

I hope you had a pleasant time.

 

 

 

Yes, I had to test where you were coming from as I held a little confusion.

 

So yes, now I can basically agree with you. (I did learn a while back that I am not the center of the universe nor am I immortal.)

 

Although I agree with what you said I suggest that we can disallow this energy from entering our essence if we feel the energy is negative. My use of the term "meaninglessness of society" was referring to those aspects of society that we feel is counterproductive to the well-being of humanity. We do not need allow this energy to effect us in any way if we so choose. So I suppose that "meaninglessness" should possibly have been "usefulness".

 

Hehehe. Nice you picked up on that. (But that is another concept that we might be able to discuss at some point.)

 

Peace & Love!

 

Our quintessential "essence" is also the Essence and is incorruptible. Such can not be entered into by that which is not itself, for if anything could then the Tao would also be corrupted.

 

I agree that the conditioned forms of energy you speak of may affect human beings on many different levels if they more or less take over those levels; but a difference I've been trying to alude to lately is that one Living beyond life and death levels radiates out energy like a brillant sun - thus lesser forms of energy can not enter into or influence that.

 

Om

[Marblehead]

Our quintessential "essence" is also the Essence and is incorruptible. Such can not be entered into by that which is not itself, for if anything could then the Tao would also be corrupted.

 

I would agree with this. It is my thought that once we have attained total inner peace & contentment we would be beyond corruption.

 

... but a difference I've been trying to alude to lately is that one Living beyond life and death levels radiates out energy like a brillant sun - thus lesser forms of energy can not enter into or influence that.

 

Om

 

Yeah, well, although this is a beautiful concept I doubt that I will ever attain that state. I do enjoy life too much. Well, maybe not too much but much. I think I will be a bit saddened when I can no longer live the physical life I wish to live.

 

But, yes, there are some people who radiate energy that is percievable by others. And I think that there is the possibility that they individuals would be beyond the influence of others or by their environment. But I have no sound thoughts on this to have a discussion of the concept.

 

Peace & Love!