question about bone density

[Yoda]

I just got an email from dragondoor and Bud Jafferies mentioning the fact that Bud's bones are dense

 

In regards to my bone density, when they have done x-rays to check on the density, because of the heavy weight stuff I've done, it's immeasurable. I'm off the chart.

 

What's the Taoist angle on bone density?

 

Thanks,

Yoda

[RON JEREMY]

DA BONES BE USED TO ACCUMMULATE CHING CHI IN DA LONG RUN. YA COANNOT ACCUMMULATE CHING IN YER HUEVOS, THEY WILL START HURTIN N EXPLODE.

YA CAN ACCUMMULATE A LOT MORE CHING PERMANNENTLY IN YER BONES IN DA LONG RUN. IT GOES INTO DA BONE MARROW. IN OLD FARTS, DA BONE MARROW DIES N GETS REPLACED BY FAT N CRAP.

 

HOWEVER, I SUSPECT THAT WHEN YA SAY *BONE DENSITY* YA BE TALKIN ABOUT DA MINERAL CONTENT DA MAKES EM HEAVY. THAT HAS ALSO TO DO WITH OTHER MORE PROFFANE FACTORS SUCH AS DIET N WEIGHT BEARIN EXERCISE, MODERN DIET IS KNOWN TO DEPPLETE CALCIUM SO THATS WHY DA GUBERMINT FEED US DA BULSHIT THAT *MILK IS GOOD FOR YA*. THATS BULSHIT, DA REASON WHY PEOPLE GET OSTHEOPPORROSIS IS THAT THEIR DIET IS SHITTY, DRINKIN COCACOLA N EATIN SUGARS MELTS DA CALCIUM.

 

HAVE YA STUDIED BONE MARROW NEI KUNG? FOR A BONER-LOVER LIKE YA, THATS ESSENTIAL READIN!!!

 

AARRGGHH AARRGGHH AARRGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

BYE NOW MY FRIEND

 

RJ

[hagar]

h

Edited May 25, 2009 by hagar

[RON JEREMY]

I can only talk for myself, but I do a sort of bone/marrow densing practice as an integral part of my "return journey" sitting meditation. On finishing up the meditation, I squeeze my hands across the backside of each hand like I'm squeezing water out of a sponge. It will make the bones permeated by the accumulated essential water or Jing that is induced throught meditation. After a while now it feels like my joints are more soft and my hands and feet and joints have gotten smaller. Literally.

Several practitioners of this type of meditation reports going down a size in shoes.

 

h

 

MAKE SURE DA YONT SQUEEZE YER KUK LIKE THAT, OR MASTER SAUEKNULLER *WILL* STEAL N *PULE* YER GIRLFRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

BYE NOW

RJ

[hagar]

h

Edited May 25, 2009 by hagar

[Max]

From what I understand, all those bone density excercises including Bone Marrow Nei Kung are not what they seem to be. Through cultivation practices the bones become soft and flexible like babies, and the effect would be you feel like walking on sponge with pleasurable effects. Hitting and massaging them is effective to a certain degree but if you are packing jing/energy into your bones, you will have a really hard time transforming them through meditation. As they say bone/hair/nails transformation will come last on the cultivation path, and it's the hardest to accomplish, even without "bone densing" practices. That's why the masters who transform their bodies before they die leave their hair and nails behind.

[Harry Pain]

If I remember correctly for bone marrow neigong to be effective, one has to lift at least 75 lbs of weights with the balls to produce enough jing to be hammered into the bones!

 

This in my opinion is dangerous too.

 

With Metta,

 

Harry Pain

[hagar]

h

Edited May 25, 2009 by hagar

[Trunk]

the bones and joints to be soft and juicy

Hagar is correct. Correct marrow washing practices invigorate the liquid part of the bones: the marrow, where blood is produced. The bones become healthier, stronger, yet they feel softer. I suspect that this is what is meant by "jade bones".

 

This can be done without any genital weight-lifting at all. Internal martial artists do it by integrating their body with the forces of heaven and earth, which naturally drive the nourishing essences through the layers of the body (including the bones).

 

The bone practices are essentially a heaven~man~earth practice. Any other auxilliary technique is just supposed to assist with what naturally occurs through that dynamic. Its just that Chia's presentation is so cut off from any authentic understanding of the process, that we're left with a very distorted view. Damn shame.

[Yoda]

ommmmmmmmmmmmm

[Max]

Good post. Yet, you have to look at what your goals are. If you want to become a very strong and powerful being with amazing martial art skills, then you should concentrate on those type of practices.

 

Just remember that spiritual traditions that are the most successful in producing enlightened masters omitted these practices in their teachings how to reach high states of cultivation. I think they did it for a good reason.

[SheepishLord]

Bone density is not necessarily a good thing. It is said that one cannot become an immortal if one doesn't have the bones to be one. Basically, the bones are crystalline, as are snowflakes--and you can imagine the variation in snowflakes!

 

Very dense bones are great if you want to be the world's strongest man or a martial artist, but may not be so great if you want to cultivate. My bones are very light, yet I have never broken any save for my nose (twice). At 33, my teeth also have no cavities and I am lucky if I brush them once a day (when I wake up) and I eat tons of sugar.

 

Bone marrow training will give you heavier powerful bones, but you are driving poison energy into your marrow and it will make you very sick when you are old.

 

The only thing I really regret in my Taoist life is my "Chi Weight Lifting" and all that stupid shit. Fuck Mantak Chia.

[RON JEREMY]

Bone density is not necessarily a good thing. It is said that one cannot become an immortal if one doesn't have the bones to be one. Basically, the bones are crystalline, as are snowflakes--and you can imagine the variation in snowflakes!

 

Very dense bones are great if you want to be the world's strongest man or a martial artist, but may not be so great if you want to cultivate. My bones are very light, yet I have never broken any save for my nose (twice). At 33, my teeth also have no cavities and I am lucky if I brush them once a day (when I wake up) and I eat tons of sugar.

 

Bone marrow training will give you heavier powerful bones, but you are driving poison energy into your marrow and it will make you very sick when you are old.

 

The only thing I really regret in my Taoist life is my "Chi Weight Lifting" and all that stupid shit. Fuck Mantak Chia.

 

PLATO I REALY DONT UNDERSTAND WHY YA HAVE TO DISRESPECT MASTER CHIA. OK YA DONT LIKE HIS SCHOOL, FINE, BUT REMMEMBER, HE DIDNT INVENT NOTHIN, HIS TEACHIN IS AN EXPLANNATION O MUCH OLDER CHINESE TRADDITION, SO WHEN YA SAY "FUCK M CHIA" REAly YA BE SAYIN, FUCK 5000 + YEARS O TAO PRACTICES.

 

THEN ITS NOT LIKE HIS MAIN TEACHINIS LIFTIN WEIGHT WITH DA HUEVOS. IT WAS *YA* WHO GOT OBSESSED BY YER HUEVOS N STARTED LIFTIN WEIHGT WITH THEM N STUFFIN YER ASS-HOWL WITH BLACK DONGS WITH DA EXCUSE O MASSAGIN YER PRO-STATTE. AM I WRONG! PLEASE RESPECT MASTER CHIA MORE.

 

RONNIETSU

[SheepishLord]

Why should I respect Mantak Chia? He stole his student's money. He pirated other people's works as his own.

 

Sorry Ron, but the man has taught utter crap and led everyone astray. The Healing Dao is a scam. It is NOT a several thousand year old tradition. It is a bunch of stuff slapped together to make money at worst, and at best a reversal of cause and effect which is quite common these days.

[Trunk]

Yoda,

 

I don't know of any book or video that is a good reference on this stuff.

 

To really get this, really, really - you can't get it from a book or video. You have to find a teacher of an internal martial art, in a lineage where actually effective heaven~man~earth techniques were passed on, where the teacher is skilled at teaching, and you must study for a long time under personal instruction.

 

Beyond that, it is likely that you will have to study diligently like this, through several different systems under several different teachers (or sometimes the same, or closely related, material through several different teachers)... each time being careful to seek out a good teacher who is teaching something worth while. (This implies some discrimination, patience, wisdom, on the part of the student.)

 

Same goes for enlightenment path. (And they all do go together: internal martial arts, Chinese medicine, philosophy, enlightenment path - all are intertwined.) You can see the aggressive people on this board are doing just that: they diligently learn what they can from one source, then keep progressing.

 

********

 

There are simple things that you can do on your own, that can produce beneficial results - but not of the measure from the above. Much of this you are already doing: standing practices, and letting whatever goes through you go through you. Some of the really simple things at my site to activate tendons, joints, etc. Just don't mistake that you're getting the measure of things possible as with a really good teacher.

 

I'd stay away from any really exotic extreme practice. Chia's works, in general, are so messed up - its really amazing.

 

btw, I think that Plato made another real score with Sonnon's material. I don't have time to really get into it (so i can't say much for sure), but i've checked it out a little. The pathway of integration for the internals is fascia-tendon-joint-bone. The joints are the nexus where those things come together, and Sonnon, by emphasizing joint health... I think that probably he's presenting things accessible through video that could be very beneficial to over-all health, emotional reconfiguration, developing some really interesting strength in the body that will help a person age well. He doesn't have the heaven-earth part in there, but, like i said.. you'd just have to find a really good teacher of internal martial arts for an in-person relationship. Sonnon is exploring a potentially very interesting and beneficial path.

 

There's a lot more to say, but i've already put a lot into this reply. One note, that self-refinement is definately part of this process, part of heaven~man~earth integration. Only shallow development available without self-refinement. You have to yield to the greater forces as they re-shape your body on many levels - to do that you have to let go your your self, your own pettiness. (Not always easy.)

 

Trunk

[RON JEREMY]

Why should I respect Mantak Chia? He stole his student's money. He pirated other people's works as his own.

 

Sorry Ron, but the man has taught utter crap and led everyone astray. The Healing Dao is a scam. It is NOT a several thousand year old tradition. It is a bunch of stuff slapped together to make money at worst, and at best a reversal of cause and effect which is quite common these days.

 

WAIT, DID HE STEAL YER MONEY? YA MEAN, HE GRABED YER WALLET WITHOUT YER CONSENT? OR IT WAS YA WHO PAID MONEY ON YER OWN FREE WILL? I MEAN, IF YA DECCIDE TO PAY $1000'S TO GO TO A RETTREAT, THEN NOODY IS FORCIN YA.

 

N NOW, WHERE IS DA UTRTER CRAP YA BE TALKIN ABOUT? GIMME SOME CONCRETE EXAMPLE PLEEZ.

 

CHANCES ARE, M.CHIA GAVE SHIT TO THOSE WO WERE LOOKIN FOR SHIT, N GOLD TO THOSE LOOKIN FOR GOLD.

WHAT ABOUT M. WINN? WHAT DO YA HAVE TO SAY ABOUT HIM? ISNT *HIS* A BUNCH O STUFF SLAPPED TOGETHER TO MAKE $$$?? HOW COME *HIS* TAKE COST 2 TIMES AS MUCH? DIDNT HE STEAL M.CHIA STUFF TO MAKE MONEY?

 

THEN LOOK, THESE ALCHEMY IDEA'S BE NOT ANYONE INVENTION, YA CANT SAY, OH M.CHIA STOLE D.SHEN IDEAS, THAT'S BULSHIT, WHATEVER IS OF VALUE IN DA SYSTEM WAS THAUGHT TO MEN 10,000S OF YEARS AGO N WAS TRANSMITTED THRU DA CENTURIES.

 

M.CHIA'S BEST STUFF IS IN HIS FIRST N CHEAPEST BOOKS, IF YA READ DA SEQUENCE : GOLDEN FLOWER-C.LUK'S TAO YOGA-M.CHIA BOOKS, THEN YA'LL HAVE A THOROUGH UNDERSTANDING O CHINESE ALCHEMY.

 

RJ

[SheepishLord]

What about Chia making off with the money of all those who invested in his Taoist version of "Jonestown?" What about the fact he stole his "cosmic healing" book from another author? This author proved it, but since Chia is in Thailand copyright law won't effect him.

 

Concrete examples? Look, you think you can suck other men's semen out from hookers who apparently never heard of condoms and use that as fuel to be an immortal so why would I even bother?

 

As far as Winn goes, all he cares about is his own immortality. I get a kick out of him writing that he was so well respected on that year 2000 China trip, but the truth is that the monks thought he was a rude, pushy guy with zero virtue. One of them literally said "the man has no virtue."

 

Some immortal he will make. :roll:

 

Your biggest logical flaw is that you think anything that turns up these days labelled "Taoist Alchemy" is part of an authentic 10,000,000 year old tradition.

[Trunk]

Basically, Chia is:

selling sensation and marketing it as "Taoism".

 

This is done by abandoning the deeper principles of Taoism (which must be taught first in order for this stuff to work), and promoting some of the more sensational (very advanced, much later) results. Unfortunately, the practices (and advanced 'fun' stuff) without the deeper stuff first is a sure recipe for injury.

 

Results:

Good for business, bad for students, bad for Taoism, bad for the world.

[IanB]

[RON JEREMY]

Concrete examples? Look, you think you can suck other men's semen out from hookers who apparently never heard of condoms and use that as fuel to be an immortal so why would I even bother?

 

Your biggest logical flaw is that you think anything that turns up these days labelled "Taoist Alchemy" is part of an authentic 10,000,000 year old tradition.

 

DUDE, I HAVE NEVER BE INTERRESTED IN SUCKIN OTHER MEN'S SEMEN OUTTA NOWHERE. BUT IF I DID, THAT STILL 'D BE OK COMPARED TO SOMEONE CONSUMER ATTITTUDE TOWARD SPIRITTUALITY. WHAT I DONT GET IS YER SARCASTIC REMMARK ABOUT NOT EVEN *BOTHERIN*. IF YA CANT COME UP WITH CONCRETE EXAMPLES OF WHAT YA CALL UTTER CRAP, DOINT DISENGAGE YERSELF BY INSULTIN ME.

 

BASICALLY WHAT YA BE SAYIN IS, *ME* BE TOO STOOPID TO UNDERSTAND YER *SUBLIME* LOGIC, SO *YA* WONT WASTE *YER* TIME.

 

WELL, THANK YA. I HAVE NOTICED YA HAVE THIS VIPER INSTINCT THAT YA TEND TO UNLASH AGGAINST PEOPLE WHO THINK YA BE A FRIEND. WATCH OUT CUZ REAL LIFE IS KNOWN TO KICK ASS TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE THAT TYPE O INSTINCT. ONCE REALITY ASSESSES YA BE POISONOUS, YALL BEAR THAT MARK FOR A *LONG* TIME DUDE.

 

BYE NOW

 

RJ

[SheepishLord]

Dude, you ask for a concrete example of shit when you are standing in a pile of it!

 

What can I possibly say to you?

[RON JEREMY]

Dude, you ask for a concrete example of shit when you are standing in a pile of it!

 

What can I possibly say to you?

 

MAN AT THIS POINT DA QUESTION NECCISSARILY ARISES, VIZ,

*WHO DA FUCK ARE YA TO JUDGE*???

 

DA BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH WESTERNERS WHEN DEALIN WITH ANCIENT TRADDITION IS, FIRST THEY APPROACH THIS OR THAT TEACHER, THEN THEY PRETTEND TO STUDY WITH DA GUY FOR A CERTAIN LENGTH O TIME, THEN THEY THINK THEY GOT IT ALL RIGHT N SEND DA TEACHER TO FUCK HIMSELF N ASSUME *THEY* BE NOW FULL BLOWN TEACHERS.

 

THIS FUKIN ARROGGANCE IS DA #1 OBSTACLE WESTERNERS HAVE IN GETTIN SOME SERIOUS TEACHER TO TEACH EM.

 

M.WINN DID DA SAME SHIT, E.EDDELSTIN DID DA SAME SHIT. NOW YA TRY TO DO DA SAME SHIT. N IF SOMEONE CONTRADICTS YA ALL YA CAN ANSWER IS INSULTS.

OK MAN, DA SAMSARA IS LASTS A LONG TIME, TAKE YER TIME TO SMASH YER SKULL AGGAINST REALITY, CHANCES BE IN DA INFINNITY O TIME SOONER OR LATER YA'LL GET IT.

BUT TO BE HONNEST, DA REASON YA CANT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY FOR NOW IS THAT EVVERY SO OFTEN YA COME OUT RAVIN ABOUT SOMETHIN OR SOMEONE, BUT THEN AFTER A CERTAIN TIME YA TURN THINGS UPSIDE DOWN N CURSE YER OLD FIXATION ONLY TO FIND A NEW ONE TO RAVE ABOUT.

SO DA ? IS, AT WHICH POINT IN TIME ARE YA RIGHT, N AT WHICH POINT WRONG? ARE YA RIGHT NOW, WHEN YA SAY SUCH N SUCH NAPPOLEON HILL MONEY MAKIN SCHEME IS DA ULTIMATE TEACHIN, OR WERE YA RIGHT YESTERDAY, WHEN YA THOUGHT M.WINN WAS DA ULTIMMATE TEACHER, OR WERE YA RIGHT DA DAY BEFORE, WHEN YA WORSHIPED M.CHIA?

 

TO AN EXTERNAL OBSERVER, YA JUST APPEAR UNSTABLE, EVER-CHANGIN, IN A WORD: UNRELIABLE.

BUT TRUE, NOONE IS PERFECT.

BUT YA HAVE AN ADDED TAINT THAT MAKES YA WORSE THAN IMPERFECT:

YA HAVE THIS STAB-IN-DA-BACK TAINT MYMAN, THIS VIPER INSTINCT.

 

THIS AINT GOOD. GET A FRIENDLY, WELL MEANIN ADVICE FROM THIS *PILE O SHIT*: GET RID O DA VIPER INSTINCT!

 

RJ

[SheepishLord]

TO AN EXTERNAL OBSERVER, YA JUST APPEAR UNSTABLE, EVER-CHANGIN, IN A WORD: UNRELIABLE.

 

To an elightened observer, I am growing while you are surfing fugly.com for pictures that reflect your stasis.

[Trunk]

The point is, that allowing clarifying-conversation to degenerate into personal attacks results in nothing good. Simple point.

[Max]

Ronny, please don't take it personally...

Plato is the last person here who deserves ALL-CAPS-"REAL-LIFE"-KICK-IN-DA-ASS scares.

 

Don't look at what people say- look at what they do. And only based on that consider if they deserve your respect. I know Plato does in my book.