We come up with a list of reasons...

[blacktrack8]

We come up with a list of reasons to justify meditation. We think that we're going to get something from it - that it will lower our blood pressure, reduce our stress, calm us down, or enhance our concentration. And, we tell ourselves, if we meditate long enough and in just the right way, it might even bring us enlightenment.

 

All of this is delusion.

 

-Steve Hagen

 

 

Clous appear free of care

And carefree drift away.

But the carefree mind is not to be "found" -

To find it, first stop looking around.

 

-Wang An-Shih

 

I'm sure I could have never expressed it better.

 

This one goes well with this theme too

 

The capacity of mind is broad and huge, like the vast sky. Do not sit with a mind fixed on emptiness. If you do you will fall into a neutral kind of emptiness. Emptiness includes the sun, moon, stars, and planets, the great earth, mountains and rivers, all trees and grasses, bad men and good men, bad things and good things, heaven and hell; they are all in the midst of emptiness. The emptiness of human nature is also like this.

 

-Hui-Neng

Edited September 5, 2010 by blacktrack8

[Marblehead]

I won't argue against what has been said but I will still suggest that there is usefulness in meditation.

 

Peace & Love!

[metal dog]

Meditation...

Rememberance of my self as to what I may have forgotten in regard to the truth that I am God

Edited September 5, 2010 by metal dog

[metal dog]

...I like that...and will meditate upon it further...

 

Edited September 5, 2010 by metal dog

[thelerner]

Meditation- the human reset button.

 

 

Michael

[Mal]

[King Kabalabhati]

Meditate. Don't meditate. Do meditate. No don't meditate. MEDITATE. DON'T MEDITATE. MEDITATE! NO DON'T MEDITATE! MEDITATE!!!! DON'T MEDITATE!!!!

 

I don't know if I meditate. But often sitting still doing nothing feels like... no, I won't say it, it might be delusional. MEDITATE!!!

[King Kabalabhati]

sry dbl meditate

Edited September 6, 2010 by King Kabalabhati

[de_paradise]

These Zen sayings were meant for monks who tried and tried all day years meditating and are blocked by their own devotion, not for lazy Western spiritual wannabes who want to console themselves for doing nothing. Yet these sayings are always taken out of context, especially by Western teachers who want to sound wise and paradoxical, like this Hagen fellow, who should know better.

[blacktrack8]

I would say Hagen makes a good point. If we go into meditation with expectation we're not doing it right.

[de_paradise]

Expectations are just thoughts among many others, do a few thousand hours of mediation and see what I mean. Motivations however, are good, and this is where I would disagree with Hagen because he wants to present and idealized version to an audience of people who can do well with just any meditation. He's chopping away at motivations, because he is trying to sound like old Zen masters, but demotivating his audience in the process.

[ShaktiMama]

Miyamoto Musashi: "I am a man with a smooth forehead."

 

Author of "A Book of Five Rings".

The five rings means the 5 elements in the Godai system. (japanese)

How smooth is your forehead?

s

 

From Dr. Glenn Morris' notes:

 

Book of Five Rings is the classic work on strategy from the viewpoint of the individual warrior. This is your guide through earth and water. Musashi tells us he meditates (I am a man with a smooth forehead.) in code, and is a devotee of the Goddess (Kannon). Rather surprising coming from one of the more successful sword duelists in Japanese history. You really have to understand combat, chi kung, and sensitivity to grasp many of Musashi's concepts. He lies a lot. He leads you astray while giving you awesome information that could save your life. He complains about problems in his day that are still problems in ours. Whenever he says, "Study on this." or "Oral tradition only." he is usually warning the informed reader that one should, but few do, break this principle down and get to work as he has only revealed the tip of the blade to the neophyte. The Harris translation is what I usually have students read first and everyone should own it in hardback just because you will read it forty or fifty times, but particularly at white through red belt it should be read often. Basics, basics, basics.

The Cleary translation is a better translation than the Harris but doesn't reveal much about the man or his artwork which are important to understanding his style of fighting. The Cleary translation also includes Yagyu Munenori's scroll for the shinkage ryu. As Musashi holds strategies for the individual, Munenori benefits the company commander or group leader, particularly those that gather intelligence. The Yagyus discuss hardcore strategy as well as the esoteric application of a few methods. Interestingly enough though Munenori mentions he has seen people use various types of mind control he claims not to be very good at it. Questions from his perspective are asked at orange belt.

--Glenn

[blacktrack8]

Sure, expectations are just thoughts, among others. But if you haven't realized your whole day should be meditation, then meditation still hasn't worked out for you yet. If you set yourself to daily regimens and think about the fact that you're meditating, if you tell other people you meditate, if you think "I'm meditating so one day I might be enlightened", you're not going to become enlightened. In a lot of ways this is like the smoker saying "one day I'll quit" when clearly he could do something about it. (Smokers can out-think cravings). If you look at the works of the ancient enlightened they all point to the fact that we are all enlightened, and if you've been sitting for thousands of hours and still aren't enlightened, well, maybe that ways not going to let you see the light.

 

I am not enlightened. I know that. But I know its as easy as 1,2,3 if I let it be. For some reason people think of enlightenment as the hardest of all things to attain in life, when really, if you let it all go, its that easy. Thats what Steve Hagen is trying to point out, the fact that so many people force themselves to sit, when, if its forced, theres no point. If all you're thinking about is doing your dishes or your homework when you're meditating, wouldn't you be better off doing one of them?

 

I love the Buddha quote that goes something like this

 

"And when Buddha became enlightened, he laughed at himself, for it had been there all along."

 

Also, the book of the five rings is awesome.

 

And to be fair, I don't think interest in meditation is a bad thing, and its a good jumping off point. I really would like to hear the rest of Hagen's speech, but I do think he makes a good point.

Edited September 8, 2010 by blacktrack8

[DalTheJigsaw123]

These Zen sayings were meant for monks who tried and tried all day years meditating and are blocked by their own devotion, not for lazy Western spiritual wannabes who want to console themselves for doing nothing. Yet these sayings are always taken out of context, especially by Western teachers who want to sound wise and paradoxical, like this Hagen fellow, who should know better.

 

 

 

I do agree...