OBE

[~jK~]

A few more hints: Reincarnation and Evolution are the same word.

Edited September 9, 2010 by ~jK~

[Thunder_Gooch]

A few more hints: Reincarnation and Evolution are the same word.

 

You'd have to elaborate more as I don't really get what you mean. You can post all the esoteric gibberish you want, but who has read it and accomplished anything by following it's teachings to the letter?

 

I don't really much care for taoist wishy washy poetry. I mean sure it's cool to read and appreciate and enjoy the philosophy behind, but philosophy is not training, and philosophizing doesn't accomplish much in the real world.

Edited September 9, 2010 by More_Pie_Guy

[~jK~]

A few more hints: Reincarnation and Evolution are the same word.

 

The problem is becoming more and more obvious.

Edited September 9, 2010 by ~jK~

[Thunder_Gooch]

The problem is becoming more and more obvious.

 

Yes I believe so also. Instead of dropping me "hints" just elaborate in simple English what the heck you are driving at.

[~jK~]

Yes I believe so also. Instead of dropping me "hints" just elaborate in simple English what the heck you are driving at.

Just wait here and I'll be right back.

[Mokona]

Actually, I've noticed that projection is a powerful energy working method. I've seen people physically effected over distance with OBE/projection. I won't get into an argument though, it all comes down to perception, and if you can't find a use for it, it is better that you can keep out of the way for those who do, it is better that way.

[~jK~]

Actually, I've noticed that projection is a powerful energy working method. I've seen people physically effected over distance with OBE/projection. I won't get into an argument though, it all comes down to perception, and if you can't find a use for it, it is better that you can keep out of the way for those who do, it is better that way.

If you get a chance go see the film 'Inception' it is about OBE.

The movie's Video trailer :

Edited September 9, 2010 by ~jK~

[LBDaoist]

Right now I am working too much to devote much of my life to training. I am saving to purchase an acre of land, a camper, a roof over the camper, a washing machine, newer used car, and well and septic. That is my immediate goal. After that milestone I plan on devoting my life to training, and working part time to maintain a minimum standard of living.

 

At one point in my life I wanted to move up into the mountains and open a temple. I had only been training with my sifu for a couple of years, and I was under the impression that being a sifu is an easy gig. My perception was that I would get paid to train all the time. How sweet would that be?

 

I was introduced to the translations of Thomas Cleary, and there were some truly profound words from some older Taoists and Buddhists in there. I wish that I could relate them to you, as they were related to me because they had a profound impact upon my thinking. Since I cannot, I can only give you the insight that they opened up for me.

 

I realized that I was running away. I realized that I was making things overly complicated. I did not need to leave civilization and head into the mountains to seek enlightenment. Enlightenment exists in this moment... and this moment... and this one too... and the one after that... it was back there in those other ones, and it is in this one too. It happens everywhere, at every time, any time and sometimes not at all even where it once was before. The mind exists inconsistently, yet we can introduce consistency to it. However often times in our search and quest for our own ideas of consistence, we setup barriers and stray from the path.

 

Everything that you have spoken of, your land and shelter are good things and worthy of accomplishing. Yet once you get all of those, how will you be any different from who you are now? Will you think different thoughts or act in different ways? Must you have them before you can act differently? Do you even need to act differently?

 

One of the things that amazed me about practicing qigong and tai chi when I first started, is how effective the practices were. I was at a very dark place in my life (and I've realized that the OBE I had might have been positive, and perhaps it was the universe pulling me away from that place... introducing my mind to the possibility that I could leave it)... and despite being in that dark place, and despite having many bad habits that were destructive to my well being, when I set aside the time to meditate and to practice, I felt better. Small periods of time, fifteen to thirty minutes a day made a world of difference. Those short periods of time, repeated with consistency over long periods of time proved to be a turning point in my life.

 

I still want a temple, yet my intentions are different. Rather than seeking a free ride, I realize that the purpose of the practice has a strong component of helping others. I realize that although the mountains are ideal, I do not need to be there. I met my sifu less than a mile from the ocean, and he has been there for 35 years.

 

I encourage you to continue on your path to your land. It sounds like a powerful motivator. I am curious to learn what you will do when you get there, that you are unable to do now.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Everything that you have spoken of, your land and shelter are good things and worthy of accomplishing. Yet once you get all of those, how will you be any different from who you are now? Will you think different thoughts or act in different ways? Must you have them before you can act differently? Do you even need to act differently?

 

Well I need a away to be able to work part time, to devote more time to training. Right now I have maybe 3 hours each day to myself, and 2 days off a week which are spent playing catch up on chores, laundry, yard work, bills, shopping, house cleaning, etc. I find I am just not happy living this way, work, sleep, work. I want to do more than just work, I want to have time to dedicate to research, meditation and training.

 

I want to own the very minimum to support a basic quality of life, electricity, running water, hot water, a computer and internet access, dependable transportation etc.

 

Once I have gotten my bills and taxes as low as possible I want to work the minimum required to maintain that basic quality of life.

 

This seems to be the most reasonable solution to my problem.

 

I still meditate each night, but being in this high stress 24/7 work environment is killing me and I have to find some other way of living soon.

[markern]

More PIe Guy, Daniel Ingram has your exact same attitude in most ways and his book and forum has been incredibly sucessful in leading people to the first levels of budhist enlightenment and quite a bit beyond that as well. Vipassana done according to good maps is VERY fast. If you want to maximize your chances of escaping rebirth what I would do is this: PRacticing Vipassana accroding to Ingrams principples like your hair is on fire and combine it with some energywork you have faith in. Use that to get a fairly high level of attainment. THen go find the most enlightened Tibetan Lamas you can dig up. Once you already have a high level of realization they will teach you the most high level stuff. If you start out from the beginning you will have to wait in line for this sort of teaching for VERY long and might not have time to get there.

[Thunder_Gooch]

More PIe Guy, Daniel Ingram has your exact same attitude in most ways and his book and forum has been incredibly sucessful in leading people to the first levels of budhist enlightenment and quite a bit beyond that as well. Vipassana done according to good maps is VERY fast. If you want to maximize your chances of escaping rebirth what I would do is this: PRacticing Vipassana accroding to Ingrams principples like your hair is on fire and combine it with some energywork you have faith in. Use that to get a fairly high level of attainment. THen go find the most enlightened Tibetan Lamas you can dig up. Once you already have a high level of realization they will teach you the most high level stuff. If you start out from the beginning you will have to wait in line for this sort of teaching for VERY long and might not have time to get there.

 

Yes thank you. I own his book, but never finished it. Hopefully this winter I will have time off from work enough to catch up.

[Sunya]

There is a reason that most adherent's of "serious spiritual traditions" never accomplish accomplish their stated goals. Their practices don't work.

 

Depends what you mean by "work" and what their goals are. Most people don't actually want enlightenment so they don't properly apply the practices. There's nothing wrong with the practices

 

I have a friend who has been doing vipassana meditation now for 10 years every day. He goes to the retreats and such every chance he gets. I asked him last time I saw him if he was any closer to his goal of enlightenment and liberation than the day he started. He replied with an explanation about waiting for spontaneous instant enlightenment after many more years of practicing he thought it would come to him. I asked him if that had happened to anyone he had ever heard about in his school, to which he responded only with silence. I asked if actually anyone in his school that he had ever heard of had achieved enlightenment through their training, again silence. I didn't expect an answer as I meant those questions rhetorically, if Buddhist or mainstream taoist practices were producing any real enlightened being's it would be all over the news.

 

I love my friend but he will die before he get's any closer to his goals, because modern "serious spiritual traditions" don't work. None of the mainstream schools are producing enlightened liberated students, only peaced out hippies.

 

I know many very realized beings who practice Vajrayana, Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Vipassana, and other serious methods. I think you hang out with the wrong crowd. Your friend needs a better teacher. Tell him to get in contact with the folks at Dharma Overground.

 

I like systems which actually produce results, Robert Bruce's system is one such system. I've had several OBE's with his method. I believe I actually made contact with another person during an obe as we both have shared memories of the event.

 

Results are good, but what kind of results? Real results on the path are those of getting rid of delusion, having insights about your true nature, and letting go of false concepts and beliefs. Having fantastical journeys and talking to aliens is ego food and spiritual entrapment. There is no need to seek spiritual masters elsewhere. There are plenty here. There are SO many highly realized beings on Earth today, but they do not talk about OBEs or energy or anything of the like. They talk about no-self, nondual awareness and presence, compassion, and being here now (not in la-la land wishing for a noncorporeal being to tell you to study your own mind).

 

Problem is, if you only hang out on forums like this or Astral Dynamics then will get this idea about spirituality being about energy and health and having wild experiences. That's a joke. All of that is just self-affirming fantasy. If you want to get real you'll start doing serious practices like vipassana and find a realized guide to help you. The Dharma Overground forum and Kenneth Folk's forum are both filled with people who are attaining real results and gaining true insights.

 

Daniel Ingram is probably the first person who has went public with his experiences and insights and claimed enlightenment. This is a taboo thing in Buddhism and he thinks more enlightened people should go public to show that the methods work. He wasn't on the news though, nobody cares about this stuff. "HEADLINE: Meditator realizes the emptiness of all self and phenomena" lol

Edited September 9, 2010 by Sunya

[goonis38]

There is a reason that most adherent's of "serious spiritual traditions" never accomplish accomplish their stated goals. Their practices don't work.

 

 

I have a friend who has been doing vipassana meditation now for 10 years every day. He goes to the retreats and such every chance he gets. I asked him last time I saw him if he was any closer to his goal of enlightenment and liberation than the day he started. He replied with an explanation about waiting for spontaneous instant enlightenment after many more years of practicing he thought it would come to him. I asked him if that had happened to anyone he had ever heard about in his school, to which he responded only with silence. I asked if actually anyone in his school that he had ever heard of had achieved enlightenment through their training, again silence. I didn't expect an answer as I meant those questions rhetorically, if Buddhist or mainstream taoist practices were producing any real enlightened being's it would be all over the news.

 

I love my friend but he will die before he get's any closer to his goals, because modern "serious spiritual traditions" don't work. None of the mainstream schools are producing enlightened liberated students, only peaced out hippies.

 

 

You can chant "om padme hum" till your teeth fall out, spin around in circles as a whirling dervish, trip your balls off with all kinds of shamanic entheogens, pray at a church, mosque or synagog, cast wiccan spells you buy off ebay or find at your local discount wicca-mart, preform guided meditations, try yogic flying, etc and you still aren't going to achieve anything other than an empty wallet as a result of your efforts.

 

 

I like systems which actually produce results, Robert Bruce's system is one such system. I've had several OBE's with his method. I believe I actually made contact with another person during an obe as we both have shared memories of the event.

 

I have noticed that during an OBE your ability to move chi into, through, and outside of your body is enhanced several hundred fold. In fact the only time other people have been able to even feel energy from me was when I was in a deep trance state having a near OBE like experience.

 

One of my personal goals for OBE training is to become advanced enough to seek out high level teachers in the astral, I know it sounds crazy but there sure is a shortage here on earth.

 

Hi there,

I agree with most everything you say. Monroe is also a very good teacher in this. Yes this is what the point is to seek out higher being and learn... Also not only help your self, help others... Nice to met you... Take care Mel

[goonis38]

MPG,

OBE is a cute and sometimes usefull toy.

But, after all is said and done, it is only a toy.

 

 

JK

Only a toy? Really... Mel

[~jK~]

JK

Only a toy? Really... Mel

Yes - only a toy.

It exists but only to those that know how to create it.

You even use it to play imaginative sex games as a sex toy - without any ability in reality.

 

What other benefit is there?

[LBDaoist]

Yes - only a toy.

It exists but only to those that know how to create it.

You even use it to play imaginative sex games as a sex toy - without any ability in reality.

 

What other benefit is there?

 

It is interesting to me that sex has been mentioned in the context of OBEs. At a previous point in my life I spent a lot of time roleplaying out fantasy sex scenes online. I had a few of my partners tell me that roleplaying with me was unlike playing with other people. One of them said that there was a sense of physical presence there, as if it were real. The online forum in a way became a conduit for shared hallucination, a medium through which two minds could become synchronized in fantasy.

 

It seems as if sexual energy is very powerful. My suspicion is that it has something to do with it being the basis of creation.

[goonis38]

It is interesting to me that sex has been mentioned in the context of OBEs. At a previous point in my life I spent a lot of time roleplaying out fantasy sex scenes online. I had a few of my partners tell me that roleplaying with me was unlike playing with other people. One of them said that there was a sense of physical presence there, as if it were real. The online forum in a way became a conduit for shared hallucination, a medium through which two minds could become synchronized in fantasy.

 

It seems as if sexual energy is very powerful. My suspicion is that it has something to do with it being the basis of creation.

 

Hi there,

Only a toy, well it's a good toy...lol I know just what your talking about. What a great way to put it. Those where some lucky lady's. I guess you just moved of to China, but can still visit anyways. Good way to cut down on air fair...lol And long distance phone calls... This toy is getting more useful the more I think about it.

 

As far as sexual energy being powerful, there is no doubt about that, and some more than others. Is it a hallucination? I wonder... Well I'm getting tired time for bed. I guess your just getting started in China. Thats so crazy how different the time is. I bet that took some getting used to...

 

Oh didn't know if you got that message earlier, it came back. But that sounds good... Melanie

P.S. have a good one

[~jK~]

It is interesting to me that sex has been mentioned in the context of OBEs. At a previous point in my life I spent a lot of time roleplaying out fantasy sex scenes online. I had a few of my partners tell me that roleplaying with me was unlike playing with other people. One of them said that there was a sense of physical presence there, as if it were real. The online forum in a way became a conduit for shared hallucination, a medium through which two minds could become synchronized in fantasy.

 

It seems as if sexual energy is very powerful. My suspicion is that it has something to do with it being the basis of creation.

 

Excellent Analogy on all points!

Particularly on the point that it has something to do with it being the basis of creation.

Add that to a little Left brain controlled function and it becomes something able to evolve.

How to do the Left brain controlled function?

It comes with a few exercises like sports but it's growth is like a waterfall when learning to play a musical instrument.

Edited September 10, 2010 by ~jK~

[~jK~]

 

Hi there,

Only a toy, well it's a good toy...lol I know just what your talking about. What a great way to put it. Those where some lucky lady's. I guess you just moved of to China, but can still visit anyways. Good way to cut down on air fair...lol And long distance phone calls... This toy is getting more useful the more I think about it.

 

As far as sexual energy being powerful, there is no doubt about that, and some more than others. Is it a hallucination? I wonder... Well I'm getting tired time for bed. I guess your just getting started in China. Thats so crazy how different the time is. I bet that took some getting used to...

 

Oh didn't know if you got that message earlier, it came back. But that sounds good... Melanie

P.S. have a good one

Hey - I got the web all to myself !

MeThinks you is just beginning to learn to play with toys

[Mokona]

Hey - I got the web all to myself !

MeThinks you is just beginning to learn to play with toys

 

If you don't want to include the things OBE brings into the equation, then it easy to leave it alone unless you have a problem with spontaneous projection. Otherwise, I feel if ignoring it or assuming it as something as useless as a toy is self detrimental, IMO only. It is easy to see when someone has made up their mind, and little reason exists to change it if these beliefs aren't causing any harm. It is like owning a plot of land, unless your nearest residents turn around and decide to burn you to death in your barn then its well enough to leave each other be. So, I'll let you be.

 

Though, what I do find to be at least a nuisance is the "hint dropping" since your beliefs are just that, and even if you feel that they have allowed you to climb to a plane much above our own, or perhaps you feel it helps us somehow to say these things - it equates to throwing useless facts at a person like saying the Effiel Tower is so many feet tall, or the soil is only so deep in Southern California due to sediments. Koans are meant to change the way a person is thinking and open the doors of perception. If that is really what is being attempted here perhaps you should change the approach that is being used. No harm done.

[~jK~]

If you don't want to include the things OBE brings into the equation, then it easy to leave it alone unless you have a problem with spontaneous projection. Otherwise, I feel if ignoring it or assuming it as something as useless as a toy is self detrimental, IMO only. It is easy to see when someone has made up their mind, and little reason exists to change it if these beliefs aren't causing any harm. It is like owning a plot of land, unless your nearest residents turn around and decide to burn you to death in your barn then its well enough to leave each other be. So, I'll let you be.

 

Though, what I do find to be at least a nuisance is the "hint dropping" since your beliefs are just that, and even if you feel that they have allowed you to climb to a plane much above our own, or perhaps you feel it helps us somehow to say these things - it equates to throwing useless facts at a person like saying the Effiel Tower is so many feet tall, or the soil is only so deep in Southern California due to sediments. Koans are meant to change the way a person is thinking and open the doors of perception. If that is really what is being attempted here perhaps you should change the approach that is being used. No harm done.

 

Mokona, When I drop a hint - it is intended to simply point to a way that I have experienced as a working possibility - not as education - which seems to be what you are trying to do.

 

Would you mind qualifying your statements so they seem less like barking ?

 

To the best of my knowledge you are no one's father or even a moderator on this website.

 

Nevermind - I've decided to simply place you on my Iggy list. ~ By Bye ~

Edited September 10, 2010 by ~jK~

[goonis38]

 

Hi everyone,

Children...Children...Play nice now. Or no dinner for you, and straight to bed with ya...lol

Take care Mel

[Gauss]

I would say that without Gong OBE can be downright dangerous, a demon might take possession of your body or even kill your main primordial spirit while getting out there. When they see little you there, with that precious human body and without any means of defending yourself...

 

I got demon obsession from Biyun Qi Gong and after starting practicing Falun Dafa the demon came after me to take my life. Had I not had the protection I have in Falun Dafa, well... The beast was creepier than creepy.

 

So watch out, pursuit is a very dangerous attachment.

[goonis38]

I would say that without Gong OBE can be downright dangerous, a demon might take possession of your body or even kill your main primordial spirit while getting out there. When they see little you there, with that precious human body and without any means of defending yourself...

 

I got demon obsession from Biyun Qi Gong and after starting practicing Falun Dafa the demon came after me to take my life. Had I not had the protection I have in Falun Dafa, well... The beast was creepier than creepy.

 

So watch out, pursuit is a very dangerous attachment.

/quote]

Hi there,

I think this is so true... I know this for a fact that there are also higher beings out there. Fallen Angels, demons, and spirits... You are very right, and thank you... Maybe thats why I have not been able to go into an OBE again... Something keeps getting in the way of my meditation... So could be my Angel doesn't want me to go there and knows what you do...

 

I'm glad you are ok, and could protect yourself... And I will follow your advise... My body does seem to try on it's own every once in awhile to go into sleep paralysis, and the vibrational state... Looking for reason for all this happening to me brought me to OBE, just trying to understand why my body was acting like that. Could be an outside source. Don't know...

 

No worries friend, thank you for the advise... Take care Melanie

[Sunya]

I would say that without Gong OBE can be downright dangerous, a demon might take possession of your body or even kill your main primordial spirit while getting out there. When they see little you there, with that precious human body and without any means of defending yourself...

 

I got demon obsession from Biyun Qi Gong and after starting practicing Falun Dafa the demon came after me to take my life. Had I not had the protection I have in Falun Dafa, well... The beast was creepier than creepy.

 

So watch out, pursuit is a very dangerous attachment.

 

You know what's a more dangerous attachment? The self. Fearing that some demon is going to steal your body or your soul. That's much more dangerous.

 

Nobody can hurt who you truly are. Once you recognize your true nature, which is beyond any names, concepts, boundaries, then there is nothing to worry about. You only had that experience because you cling to self and fear arose. Should've radiated compassion and the demon (most likely just your subconscious projection) would've been pacified.

 

Exploration without wisdom is dangerous because you can become even more deluded. Prime example of why I said earlier in this thread that OBE is just ego food.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Sunya