OBE

[goonis38]

Awwww I picked you for a White Bird person:

Well, It'll still be here when you pop out of your shell

 

White Bird - It's a Beautiful Day - Live - 1971 (stereo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0J77CRMeTA&feature=related

 

Lol... who is in a shell?... Not I...

[LBDaoist]

"A transcended being can live in the most extreme negative environment, a slum in Mumbai or in Mexico City, and remain radiant, loving and blissful. Feeling life's pain and the pain of others and transcending it."

 

Um- I'm not so sure that some people are ready to explore the idea (at least, just the idea) that their outward circumstances may have little to do with their own satisfaction and/or circumstances.

 

I am personally grateful that I live in neither Mumbai nor Mexico City. For lots of reasons - few of them are "transcendental".

 

Of course I'm often wrong. Do you/have you lived there?

 

What I got from the original post was that a person can love and wish others well no matter where they are. The experience of being in squalor does not preclude one from loving another, helping another, and bringing another peace of mind.

 

I think it was a Tupac documentary that I was watching. And they were talking about life in "the ghetto", and the lack of money there. One woman made a very insightful commentary that took me a while to comprehend, but I think it fits in with the idea being touched upon here. She said, "If compassion were money, the ghetto would be the richest place in the world."

 

Money and privilege seem to be inversely proportional to compassion. Even in my own life, I find that as I find more materialistic success, my thoughts gravitate toward disdain for others who lean on others, and need others. I am constantly reminding myself that I am fortunate, that my experience in this life time has been one of blessing and luck. Just because I have attained what I have, does not mean that everyone else can be as fortunate and have the same opportunities that I have had. A lot of where a person ends up in life comes down to luck.

 

I think the Buddha left India and traveled to China, leaving behind a life of riches for a reason. There is a reason why I recently heard a tale of an energy healer who makes LOTS of money every year healing very rich heads of corporations, yet he donates all of his money back to the temple on Wudang mountain. Letting money accumulate leads to bad things. It needs to remain in circulation, preferably spread around as evenly as possible so that all who have a use for it can get what they need.

Edited September 12, 2010 by LBDaoist

[Thunder_Gooch]

Think for yourself.

 

My gut says no, and I've never heard of people who claim nondualistic awareness that also claim liberation from rebirth.

Edited September 13, 2010 by More_Pie_Guy

[gendao]

I think it was a Tupac documentary that I was watching. And they were talking about life in "the ghetto", and the lack of money there. One woman made a very insightful commentary that took me a while to comprehend, but I think it fits in with the idea being touched upon here. She said, "If compassion were money, the ghetto would be the richest place in the world."

Lol, really???

Hey, maybe these guys can give the Dalai Lama some tips!

 

 

I just love liberal mythology 101!

Edited September 13, 2010 by vortex

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Vortex, there are many, many deeply compassionate people living in ghettos. They way outnumber the gangstas. Many proud and courageous men and women are making the best out of life with despite awful circumstances. So you think all people living in poverty are all the same? Why is it "liberal mythology" to see the good side of life in the ghetto?In my job, I often go into people's homes in every part of my county, and I can't tell you how many very clean and orderly homes filled with loving, proud people are caring for sick or dying family members. From the outside, the bad neighborhood with run down houses hide the lives of the people inside. You really find amazing things if you are open. You seem to judge poor people as a group rather harshly. And since when is seeing beyond the violence and the squalor "liberal mythology"?

[Encephalon]

Vortex, there are many, many deeply compassionate people living in ghettos. They way outnumber the gangstas. Many proud and courageous men and women are making the best out of life with despite awful circumstances. So you think all people living in poverty are all the same? Why is it "liberal mythology" to see the good side of life in the ghetto?In my job, I often go into people's homes in every part of my county, and I can't tell you how many very clean and orderly homes filled with loving, proud people are caring for sick or dying family members. From the outside, the bad neighborhood with run down houses hide the lives of the people inside. You really find amazing things if you are open. You seem to judge poor people as a group rather harshly. And since when is seeing beyond the violence and the squalor "liberal mythology"?

 

JF-Christ, don't even bother. The subject of what is known as "social capital," non-monetary exchanges and processes between people and groups of people, has been one of the most influential themes in the Social Sciences of the last decade, due in large part to Robert Putnam's "Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community" of 2000. I also witnessed this in Cuba: economically depressed/suppressed environments where people's lives are intricately woven together with the entire community. It's the only way to make it, and, IMO, it corresponds with the theory and practice of Indra's Net (if people even take that concept seriously) more than our self-serving consumer culture.

 

This is just reason number 543,582 why education is good for people and good for society; it keeps incomprehensible stupidity and ignorance at bay (or at least we once thought so, at a time when ignorance wasn't held in such high esteem).

Edited September 13, 2010 by Blasto

[Birch]

OT. Did you see the movie?

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303356/

[Vajrahridaya]

She said, "If compassion were money, the ghetto would be the richest place in the world."

 

 

 

I've lived in the same projects that Tupac lived at in Marin City called the Jungle. I've lived in the hood in Oakland, CA. I've lived in the Tenderloin in San Francisco; Harlem, NY; Jamaica, Queens of 50 cent fame and Bedstuy, Brooklyn of J-Z and Biggie fame. You won't find much compassion in the hood unless you really know how to hold down that light and know how to shine it in a way with advanced awareness, but once they leave your presence, they'll be back to greedy, heartless and cold activities... for the most part and think that meeting you was just an Alien experience. Being shady is a full time job in the Ghetto and most hearts are closed and locked up due to having been hurt too many times. It's an extreme situation of lots of negativity with lots of "hungry ghosts" running around feeding the cravings of the suffering.

 

It's because they've all been taught that money is the root of all happiness instead of inner contemplation. There is nothing but scheming and social thinking going on in the hood. There isn't much "space" for a really deep thought with all the "Black Magic" that fly's around in the ghetto. Ghetto people are bonkers!! I know... I am one.

 

But, I live in a good area now, right across the street from the beginning of a ghetto, but at least not right inside of it.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

Vortex, there are many, many deeply compassionate people living in ghettos. They way outnumber the gangstas.

 

I would not say they outnumber the gangsters, not that everyone is a gangsta in the hood. But, most of them are bitter and deeply into the "dark side" mentality.

 

There are definitely good and compassionate people in the ghetto, and from the ghetto who got out of the ghetto. But most, that doesn't mean all, but most older people in the ghetto are pretty bitter, or happily drunk.

[Aetherous]

The only experience I have with the ghetto is when I went with my parent's church youth group to help repair a woman's roof, in North Carolina. She weighed over 500 pounds, and never left the house. Her room stunk so bad, because she was too heavy to get up and go to the bathroom. At one point she had to be taken to the hospital for some reason, and it took like 6 men to help get her out of the house.

 

Anyway, at the end of the week as we each said goodbye, she gave me a sort of blessing as thanks. She was Christian. I forgot what she whispered to me, but it was really helpful and personal. As we drove away, I experienced one of my first true heart openings and started crying quietly. That experience may have what got me on the spiritual path in the first place.

 

Maybe sometimes in the darkest places you can find the brightest light.

[gendao]

I've lived in the same projects that Tupac lived at in Marin City called the Jungle. I've lived in the hood in Oakland, CA. I've lived in the Tenderloin in San Francisco; Harlem, NY; Jamaica, Queens of 50 cent fame and Bedstuy, Brooklyn of J-Z and Biggie fame. You won't find much compassion in the hood unless you really know how to hold down that light and know how to shine it in a way with advanced awareness, but once they leave your presence, they'll be back to greedy, heartless and cold activities... for the most part and think that meeting you was just an Alien experience. Being shady is a full time job in the Ghetto and most hearts are closed and locked up due to having been hurt too many times. It's an extreme situation of lots of negativity with lots of "hungry ghosts" running around feeding the cravings of the suffering.

 

It's because they've all been taught that money is the root of all happiness instead of inner contemplation. There is nothing but scheming and social thinking going on in the hood. There isn't much "space" for a really deep thought with all the "Black Magic" that fly's around in the ghetto. Ghetto people are bonkers!! I know... I am one.

 

But, I live in a good area now, right across the street from the beginning of a ghetto, but at least not right inside of it.

I would not say they outnumber the gangsters, not that everyone is a gangsta in the hood. But, most of them are bitter and deeply into the "dark side" mentality.

 

There are definitely good and compassionate people in the ghetto, and from the ghetto who got out of the ghetto. But most, that doesn't mean all, but most older people in the ghetto are pretty bitter, or happily drunk.

Exactly. Most people in the hood are essentially "hungry ghosts" all chasing instant self-gratification - in the form of sex, drugs, bling, etc. And they will pursue all these things with cold-blooded, ruthless abandon. They don't care about their own well-being, much less yours..

 

We both know this because we've both actually lived in or near hoods for significant portions of our lives. Or you can always talk to someone who has actually grown up in one - and hear some of the most depraved stories that will melt your ears off...

 

But any sheltered yuppie liberal barricaded in his suburban fortress who truly believes that ghettos are "bastions of compassion" should put their money where their mouth is and "reverse White Flight" into one! What's stopping them? Shouldn't that be their ideal place to live? Cheap rent and overflowing with compassion? Perhaps the ideal Taoist village, even!

 

 

BTW, I am not saying that there are no compassionate people in the hood. I am objecting to the ludicrous hyperbole that they are the most compassionate locales in society (when the truth is far more the opposite). Sadly, that statement actually represents the raw ignorance and stubborn denialism that also runs rampant in the hood.

 

Sorry folks - as the DDJ says:

Truthful words are not beautiful;

Beautiful words are not truthful.

 

To be a true Taoist is to be honest, not beautiful... For only from truth can real solutions grow.

Edited September 13, 2010 by vortex

[LBDaoist]

You won't find much compassion in the hood unless you really know how to hold down that light and know how to shine it in a way with advanced awareness...

 

Can you expand on what you mean here? There are a lot of references in the translations that I have been reading that make reference to knowing when to let the light shine, versus knowing when to keep it hidden. The message that I have gotten from the reading seems to imply that letting the light shine at the wrong time can be harmful. My suspicion has always been that the cautions are there because the purity of the light can draw some seriously negative forces. Opposites attract and all that.

[goonis38]

HI all,

I was just writing this to another friend on here and thought someone might find this interesting...

 

 

So ok my friend's OBE... The first, and one and only time so far. I'm not giving up. I think, I found out so I try to hard now, also I seem to have two problems I will start thinking about something else for no reason, or I will fall asleep...lol So these are reasons for all my failures...

 

But when I maid it, first try. I just maid it simple because it is.

1. Lay on your back, don't move a muscle.

 

2. start to move the energy of your body, start at your toes and move to your head like a scanner in a movie. Up and down. It will go slowly at first, then it move a little faster. But all you need to be aware of is the difference between your spiritual feet and your own.

 

3. this whole time your eyes are closed by the way from the beginning of when you lay down.

 

4. Now meditate... Don't think of anything. Not yet.

 

5. Don't fall asleep in your mind, but in your body. This sounds strange. But there is a fine line. I understand some people go to bed at night, set the alarm, and wake up and then try and OBE. Because if you are to tired from work and what not. Well lights out right. I was told 4:00 wake up a half hour drink some coffee and then lay down about 4:30 and give it a try. Wow this is what I have been doing wrong. I'm such a ding bat. I will do this tonight, I have been to tired. Telling you is helping me...lol

 

6. We where meditating, now you should start to see those pictures in your head, or some see lights. I see pretty lights. Right before you fall asleep in your mind. Now pay attention to your body it will be vibrating just ever so lightly, like you are laying on one of those cheep motel beds...lol

 

7. you could of started this at the same time as the meditation or now. Pick a room. I pick my spar bedroom, but could be your friends room. One you have studied every single object. And in your mind start going around that room and imagine each object, tell you get all the way around. When you get done you should be standing in that room, in your mind of course.

 

8. So you have got to the point of vibration, standing in room. Now you go. I don't know how. Just go. Think about it. This is your exit point. This also is your safe spot. When you get frightened, you will come back to this room. Like a snail pulling itself in a shell, at least I did. I was a big baby...lol If I get another chance. I will try and at least talk to someone. They tryed to talk to me.

 

I'll tell you something else there are other people that have become really good at this. People even met each other over there. And yes I heard and know there are negative beings over there, just like in life. But from what I understand. And have been told, our defense is the vibration, so if you ever come in contact with something not friendly, start vibrating. It should bring you back to your room. A person a lot smarter than me explained all of this in a technical way. I have even seen a thread, on someone talking about it on here.

 

Our existance is on a different vibrational level, than theres. So this is why this is key to going in, and coming back. I was told to learn this well before I ever try going over there. As it is our only defense. I am not very good at it. So it is something, I need to practice while I meditate and stop thinking about something I shouldn't...

 

Ok everyone, please let me know what you think. If you have any pointers other than the great ones that have been given... This is how we learn, and I have a long way to go on that... Melanie

[goonis38]

Can you expand on what you mean here? There are a lot of references in the translations that I have been reading that make reference to knowing when to let the light shine, versus knowing when to keep it hidden. The message that I have gotten from the reading seems to imply that letting the light shine at the wrong time can be harmful. My suspicion has always been that the cautions are there because the purity of the light can draw some seriously negative forces. Opposites attract and all that.

 

Wow... I was just adding something to this thread and saw this... This is right... I us to do pendulum work, and have stopped for just this reason. We all or most, send A light straight up into the sky further than we can imagine. And when we activate that by opening our third eye, by what ever means you use to get it going.

 

It is like a mouth to a flame they come from long distances to you pretty quickly, negative energy type beings. I personally am a very positive person, happy, nice to others. We all have spirit guides... And this is what we want to talk to. But the problem is just what you are saying. That positive light draws the negatives... Mel

[Vajrahridaya]

Can you expand on what you mean here? There are a lot of references in the translations that I have been reading that make reference to knowing when to let the light shine, versus knowing when to keep it hidden. The message that I have gotten from the reading seems to imply that letting the light shine at the wrong time can be harmful. My suspicion has always been that the cautions are there because the purity of the light can draw some seriously negative forces. Opposites attract and all that.

 

That's exactly correct. But, at the same time, when you can shine the light at a particularly dark, and deeply hurt person with intuition and empathy, they experience healing around you or are uplifted for that time being instead of pressured or stressed out which a lot of light can do for a dark closet that doesn't want to see itself.

[LBDaoist]

Ok everyone, please let me know what you think. If you have any pointers other than the great ones that have been given... This is how we learn, and I have a long way to go on that... Melanie

 

It might be helpful to seek out people you have already met in real life. Seek out someone who you know is positive. For example, the other night I was thinking about a very positive girl I know who is very into energy healing. When I thought of her, I saw a vibrant trail of turqouise flashes of light.

[goonis38]

It might be helpful to seek out people you have already met in real life. Seek out someone who you know is positive. For example, the other night I was thinking about a very positive girl I know who is very into energy healing. When I thought of her, I saw a vibrant trail of turqouise flashes of light.

 

Hi,

You know it is funny you said this, I have been told I have a healing touch. I live in a very small town. Won't find many, if any people around here in the Bible belt to talk about these subjects...lol But that would be good maybe someday I will run into a person in my area that is a deep thinker...

Thanks... Mel

[LBDaoist]

Won't find many, if any people around here in the Bible belt to talk about these subjects...lol But that would be good maybe someday I will run into a person in my area that is a deep thinker...

Thanks... Mel

 

Before I began to study Taoist and Buddhist philosophy, I was very negative on Christianity. As I have seen Christianity practiced here in America, it always seemed very exclusive. The "born again" sects of church seem to develop a holier than thou attitude, an attitude of either being with them, or against them. Either a person has accepted Jesus, or they are cursed and going to hell.

 

About five or so years ago, someone made the comment to me that Jesus was a Buddha, an enlightened being. Around that time I was reading a lot about the degeneration of Chan Buddhism, and Taoism, and how the followers got so caught up in the ritual that they lost touch with the original intent of the teachings. I heard a saying that was attributed to Ghandi, "I like your Christ, but I am not fond of your Christians."

 

Since that time I have come to realize that at the root of Christianity is the same healing energy and path to enlightenment that underpins Buddhism and everything else. The problem is that the flock has been lead astray over the last two thousand years.

 

Christians understand Buddhism and Taoism, yet trying to speak to them in those terms hits a barrier. The church has warped the teachings of Jesus for their own purposes, and in doing so has excluded dialogue about God. I have never been a believer in God as an entity in the sky who has a place called heaven that we go to if we are "good people". However I fully believe that the God of the Bible is simply another manifestation of that which gives life to everything.

 

I realize I've gone off on a huge tangent here, so I'll try to get back on the path. You very well might have a lot more in common with your neighbors than you know. They all want to be healed and live a happy life. Although energy healing might be beyond though (even though I have heard tales of Jesus being able to heal with his hands), they can appreciate your energy. By cultivating your own light, you can show them possibility. Sooner or later, people will be curious and ask you things like "Why do you look so young? You always seem so positive, how do you do it?"

 

Just realize that Christianity has led them astray. Where as Buddhism teaches that everyone can be a buddha, Christianity convinces people that there was only ever one Christ (until "he" comes back again). By making Christ an exclusive figure and scorning anyone else who aspires to be like him, Christianity does a huge disservice to its followers. It robs them of their own power. It keeps them shackled to the church. Have compassion for them. In their hearts, they all need the same thing that you and I are seeking. In their own way, they are finding it.

[~jK~]

Vibrating - AKA 'Shaking' during meditation

 

 

I would assume that anyone experiencing the awakening phases of the Kundalini has experienced the shaking to some extent or the other.

 

For want of a better term I began calling them 'Risings' some years ago when I was having them and I still do have them but to a much lesser extent as well as less frequent.

 

From what I've read, the shaking is the energy released when a correct allignment is found in the kundalini.

 

To me the shaking is a bit like the release of sexual energy - very pleasurable although it is a little embarasing as the times it comes is a bit awkward ...

[Sunya]

Vibrating - AKA 'Shaking' during meditation

 

There is a difference between feeling subtle vibrations and the physical body literally shaking.

[Creation]

Edited September 16, 2010 by Creation

[Vajrahridaya]

 

"The old baby on the corner trick, eh?"

 

Oh man... I woke up my wife laughing... she's like, "shut up!"

[~jK~]

There is a difference between feeling subtle vibrations and the physical body literally shaking.

We are very happy that you are aware that there is a difference between feeling subtle vibrations and the physical body literally shaking.

Although it seems that you are implying that others are not of your level of arweness as to even the most 'subtle' of occurances with their own body.

 

ALL Hail Queen Bee Royal Jelly assigned to awareabilities for All !!!

 

Here's to hoping that you see the idiocy of my pointedlessnessassumptionednesspass as to we do you. Now to the nextus of who is the we?

 

Hey - I just found 2 stones that were all covered in black muck that when I scraped it off- one was what looks like a green crystaline garnet - the other is coming out as a double pointed clear crystal Herkimer diamond.

Presently it looks like this one.

http://www.lithosistoria.com/?tag=herkimer-diamond

Edited September 16, 2010 by ~jK~

[goldisheavy]

Well I am interested in any information you might have to give, if it's written in laymen's terms, and has some good evidence to back it up. More than discussions on taoist philosophy, I want to see instruction on training, a clearly defined goal for the practice, and some evidence that the training accomplishes it's stated goal.

 

I just don't see much of that anymore. Most books and teachers on the market are just full incomprehensible esoteric gibberish. I don't think the authors even know what they are writing about most of the time. I don't think most of the authors and teachers have accomplished enough to really be writing or teaching.

 

I just honestly question the point of all of it. What is the end goal? How many people practiced and reached the end goal? Is it effective?

 

End goal of what? You are not specific. I think the end goal of OBE is to have fun. There is no other goal to my mind. Why is that? Because beings you meet while OBE can be as ignorant and as annoying as any other. There is no guarantee of wisdom while out of body. At the same time, a human being can be very very wise. So OBE is no guarantee of wisdom and humanity is no guarantee of foolishness. So what's left? Fun. While OBE you can visit other countries, other lands, other people, other solar systems and other realms of existence. It is psychic tourism with the same benefits and drawbacks as the normal tourism we know.

 

Or perhaps you mean things like alchemy or enlightenment.

 

Alchemy, most of the time, is a practice that's aimed at changing one's experience in a significant way. For example it can change how the body feels and it can change what you can do with the body (which is also an experience). Sometimes alchemy is a practice that's actually aimed at getting rich quick. The idea is to literally take some junk metal and to turn it into gold as a "get rich quick" scheme. Supposedly there have been some Daoists who could do that in the past, according to legends. Can you find proof of this kind of ability today? What are you yourself like? Are you a typical physicalist kind of guy? Then the answer is probably no, you cannot find any evidence of such things.

 

And enlightenment is just easy. Enlightenment is the development of wisdom to an unusually rarified degree. What's the point of being wise? I hope that's self-explanatory.

 

You can get all of the answers yourself by trying things, by using reason, and by being patient and attentive. Then write your own book and share what you've learned.

[johndoe2012]

More PIe Guy, Daniel Ingram has your exact same attitude in most ways and his book and forum has been incredibly sucessful in leading people to the first levels of budhist enlightenment and quite a bit beyond that as well. Vipassana done according to good maps is VERY fast. If you want to maximize your chances of escaping rebirth what I would do is this: PRacticing Vipassana accroding to Ingrams principples like your hair is on fire and combine it with some energywork you have faith in. Use that to get a fairly high level of attainment. THen go find the most enlightened Tibetan Lamas you can dig up. Once you already have a high level of realization they will teach you the most high level stuff. If you start out from the beginning you will have to wait in line for this sort of teaching for VERY long and might not have time to get there.

 

Vipassana coupled with tai chi and qigong, I will try, let's see it's a explosive cocktail.

 

The more and more I practise, the more I seem to believe in karma or whatever you would call it. How come some people get to enlightenment or wild results pretty fast compared to others?

 

The monkey mind also has a certain fault in this I would say, it cannot stop talking all the time...

 

Will enlightenment or wild experiences change anything? Will it really stop rebirth whatever that means anyway? According the Seth Speaks we are here on Earth training for some purposes and the escape is quite difficult.