OBE

[goonis38]

Sorry I had forgotten about this thread, hadn't been checking it lately. I don't have much time for the bums anymore, seems mostly nothing really interests me here anymore. I check over the topics to see if any new important developments or teachers have surfaced but other than that I don't read a whole lot on here anymore.

 

Anyway...

 

It really doesn't matter what the end goal of a practice is, just that it is clearly defined, and clear instruction is given on how to get there.

 

Most of what is on the market doesn't work like that, it is discussion on historical, cultural, academic, philosophical and religious what not, and no real goal is stated, and no real training information is given.

 

I want to find teachers who have actually accomplished something. John chang (mo pai), and wim hof (tummo) are good examples of that. I want a system that actually does something, and I want actual instruction on how to do it. Most of what is available on the market doesn't meet that criteria, it's just philosophical bantering.

 

 

 

 

goldisheavy, on 16 September 2010 - 05:58 AM, said:

 

End goal of what? You are not specific. I think the end goal of OBE is to have fun. There is no other goal to my mind. Why is that? Because beings you meet while OBE can be as ignorant and as annoying as any other. There is no guarantee of wisdom while out of body. At the same time, a human being can be very very wise. So OBE is no guarantee of wisdom and humanity is no guarantee of foolishness. So what's left? Fun. While OBE you can visit other countries, other lands, other people, other solar systems and other realms of existence. It is psychic tourism with the same benefits and drawbacks as the normal tourism we know.

 

Or perhaps you mean things like alchemy or enlightenment.

 

I think that is so right I have only got to go on two really quick trips and didn't get far. I meet two people and they where just like anyone you see on the street...

 

But I know this goes a lot deeper. I have had people who are way more advanced come see me. And that can be interesting... I have also been told about traveling like you say, this would be so fun...

 

I also know there are higher beings you can come in contact with, that Gong could serve as a protection, or some say going into a vibrational state will offer protection...

Melanie

Edited October 15, 2010 by goonis38

[goldisheavy]

goldisheavy, on 16 September 2010 - 05:58 AM, said:

 

End goal of what? You are not specific. I think the end goal of OBE is to have fun. There is no other goal to my mind. Why is that? Because beings you meet while OBE can be as ignorant and as annoying as any other. There is no guarantee of wisdom while out of body. At the same time, a human being can be very very wise. So OBE is no guarantee of wisdom and humanity is no guarantee of foolishness. So what's left? Fun. While OBE you can visit other countries, other lands, other people, other solar systems and other realms of existence. It is psychic tourism with the same benefits and drawbacks as the normal tourism we know.

 

Or perhaps you mean things like alchemy or enlightenment.

 

I think that is so right I have only got to go on two really quick trips and didn't get far. I meet two people and they where just like anyone you see on the street...

 

But I know this goes a lot deeper. I have had people who are way more advanced come see me. And that can be interesting... I have also been told about traveling like you say, this would be so fun...

 

I also know there are higher beings you can come in contact with, that Gong could serve as a protection, or some say going into a vibrational state will offer protection...

Melanie

 

The one time I got out for an OBE, I first met a scary ghost, which I dispatched by sending it love. Then I began twirling around and I woke up as some kind of homeless man (not me as I know myself). That was strange. First I was just myself and suddenly I was another guy in a strange city. I was laying on the bench and feeling peaceful. I spent about 10-20 seconds as this other guy and then I woke up/came to back in my room, in my dead corpse meditation posture I was using.

 

I thought that the OBE was definitely interesting and somewhat mind-opening, considering I became a different man for a short while, but nonetheless I didn't feel compelled to pursue it further. It required a lot of practice just to get out that once, and I felt the rewards didn't justify the effort at the time. I wasn't interested in tourism anyway and after hanging out in the astral plane, I got a strong impression that I won't be meeting anyone more enlightened than myself that way.

 

I had a lot of questions and curiosity about my regular life in my usual body to be dabbling with a life away from my body. It's a very cool ability though and I can't say I'll never want to try it again.

[goldisheavy]

Sorry I had forgotten about this thread, hadn't been checking it lately. I don't have much time for the bums anymore, seems mostly nothing really interests me here anymore. I check over the topics to see if any new important developments or teachers have surfaced but other than that I don't read a whole lot on here anymore.

 

Anyway...

 

It really doesn't matter what the end goal of a practice is, just that it is clearly defined, and clear instruction is given on how to get there.

 

Most of what is on the market doesn't work like that, it is discussion on historical, cultural, academic, philosophical and religious what not, and no real goal is stated, and no real training information is given.

 

I want to find teachers who have actually accomplished something. John chang (mo pai), and wim hof (tummo) are good examples of that. I want a system that actually does something, and I want actual instruction on how to do it. Most of what is available on the market doesn't meet that criteria, it's just philosophical bantering.

 

Yea, I hear you More Pie Guy. Have you thought about sending Wim Hof a letter/email, or trying to track him down? You seem very sincere and interested. Maybe he'll talk to you. It seems like you really want an impressive teacher. At first I thought you should just train on your own, but if you keep having persistent thought about a teacher, maybe you should save all your money and begin a search in earnest. Try to track one of these famous guys and see what you get.

 

I do worry you might get disappointment before you find something satisfactory.

 

Tummo is not that complicated. It's very boring and time consuming though. You can expect to spend years on it to get really good at it. I used to practice warming my hands up in the winter using my mind, and I was fairly successful but it was hard work, and the success was never instant, and plus what would often happen is that I couldn't keep both hands covered in heat consistently. I would thaw the left hand, and the right one would freeze. I would then unfreeze the right hand but as I did that, the left one would freeze. My heat focus was too narrow and I found that when I made it wider it also got less powerful. So I felt like if I just had the patience to do it for a few years, I could get a nearly perfect control of it. But then I asked myself, why? Siddhis like that are cool and they can even by life saving sometimes, but I am after wisdom first of all. When I am satisfied with my level of wisdom, I will spend more time developing unusual abilities.

Edited October 17, 2010 by goldisheavy

[Thunder_Gooch]

Wisdom is a good goal, I'd like to be wise one day

 

Truth be told I really do find Robert's system of energy work to be one of the most advanced, and down to earth no bs training manuals I've found anywhere.

 

I've got a bunch of different practices right now, I hope to work with them and maybe in a few years new information or teachers will surface, and I will be at a cultivated enough to be worthy of becoming their student.

 

Right now though my foremost priority in life isn't training, it's working full time. I am burning both ends of the candle at the moment. I work a day job, and come home to hours of computer repair work each night. I hope to save enough to buy 1 acre of property soon. I plan on getting a camper, and a metal roof over it, a well, and a septic tank. I want to have a minimum standard of living, and then go to work part time to support that lifestyle. I hope at that point I can focus more on training.

 

 

 

Yea, I hear you More Pie Guy. Have you thought about sending Vim Hoff a letter/email, or trying to track him down? You seem very sincere and interested. Maybe he'll talk to you. It seems like you really want an impressive teacher. At first I thought you should just train on your own, but if you keep having persistent thought about a teacher, maybe you should save all your money and begin a search in earnest. Try to track one of these famous guys and see what you get.

 

I do worry you might get disappointment before you find something satisfactory.

 

Tummo is not that complicated. It's very boring and time consuming though. You can expect to spend years on it to get really good at it. I used to practice warming my hands up in the winter using my mind, and I was fairly successful but it was hard work, and the success was never instant, and plus what would often happen is that I couldn't keep both hands covered in heat consistently. I would thaw the left hand, and the right one would freeze. I would then unfreeze the right hand but as I did that, the left one would freeze. My heat focus was too narrow and I found that when I made it wider it also got less powerful. So I felt like if I just had the patience to do it for a few years, I could get a nearly perfect control of it. But then I asked myself, why? Siddhis like that are cool and they can even by life saving sometimes, but I am after wisdom first of all. When I am satisfied with my level of wisdom, I will spend more time developing unusual abilities.

[goldisheavy]

Wisdom is a good goal, I'd like to be wise one day

 

Yea, me too.

 

Truth be told I really do find Robert's system of energy work to be one of the most advanced, and down to earth no bs training manuals I've found anywhere.

 

Sounds interesting. I guess it's obvious to everyone except me, but who is Robert? What system are you talking about? I am curious, because you seem like a no-nonsense person, and whatever interests you seems interesting to me too.

 

I've got a bunch of different practices right now, I hope to work with them and maybe in a few years new information or teachers will surface, and I will be at a cultivated enough to be worthy of becoming their student.

 

Right now though my foremost priority in life isn't training, it's working full time. I am burning both ends of the candle at the moment. I work a day job, and come home to hours of computer repair work each night. I hope to save enough to buy 1 acre of property soon. I plan on getting a camper, and a metal roof over it, a well, and a septic tank. I want to have a minimum standard of living, and then go to work part time to support that lifestyle. I hope at that point I can focus more on training.

 

Yup. It is sad things can be tough sometimes. I don't think we always deserve this kind of situation. I hope you realize all your best and highest dreams in this life.

[goonis38]

The one time I got out for an OBE, I first met a scary ghost, which I dispatched by sending it love. Then I began twirling around and I woke up as some kind of homeless man (not me as I know myself). That was strange. First I was just myself and suddenly I was another guy in a strange city. I was laying on the bench and feeling peaceful. I spent about 10-20 seconds as this other guy and then I woke up/came to back in my room, in my dead corpse meditation posture I was using.

 

I thought that the OBE was definitely interesting and somewhat mind-opening, considering I became a different man for a short while, but nonetheless I didn't feel compelled to pursue it further. It required a lot of practice just to get out that once, and I felt the rewards didn't justify the effort at the time. I wasn't interested in tourism anyway and after hanging out in the astral plane, I got a strong impression that I won't be meeting anyone more enlightened than myself that way.

 

I had a lot of questions and curiosity about my regular life in my usual body to be dabbling with a life away from my body. It's a very cool ability though and I can't say I'll never want to try it again.

 

Wow... You became another person... Everyone says something else. I was told to find a mirror and look at your self, and that you look better in OBE... You have a bright light that really shows, some are brighter than others. Someone said something about your feet and hands look different. I was never in long enough to find out...

 

The thing is there are very high being over there. But I don't know what is what. Something you need someone who knows more before you go looking I guess.

 

Maybe that is why, I keeped from it now, not ready...

Thanks for the reply Melanie

[Thunder_Gooch]

Yea, me too.

 

 

 

Sounds interesting. I guess it's obvious to everyone except me, but who is Robert? What system are you talking about? I am curious, because you seem like a no-nonsense person, and whatever interests you seems interesting to me too.

 

 

 

Yup. It is sad things can be tough sometimes. I don't think we always deserve this kind of situation. I hope you realize all your best and highest dreams in this life.

 

Hi I was referring to robert bruce of author of astral dynamics and energy work. I also hope you realize your dreams

[Thunder_Gooch]

Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi. But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi.

[goldisheavy]

Hi gold, Your comments remind me of what Ya Mu says. Without raising one's energy body, OOB experiences will only happen in the lower astral realms. In his qigong system, practitioners are able to have high level experiences in dreamtime. In his book, he writes about his experiences with higher beings. Pretty amazing.

 

This has very little to do with energy body actually and everything to do with intent. I intended to enter into this physical world with a spirit body. Which is exactly what I did. When I OBE'd, I was in my room, floating above my physical body in the beginning. It would be really dumb to pick up a cup and then act surprised you ended up with a cup in your hand, given you intended to pick up a cup in the first place.

 

And your note on tummo. Ya Mu's system can significantly shorten the amount of time a practitioner takes to raise the energy body. As a beginner to his system, I've found it to deliver. AND, not to be boring at all.

 

Yea, maybe "boring" is not the right word. I just meant it's a lot less exciting and exotic than some people think. It's just doing something over and over. It's like any other training. Are pull-ups boring? Well, if you want to get good at them, you might need to do say 20 pullups 3 times a week = 60 a week * say 50 weeks, that's 3000 pullups a year, and you need to do it for about 2 years, so that's 6000 pull ups. Well, tummo practice is exactly like that, only even more so. Whether it's boring or not depends on your disposition. It's was cool when I succeeded for the first time and my stiff cold hand became warm and soft, without any prickling or burning sensations. I was making sure I wasn't walking too fast and I wasn't swinging my arms much and definitely not trying to flex my hands to make sure it's the mind that's doing the work and not the body. Of course I could have just rubbed my hands together and jumped around to raise my temperature. That would achieve the same effect but would be less interesting. I did this for a while, but my interest in this activity dropped like a rock after the first time. I was thinking, "Yea, I get it. It can be done. With more practice you can get better at it. I am not getting any wiser from this." I remember I discovered a different kind of tummo too, something much higher level than just warming the body. At one point I thought, why should I warm the body at all? Why not just warm the weather. And that worked too, perception-wise, which is all I cared about.

[goldisheavy]

I agree with you that lower astral level OOB experiences have to do with intending them to happen. But I believe that if one wants the higher level experiences, one has to work to achieve that. That takes practice (of a good caliber) + intent.

 

Sure. I had to work to achieve my one OBE too. I wanted to see if I could roam around the city I lived in, but the experience didn't turn out that way. There were a number of surprises. Intent is influence, not control.

[z00se]

I remember I discovered a different kind of tummo too, something much higher level than just warming the body. At one point I thought, why should I warm the body at all? Why not just warm the weather. And that worked too, perception-wise, which is all I cared about.

 

Haha yeah that is very right and very cool.

[z00se]

I had a cool OBE.

 

I was working while meditating at the same time at a meat factory before i could get a decent job. Someone at work has been acting weirdly around me and didn't like me for some reason. They had some hostility to me but didn't directly act badly towards me. Anyhow i shot up my astral body and came into contact with his higher body on purpose. It was aggressive and trying to overpower my astral body me. I pulled up earth energy, making my astral body more heavy and physical strengthening it, as well as attracting more star energy to it too. With the added size, strength and energy of my astral body I forced his astral body to retreat and it recoiled (yet i wasn't nasty or anything). Then he (in real life) after that took a wider berth around me, treated me with more respect and wasn't hostile any more. The astral affected the physical in a very real way. The whole thing only took about 5 mins or so and i did it while we were both working. I have to be practicing regularly and be in the zone to do this kind of thing but yeah it definately works.

 

When you can learn to do it, it makes life more fun. It's whole. You can use your mind to affect your environment in very strong and real ways.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I had a cool OBE.

 

I was working while meditating at the same time at a meat factory before i could get a decent job. Someone at work has been acting weirdly around me and didn't like me for some reason. They had some hostility to me but didn't directly act badly towards me. Anyhow i shot up my astral body and came into contact with his higher body on purpose. It was aggressive and trying to overpower my astral body me. I pulled up earth energy, making my astral body more heavy and physical strengthening it, as well as attracting more star energy to it too. With the added size, strength and energy of my astral body I forced his astral body to retreat and it recoiled (yet i wasn't nasty or anything). Then he (in real life) after that took a wider berth around me, treated me with more respect and wasn't hostile any more. The astral affected the physical in a very real way. The whole thing only took about 5 mins or so and i did it while we were both working. I have to be practicing regularly and be in the zone to do this kind of thing but yeah it definately works.

 

When you can learn to do it, it makes life more fun. It's whole. You can use your mind to affect your environment in very strong and real ways.

 

Interesting stuff, z00se! What did you learn/how did you practice to be able to get to this point?

[z00se]

Interesting stuff, z00se! What did you learn/how did you practice to be able to get to this point?

 

Just mantak chia's stuff from books. Thats all. The more you practice the more you can apply it, just look outside the square.

 

Nothing beats intense practice though. Thats the only way to learn. Then you need chance to apply it in your real life and that takes time. Thats where benefit comes from. Even if you are the ultimate buddah at home meditating in a room. It is all useless unless you can make use of it in your daily life.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Just mantak chia's stuff from books. Thats all. The more you practice the more you can apply it, just look outside the square.

 

Nothing beats intense practice though. Thats the only way to learn. Then you need chance to apply it in your real life and that takes time. Thats where benefit comes from. Even if you are the ultimate buddah at home meditating in a room. It is all useless unless you can make use of it in your daily life.

 

Mantak Chia's got a lot of material. Any specifics? Microcosmic orbit? Iron shirt? Fusion of five elements?

[z00se]

Mantak Chia's got a lot of material. Any specifics? Microcosmic orbit? Iron shirt? Fusion of five elements?

 

Well you've at least got to be getting to the level where you are using your energy body. If you can't do the Microcosmic orbit you've probably got a long way to go. Iron shirt is good but i don't think it's directly going to help with OBE's, although it would in a roundabout way. Really once you've got to the 2nd fusion level, the one after fusion of the 5 elements (forgot what it's called... at work at the moment) OBEs are easy.

 

There are other ways to do it and have OBEs easier i'm sure, but Mantak chia's stuff lets you have more control in your OBE experience.

 

But thats for OBE's and since you spend most of your daily life in your body it's probably more useful to spend more time doing iron shirt and the MCO. In my opinion.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well you've at least got to be getting to the level where you are using your energy body. If you can't do the Microcosmic orbit you've probably got a long way to go. Iron shirt is good but i don't think it's directly going to help with OBE's, although it would in a roundabout way. Really once you've got to the 2nd fusion level, the one after fusion of the 5 elements (forgot what it's called... at work at the moment) OBEs are easy.

 

There are other ways to do it and have OBEs easier i'm sure, but Mantak chia's stuff lets you have more control in your OBE experience.

 

But thats for OBE's and since you spend most of your daily life in your body it's probably more useful to spend more time doing iron shirt and the MCO. In my opinion.

 

I see, thanks for the suggestions

[goonis38]

Hi gold, Your comments remind me of what Ya Mu says. Without raising one's energy body, OOB experiences will ony happen in the lower astral realms. In his qigong system, practitioners are able to have high level experiences in dreamtime. In his book, he writes about his experiences with higher beings. Pretty amazing.

 

And your note on tummo. Ya Mu's system can significantly shorten the amount of time a practitioner takes to raise the energy body. As a beginner to his system, I've found it to deliver. AND, not to be boring at all.

 

 

Hey there,

I know that I started going to the astral plain and OBEing by myself without trying. And communicated with some higher beings. If you consider a Fallen Angel Higher... I also talked to people that looked just like anyone one the street... That really didn't have much to say...

As for taking years to become good at something... I think it just depends on the person. One person could try and try, and never get any where. And yet another could just go without any effort at all.

I knew nothing of any of this. I was being drawn toward my place in life... I was to be. Have a long way to go... But am going just the same...

Melanie

 

 

goldisheavy, on 16 October 2010 - 01:46 AM, said:

 

Tummo is not that complicated. It's very boring and time consuming though. You can expect to spend years on it to get really good at it.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Maybe this is OT but here goes:

how do you guys feel while in an OBE? Any sensations afterwards?

I mean either physical or emotional.

 

Had my first OBE, "spontaneously", some time ago, while wide awake:

 

Accidentally walked off a roof some 7meters up in the air, the moment i felt the void and the plunge i saw myself from the outside, hardly recognized myself at first, and looked at myself falling and thought "i die now." and then almost immediately "No, wait, i'll be paralyzed." Then i got pulled back into my body as it curled up to a fetal position, and instantly hit a roof section three meters below and broke my leg with a loud cracking sound. Dreadful experience.

 

Strangest thing was i wasn't scared or excited or anything, there was almost no emotion whatsoever, just these inner monolouge statements. Funny thing is it all happened in slow motion, i swear it felt like minutes before i hit the roof below. I cant really say if the world around me looked like the physical place i was at since the focus was so strong on the falling body in front of me, all i can remember clearly of my surroundings was the backdrop of the brick wall, and some external light source on the far right that wasn't there post-impact.

Think i was in a state of schock when i came to a few seconds later and the pain hit. Heat, sweat, coldness, stiffness, spaghetti-limbs, all these things going in cycles for about 40 minutes.

 

I've heard it's not uncommon with NDE's and the like.

I do not recommend this practice for OBEs, ( ) falling from a height towards uncertain landing was traumatizing and the following nights i re-lived the fall as i was drifting towards sleep. Not as an OBE, but as a physical memory with all the fear of death and pain, lasted mere instants, much like the time i must have spent falling in the physical.

[goonis38]

Hi there,

I am so sorry that was so scary. I am sure. I bet you jump while your falling asleep, don't you? I do that sometime and I have never fallen.

I wonder about this. Do you think you might of been saved, by your Angel? This is not a typical story of an OBE. But just the same we are talking about something that is very new, and we don't know much about it yet...

I am so glad you weren't hurt worse... Thank the good Lord... Wasn't your time to leave this Earth. I was in near fatal car accident, and was saved, I know... Wasn't my time. Things do slow down...

 

But hey to answer your question. I have only been on two and they weren't for long. i talked to some people on the astral plain. But i was scared back to my safe room pretty fast. But i had no physical effects on my body afterwards. Besides the excitement of wow, I did it...

Take care of your self Melanie

 

Maybe this is OT but here goes:

how do you guys feel while in an OBE? Any sensations afterwards?

I mean either physical or emotional.

 

Had my first OBE, "spontaneously", some time ago, while wide awake:

 

Accidentally walked off a roof some 7meters up in the air, the moment i felt the void and the plunge i saw myself from the outside, hardly recognized myself at first, and looked at myself falling and thought "i die now." and then almost immediately "No, wait, i'll be paralyzed." Then i got pulled back into my body as it curled up to a fetal position, and instantly hit a roof section three meters below and broke my leg with a loud cracking sound. Dreadful experience.

 

Strangest thing was i wasn't scared or excited or anything, there was almost no emotion whatsoever, just these inner monolouge statements. Funny thing is it all happened in slow motion, i swear it felt like minutes before i hit the roof below. I cant really say if the world around me looked like the physical place i was at since the focus was so strong on the falling body in front of me, all i can remember clearly of my surroundings was the backdrop of the brick wall, and some external light source on the far right that wasn't there post-impact.

Think i was in a state of schock when i came to a few seconds later and the pain hit. Heat, sweat, coldness, stiffness, spaghetti-limbs, all these things going in cycles for about 40 minutes.

 

I've heard it's not uncommon with NDE's and the like.

I do not recommend this practice for OBEs, ( ) falling from a height towards uncertain landing was traumatizing and the following nights i re-lived the fall as i was drifting towards sleep. Not as an OBE, but as a physical memory with all the fear of death and pain, lasted mere instants, much like the time i must have spent falling in the physical.