OBE

[goonis38]

You know what's a more dangerous attachment? The self. Fearing that some demon is going to steal your body or your soul. That's much more dangerous.

 

Nobody can hurt who you truly are. Once you recognize your true nature, which is beyond any names, concepts, boundaries, then there is nothing to worry about. You only had that experience because you cling to self and fear arose. Should've radiated compassion and the demon (most likely just your subconscious projection) would've been pacified.

 

Exploration without wisdom is dangerous because you can become even more deluded. Prime example of why I said earlier in this thread that OBE is just ego food.

 

Thank you Sunya

I think you all have sound advise... I appreciate it, and am listening to you all. That is nice of you to take the time...

Your friend Mel

[LBDaoist]

Hey - I got the web all to myself !

MeThinks you is just beginning to learn to play with toys

 

I was wondering when I got lost and moved to China. Now it makes sense. Funny how the mind can run things together.

[goonis38]

I was wondering when I got lost and moved to China. Now it makes sense. Funny how the mind can run things together.

 

Hi again,

I didn't see what i did, tell just now. I was like what? And I scrolled up and looked and I replyed to you two in the same post... Sorry wasn't trying to be confusing. But I sure can see how it was...

 

Well.. you know we all want to run off to China with JK, lucky dog...

Mel

Edited September 11, 2010 by goonis38

[Thunder_Gooch]

I think several people have probably developed a temporary nondualistic state of awareness from meditating, but I am really not so sure if that is what I am looking for, or even what I define to be enlightenment. It seems like a traumatic brain injury or death of the physical body probably would undo that state of awareness, hence it isn't a permanent attainment.

 

I live everyday with the knowledge I will die, and my base awareness may begin a new dream in a reality similar to this one. I want to rise above that cycle altogether, and only a handful of practices seem to promise that, via an energetic route.

 

I like Robert's system to me it seems like you are feeding and strengthening the inner body preparing for an exit, and I think it might be relevant to my goals. I also think being out of body gives you access to tons of knowledge and experiences you couldn't otherwise attain.

 

 

 

Depends what you mean by "work" and what their goals are. Most people don't actually want enlightenment so they don't properly apply the practices. There's nothing wrong with the practices

 

 

 

I know many very realized beings who practice Vajrayana, Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Vipassana, and other serious methods. I think you hang out with the wrong crowd. Your friend needs a better teacher. Tell him to get in contact with the folks at Dharma Overground.

 

 

 

Results are good, but what kind of results? Real results on the path are those of getting rid of delusion, having insights about your true nature, and letting go of false concepts and beliefs. Having fantastical journeys and talking to aliens is ego food and spiritual entrapment. There is no need to seek spiritual masters elsewhere. There are plenty here. There are SO many highly realized beings on Earth today, but they do not talk about OBEs or energy or anything of the like. They talk about no-self, nondual awareness and presence, compassion, and being here now (not in la-la land wishing for a noncorporeal being to tell you to study your own mind).

 

Problem is, if you only hang out on forums like this or Astral Dynamics then will get this idea about spirituality being about energy and health and having wild experiences. That's a joke. All of that is just self-affirming fantasy. If you want to get real you'll start doing serious practices like vipassana and find a realized guide to help you. The Dharma Overground forum and Kenneth Folk's forum are both filled with people who are attaining real results and gaining true insights.

 

Daniel Ingram is probably the first person who has went public with his experiences and insights and claimed enlightenment. This is a taboo thing in Buddhism and he thinks more enlightened people should go public to show that the methods work. He wasn't on the news though, nobody cares about this stuff. "HEADLINE: Meditator realizes the emptiness of all self and phenomena" lol

[goonis38]

I think several people have probably developed a temporary nondualistic state of awareness from meditating, but I am really not so sure if that is what I am looking for, or even what I define to be enlightenment. It seems like a traumatic brain injury or death of the physical body probably would undo that state of awareness, hence it isn't a permanent attainment.

 

I live everyday with the knowledge I will die, and my base awareness may begin a new dream in a reality similar to this one. I want to rise above that cycle altogether, and only a handful of practices seem to promise that, via an energetic route.

 

I like Robert's system to me it seems like you are feeding and strengthening the inner body preparing for an exit, and I think it might be relevant to my goals. I also think being out of body gives you access to tons of knowledge and experiences you couldn't otherwise attain.

 

Hi...

I think it is a brave to exit your body as you say. And I know people have mentioned the ego being involved. I feel it's just the opposite. I think a person full of them self, and ego. Would never chance leaving there body. So I think it's just the opposite, myself...

 

This is just a suit, or body's we wear every day. Some day we will zip it off. And be in our spiritual skin. Why not take a walk in it now...

Lots of love Mel

[LBDaoist]

Hi...

I think it is a brave to exit your body as you say. And I know people have mentioned the ego being involved. I feel it's just the opposite. I think a person full of them self, and ego. Would never chance leaving there body. So I think it's just the opposite, myself...

 

This is just a suit, or body's we wear every day. Some day we will zip it off. And be in our spiritual skin. Why not take a walk in it now...

Lots of love Mel

 

I tried to quote both of you, but got one. Anyway. From what I've read and what makes sense to me in my own practice, I am developing an inner child. A "qi baby" as I have heard it referred to. Through relaxation, meditation and clearing the mind, it becomes possible to tune into the rhythm of the body... the subtle little ticks and muscle spasms, the qi flowing through the body. With conscious effort on breathing, those ticks and spasms can be smoothed out and calmed. With enough repetition and enough focus devoted to the practice, the energy begins to come together in the dan tian (or where ever one lets the mind linger).

 

Leaving the body seems to be a stage. I truly believe that attempting to do anything during the practice, or reaching for phenomena, leads us down the wrong path. The phenomena come on their own, they are simply byproducts of the process. Having said that, I should clarify that such things are not necessarily bad. The striving for them and wanting them is bad. If the practice has reached the level where they happen, and a person finds themselves inclined to do them, then by all means explore.

 

The time that I left my body, I was allowing the qi to flow and simply watching it. Rather than focusing on small cycle, or focusing on breathing or my posture or anything... I was simply letting go.

 

It seems to be a widely held belief that our spirits are simply borrowing our bodies, and once the body stops functioning, the spirit will continue to exist.

[idquest]

This is just a suit, or body's we wear every day. Some day we will zip it off. And be in our spiritual skin. Why not take a walk in it now...

This is so NOT taoist (or at least how I understand taoism)

[LBDaoist]

This is so NOT taoist (or at least how I understand taoism)

 

It seems more Buddhist to me. What do you think?

 

Since you said it is not Taoist, what about it goes against Taoism?

[Pablo]

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I think several people have probably developed a temporary nondualistic state of awareness from meditating, but I am really not so sure if that is what I am looking for, or even what I define to be enlightenment. It seems like a traumatic brain injury or death of the physical body probably would undo that state of awareness, hence it isn't a permanent attainment.

 

I live everyday with the knowledge I will die, and my base awareness may begin a new dream in a reality similar to this one. I want to rise above that cycle altogether, and only a handful of practices seem to promise that, via an energetic route.

 

I like Robert's system to me it seems like you are feeding and strengthening the inner body preparing for an exit, and I think it might be relevant to my goals. I also think being out of body gives you access to tons of knowledge and experiences you couldn't otherwise attain.

 

 

You seem to be betting on developing energetic attainments and powers as your path of the Wheel of Rebirth. You actually scoff at spiritual paths that offer real spiritual development, which as a consequence makes one a better human being. I wonder why you think you are here on Earth and subject to the Life here you detest so much.

 

So, why are we all subject to rebirth? Is it possible we are here to learn lessons? In real transcendence, one actually transcends life here on earth. You simply are desperate to escape the abhorrent circumstances that come with living in a body on the physical plane and having anything to do with the fellow human beings who disgust you so much. I point out that you are not after transcendence, but escape. And the rules of rebirth are such that you will not be allowed to escape until you no longer seek it, and are able to love life fully and feel love and compassion for your fellow beings. A transcended being can live in the most extreme negative environment, a slum in Mumbai or in Mexico City, and remain radiant, loving and blissful. Feeling life's pain and the pain of others and transcending it. Sorry to inform you of this. One does not get to escape even if you can travel OBE, heal people, or light things on fire with just the chi in your hands, if you are still attached to your revulsion at being alive.

 

So to put down 'meditating', or Buddhism as so much wimpy trollop without remaining open to the possibility that transcendence and enlightenment has nothing necessarily to do with magic siddhis and powers, is utter folly. And someone who believes as you do, that rejects everything about the circumstances of being alive, neglects to see that this is precisely the reason you are here.

Edited September 11, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[goonis38]

I tried to quote both of you, but got one. Anyway. From what I've read and what makes sense to me in my own practice, I am developing an inner child. A "qi baby" as I have heard it referred to. Through relaxation, meditation and clearing the mind, it becomes possible to tune into the rhythm of the body... the subtle little ticks and muscle spasms, the qi flowing through the body. With conscious effort on breathing, those ticks and spasms can be smoothed out and calmed. With enough repetition and enough focus devoted to the practice, the energy begins to come together in the dan tian (or where ever one lets the mind linger).

 

Leaving the body seems to be a stage. I truly believe that attempting to do anything during the practice, or reaching for phenomena, leads us down the wrong path. The phenomena come on their own, they are simply byproducts of the process. Having said that, I should clarify that such things are not necessarily bad. The striving for them and wanting them is bad. If the practice has reached the level where they happen, and a person finds themselves inclined to do them, then by all means explore.

 

The time that I left my body, I was allowing the qi to flow and simply watching it. Rather than focusing on small cycle, or focusing on breathing or my posture or anything... I was simply letting go.

 

It seems to be a widely held belief that our spirits are simply borrowing our bodies, and once the body stops functioning, the spirit will continue to exist.

 

Hey,

I agree with everything you said... We are just borrowing this ol body... That is my zip this suit off analogy, and take a walk in the spirit...

 

That is what i pretty much do. What you are talking about, But I do it while laying on my back, not moving a muscle is harder than it sounds isn't it...lol And also meditating on one thing is also harder than it sounds. It's funny some of the things that sound easy, are hard. And some of the things that sound hard, are easy. So I have been really been developing my inner child?... I believe that.

 

Like I have said a many of times, my body was doing things on it's own way before I was trying to find out what it was. I believe this just to be a developmental stage for me. As far as contacting spirits and things. That is something that comes natural also. Not something I try to achieve... We are born how we are... And God gave us a brain to look into things. And gifts, He has given each of us. I don't look at anything with a negative mind. I am a positive person. Full of love and peace...

 

Take care Melanie

[goonis38]

[Birch]

"A transcended being can live in the most extreme negative environment, a slum in Mumbai or in Mexico City, and remain radiant, loving and blissful. Feeling life's pain and the pain of others and transcending it."

 

Um- I'm not so sure that some people are ready to explore the idea (at least, just the idea) that their outward circumstances may have little to do with their own satisfaction and/or circumstances.

 

I am personally grateful that I live in neither Mumbai nor Mexico City. For lots of reasons - few of them are "transcendental".

 

Of course I'm often wrong. Do you/have you lived there?

[goonis38]

"A transcended being can live in the most extreme negative environment, a slum in Mumbai or in Mexico City, and remain radiant, loving and blissful. Feeling life's pain and the pain of others and transcending it."

 

Um- I'm not so sure that some people are ready to explore the idea (at least, just the idea) that their outward circumstances may have little to do with their own satisfaction and/or circumstances.

 

I am personally grateful that I live in neither Mumbai nor Mexico City. For lots of reasons - few of them are "transcendental".

 

Of course I'm often wrong. Do you/have you lived there?

 

Hi Kate,

I know you aren't addressing me, I was just reading that post myself. Trying to think of how to respond... So thanks for the help. That had me scratching my head on that one...

Ok take care my friend Mel

[Thunder_Gooch]

I don't know why we are here, or if we are even here at all.

 

I define transcendence as never being reborn. I don't see how attaining non-dualistic awareness is really even related to ending rebirth.

 

 

 

You seem to be betting on developing energetic attainments and powers as your path of the Wheel of Rebirth. You actually scoff at spiritual paths that offer real spiritual development, which as a consequence makes one a better human being. I wonder why you think you are here on Earth and subject to the Life here you detest so much.

 

So, why are we all subject to rebirth? Is it possible we are here to learn lessons? In real transcendence, one actually transcends life here on earth. You simply are desperate to escape the abhorrent circumstances that come with living in a body on the physical plane and having anything to do with the fellow human beings who disgust you so much. I point out that you are not after transcendence, but escape. And the rules of rebirth are such that you will not be allowed to escape until you no longer seek it, and are able to love life fully and feel love and compassion for your fellow beings. A transcended being can live in the most extreme negative environment, a slum in Mumbai or in Mexico City, and remain radiant, loving and blissful. Feeling life's pain and the pain of others and transcending it

• 
   
  
• . Sorry to inform you of this. One does not get to escape even if you can travel OBE, heal people, or light things on fire with just the chi in your hands, if you are still attached to your revulsion at being alive.
   
  

So to put down 'meditating', or Buddhism as so much wimpy trollop without remaining open to the possibility that transcendence and enlightenment has nothing necessarily to do with magic siddhis and powers, is utter folly. And someone who believes as you do, that rejects everything about the circumstances of being alive, neglects to see that this is precisely the reason you are here.

Edited September 12, 2010 by More_Pie_Guy

[Sunya]

Excellent post Songs.

 

For those who don't understand what is meant by 'ego' and think that having OBEs will 'get rid of your ego' -- the ego is the sense of self, the clinging to an I, the sense that 'I' am separate from everything else, that there is an inner something which I identify with and then there's the external beings or world which are related but are somehow different than I.

 

Having such experiences may test the boundaries of the ego but ultimately there will just be identification with a more subtle body than the physical body. The illusion of the self has not been seen through and may actually create an even strong sense of self than before "Look at me, I'm so enlightened and spiritual because I can zip outta my head and talk to Zeus"

 

If you're looking for a thrill and want to see what's out there, what may be more important to do is to just give it all up, surrender here and now, and be totally present and mindful of your experience as it arises. See all sensations as impermanent vibrations that come and ago. Reality is just a flow of vibrations that we believe are "out there" or "in here" but really they are neither. There's no such thing as "physical" reality or "astral realms" or anything of the like. There is only one reality with different states or lenses, so once you figure out the truth here and now, it applies to everything. No need to go anywhere for the truth. Just here and now, this moment. That's it.

[Pablo]

Yes I am with you on this stuff. I have woken up, or just look at the clock and it be 11:11 for along time, since 13 I would say...

 

And it's funny my husband said I notice. I set the alarm for our child to get ready for School, and you wake up like a couple of min. before everyday. I told him internal clock which is probably is... I said don't stop setting that clock, I will stop waking up...lol

 

I never heard anything back about those questions.

 

As far as you floating above your body, are you vibrating at all? Do you think you are having sleep paralysis? Thats what it's like, and it is also. If that maid any since...

Take care Mel

 

Hi Mel, yes I had plenty of sleep paralysis, at the beginning quite scary. Then I could observe that the unpleasant experiences were triggered by chi, and that not stopping it those experiences simply disappear. Nowadays is just a physical chi experience that I observe (amazed I confess), and it's not a strict sleep paralysis as I can move. Whenever fear appears I watch how the process unfolds as Kenneth Folk describes in his blog: Fear-Misery-Disgust-Desire for Deliverance-Re-observation-Equanimity. It happens quite fast...maybe just 3 seconds!

[~jK~]

Excellent post Songs.

 

For those who don't understand what is meant by 'ego' and think that having OBEs will 'get rid of your ego' -- the ego is the sense of self, the clinging to an I, the sense that 'I' am separate from everything else, that there is an inner something which I identify with and then there's the external beings or world which are related but are somehow different than I.

 

Having such experiences may test the boundaries of the ego but ultimately there will just be identification with a more subtle body than the physical body. The illusion of the self has not been seen through and may actually create an even strong sense of self than before "Look at me, I'm so enlightened and spiritual because I can zip outta my head and talk to Zeus"

 

If you're looking for a thrill and want to see what's out there, what may be more important to do is to just give it all up, surrender here and now, and be totally present and mindful of your experience as it arises. See all sensations as impermanent vibrations that come and ago. Reality is just a flow of vibrations that we believe are "out there" or "in here" but really they are neither. There's no such thing as "physical" reality or "astral realms" or anything of the like. There is only one reality with different states or lenses, so once you figure out the truth here and now, it applies to everything. No need to go anywhere for the truth. Just here and now, this moment. That's it.

 

Before OBE is possible, other than as a fantasy, you must defeat the Guardian of The Gates... If you dare to meet me.

Pick your poison

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLgdcGEqgcw&feature=related

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbWULu5_nXI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0J77CRMeTA&feature=related

Edited September 12, 2010 by ~jK~

[goonis38]

Before OBE is possible, other than as a fantasy, you must defeat the Guardian of The Gates... If you dare to meet me.

Pick your poison

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLgdcGEqgcw&feature=related

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbWULu5_nXI&feature=related

 

 

I pick Moody Blues "Legend Of A Mind"

 

But I follow... My ego was left behind along time ago. Took one trip to Amsterdam to get rid of it. Me and my husband always joke it must be still in a drawer over there in that Hotel we stayed in. You take that kind of deep look inside your self, and you are never the same again. (ego) perhaps not!!

[~jK~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0J77CRMeTA&feature=related

 

 

 

And a Tripple header !

White rabbit - Somebody to love-

and the Smothers Brothers ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4aQuWJuyTQ&feature=related

Edited September 12, 2010 by ~jK~

[goonis38]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0J77CRMeTA&feature=related

 

 

Hey JK,

Enjoying that Quicksilver Messenger Service - Fresh Air is sweet... Mel Thanks

[~jK~]

Hey JK,

Enjoying that Quicksilver Messenger Service - Fresh Air is sweet... Mel Thanks

 

Awwww I picked you for a White Bird person:

Well, It'll still be here when you pop out of your shell

 

White Bird - It's a Beautiful Day - Live - 1971 (stereo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0J77CRMeTA&feature=related

[Thunder_Gooch]

Will attaining nondualistic awareness, or realizing truth(in a Buddhist sense) end rebirth in your opinion?

 

Excellent post Songs.

 

For those who don't understand what is meant by 'ego' and think that having OBEs will 'get rid of your ego' -- the ego is the sense of self, the clinging to an I, the sense that 'I' am separate from everything else, that there is an inner something which I identify with and then there's the external beings or world which are related but are somehow different than I.

 

Having such experiences may test the boundaries of the ego but ultimately there will just be identification with a more subtle body than the physical body. The illusion of the self has not been seen through and may actually create an even strong sense of self than before "Look at me, I'm so enlightened and spiritual because I can zip outta my head and talk to Zeus"

 

If you're looking for a thrill and want to see what's out there, what may be more important to do is to just give it all up, surrender here and now, and be totally present and mindful of your experience as it arises. See all sensations as impermanent vibrations that come and ago. Reality is just a flow of vibrations that we believe are "out there" or "in here" but really they are neither. There's no such thing as "physical" reality or "astral realms" or anything of the like. There is only one reality with different states or lenses, so once you figure out the truth here and now, it applies to everything. No need to go anywhere for the truth. Just here and now, this moment. That's it.

Edited September 12, 2010 by More_Pie_Guy

[~jK~]

Will attaining nondualistic awareness, or realizing truth(in a Buddhist sense) end rebirth in your opinion?

Think for yourself.

[Sunya]

Will attaining nondualistic awareness, or realizing truth(in a Buddhist sense) end rebirth in your opinion?

 

Goal of Buddhism is not nondual awareness. It is realization of the selflessness of everything, kind of like realizing that it's all a hologram and everything is interconnected, but this reality, this world that we know, is still very important so we musn't try to escape because really there's nowhere else to go but here.

 

I'm not even sure I believe in rebirth because I haven't had any insights confirming it. I know many who have had deep experiences so I'm open to it but need to experience it myself to know.

 

I think a better goal is to end suffering. Can't deny suffering.. there is a reason that you're seeking OBEs and experiences and truth. You're dissatisfied with your current state, unhappy with life and how things are unfolding, and that is certainly suffering. To end that and be content is certainly a good goal to have, in my opinion, rather than something abstract like ending rebirth. I think suffering is so much more tangible. It's here, now, and undeniable.