Taken Tai Chi classes with Taoist Tai Chi Society?

[rookie]

Has anyone taken Tai Chi classes with Taoist Tai Chi Society?

 

I have thought of taking a Tai Chi class to foster the flow of Chi in the body. In my web searches, I found that the Taoist Tai Chi Society offered classes on Tai Chi and they seem reasonable priced. Since they have many centers in the US, I was wondering if anyone has taken the class and if they would recommend taking it. They appear to be new to the Denver area, and I thought it would be good to support them if the classes are well taught.

 

So, have you taken one of their classes and would you recommend taking the class?

 

Sorry for the short notice but, I need to decide this before the weekend ( when this class starts).

 

000, well I guess you probably got a lot more than you asked for here LOL

 

Anyway here is my two cents.

 

Forget everything you have heard here. Since you are a beginner, just go and check it out. If you like what you see, go on with it. If not, then move on.

Just don't sign any contracts.

[Taomeow]

tai chi can be used as a martial art, a healing art or for spiritual transformation. It depends on how the principles and energies are applied.

My teacher doesn't teach Tai chi as a MA, but what we are learning can be applied quite effectively in case the need arose. Ward off is ward off, roll back is roll back after all (as are press, push, split, roll pull, elbow and shoulder) ...what is different is the intent behind using these energies...

 

But how do you internalize the dynamics of every move if it is not explained and illustrated in its martial application? A few are obvious, but most are not... you don't really know what you're doing unless you're doing it in a martial context, and if you don't know what you are doing with a move, the flow of qi will be sitting this one out. In my class, martial applications of each and every move are revealed... even if some are skipped over for a while, the moment you run into problems with them (or rather, learn and practice enough to start getting more aware of the problems that you didn't have the skill and the feel to notice before) -- application to the rescue! I discovered that unless it is done this way, many moves are impossible to "get." E.g., 擊地捶 ("punching to the ground", the 33rd move in Chen Laojia) -- the teacher sometimes explained it as "planting a tree" -- I always had difficulty with this image in this position and felt awkward, something kinesthetically counterintuitive about it... till one day a classmate asked the teacher, what's the martial use of this one, are we attacking the opponent's toe punching it with the fist? So then the teacher showed what it's really used for... yikes, its sheer brutality is comparable only to that of The Golden Rooster (easily the most devastating move I know... but initially it was taught as a mere balance exercise and the teacher would even wave his raised palm in the air and say, jokingly, "hello!.." Yet my balance in this position was far from crisp until I knew what it is you're using it for.)

 

So -- it is my empirical observation that taiji taught non-martially can be somewhat better than sloppy but never crisp and precise the way it evolves to be when taught martially... Of course then you can use it for any purpose and with any intent, its possibilities are infinite... but the learning stage undertaken without practical bodily references to its martial source is akin to learning how to ride a bicycle without the bicycle.

[Stigweard]

But how do you internalize the dynamics of every move if it is not explained and illustrated in its martial application? A few are obvious, but most are not... you don't really know what you're doing unless you're doing it in a martial context, and if you don't know what you are doing with a move, the flow of qi will be sitting this one out. In my class, martial applications of each and every move are revealed... even if some are skipped over for a while, the moment you run into problems with them (or rather, learn and practice enough to start getting more aware of the problems that you didn't have the skill and the feel to notice before) -- application to the rescue! I discovered that unless it is done this way, many moves are impossible to "get." E.g., 擊地捶 ("punching to the ground", the 33rd move in Chen Laojia) -- the teacher sometimes explained it as "planting a tree" -- I always had difficulty with this image in this position and felt awkward, something kinesthetically counterintuitive about it... till one day a classmate asked the teacher, what's the martial use of this one, are we attacking the opponent's toe punching it with the fist? So then the teacher showed what it's really used for... yikes, its sheer brutality is comparable only to that of The Golden Rooster (easily the most devastating move I know... but initially it was taught as a mere balance exercise and the teacher would even wave his raised palm in the air and say, jokingly, "hello!.." Yet my balance in this position was far from crisp until I knew what it is you're using it for.)

 

So -- it is my empirical observation that taiji taught non-martially can be somewhat better than sloppy but never crisp and precise the way it evolves to be when taught martially... Of course then you can use it for any purpose and with any intent, its possibilities are infinite... but the learning stage undertaken without practical bodily references to its martial source is akin to learning how to ride a bicycle without the bicycle.

My experience says that you are 100% correct

[Oolong Rabbit]

I've studied taoist taichi for about 4 years now. The emphasis is much more on the qigong side than the martial aspect which suits me just fine. Admittedly, the knowledge of the instructors does vary a lot, but the best obviously studied under Master Moy directly. The society is not perfect, nor do they claim to be, but they do a lot of good. At the end of the day, like most things in life, what you will get out of it depends on what you put into it.

[rookie]

I've studied taoist taichi for about 4 years now. The emphasis is much more on the qigong side than the martial aspect which suits me just fine. Admittedly, the knowledge of the instructors does vary a lot, but the best obviously studied under Master Moy directly. The society is not perfect, nor do they claim to be, but they do a lot of good. At the end of the day, like most things in life, what you will get out of it depends on what you put into it.

 

yes very good point.

If you are not interested in fighting or sparing, then keep it simple and get what you are looking for out of it.

 

There is a lot of big talk in this thread and on this board, but to use taiji as your first line of defense as a martial art in a real life fighting situation is, well, let's just say "advanced" LOL

 

It is another topic but there are mental aspects of fighting that are far more important than all these subtle moves and techniques. When this is in order only a small toolbag is needed. And I am not talking tournament sparing with rules or in your club. When the rubber meets the road in real life what is between the ears matters most.

[APD]

Edited September 24, 2010 by Mal
merged thread

[dwai]

But how do you internalize the dynamics of every move if it is not explained and illustrated in its martial application? A few are obvious, but most are not... you don't really know what you're doing unless you're doing it in a martial context, and if you don't know what you are doing with a move, the flow of qi will be sitting this one out. In my class, martial applications of each and every move are revealed... even if some are skipped over for a while, the moment you run into problems with them (or rather, learn and practice enough to start getting more aware of the problems that you didn't have the skill and the feel to notice before) -- application to the rescue! I discovered that unless it is done this way, many moves are impossible to "get." E.g., 擊地捶 ("punching to the ground", the 33rd move in Chen Laojia) -- the teacher sometimes explained it as "planting a tree" -- I always had difficulty with this image in this position and felt awkward, something kinesthetically counterintuitive about it... till one day a classmate asked the teacher, what's the martial use of this one, are we attacking the opponent's toe punching it with the fist? So then the teacher showed what it's really used for... yikes, its sheer brutality is comparable only to that of The Golden Rooster (easily the most devastating move I know... but initially it was taught as a mere balance exercise and the teacher would even wave his raised palm in the air and say, jokingly, "hello!.." Yet my balance in this position was far from crisp until I knew what it is you're using it for.)

 

So -- it is my empirical observation that taiji taught non-martially can be somewhat better than sloppy but never crisp and precise the way it evolves to be when taught martially... Of course then you can use it for any purpose and with any intent, its possibilities are infinite... but the learning stage undertaken without practical bodily references to its martial source is akin to learning how to ride a bicycle without the bicycle.

 

Please explain what you mean by crisp or sloppy? Taiji is not meant to control the energies but to flow with the energies...you don't move it, it moves you. So if I go by what you are saying, crisp Taiji is flowing well and sloppy is a more physical thing.

 

The application of Taiji Chuan can be done by those with a MA background (for eg, i've trained in Goju Ryu, Aikido before I started Taiji practice)...sure there are esoteric details of power transfer, generating 18 inches of force in 1 inch etc that cannot be learned unless specifically taught and application is best taught when done so experientially...but it doesn't mean one has to focus on the combat aspects of Taiji Chuan to learn it.

 

Two-person practices like tui-shou, da-lu, roll-hands and simply power-transfer practices help us understand the principles and experience the effects of the applications of taiji.

 

[Martial Development]

So -- it is my empirical observation that taiji taught non-martially can be somewhat better than sloppy but never crisp and precise the way it evolves to be when taught martially... Of course then you can use it for any purpose and with any intent, its possibilities are infinite... but the learning stage undertaken without practical bodily references to its martial source is akin to learning how to ride a bicycle without the bicycle.

 

From my point of view, it is all about adhering to a standard. Winning fights consistently is hard, and winning them without relying on speed and power is even harder. So if this is your goal, high standards and careful discrimination are an absolute necessity. And if you're doing it wrong, the other guy will always let you know, immediately.

 

There is no reason that someone can't achieve a deep level in Taijiquan without focus on martial arts applications, except that you need both a clear motive and a strong method. "Learn the moves in the form" will only get you to six months of skill. "Feel your chi" or "relax your body" may get you a few months farther. Push over some weaklings inside a Tai Chi class? Three years, tops--that is as good as it gets. If that is your motive, then even if you practice for decades, you probably won't get any better.

 

And then, even if you aren't interested in martial arts applications, finding yourself unable to use them nevertheless betrays any claims to expertise!

[gendao]

For people wanting to learn some respectable taiji on their own, I recommend checking out Ian Sinclair's "Tai Chi Central" over on YouTube. He teaches a pretty decent 24 form via YouTube postings and has some pretty good video postings which show some of the application side of the form.

 

To supplement Ian's teaching, I'd also recommend checking out Mark Rasmus over on YouTube. He gives a lot of the internal instruction that having a personal "closed door" teacher might provide. In that light, I'd also recommend viewing his Wing Chun lessons as well. They transfer over to taiji perfectly.

Has anyone trained with Ian Sinclair?

Essentially he explains that the physics secret to Taiji power is

(instead of just increasing your velocity).

Momentum = Mass X Velocity (p=mv)

Of course, that is far easier said than

, and I'm guessing requires a lot of deep opening and relaxing of chronic tension.. Edited September 3, 2014 by vortex

[BaguaKicksAss]

There are quite a few other local taichi teachers who are quite good .

[GrandmasterP]

UK Bums can find a good TaiChi class locally via this link....

http://www.taichiunion.com/

 

We've a TaiChi Union teacher does an afternoon class in the village hall.

Only costs £3 and she's excellent.

Edited September 3, 2014 by GrandmasterP