Questions and Answers about Kundalini II

[三江源]

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Edited April 27, 2015 by 三江源

[Vajrahridaya]

I love the part I put in purple, thanks Vajrahidaya.

 

Well shucks.

[Vajrahridaya]

I have seen kundalini awaken spontaneously whether through a period of deep awareness and also as something as a result of an energetic catalyst. Sometimes its a combination. There is disagreement among kundalini researchers so it is difficult to say what's the best way. Basically, what's best is what is happening for you, what speaks to you.

 

 

 

Yes, that's true! But, I do find that those that have it catalyzed through the wizardry and magic of a siddha/saint/master lineage have an easier time with it, and even a straight up blissful time with it. It is all karmic though.

 

 

From a medical daoist view, "kriyas" are signs of chi deviation. The type of kriya one has tells us which element is out of balance.

 

s

 

Yes, this is generally the Tibetan idea as well. But, there are those movements which can be considered signs of connecting to a Bodhisattva or Buddha dimension, like spontaneous mudras or yogic postures.

[liminal_luke]

Not to throw the discussion into a completely different arena but....I'm wondering about the difference between Kunlun energy and kundalini. The kunlun folks say that kunlun is not kundalini. That it's more of a top-down rather than bottom up experience and thus incompatible with kundalini. My own experience of kunlun is, that while it can get pretty intense in the moment, it's nowhere near as intense as the descriptions here of kundalini. Any comments from more experienced kunlun and or kundalini practitioners?

[betwixter]

Not to throw the discussion into a completely different arena but....I'm wondering about the difference between Kunlun energy and kundalini. The kunlun folks say that kunlun is not kundalini. That it's more of a top-down rather than bottom up experience and thus incompatible with kundalini. My own experience of kunlun is, that while it can get pretty intense in the moment, it's nowhere near as intense as the descriptions here of kundalini. Any comments from more experienced kunlun and or kundalini practitioners?

 

I would really like to have some clarity on that too. Thanks for bringing it up.

Edited September 14, 2010 by betwixter

[Taomeow]

 

My mother is one such person. She has never had any problems with kundalini syndrome after surrendering to her chosen path and Guru. Because she lives a balanced life, follows the command of her Guru from Muktananda to Gurumayi, eats right, does her practices unfailingly every day, exercises and studies the texts... thus, she has only really experienced the fluffy, soft side of kundalini and is very deeply peaceful and wise due to the fact of her complete surrender to her path and her Gurus. This is not easy for most people of any hemisphere of origin. It wasn't easy for her either, but she did it... though it took a little while, about 5 or 7 years of fighting it. But, once she did commit... smooth sailing!

 

 

I can't help commending a filial son. But neither can I help noticing that your mother had a smooth sailing where her guru himself didn't. Muktananda's "Play of Consciousness" describes a horrendous kundalini upheaval he himself lived through.

[Taomeow]

From a medical daoist view, "kriyas" are signs of chi deviation. The type of kriya one has tells us which element is out of balance.

 

s

 

That's correct. However, as a reader of fortunes by taoist methods, I have never seen a chart without a "chi deviation," nor a face, nor a spine, nor heard a voice that didn't reveal it, nor smelled perfect balance, with the exception of a few top level masters who were in this balanced state after at least over forty years of taoist practice. And they, in every case, had a story of a huge upheaval to tell about the beginning of their path.

 

I wouldn't want anyone comparing views in this thread to feel that if something is going on with them short of a smooth sailing it's a sign of some "deviation" in them not shared by the general population. No, my friends, no and no. You are not inferior to the problem-free "positive experiencers." You're just blessed or cursed (however you look at it) with your "stuff" being closer to the surface, your defensive walls thinner, your sensitivity and responsiveness higher. Is all. Other than that, we're all in the same modern boat which hasn't been sailing smoothly for quite a while now... have you noticed?..

[Taomeow]

You could power a small city with that! . In the day, I couldn't even get into my school's gifted program much less Mensa. They need to have a green eyed emote option.

Nah, don't view it with green eyes, it's more trouble than its worth... besides, it is not a reliable marker of true intelligence... I'm told a bank account is.

 

If I am not mistaken, didn't Gopi alleviate his 'condition' by focusing on clearing/enhancing the 'cool' flow through the ida? I believe much of his trouble had to do mostly with the excessive heat, and associated effects, that the Kundalini can sometimes present. In this sense, it seems much of his suffering was unnecessary if these two channels were balanced in the first place.

 

I read it a long time ago, so I don't remember the details, only the gist of it... but based on my own goings on in the heyday of kundalini, a cool flow could help only AFTER the fire was almost out by virtue of burning for a long time and running out of fuel. There's no such thing as balanced channels in modern humans. I wonder why the very proponents of the "we're-all-one-being" doctrines keep forgetting about it and separating flocks into "us" and "them" the moment something goes wrong with "them" but not with "us." There's no exemptions -- a polluted, violence-ridden planet is not floating in a place separate from a KAP practitioner or any other practitioner of anything sealed off from her problem-free bliss except in the domain of the neocortical as-if loops... lemme reference that since I'm mentioning them for the second time.

 

The best idea as to why some people don't seem to suffer no matter what is actually going on with them and everybody else came to me not from a spiritual but from a scientific-with-a-heart source, Antonio Damasio the prominent cognitive neuroscientist. He describes the neurological mechanics of such as-if constructs of the mind that begin and end in a loop in the neocortex -- as opposed to the real bodymind pathways behind real internal events (feelings, emotions and thoughts) that invariably (sic) begin in the body, feed to the brain, get feedback from the brain back to the body and provide a real rather than an as-if loop of experience.

 

He also describes a medical condition termed "anosognosia," literally "absence of knowledge of the disease" -- in its extreme cases, a patient who is completely paralyzed from the neck down is unable to understand that something is wrong with him, the information doesn't get processed, and since the brain gets nothing even remotely close to normal by way of feedback from the body, it creates its own picture of reality that doesn't depend on such information. In every single case, this picture is rosy. Perfect happy normal business as usual. No amount of evidence to the contrary can shatter this conviction in an anosognosiac.

 

I think this is the most horrible disease known to man, and unlike the extreme ones, mild cases are all over the place.

[Vajrahridaya]

I can't help commending a filial son. But neither can I help noticing that your mother had a smooth sailing where her guru himself didn't. Muktananda's "Play of Consciousness" describes a horrendous kundalini upheaval he himself lived through.

 

Horrendous? Where was it horrendous? He just had some trials. His Guru told him not to eat mangos for a little while even while he had to sit under a mango tree that was next to his hut. He had an issue with the shakti dancing suggestively in front of him as a women in a meditation vision, with his penis growing to an enormous size and poking his belly button as he had just taken Sanyas. But then he went to another hut and found a book on tantra and kundalini and had this psychological worry he had about that alleviated. His eyes rolled to the back of his head and rolled around which he said hurt. He didn't really have all this craziness described in many of the Kundalini Syndrome stories or yours for that matter. He followed the command and guidance of his Guru.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[betwixter]

Nah, don't view it with green eyes, it's more trouble than its worth... besides, it is not a reliable marker of true intelligence... I'm told a bank account is.

 

If that's the case, then I'm 0 for 2...shikes !

 

 

I read it a long time ago, so I don't remember the details, only the gist of it... but based on my own goings on in the heyday of kundalini, a cool flow could help only AFTER the fire was almost out by virtue of burning for a long time and running out of fuel. There's no such thing as balanced channels in modern humans. I wonder why the very proponents of the "we're-all-one-being" doctrines keep forgetting about it and separating flocks into "us" and "them" the moment something goes wrong with "them" but not with "us." There's no exemptions -- a polluted, violence-ridden planet is not floating in a place separate from a KAP practitioner or any other practitioner of anything sealed off from her problem-free bliss except in the domain of the neocortical as-if loops... lemme reference that since I'm mentioning them for the second time.

 

The best idea as to why some people don't seem to suffer no matter what is actually going on with them and everybody else came to me not from a spiritual but from a scientific-with-a-heart source, Antonio Damasio the prominent cognitive neuroscientist. He describes the neurological mechanics of such as-if constructs of the mind that begin and end in a loop in the neocortex -- as opposed to the real bodymind pathways behind real internal events (feelings, emotions and thoughts) that invariably (sic) begin in the body, feed to the brain, get feedback from the brain back to the body and provide a real rather than an as-if loop of experience.

 

He also describes a medical condition termed "anosognosia," literally "absence of knowledge of the disease" -- in its extreme cases, a patient who is completely paralyzed from the neck down is unable to understand that something is wrong with him, the information doesn't get processed, and since the brain gets nothing even remotely close to normal by way of feedback from the body, it creates its own picture of reality that doesn't depend on such information. In every single case, this picture is rosy. Perfect happy normal business as usual. No amount of evidence to the contrary can shatter this conviction in an anosognosiac.

 

I think this is the most horrible disease known to man, and unlike the extreme ones, mild cases are all over the place.

 

Damn, you got to it before I edited it . But your response applied to either regardless. My own practice of anulom vilom, the only traditional pranayama I practice, is due in large part to Gopi and his horrific description of being burned from the inside...just hedging my bets .

 

Did Dr. Damasio disclose any possible cause and/or any possible remedy for "anosognosia,"? Matrix anyone?--yes, damnit, I loved that movie.

 

I have never run across that condition and from how you describe it, would seem to be one of these ailments that is akin to certain meditative states that completely suspend one in such an ecstatic head-space that certain necessary aspects of one's being are relegated to non-essential.

 

A gentleman named Grant McFetridge, who founded the ISPS, has categorized a slew of peak states, the traits inherent, the causes for them, and if they can be considered dysfunctional.

 

What is curious is that a number of states that sound quite similar to many descriptions of samdhic and jhanic experiences he found to be particular dysfunctional states in which certain areas ('brains'...as he adheres to Dr. Paul MacLean's multi-brain theory in which 'our brain is divided into parts that each operate independently in an average person') in the energetic structures of the body-mind are not communicating correctly or worse, are shut down. And in a number of these states where one 'brain' is 'turned off' (he claims many meditative practices actually result in this), the individual doesn't realize he is a dysfunctional state as it is so 'enjoyable' or has the 'critical' aspect of cognition severely compromised; and they can spend years in such states before, for reasons I don't understand, the 'brain' can kick back 'on' dropping them out of said states.

 

I know this isn't quite the same as what you were indicating, but it seemed to follow a similar route, so I took it by god.

[Taomeow]

Horrendous? Where was it horrendous? He just had some trials. His Guru told him not to eat mangos for a little while even while he had to sit under a mango tree that was next to his hut. He had an issue with the shakti dancing suggestively in front of him as a women in a meditation vision, with his penis growing to an enormous size and poking his belly button as he had just taken Sanyas. But then he went to another hut and found a book on tantra and kundalini and had this psychological worry he had about that alleviated. His eyes rolled to the back of his head and rolled around which he said hurt. He didn't really have all this craziness described in many of the Kundalini Syndrome stories or yours for that matter. He followed the command and guidance of his Guru.

 

We either didn't read the same book. Or your eyes skipped over the chapters mine didn't.

[Vajrahridaya]

We either didn't read the same book. Or your eyes skipped over the chapters mine didn't.

 

I've read the book about 3 to 4 times from beginning to end and attended many study courses on it. It was my bible for a while there.

 

His kriyas were blissful unless he was having some psychological issues of confusion concerning what was happening, which were alleviated through study. He said the eye rolling was very painful though.

 

He had many physical responses that were intense, like automatic yoga postures and what not. But, he didn't experience the psychosis, demon possession, evil voices, seeing shadow monsters, nightmares, etc. His experiences were intense but encased in bliss, love and devotion for his Guru.

 

His awakening was not only initiated by a great Master but guided by it as well, step by step.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Birch]

I don't talk to my cells as much as they talk to me at the moment. I listen to them. I've spent far too long dragging them all over the map. They decided they'd rather not do that any more. So they've got me doing ALL kinds of weird stuff

 

For those bystanders that reckon I've lost it more than usual, well I haven't. I'm just reversing some currents

 

Otherwise I thought both Susan's and TaoMeow's posts were spot on at explaining mechanisms

[Sunya]

We either didn't read the same book. Or your eyes skipped over the chapters mine didn't.

 

I read the book as well and found it be very inspirational and cool. Sure it's full of lots of wild stuff like visions of other realms and siddhis manifesting. I found the book to be overall very positive though and sure he did write that he suffered in the beginning but I think he wrote that mainly it was due to his lack of surrender (I will double check though) - for sure though, the book was not as depressing as some of the posts on here. Perhaps it's because Muktananda finished the process and is coming from a different place. But it really did seem like overall his process was blissful and not much suffering involved after he surrendered and trusted his teacher, who he thought was the source of the transformation. I've said it before, there really is pragmatism in having devotion to a teacher. Calms you the hell down

 

OKay I found the chapter.. it's called "My Confused State of Mind" which starts on page 73. He experiences fear of death, confusion, thinks he will either go mad or die, lots of visions, feels a power controlling him, extreme heat, inability to sleep, restlessness, spontaneous movements, pain in the body "My whole body ached and every pore felt like it was pierced by a thousand needles" -- This didn't last long though because he eventually had a vision the dissolution of the world into a great bright light when subsided into red light and from then on his meditation deepened and his attachment to the body lessened.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Sunya

[Vajrahridaya]

OKay I found the chapter.. it's called "My Confused State of Mind" which starts on page 73. He experiences fear of death, confusion, thinks he will either go mad or die, lots of visions, feels a power controlling him, extreme heat, inability to sleep, restlessness, spontaneous movements, pain in the body "My whole body ached and every pore felt like it was pierced by a thousand needles" -- This didn't last long though because he eventually had a vision the dissolution of the world into a great bright light when subsided into red light and from then on his meditation deepened and his attachment to the body lessened.

 

Yes, devotion, surrender and discipline is the way.

[Vajrasattva]

[quote name

Swami Muktananda just gave Shaktipat whenever and wherever to whomever and he said that he couldn't even help it... He was in constant psychic communication with his passed on Guru sitting in Siddhaloka, which exists... I've been there. Anyway, he said that Nityananda kept saying to just let it flow and give it without end, that it was time on Earth for such a thing to happen.

 

this is very true and its exactly what its like and what its for. There are times it just happens whether i want to "give" it or not. And t can occur in moments we least expect.