Taoist Philosophy

[Marblehead]

[The Observer]

[Apech]

...

Though there be bad people,

Why reject them?

 

 

Why Reject people?

 

"One who knows the truth about all-sufficiency seeks nothing, loses nothing, and rejects nothing."

 

The 'ject' bit of re-ject means (I think) 'to throw' - so to reject means to throw back ... as if you had caught some fish, some are no good to eat so you throw them back. People on the other hand are a bit different. Even though I might see it as a good thing not to reject other people - I would definitely like to reject some of their behavior. But I think from a Taoist point of view that's a no-no too.

 

"So, Mr. Hitler you are going to plunge Europe into war and practice genocide?"

 

"How could I reject you or your plans ... I'm a Taoist for Chrissake!"

 

I think I need to do some more work on this one!!! Ha ha.

 

Thanks as usual Marbles for making me think.

[Marblehead]

I think I need to do some more work on this one!!! Ha ha.

 

Thanks as usual Marbles for making me think.

 

I think that the key here is that even though we do not reject the people, afterall, they are a part of Tao, we do not have to accept their negative behavior. Chuang Tzu tried to speak to this but I think he didn't do a very good job.

 

There is a difference, IMO, between rejecting people and rejecting their behavior. If their behavior is negative we just don't let them into our life.

 

And yes, there are 'things' that I reject from my life. Why should behavior of people be any different?

 

Peace & Love!

[Apech]

 

There is a difference, IMO, between rejecting people and rejecting their behavior. If their behavior is negative we just don't let them into our life.

 

 

 

There are people (who I don't know but just from their 'energy') - if I see them in the Supermarket I go down a different aisle - I don't reject them as such I suppose I just like to keep away. I don't know if this is very Taoist or not - and I don't know if it is just about me at the moment. I wish them well but please stay away from me! Ha!

 

If you reject behaviors then are we saying these behaviors are not part of Tao? Hmmm still thinking about this.

[Marblehead]

There are people (who I don't know but just from their 'energy') - if I see them in the Supermarket I go down a different aisle - I don't reject them as such I suppose I just like to keep away. I don't know if this is very Taoist or not - and I don't know if it is just about me at the moment. I wish them well but please stay away from me! Ha!

 

Yep. I will always suggest taht avoidance is the best and first action to take regarding anything we view as negative. (My intuition is pretty good at guiding me in this regard.)

 

If you reject behaviors then are we saying these behaviors are not part of Tao? Hmmm still thinking about this.

 

Excellent question! I will offer my understanding. Yes, these behaviors are a part of Tao. But they are not a part of Te. This is why I have always understood that when we talk about Taoism we are mostly talking about Te, not Tao. Tao is undefinable except to say that it includes "All".

 

Te, however, is the Way of Tao. The principles of Te are guides, not Commandments. Conditions change and therefore the Way we interact with these conditions will change as well (or at least should in many cases).

 

So in rejecting certain behaviours we are not rejecting the fullness of Tao and all its manifestations but we are rejecting the Way that is not virtuous. These negative behaviours are called "not the Way".

 

Peace & Love!

[Apech]

 

 

Excellent question! I will offer my understanding. Yes, these behaviors are a part of Tao. But they are not a part of Te. This is why I have always understood that when we talk about Taoism we are mostly talking about Te, not Tao. Tao is undefinable except to say that it includes "All".

 

Te, however, is the Way of Tao. The principles of Te are guides, not Commandments. Conditions change and therefore the Way we interact with these conditions will change as well (or at least should in many cases).

 

So in rejecting certain behaviours we are not rejecting the fullness of Tao and all its manifestations but we are rejecting the Way that is not virtuous. These negative behaviours are called "not the Way".

 

Peace & Love!

 

Marbles if you could see me now I would be bowing in your general direction. Te not Tao. yes of course.

 

Long live Te in all its manifestations.

[Marblehead]

Marbles if you could see me now I would be bowing in your general direction. Te not Tao. yes of course.

 

Long live Te in all its manifestations.

 

I love your response. It is such an ego boost. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[The Observer]

The 'ject' bit of re-ject means (I think) 'to throw' - so to reject means to throw back ... as if you had caught some fish, some are no good to eat so you throw them back. People on the other hand are a bit different. Even though I might see it as a good thing not to reject other people - I would definitely like to reject some of their behavior. But I think from a Taoist point of view that's a no-no too.

 

"So, Mr. Hitler you are going to plunge Europe into war and practice genocide?"

 

"How could I reject you or your plans ... I'm a Taoist for Chrissake!"

 

I think I need to do some more work on this one!!! Ha ha.

 

Thanks as usual Marbles for making me think.

 

I think you took the quote out of concept. First and foremost one should be practical, if there is something threatening you, address it. Then whatever comes of the conflict, deal with it as best you can. Hope that made sense.

[Marblehead]

I think you took the quote out of concept. First and foremost one should be practical, if there is something threatening you, address it. Then whatever comes of the conflict, deal with it as best you can. Hope that made sense.

 

Yes, that made sense Observer (to me). Thanks.

 

Peace & Love!

[Apech]

I think you took the quote out of concept. First and foremost one should be practical, if there is something threatening you, address it. Then whatever comes of the conflict, deal with it as best you can. Hope that made sense.

 

Thanks - could you explain a little more?

[Marblehead]

Te not Tao. yes of course.

 

Long live Te in all its manifestations.

 

A thought came to mind concerning this and I feel it is significant so here goes.

 

Te is generally translated to "Virtue". Stig loves to talk about Taoist Virtue. (I wish he would do so more often.)

 

It should be noted that Taoist 'virtue' is not the same as Confucian 'virtue' nor is it the same as Buddhist 'virtue. Yes, there are similarities, but there are also differences.

 

I think it is the "Te" aspect of the Tao Te Ching that makes Taoism unique and different from other belief systems.

 

Tao is unarguable - it is every thing and every non-thing.

 

The Way of Tao is unagruable - these are the processes of the universe - the processes of Tao.

 

The Way of Tao is called "Te", "Virtue" with a cap "V".

 

The way of man is called "te", "virtue" with a lower case "v".

 

Tao cannot avoid being virtuous. Regardless of the processes Tao is always true to its Virtue.

 

Man, however, can avoid being virtuous. We are told we should follow earth, that is, the processes of earth, to live peacefully with great consideration for all other things of earth. Of course, it is obvious that we do not do this too often. We are constandly wanting to change things for the better. For the better of what? For "our" betterment. We seem to be dissatisfied with what the earth provides willingly so we rape and pillage. This, IMO, is not the Way of Tao or the way man should conduct him/herself.

 

That's all for now.

 

Peace & Love!

Edited September 13, 2010 by Marblehead

[Spectrum]

Natural Selection at it's Finest

[Stigweard]

[Marblehead]

You rang?

 

Yep. I enjoy hearing from you now and again.

"The Path With Heart"

 

I like that.

Dé being translated into "virtue" presents interesting challenges, because the word is shackled with implied codes or systems of ethics.

 

I agree. That is why I decided to make that post above. And especially, Confucian Ethics should not be confused with Taoist Virtue.

 

Thanks for the post and info!

 

Peace & Love!

Edited September 14, 2010 by Marblehead

[3bob]

Names like Taoism, Buddhism, Confucian, etc., are like trying to pin the tail on the donkey but when the pinata is broken which frees that within it - who then insists the donkey should never have been sacrificed?

 

(edit: my analogy is not quite right if considering certain traditions and meanings, but I found the image useful)

 

Om

Edited September 15, 2010 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Names like Taoism, Buddhism, Confucian, etc., are like trying to pin the tail on the donkey but when the pinata is broken which frees that within it - who then insists the donkey should never have been sacrificed?

 

(edit: my analogy is not quite right if considering certain traditions and meanings, but I found the image useful)

 

Om

 

You done good. Hehehe. Agree, it's the life we live, not who wrote the book.

 

Peace & Love!