There no awakening for Kundalini

[~jK~]

Seth, thanks for sharing your experience with us. I understand exactly what you mean when you say "that's what it felt like." But because there are individual differences between people, if awakening is made a standard, this will seriously harm a lot of people. That's what my point is.

 

 

Look - there is a series of awakening procedures described in Yoga as well as in the Taoist manuals.

 

Simply put - give us a few so as to evaluate your credentals - or the lack of.... which is becoming increasingly apparent.

 

I repeat:

 

Seth, thanks for sharing your experience with us. I understand exactly what you mean when you say "that's what it felt like." But because there are individual differences between people, if awakening is made a standard, this will seriously harm a lot of people. That's what my point is.

 

Obviously you have no point other than an effort to create a fear of What Ifs......

Edited September 16, 2010 by ~jK~

[Seth Ananda]

Thanks everyone as well! This is a good thread

[JK stop feeling so threatened by questions, they are far more important than Answers! ]

 

Gold I love your bit on Inter-subjectivity. I have been saying that for years. I personally feel that the Idea of the possibility of Objectivity is just a carry on from the Judeo-Christian One true God world view. It went from one true god owned by priests and rabbi's, to One true Truth owned by Lab coats.

In my old Tradition the supreme state {Shiva] was called the ultimate Subjectivity... lol

I also like the bit on being caught in a paradigm of a single perspective of awakening.

In some {not you Vajra } of Namkai Norbu's students I have really seen that. They get so fixated on awakening being a sudden not gradual thing that they seem to rob themselves of the ability to evolve gradually, and the result is that even the Long term students {many of} just seem like jumpy nervous beginners...

 

I think that's why the Idea of open ended Meta Paradigms is very Important as they can contain many smaller specific paradigms within and give them openings and room for growth...

So thanks for bringing up the Idea of not awakening the Kundalini as a way things can be viewed... [other Ideas are Good JK]

 

 

Thanks Vajra for sharing your experiences as well, and those book recomendations, I am not familiar with either of them - Damn! straight to Amazon...

Its Amazing stuff.

 

Cat, I would love to hear about your experiences as well, I don't get a Female perspective on this much, Rare and Valuable

 

Big Love everyone {you too JK}

Seth.

[Vajrahridaya]

 

In some {not you Vajra } of Namkai Norbu's students I have really seen that. They get so fixated on awakening being a sudden not gradual thing that they seem to rob themselves of the ability to evolve gradually, and the result is that even the Long term students {many of} just seem like jumpy nervous beginners...

 

Seth.

 

Yup, that's because they don't study the texts, or study the Precious Vase at all. It's really wow! "Ok, you've been involved with Rinpoche for 20 years and you haven't even read his precious vase?"

 

Well... I don't want to judge them really, as everyone has their process. But, it's really sad when people don't even read the teachings of the teacher they claim to be awakened by.

 

When I remembered my Shaktipat experience after forgetting it for 7 years at the age of 20, I read every single Swami Muktananda book and Gurumayi book available and not available anymore, as well as every single book I could get my hands on from other traditions as well as saints of my tradition at the time. I really wanted to understand this awakening experience and the process that others went through no matter the tradition.

 

I've always felt that the process of progress is unique and individual. Even if it's instantaneous, that's because of the gradual process of graduating degrees. The depth the person has given them-self to their path of contemplation over lifetimes in order for the conjunction of open karma and contact with a Siddha to make that huge quantum leap in personal evolution, or returning if you prefer that paradigm of conceptualizing?

Edited September 17, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[~jK~]

Thanks everyone as well! This is a good thread

[JK stop feeling so threatened by questions, they are far more important than Answers! ]

 

Gold I love your bit on Inter-subjectivity. I have been saying that for years. I personally feel that the Idea of the possibility of Objectivity is just a carry on from the Judeo-Christian One true God world view. It went from one true god owned by priests and rabbi's, to One true Truth owned by Lab coats.

In my old Tradition the supreme state {Shiva] was called the ultimate Subjectivity... lol

I also like the bit on being caught in a paradigm of a single perspective of awakening.

In some {not you Vajra } of Namkai Norbu's students I have really seen that. They get so fixated on awakening being a sudden not gradual thing that they seem to rob themselves of the ability to evolve gradually, and the result is that even the Long term students {many of} just seem like jumpy nervous beginners...

 

I think that's why the Idea of open ended Meta Paradigms is very Important as they can contain many smaller specific paradigms within and give them openings and room for growth...

So thanks for bringing up the Idea of not awakening the Kundalini as a way things can be viewed... [other Ideas are Good JK]

 

 

Thanks Vajra for sharing your experiences as well, and those book recomendations, I am not familiar with either of them - Damn! straight to Amazon...

Its Amazing stuff.

 

Cat, I would love to hear about your experiences as well, I don't get a Female perspective on this much, Rare and Valuable

 

Big Love everyone {you too JK}

Seth.

Seth,

China is a place of stability such as the 4,000 year old Yi Jing as well as 2,000 year old philosophies that remain true today as they will in the future, etc. etc. etc.

 

Seth, What I am pointing to is that to wander aimlessly as you make guesses as to what to do next is a blind man trying to describe an elephant to other blind people.

 

Seth, in an effort to put things in perspective - you are working to take time from the lives of others which is one of the definitions of murder.

 

Seth keep your in your pants - I see you as you are and I am not one of your kind.

[Sunya]

 

 

[~jK~]

Cat Chasing a fish: Early ~jK~ ish (3AM).

 

 

l

l

l

l~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ l:PB)========== >)))'>

~~~~~~~~~~

````````` ................

``````````` ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Seth Ananda]

Seth,

China is a place of stability such as the 4,000 year old Yi Jing as well as 2,000 year old philosophies that remain true today as they will in the future, etc. etc. etc.

 

Seth, What I am pointing to is that to wander aimlessly as you make guesses as to what to do next is a blind man trying to describe an elephant to other blind people.

 

Seth, in an effort to put things in perspective - you are working to take time from the lives of others which is one of the definitions of murder.

 

Seth keep your in your pants - I see you as you are and I am not one of your kind.

 

Wow we are not both Human, and I am a Murderer? lol.

Thank you for correcting me, you really put me in my place, and I feel much more liberated Your Illumination and wisdom shine through your skilful means of communication

 

But here, :wub:

Seth.

[松永道]

There is no awakening of anything.

 

I wouldn't write off the sages so easily.

 

We have many things that lay dormant in our bodies, waiting to be turned on. Raise a baby in a pitch black cave and his eyes will not awaken to object differentiation. Certain genes, depending on lifestyle factors, may never manifest. Are they there? Yes. But they are not 'awake'.

 

The Kundalini is like this, a natural part of the body that may or may not awaken.

[~jK~]

I wouldn't write off the sages so easily.

 

We have many things that lay dormant in our bodies, waiting to be turned on. Raise a baby in a pitch black cave and his eyes will not awaken to object differentiation. Certain genes, depending on lifestyle factors, may never manifest. Are they there? Yes. But they are not 'awake'.

 

The Kundalini is like this, a natural part of the body that may or may not awaken.

The Kundalini, if not used, forms blockages, that -just as the other parts of the body - will decline into atrophy.

Eva Wong, in her book "Cultivating Stillness" points to these points of atrophy as worms in the nervous system.

To the best of my knowledge, Edgar Cayce: http://www.caycegoldengate.com/ec_story1.shtml -was the first westerner to claim that our body functions could be controlled through mentaly concentrating upon various areas...

ALTHOUGH... I am convinced that it is 'I' that tells my legs to move.

Edited September 17, 2010 by ~jK~

[goldisheavy]

I wouldn't write off the sages so easily.

 

I don't think there is a universal agreement among the sages on this point. At the same time, it's true that I don't listen to all the sages equally. Perhaps I do write some of them off.

Edited September 17, 2010 by goldisheavy

[~jK~]

I don't think there is a universal agreement among the sages on this point. At the same time, it's true that I don't listen to all the sages equally. Perhaps I do write some of them off.

 

Dear Goldie, Please back your 'Belief Oriented' claims with a few reputable outsourcing Urls etc.

 

Any fool can give one example as perfect as it exists only in religious belief systems - which, being that religions are based on politicizing the justification for WAR, are the most imperfect thought systems of humanity as can be seen through the Catholick church sanctioning the molestation of children.

 

In China, many ask me of christianity in relation to Buddhism. I reply with: in Christianity they 'believe' that they can murder your babies, even you and ask their all powerfull (albeit unable to be demonstrated to even exist) god to forgive -and he will forgive- and they will be pure again.

 

In Contrast Buddhism teaches that we all must be responsible for our actions as the only one that can forgive us is ourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiveness#Buddhism

 

At the same time, it's true that I don't listen to all the sages equally. Perhaps I do write some of them off.

Nice try but obviously your '''try''' doesn't quite cut it - You Do attempt to write them off.

It only reflects on your attempt to excuse laziness as well as the false point of your unsubstanciated claims.

Edited September 19, 2010 by ~jK~

[Mal]

JK,

 

I understand that you have a view on what kundalini is and how it works. Good for you, I wish I did.

 

However if you want to equate the questions of others as "Total and Absolute Ignorance" their discussions as nothing better than "working to take time from the lives of others which is one of the definitions of murder"

or fools attempting to excuse laziness as well as the false point with unsubstantiated claims [paraphrase]

 

Perhaps you need some time to work on understanding the purpose of a "discussion board" or at least re read the insult policy.

 

See you in a few days

 

-mod squad-

[Easy]

Hey,

 

It has been awhile since I posted here, I only lurk a rare time to time; however this Kundalini thread lured me from the weeds. I have only sampled the thread here and there so some of the content might be a unacknowledged repetition of someone else's thoughts.

 

My comments are based almost entirely on my own experience which is the only thing in this world I really trust. So out of that trust I have to say I agree in part with Goldisheavy because if some fraction of kundalini energy is not always present one is going to be awfully sick or really dead...the stuff is too basic not to be present in healthy living. The dilemma that kundalini poses is that it is not always needed to meet the exigencies of a moment and it is damned near impossible to know when's the moment kundalini is the energy that needs to rise (i.e. awaken) into dominance within one's own self, and beyond impossible to know that moment and need in another. I would guess such knowledge rests solely in the energy itself and its full and seamless consolidation with the other factors and forms of mind-body accord that provides one with exactly what one needs when the time is right. If kundalini seems a spontaneous reception to external circumstance or a sudden in-sight, or the result of a long alchemical grind it doesn't matter.

 

My thoughts on kundalini are more fully expressed here in the last post on my blog, the politics of which recommended that I use the word "flow" instead of "kundalini event". But the idea is exactly the same.

[Vajrahridaya]

I'm definitely on the, "It's awakened" camp. There is a huge difference between the before and after. I think it's different from the energy that just keeps us alive, or a different aspect of that energy.

[ShaktiMama]

I'm definitely on the, "It's awakened" camp. There is a huge difference between the before and after. I think it's different from the energy that just keeps us alive, or a different aspect of that energy.

 

I think of kundalini as having two aspects.

The physical aspect keeps the body alive, the heart beating, the lungs breathing. No kundalini and you are dead.

 

There is a spiritualizing aspect which is an evolutionary energy which returns a person to their natural state of awareness of the Consciousness of which they are a part.

 

Babies are born with the kundalini awake in both forms but the non physical part often goes to "sleep" from parental, educational, cultural, and environmental pressures.

 

In Medical Daoism, babies are born with the water orbit functioning as the natural dominant orbit. Since civilized society is not conducive to nuturuing the growth of water babies, the fire orbit starts to become dominant (the one most associated with the common MCO) and is the dominant orbit to be found in adults.

(Medical daoism approach courtesy of Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson's research).

 

s

[markern]

I think of kundalini as having two aspects.

The physical aspect keeps the body alive, the heart beating, the lungs breathing. No kundalini and you are dead.

 

There is a spiritualizing aspect which is an evolutionary energy which returns a person to their natural state of awareness of the Consciousness of which they are a part.

 

Babies are born with the kundalini awake in both forms but the non physical part often goes to "sleep" from parental, educational, cultural, and environmental pressures.

 

In Medical Daoism, babies are born with the water orbit functioning as the natural dominant orbit. Since civilized society is not conducive to nuturuing the growth of water babies, the fire orbit starts to become dominant (the one most associated with the common MCO) and is the dominant orbit to be found in adults.

(Medical daoism approach courtesy of Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson's research).

 

s

 

Never herd of these different orbits before. Maybe the same type of thing as when eternal student talked about nine levels of the orbit in wudang? Which book (by Johnson?) should I read to learn about this? And could you elaborate a bit about it? Very interesting.

[~jK~]

JK,

 

I understand that you have a view on what kundalini is and how it works. Good for you, I wish I did.-mod squad-

 

Mal

Speaking of "Total and Absolute Ignorance" ...

Only an idiot would write a comment on admitting that he didn't understand what he was commenting on after creating many web pages on KAP AKA: the Kundalini Awakening Process...

 

I Wonder - which is worse - my criticizing while providing definitive grounds for the criticism or Your bitching with no grounds such as illustrated by your post....

 

Please Note - I requested to have my membership as well as topics and posts deleted WHY HAVEN'T YOU DONE IT?

 

This website is not up to my expectations as it serves only the egomainia of a few that obviously have no concept of Taoist Philosophy or its workings.

 

I Will continue with this debate untill my request is completed.

 

As I said before- STICK IT UP YOUR OZZY OZZ

[Vajrahridaya]

Wow, you held onto that anger for that many days straight? Mmmmmkay.

[Seth Ananda]

Mal

Speaking of "Total and Absolute Ignorance" ...

Only an idiot would write a comment on admitting that he didn't understand what he was commenting on after creating many web pages on KAP AKA: the Kundalini Awakening Process...

 

I Wonder - which is worse - my criticizing while providing definitive grounds for the criticism or Your bitching with no grounds such as illustrated by your post....

 

Please Note - I requested to have my membership as well as topics and posts deleted WHY HAVEN'T YOU DONE IT?

 

This website is not up to my expectations as it serves only the egomainia of a few that obviously have no concept of Taoist Philosophy or its workings.

 

I Will continue with this debate untill my request is completed.

 

As I said before- STICK IT UP YOUR OZZY OZZ

Jk. Please read back over the posts you have made in this thread. Everyone has been playing nice, and sharing Information or experiences except you.

All you have done is been really rude to several people and prattled on about nothing, but somehow claiming that through all your abuse you are a Taoist. Its obvious from your every word that although you may like to believe you are a Taoist you really have no idea what it is to actually be one.

Simply living in China my friend is just not enough to qualify you...

If you really need to Argue and accuse me of who knows what you will accuse me of next, before you reply, just re-read your Input to this thread.

 

Blessings.

Seth.

[~jK~]

Jk. Please read back over the posts you have made in this thread. Everyone has been playing nice, and sharing Information or experiences except you.

All you have done is been really rude to several people and prattled on about nothing, but somehow claiming that through all your abuse you are a Taoist. Its obvious from your every word that although you may like to believe you are a Taoist you really have no idea what it is to actually be one.

Simply living in China my friend is just not enough to qualify you...

If you really need to Argue and accuse me of who knows what you will accuse me of next, before you reply, just re-read your Input to this thread.

 

Blessings.

Seth.

Read my posts Dummy - I have no intention of playing like children - I am going to continue to post these insults untill my membership in this idiotic website is deleted.

[Seth Ananda]

Read my posts Dummy - I have no intention of playing like children - I am going to continue to post these insults untill my membership in this idiotic website is deleted.

Happy Travels!

[~jK~]

Happy Travels!

Seth,

I'm beginning to think you have found one of the keys to the Tao.

For me, to know the tao, it is a journey with myself as a meditator.

 

One of my keys has been a small amulet of a white tiger on top, two green dragons on the sides all embracing the Tao. It is described in The Jade Emperor's Mind Seal Classic.

During my stay in China - well over 10 years - I've been finding these amulets - a total of 8 so far - all are hand carved either from, ageless, river rocks or in Jade.

My most recent one is pure milky quartz crystal - carved to perfect detail.

Actually all are carved by a different technique master in perfect detail.

My final discovery was "The Jade Emperor's Mind Seal Classic" itself.

Take care Seth.

 

~jK~ is the chinese character for water ever flowing.

[markern]

JK, it seems obvious to me from the posts you have been making for some time now that you are loosing your mental stability. I mean that not in a hostile way as a critique of what you have been arguing as I haven`t been very engaged in those debates or care too much about them. I say it out of concern for a fellow human being. Seriously man you are loosing it. Wake up and take a look at what you need to do to get back to when you were more stable and balanced. Maybe you should seek out both a reputable taoist or budhist teacher in your area and a therapist with understanding of cultivation.

 

Hope things work out for you

 

markern

[C T]

Padmasambhava once told fellow yogis and yoginis to take heed on the spiritual path.

 

He said to all, "Even though your 'View' is as vast as the sky, let your conduct be more refined than barley flour."

 

The spiritual path is full of traps.

 

Even highly-realized individuals, who has honed their spiritual 'self', if they cannot at the same time let go of this 'self', can and will remain trapped in the quagmire of ego and as a result their spiritual 'behavior' can still be tainted with pompousness and judgmental attitudes. This can be a source of great suffering, even greater than those who are actually not on the 'path'.

 

Haven't we all seen how so-called Masters, even after years of teaching and accumulating thousands of students, can still succumb to irrational thoughts and less than moral actions?

 

I can say for sure that acquiring amulets and pendants, which many Asians have a weakness for, cannot help, if fundamentally there is no harmony between one's spiritual attainments and normal, everyday behavior in terms of interacting with others. Because of this, purification of the inner being becomes hampered, traces of arrogance creeps in, and slowly, one could end up being tormented in the 'lower realms', even though there had been years put in to spiritual practices (and wasted). Its similar to a brand new car that is left too long near the sea - the breeze alone can rust the car after a while. We cant see the breeze, yet its effect can be very obvious.

 

So in many ways, maintaining good virtue of thoughts, words and deeds are quite crucial. This ensures the 'breeze of samsara' is kept at bay, and we can remain 'rust-free', even after many years of hard work on the cultivation side of things. This is one end of the 'Retention' business. Its a kind of 'jing' - mind 'jing'. When we observe these very basic rules, then amulets will enhance our pursuit; If not, like many people in SE Asia who painstakingly accrue charms and hang 12 to 15 amulets around their necks to ward off outside evil, yet inside they remain deluded and ignorant, which is an even bigger 'evil'. Better to have one proper mind-amulet, hardened and polished like a diamond... indestructible, and forever shining by its own light!

 

 

 

(just some devi-ated thoughts, after reading some of jK's expressive posts)

[C T]

Padmasambhava once told fellow yogis and yoginis to take heed on the spiritual path.

 

He said to all, "Even though your 'View' is as vast as the sky, let your conduct be more refined than barley flour."

 

The spiritual path is full of traps.

 

Even highly-realized individuals, who has honed their spiritual 'self', if they cannot at the same time let go of this 'self', can and will remain trapped in the quagmire of ego and as a result their spiritual 'behavior' can still be tainted with pompousness and judgmental attitudes. This can be a source of great suffering, even greater than those who are actually not on the 'path'.

 

Haven't we all seen how so-called Masters, even after years of teaching and accumulating thousands of students, can still succumb to irrational thoughts and less than moral actions?

 

I can say for sure that acquiring amulets and pendants, which many Asians have a weakness for, cannot help, if fundamentally there is no harmony between one's spiritual attainments and normal, everyday behavior in terms of interacting with others. Because of this, purification of the inner being becomes hampered, traces of arrogance creeps in, and slowly, one could end up being tormented in the 'lower realms', even though there had been years put in to spiritual practices (and wasted). Its similar to a brand new car that is left too long near the sea - the breeze alone can rust the car after a while. We cant see the breeze, yet its effect can be very obvious.

 

So in many ways, maintaining good virtue of thoughts, words and deeds are quite crucial. This ensures the 'breeze of samsara' is kept at bay, and we can remain 'rust-free', even after many years of hard work on the cultivation side of things. This is one end of the 'Retention' business. Its a kind of 'jing' - mind 'jing'. When we observe these very basic rules, then amulets will enhance our pursuit; If not, like many people in SE Asia who painstakingly accrue charms and hang 12 to 15 amulets around their necks to ward off outside evil, yet inside they remain deluded and ignorant, which is an even bigger 'evil'. Better to have one proper mind-amulet, hardened and polished like a diamond... indestructible, and forever shining by its own light!

 

 

 

(just some devi-ated thoughts, after reading some of jK's expressive posts)