Cultivating while keeping it in my pants

[Kali Yuga]

I consider myself lucky to be taught a certain taoist method of cultivation.

 

However there is a problem: I if can't keep it in my pants I have to stop training for a period. It is the rule to this method of training. Nothing much, just a few days and thats it. Don't debate about how good or bad retention is, because in my method this rule is matter of fact and not philosophical conjecture.

 

Problem being that I find myself so sexual that I find myself drowning in the period where I am to not practice. I go out to have fun, because I am bored, and there just happens to be a girl so pretty that I just have to talk to her and one thing leads to another. Bam another period stopping. I wake up and find myself longing for some company cuz I'm missing a certain someone, find myself checking out porn on the laptop.. and you fellas get the rest. Chalk up another week.

 

I have to laugh at myself, really, i find this funny. I want to do my method at the same time I have this animal drive inside of me that I have to deal with.. And it gets in the way, seriously! I have found myself in the damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. If I cultivate, I can focus hard-core on the meditation but then again have to supress the beast in me and avoid hot women and orgasms. The animal energy gets pent up. On the other hand, if I let "junior" have it his way, I will have orgasms (and boy those are fun lol) but have to stop training and stop development! Its getting to the point where it really starting to slow me down.

 

Why are women so attractive and sexy? Damnit! This is frustrating! Hahaha.

 

Anyone have any tips on dealing with this? I am not planning on pursuing another form of cultivation so going to something else is out of the question..

 

tips anyone? advice and suggestions on dealing with this, especially those who have tread this particular kind of problem before..

Edited September 18, 2010 by Kali Yuga

[Fire Dragon]

Hello

 

I have a suggestion to you. It is also a practise that is adviced by Mantak Chia, I think. Have forgotten if it realy was he that suggested it or somebody else.

 

But I think it might help you!

 

Find an older woman as a partner. An older women is less physically atractive than a younger women. An older women has a less tight vagina, so it might be easier to keep your retention practise when being with her. Stay away from all other women and porn and keep a longer relationship with this older woman. perhaps for many years. I think in my system they say that it takes about four years to learn to practise the retention while being with a women. If she is wery interested in yoga or qigong you can also learn to practise together.

 

This was one thing that I come to think about. And there is alot of woman interested in yoga that realy want to have a male partner that is interested in retention, so it might not be hard to find someone you realy like or love to!

 

 

FD

[effilang]

 

Find an older woman as a partner. An older women is less physically atractive than a younger women. An older women has a less tight vagina, so it might be easier to keep your retention practise when being with her. Stay away from all other women and porn and keep a longer relationship with this older woman. perhaps for many years. I think in my system they say that it takes about four years to learn to practise the retention while being with a women. If she is wery interested in yoga or qigong you can also learn to practise together.

 

 

I'm sorry man, but that just made me mega LOL

 

 

I'll have you know btw, that an older woman, whether less physically attractive or not can blow your mind sexually compared to most young gals out there... And i'm not even talking about vaginal or anal sex. It is all in the mind trust me. More experienced women can take sex to a whole new level, so i have to HUGELY disagree with your recommendations. I also don't like the way you objectify women, but thats just me.

 

[Astral_Anima]

If you are asking ways to lower the hold your "inner animal" has on you there's no better way than fasting or sum simple dietary changes. Gluttony and Lust are directly related to each other in the sense that one will lead to the other. Fasting takes care of this and awakens your REAL "Inner Power" Also if you simply adhere to a vegetarian diet, preferably high in sprouts, that too will lower sex drive. Animal products have long been known to increase "desire" as has garlic and onion. Also you may want to set your foundation and practice detachment. Personally I've found "Fight Club" to be a great example of detachment , just pay attention to Brad Pitt's character.

 

Also...just stay away from women for awhile. Shut off your laptop, get out of the house and spend sum time in nature. Idk where you live, if it's too cold or anything but even sitting in your yard with a quilt around you, or just keeping the windows open getting the fresh air, try to get sum sunlight, if you can let your bare feet touch the earth. All of these are subtle healers that will help balance your mind. Again though, fasting and/or dietary change along with detachment is by far the most effective way I've found to regaining control of your actions.

 

Are you okay with not having the ultimate say in what you do?

 

-Astral

Edited September 17, 2010 by Astral_Anima

[Maddie]

You asked the question that has pretty much been the major problem I have been seeking a solution for ever since the beginning of my pracitce. After having asked this sort of question for a few years now, and also after having really not recieved any good answer I have been trying to figure it out on my own. I'm not sure if you read my musings on the Middle Dan Tien thread but I feel like my experimentation has been leading me to get the results I want in that direction (the results I want are the same as you seemed to indicate). After much trial and error, experimentation, and meditation I seem to so far have made the most progress in this area while working on the Middle Dan Tien area (including the organs that fall with in its area, heart, lungs, ect.) I theorize that if a man's middle dan tien is blocked then it might increase the pressure seeking to escape through his more opened lower areas. Additionally one of the major problem areas of the heart meridian is over excitement. Over excitement would definately describe my reaction to seeing a good looking woman. I also think that sometimes we guys seek women/sex as a way to boost our morale when it is low. The lungs are also in the middle dan tien area and their main problem emotion is sadness. So if we are feeling lonely, bored, dull, (all the various flavors of sad) then I think our lung meridian causes us to feel in such a way that we want to reduce those feelings (fire "the heart" melts metal "lungs" = excitement reduces the blahs).

The middle dan tien / heart center is the part of us that desires to connect with others on an emotional level. The sexual organs (in the lower dan tien area) also want to "connect" but in an obviously different way (not good nor bad just different). So lets take person X with a closed middle dan tien relative to his lower dan tien. Person Y has a more open middle dan tien relative to thier lower. It is reasonable to assume that person X is going to be attracted to others sexaully faster (energy follows the path of least resistance) and person Y is going to be more likely attracted to others emotionally sooner. Most often person X is how men are wired and person Y is how women tend to be wired.

So all of that is to basically say that I think that if we work on removing blockages from our middle dan tien area our energy will then have more than one gate through which to easily exit. The method which I have been using to accomplish this is a combination of heart and lung healing sounds and inner smile, as well as breathing into the middle dan tien much like we do with our lower dan tien. This has so far been seeming to move me in the direction I want to be going in. Hope this helps, and any other insights would be appreciated.

[Fire Dragon]

[goldisheavy]

I consider myself lucky to be taught a certain taoist method of cultivation.

 

However there is a problem: I if can't keep it in my pants I have to stop training for 3 days. It is the rule to this method of training. Nothing much, just 3 days and thats it. Don't debate about how good or bad retention is, because in my method this rule is matter of fact and not philosophical conjecture.

 

Problem being that I find myself so sexual that I find myself drowning in the period where I am to not practice. I go out to have fun, because I am bored, and there just happens to be a girl so pretty that I just have to talk to her and one thing leads to another. Bam another 3 day period. I wake up and find myself longing for some company cuz I'm missing a certain someone, find myself checking out porn on the laptop.. and you fellas get the rest. Chalk up another 3 days.

 

I have to laugh at myself, really, i find this funny. I want to do my method at the same time I have this animal drive inside of me that I have to deal with.. And it gets in the way, seriously! I have found myself in the damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. If I cultivate, I can focus hard-core on the meditation but then again have to supress the beast in me and avoid hot women and orgasms. The animal energy gets pent up. On the other hand, if I let "junior" have it his way, I will have orgasms (and boy those are fun lol) but have to stop training and stop development! Its getting to the point where it really starting to slow me down.

 

Why are women so attractive and sexy? Damnit! This is frustrating! Hahaha.

 

Anyone have any tips on dealing with this? I am not planning on pursuing another form of cultivation so going to something else is out of the question..

 

tips anyone? advice and suggestions on dealing with this, especially those who have tread this particular kind of problem before..

 

Well, I'll do my best. From my POV, the practice of pacifying or of transmuting sexual energy is rooted in the view that the worldly life is not worth getting involved in. In more than one Daoist writing I got this impression very strongly, and to some extent I even share such view myself. So the view becomes that this world, together with your body, is a vehicle for spiritual practice. It has no other purpose. So it has no purpose for procreation. It has no purpose for pleasure. You get your pleasure from meditation and from ethereal and ineffable spiritual experiences. That's the general view and attitude.

 

Now, if you truly, from the bottom of your heart, buy into this view, then maintaining celibacy or transmuting your sexual energy is not hard. Furthermore, if you have a high sexual drive, lowering it is easy using contemplation of undesirable quality of sex objects. Be aware, that this results in a stably lowered sexual drive such that if you ever want to get your drive back, you'll need to practice the same way you had to practice to lower it, namely by contemplation of attractive and enticing qualities of sex objects. So while it is reversible, it is not a joke to reverse it, so don't make any hasty or foolish decisions you will regret later. Be true to yourself and don't try to lie to yourself about who you are and what you want from life, even if who you are and what you want is changing, you have to be moment-by-moment honest to yourself.

 

If you believe this world is an enjoyable place and that the purpose of the body is as much for joy and fun as it is for spiritual practice, I think that's a legitimate and valid view, however, celibacy is not a good practice for you and sexual transmutation is also not a good practice for you. You need to be sexual in this view. You have to enjoy girls, masturbation, porn and so on and basically be a little closer to what a normal human being is. Being a celibate hermit is not normal, it is rare and it's not suitable for everyone.

 

For sexually active people there is a practice of Daoist dual cultivation. I believe you need a stable girlfriend or a wife for this practice. Other than that, I don't know any specifics about it. I just understand the principles behind such practice.

 

So you need to do two things.

 

First, decide what you want from life and who you are. Second, decide what kind of practice is compatible with your choice.

 

It sounds to me like your specific practice is not meant for someone who will have a constant stream of "oops'es." In other words, there is a good chance it is not for you.

 

If it so happens that some hermit comes down from a mountain and teaches you something, even though such teaching might be rare and precious and worth memorizing, it may not be a good teaching for you personally. You may want to pass it on to someone else who is meant to be a hermit and perhaps you can't benefit from it yourself. Really a good teacher will take interest in your personality and in your life and will not give you a practice you cannot keep up. So it sounds like your teacher is distant from you emotionally and to put it bluntly, "doesn't give a shit about you." So he/she just gave you a teaching regardless of whether or not you can realistically benefit from it. This might be the case if you purchased this teaching instead of receiving it under the auspices of transcendent spiritual friendship.

Edited September 17, 2010 by goldisheavy

[ShaktiMama]

 

 

Find an older woman as a partner. An older women is less physically atractive than a younger women. An older women has a less tight vagina,

 

FD

 

 

Now isn't that the most insulting, untrue statement I have ever heard.

 

s

[goldisheavy]

Now isn't that the most insulting, untrue statement I have ever heard.

 

s

 

You don't have to take everything you hear seriously.

[effilang]

Now isn't that the most insulting, untrue statement I have ever heard.

 

ShaktiMama (hugs)

 

He is just expressing repressed anger about his lack of experience with older women, thats all

 

You don't have to take everything you hear seriously.

 

But i think he was quite serious as a matter of fact

If you have a realy good relationship with a older women and with mind blowing sex, but learn to keep your sperm, then you have solved the problem. If you at the same time creates a nice loving and caring relationship with mind blowing sex, that is greate!

Well if you can have mind blowing sex and keep from ejaculating and that is your goal, then i don't see any logical reason why that should be limited to only more mature women with as you put it, non-tight vaginas

A leak in your boat somewhere I am sensing, there is.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2010 by effilang

[Aetherous]

I'm sorry man, but that just made me mega LOL

 

Yeah, what a joke.

 

Problem being that I find myself so sexual that I find myself drowning in the period where I am to not practice. I go out to have fun, because I am bored, and there just happens to be a girl so pretty that I just have to talk to her and one thing leads to another. Bam another 3 day period. I wake up and find myself longing for some company cuz I'm missing a certain someone, find myself checking out porn on the laptop.. and you fellas get the rest. Chalk up another 3 days.

 

I know exactly what you mean, since I'm also starting up a method which sorta requires this. Don't know what to tell you.

[goldisheavy]

But i think he was quite serious as a matter of fact

 

Probably, but how is that relevant? You are the captain of your ship, no?

Edited September 17, 2010 by goldisheavy

[mjjbecker]

This is the reason why people who followed these practices in the past lived in isolation from others-certainly during initial stages of training.

 

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html

 

JS: As far as I know Taoists suggest that one should also stop having sex, otherwise the Small and Large Heavenly Circles will never open. Is that true for Bagua Neigong practice as well?

 

MR.MA: Yes, this is very important condition. My teacher told me that at the very beginning - if you want to develop true skill, you must be like a monk, living in celibacy. There is a story about "Coal" Ma, who was selling coal in Beijing's Caishikou. When he started to study Baguazhang from Dong Haichuan, he took his quilt and moved out to live in the shop. He lived there for three years and did not return home even once during that time.

 

Your body requires one week to recover after one sexual intercourse. i.e. come back to the condition before the intercourse. One hundred days is required to recover Original Qi (Yuan Qi) completely (i.e. recover to the condition before one had any sex). About three years is required to open Small Heavenly Circle.

 

JS: What about married people? I'm afraid people who have families will have difficulty with developing any Internal Skill then...

 

MR.MA: There is not a big problem with practice in Middle Basin (Zhong Pan), you can still get Internal Skill. However once you decide to practice Lower Basin you have to stop any sexual activity.

 

JS: What if one decides to practice in Lower Basin without fulfilling that requirement?

 

MR.MA: You will only hurt yourself. Lower Basin is a very demanding practice for the body and it will not be able to endure it. During Lower Basin practice you have to eat well and have good rest. It is like having a bank account. If you draw 1 million dollars from it and then transfer 1 million back it is OK. If you transfer 1 million and one dollar, you will have little saving - surplus energy. However if you transfer only 990 thousand, you will be in dept - your body will not be able to recover from the effort. In this way although your muscles may get stronger, your internal strength, internal potential, will decrease. This phenomena can be easily recognized by hearing one's voice - weak voice, neither loud nor clear, sometimes accompanied by coughing is the symptom of low energy level. Lower Basin method is most suitable for young, unmarried people. Otherwise you have to make the decision to become like a monk for three years...

 

JS: We were talking about Small Heavenly Circle. What about the Large Heavenly Circle (Da Zhou Tian)?

 

MR.MA: Once the Small Circle is opened, the Large will open naturally. There is a saying "Small Achievement comes in three years, Big Achievement - in ten years" (Xiaocheng San Nian Dacheng Shi Nian). One has to live in celibacy for at least six years to achieve true skill. Once the skill comes out, you still have to limit the number of sexual intercourses. Two, three times a week will ruin your skill completely. Once every two, three months is not a big problem.

 

Not every school goes for complete celibacy, but periods of training in isolation do seem to be common.

[Birch]

Probably, but how is that relevant? You are the captain of your ship, no?

 

I am queen of my castle (can't resist an old Seinfelf ref )

 

Look, my take is that if you're not "getting any" (for want of a better expression) then it's a fine time to embrace "retention".

 

Otherwise IMO you're just frustrating yourself (and possibly your very nice partner).

 

Besides, from what I've "read" - guys can train to "plateau" - so you're still having fun, just a different sort.

 

Heart things seem to work. When guys do this they seem to get very, well, "attractive".

 

Back to balance

 

Edit because I just saw this:

 

"Two, three times a week will ruin your skill completely. Once every two, three months is not a big problem."

 

I should be digging out that Kinsey report about married people If what he reported is/was true then most of the West should be on its way to enlightenment

Edited September 18, 2010 by Kate

[Fire Dragon]

[sinno]

i admit ive had the same problem and running the Little Orbit helps tremendously

 

http://precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/moLittleOrbit.htm

Edited September 18, 2010 by sinno

[hervoyel]

I consider myself lucky to be taught a certain taoist method of cultivation.

 

However there is a problem: I if can't keep it in my pants I have to stop training for a period. It is the rule to this method of training. Nothing much, just a few days and thats it. Don't debate about how good or bad retention is, because in my method this rule is matter of fact and not philosophical conjecture.

 

Problem being that I find myself so sexual that I find myself drowning in the period where I am to not practice. I go out to have fun, because I am bored, and there just happens to be a girl so pretty that I just have to talk to her and one thing leads to another. Bam another period stopping. I wake up and find myself longing for some company cuz I'm missing a certain someone, find myself checking out porn on the laptop.. and you fellas get the rest. Chalk up another week.

 

I have to laugh at myself, really, i find this funny. I want to do my method at the same time I have this animal drive inside of me that I have to deal with.. And it gets in the way, seriously! I have found myself in the damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. If I cultivate, I can focus hard-core on the meditation but then again have to supress the beast in me and avoid hot women and orgasms. The animal energy gets pent up. On the other hand, if I let "junior" have it his way, I will have orgasms (and boy those are fun lol) but have to stop training and stop development! Its getting to the point where it really starting to slow me down.

 

Why are women so attractive and sexy? Damnit! This is frustrating! Hahaha.

 

Anyone have any tips on dealing with this? I am not planning on pursuing another form of cultivation so going to something else is out of the question..

 

tips anyone? advice and suggestions on dealing with this, especially those who have tread this particular kind of problem before..

 

A few key phrases might help:

 

1. use will power

2. use will power

3. use will power

4. trash porn

5. meditate regularly

6. regularly read inspirational material to support celibacy

7. (if in a relationship) practice karezza

 

[Maddie]

I've found that in the short term (like I got to deal with this right now) the Big Draw if done right is very effective in helping with this.

[Kali Yuga]

So far all your replies have been pretty darn mind-blowing after me reviewing this thread once again.. You guys are great.

 

However I don't think that I will be pursuing any of the taoist sexual practice techniques.

 

Lately I have gotten over this problem actually. Meditating several times during a day has given me strong awareness of my lower dan tien and everything that goes down there. I actually notice when I have lustful thoughts and emotions my dan tien gets disturbed and feels bad.. Have any of you ever felt this? And even after sex and especially masturbation I seem to go through a period of tiredness and even depression.

 

Tao Semko said something very interesting during one of his free lectures on kundalini which automatically made me give him huge respect -he put it into simple words that anyone could understand. Basically what he said is this. "If you lose your seed the body obviously has to replenish it. It is rich in substance. Thus if your body is spending its energy and nutrients on replacing this semen, it is very possible your glands and hormones could suffer, being as that instead of making high quality hormones your body is busy making sperm. Which translates that you could very well feel a drop in emotional state." Paraphrasing of course. but that was really gold for me.

 

I find this incredibly stupid -that my male urge is to have sex, have more sex and have more and more until you can't even stand anymore. The basic urge is to lose and not gain energy at every opportunity. To bang anything that looks "hot". The body is tired even thought the mind is still willing. Screw until you drop. Not only this but if you examine popular culture anywhere all of it is sex packaged and sold, anywhere you look. On TV's, magazines movies, novels, the internet, our fashion of today, all of it is gearing toward sex. The dude who doesn't get laid is a loser and "the man" is the person who gets laid the most with as many partners as possible.

 

I don't really know anymore regards to my standing with women because I haven't found someone compatibly with me on my personal level yet.. Not that I'm "higher" or they're "lower". It's just I never actually found any of my relationships fulfilling. It's not an insult to my partners before but I wish I had a relationship that where I've had compatibility with someone on something other than sex. cuz then you just feel like a piece of meat.

 

Now I don't have problems regarding keeping it in my pants unlike the prior period. I have found my willpower and focus now. I am just curious however on how my standing with the opposite sex will affect me down the road though. I definitely have things to resolve inside.

 

I have recently awakened a kind of fiery heat in my dan tien. It used to come in about 10 minutes into my session but now I feel it all the time. It started small and then built up in both size and intensity.. It was a pretty cool feeling to get. I was dismayed when it started moving around because I thought I could contain it. I'm still pretty new to all of this. Its stuck at the first chakra still.

 

I found this so silly that I had been doing all this useless MCO stuff without this sensation before.. and just found out that it wasn't the real thing, because the heat moves regardlessly of practicing the mco technique.