What would you teach to the kids

[Pietro]

What you vibrate has WAY more to do with raising good kids than whatever strategy you use.

 

My answer is simple, but not superficial. It is deeper than any philosophy, belief, or technique.

Oh, ok.

 

I did not want to offend you Yoda.

Pietro

 

When I was at Tao Garden (which is a trip I won't repeat, and don't recommend *memories*) there was a woman and husband who lived there (I forget their names) and the woman would "twirl babies". A woman from the local village brought her baby to this woman, and she took the baby by an arm and leg and swung and twirled the baby around in a way that I'd never seen before. It was rather startling, actually. She explained that her husband did that to their kids until they were so heavy that he couldn't any more. The kids, apparently, liked it.

 

The more I've learned about the fascia, the joints, internal martial arts development, how emotions and power flow through the body (or don't), the more I've come to appreciate the "baby twirling". When I told the story to my martial arts instructor, he was very intent upon the story, appreciated it. I think that that practice could profoundly give a child a head-start on health on many levels. Hm, Its sort of like Circular Strength Training for little kids.

Marina. Yes I remember her, and the baby twirling. And I loved the idea of the water birth (but not at 0 degrees, brrr.). Thanks for mentioning it, as I seemed to have forgotten it.

 

What happened at Tao Garden, btw? I went there a few times, and every time was different. Mainly depending on who was there and what was the vibe of Mantak Chia.

 

Pietro

[Trunk]

What happened at Tao Garden, btw? I went there a few times, and every time was different. Mainly depending on who was there and what was the vibe of Mantak Chia.

The problem.. no, the absolute absurdity, was Chia. He has turned into a worse than worthless lecturer and, unfortunately, he was the main lecturer. Meandering stories and absurd techniques.

 

The instructors were good, though. The things that they taught were well done. If Chia simply bowed out and let the instructors do the teaching, it would improve things 10,000 times.

[Yoda]

I did not want to offend you Yoda.

 

We'll have to let our blenders duke it out to find out who's right.

 

-Yoda

 

My parents were progressive and idealistic in many positive ways, but I decided at a young age that I'd be a little 'less serious' with my kids.

[neimad]

The problem.. no, the absolute absurdity, was Chia. He has turned into a worse than worthless lecturer and, unfortunately, he was the main lecturer. Meandering stories and absurd techniques.

 

The instructors were good, though. The things that they taught were well done. If Chia simply bowed out and let the instructors do the teaching, it would improve things 10,000 times.

 

i concur.

 

went there for a course and it was a waste of time and money.

 

have been back though to use the health facilities which are pretty amazing..... blood ozonation is awesome.

[Pietro]

ooh! great topic, Pietro... something I've done a bit of research on (I did my dissertation on the future of education).

 

Firstly children before puberty learn - that's all they do... whether you teach them, dont teach them, whatever happens they learn... they learn implicitly and explicitly they're learning machines! Letting children just 'be' is not possible - because they learn constantly, they learn your values, your beliefs, your behaviours, mannerisms, everything - it's impossible for them to grow up in a vacuum.

 

So to answer you, Pietro, this is how I would raise my kids:

 

Stage 1: Birth... the most important time for your kid - idealy no trauma should occur... it should be quiet (or just a subtle humm) the lights should be low... immediately after birth the child should be in hir mother's and fathers arms, feeling the warmth and energy of both of them.

 

Stage 2: 2 years old... this is when the child starts learning how to control, be controled, politics, emotions etc. The main feedback for children is attention... their aim is to control your attention (it doesn't matter to them what type of attention - as in whether it's shouting and punishing or praising and loving). So they learn how to get your attention and then test boundaries - can they still get your attention if they do x? etc. So what I would do is give them my total, undivided attention when they try to get it the 'right way'.

 

Stage 3: 6-7 years old... At this stage children start learning how to use symbols, maps, concepts. I would teach my children how to read well, write (spell) well, use mathematics, and also communicate using art (visual, musical, movement etc) obviously I'd be doing some of this earlier in their life too... but at this stage it will be far more focused.

 

Stage 4: Puberty. At this point kids learn about sexuality, how to attract partners etc. I wouldn't teach much explicitly at this point - I'd teach by example through my behaviour with my wife.

 

Those are the basics, but there are a number of other things that would be taught (both explicitly and implicitly) throughout their growing up period.

 

The Body: Most 'average' parents only really pay attention to a child's face (you'll notice how most people during interaction hold most of their attention/energy in their face)... it will be very important for me to teach them by example that the whole body deserves attention - I'd encourage body-based activities, I'd let them see me doing my excersises and encourage them to play. The only actual technique I'd teach them would be the inner smile... but if they wanted to learn the stuff I was doing I'd teach that to them too.

 

The Senses: This is very important imo. I would teach them sensory accuity - visual (internal and external - i.e. seeing subtle changes in a person's posture, face etc. and internal as in the pictures they make in their mind... we all do it but most of us arent concious of them - my kids would be)... Auditory internal/external (the subtle changes in people's voices the sounds of animals and movement etc. and internal sounds that they represent in their mind)

 

...and ofcourse Kinesthetic... this would be a major area - Firstly I would teach them to recognise emotions by the very specific feelings in their bodies... also let them playfully discover their internal energetics and the feeling of other people... and related to the body they would learn about movement and the relation of their bodies to the outside. Also in terms of eating and nutrition I will let them try all kinds of different foods, and encourage them to notice how the food 'feels'... or the effect of the food on their bodies. I'd teach them to notice when they have had enough to eat (rather than forcing them to finish the plate of food) and encourage them to try any type of food the felt inclined to try (be it sweets, mcdonalds etc) knowing that they would be paying attention to the effect of the food.

 

At the tail end of puberty (arround 16 - 17 yrs old) I would devise a ritual... although it will be more like a trial or challenge... something very difficult and possibly scary... when they pass their challenge they will become an adult and this will be celebrated. After this I would teach them about their organs, the microcosmic orbit and other aspects of the energetic cosmology (the wuji gong's a great idea, Pietro) this will be their innitiation into the mystery...

 

Thank you very much freeform for having taken up the challenge. Your post is a mine of info and it will take me some time to go through all of it. Btw, is your dissertation available?

 

I personally don't think wuji qigung can be anything but the last practice. Mainly because once you do it you haven't got a clue who what is coming up. You do it and suddenly you realise all that you are doing is now old and life is waiting for you in TogaToga. For this I think it can only be shared when a person is legally able to go anywhere. As well as, any practice that you think they should have probably should be shared before.

 

I like your idea of letting a person feel how a food feels like and the changes it does. It might even be experimental with everybody eating in different ways for a period. Now we all go vegan! Now we all go raw meat! I like to play!

 

I am not sure about the sexuality stage (only by example), but I have no clue for now of anything better.

 

Again thanks for the long response.

 

Pietro

[Pietro]

We'll have to let our blenders duke it out to find out who's right.

 

Hmm. I might take of my 5 juicer, which is now a little army, and charge!

But however it goes please don't do like last time.

 

My parents were progressive and idealistic in many positive ways, but I decided at a young age that I'd be a little 'less serious' with my kids.

 

Yes. I agree with Sean that is a nice place to be. I am not sure though that that is the direction I am going myself. Of all the fathers and father figures I met in my life, the ones that where really helpful where taking their job as a father seriously. Not without playing, and not using seriousity to avoid, for example, to play or to put in discussion themselves. But there was a method in their madnes. Although sometimes you had to ask to realise it. On the other extreme where men who pretty much gave the responsability to raise the kids to the mother, and only enjoyed them on weekend. And those where, unfortunately, the most common.

 

Beside teaching by example requires to be present. Which in modern world is not always possible.

 

The problem.. no, the absolute absurdity, was Chia. He has turned into a worse than worthless lecturer and, unfortunately, he was the main lecturer. Meandering stories and absurd techniques.

 

The instructors were good, though. The things that they taught were well done. If Chia simply bowed out and let the instructors do the teaching, it would improve things 10,000 times.

 

Yes, thanks for answering. TG was always very good because of the diversity of all the instructors. And Chia was generally good for the vibes that you get. Last time I saw him, in Wengen, he was using power points slide to explain meditations. Something like that can easily turn into a boring lecture. But Trip sees him fairly regularly and might be able to tell if his lessons are often like that or no.

 

Pietro

[Pietro]

They have children and are ethically fucked up and IMO would do well do shield their kids from some of their own pathologies.

Hello Sean,

Although I understand what you mean here. I would like to add that one of the things that is coming up with Bruce is how this 'shielding' from the parents, is one of the main causes to some of the biggest problems that people face in the meditation path. It tend to create some sort of gaps (the technical term used is 'fog') that makes it really hard for a person to progress. Of course in some situation that is better than the alternative, but it really shows, IMO, how importnat is it to solve as much as possible of your own stuff before having kids.

 

But Fog is not created also by that. There are plenty of reason why fog is created. But I cannot speak about it because it is an issue which is absolutley in the future for me.

 

P.S. thanks for having tried to make my post a bit nicer.

I don't know if it is the raw food or the dissolving, but I find myself getting more and more direct as time goes by. Seeing how direct Bruce is it might very well be the dissolving!

 

Pietro

[Yoda]

A lot of parents care more about what others think of their parenting than the kid's feelings.

 

Fortunately, our generation has more freedom to make the decision that we don't care wtf society thinks and do it our own way.

 

Here in Columbia, SC everyone is talking about homeschooling. 20 years ago it was illegal. Now, it's an option for everyone.

[GrandTrinity]

Yes. if you look at how kids are raised in traditional society, from hunter gatherer society, to traditional villages, one thing that they have in common is that they all give much importance to passing the values of society to the next generation. In case of native american those values where also the ability to be an individual person, and think for yourself.

 

The agreement seem to be that while a girl becomes a women naturally by becoming old, a boy does not become a man if some teachings are not given. And the more I go on the more I feel this being true. There are some psychological books around which stress this out, too.

 

I do agree that the ability to keep an open mind with a scientific form of enquiry going on in dealing with reality is important.

the way in which things are presented is often so impotant to make the concept of voluntary/coercitive an ill posed duality

Interesting, and I probably agree with you, if I could understand what you meant.

What are :Physical education classes" and how do they "drain peoples essence"?

And I do agree that this mind/physical division is not doing any good!

Ok, so you are teaching them breathing, meditation, massage, movement and nutrition. That's quite something!

 

How can you decide if someone can handle the stress before he is subject to it? And what can you do after you have explained all that and they are in great stress? tell them it was all false?

 

My father, teached me to consider everybody as human beings, and in this way I pretty much managed never to demonize anybody. I think I would teach that too.

 

With the proper curriculum of breathing, meditation, massage, movement and nutrition the child could handle ANY stress and save the world even...physical ed is like gym class. The thing with it is that they drain essence by using only physical and not respecting the body/mind connection, like the subtle.

[hagar]

Eventhough I am on a strict sabbatical from the discussionboards, I can't resist to comment on this thread. Thanks to Pietro for bringing it up.

 

My boy is now 9 weeks, and all the questions and themes raised here are storming through my mind. As for now, I am both totally overwhelmed, totally happy, totally miserable, and lost most of the time.

 

For now, I have nothing to teach him, but give hime my love. He has started to smile and laugh when I arrive home from work, and when I wake him in the morning there is this wonderful moment when he's just blank space, like he is not of this world. Then he farts, smiles and when I pick him up, I feel like having the universe in my lap.

 

The thing I feel about parenthood is that it puts me on the spot. There is nowhere to hide, nowhere to go. I am nailed to this life, this person for the rest of my days. And then all my good intentions quickly smolder and reality comes knocking. There is no more time for picking up my rope, call my buddy and go climbing in the afternoon, no more winters in the Alps, and for now, no more retreats. Funny, but fatherhood has taught me how very shallow my understanding of the dao really is, and how much I need to adjust myself to this little being. The most frightening moment was when I realized that he is completely open. All the information comes straight in. If I pick him up and I am supressing my anger, he reacts instantly. So in this way he is like a mirror. And my greatest teacher.

 

I am becoming aware that everything I do has a direct consequence on him and it is psyching me out to say the least. The only thing I feel I can do is constantly come back to the present moment, constantly let go of whatever I am holding onto, and try to see the world through his eyes. (and through the fog of stinky diapers, which actually contain military green mustard)

 

THanks to Pietro, Yoda, Grand T and all you other guys for giving me alot to ponder.

 

PS: One mysterious thing I have noticed when I walk around with my kid on my shoulder in the street is that I get alot of attention from women. I mean, ALOT. Ofcourse, I don't tell my girlfriend this....

 

h

[Yoda]

Hagar,

 

Women find good fathers to be very sexy. Makes sense.

 

The thing to remember is that after around 4 months, things get a lot easier. My interpretation of this is that it takes about that much time for the newborn's spirit to get comfortable with having a body. Until you get to that point, it's hard to keep your vibration very steady and positive. After that, it's much easier. You are almost there!

 

Raise them like wild Vikings, so they'll have the energy to live more passionately.

 

-Yoda

 

Pietro,

 

I agree about not shielding kids. Can't be done anyways. By shielding them, you are sending them the message that you don't think they can handle their own life and you undermine their confidence and aggression.

 

-Yoda

[GrandTrinity]

How the child is a mirror? Same with our inner child. I see the inner child as a reflection of all children, how we educate them is essential. Imagine if as a child we knew what we know now? Imagine if we were born into knowing how to live as one with the tao? If you were taught the healing sounds, orbit and inner smile in 1st grade? Along with the abc's? Yoga? Self massage and about nutrition? Imagine if you maintained your purity from birth on all 4 dimensions? Imagine if you were raised to be enlightened? Seeing the darkness of your internal space and the light of nature...I think all youth should have that chance, dont you? The opportunity to be enlightened before they get so messed up?

Edited May 16, 2006 by GrandTrinity

[TwoTrees]

Got to live . . .

won't die

Don't sweat

small things

Why cry ?

Dead to none . . .

walk by

Next to none . . .

Ah, the Sun

Want a lot . . .

only get some

Overcome,

has been

long ago . . .

Your expense ?

No show

drained with

incoming loss . . .

Your expense ?

Short cost,

sampler of

no fear -

must see,

must hear

Condense . . .

love's tense . . .

this life -

...many and

no sense.

 

-for starters.

[neimad]

Ah, the Sun

Want a lot . . .

 

me too

 

love those golden rays....

 

 

 

How the child is a mirror? Same with our inner child. I see the inner child as a reflection of all children, how we educate them is essential. Imagine if as a child we knew what we know now? Imagine if we were born into knowing how to live as one with the tao? If you were taught the healing sounds, orbit and inner smile in 1st grade? Along with the abc's? Yoga? Self massage and about nutrition? Imagine if you maintained your purity from birth on all 4 dimensions? Imagine if you were raised to be enlightened? Seeing the darkness of your internal space and the light of nature...I think all youth should have that chance, dont you? The opportunity to be enlightened before they get so messed up?

 

or.... and here is a HUGE one....

 

what if you were taught not to give up any of those things!?!?!?!???

 

children when left naturally do yoga, give themselves massages and i am certain circulate energy freely around their bodies plus they see all kinds of things outside of our 5-sense dimension (think 'imaginary' friends). if we let them play and explore creatively, without imposing/enforcing limits upon them and we lead by example in our own practices while letting them come to whatever aspect interests them.... i am certain they would be well on the way.

 

we are born to be enlightened, but somewhere along the way we get somehow derailed.

 

our state of disconnection, dissatisfaction, unhappiness, etc, etc is all a conditioned one.

we are nothing but beings of light and beyond that we are nothing but god/the tao/the universe/the cosmic/infinite love.

[Trunk]

My boy is now 9 weeks, ...

Congrats, Hagar.

Good to hear from you.

[hagar]

Thanks Keith

 

Since I'm sliding down a slippery slope of participating in discussions again, I can try to finish it off with a question for you guys to poder;

 

I tend to get burning hot while holding my boy. As I walk around and try to make him sleep on my shoulder, I start to sweat, and it ends with me having to walk around in my underwear to stand it. What's your thoughts on this?

 

This, I think is not just ordinary heat, but the "heat" of coplete Yang energy. My master explained that when we are children, our spirit is contained, and whole, while at a certain age we become like waning comets, quite literally. In the TTC, chapter 55 it says:

 

"He who attains to the highest teh of simplicity and sincerity, may be compared to the ingenuousness of an infant. Poisonous insects do not sting their own young, wild beasts do not attack their own cubs, nor do birds of prey. A baby's bones may be weak and its muscles soft, but its spiritual vitality is perfect. An infant does not know about the relation of the sexes, but gradually its generative vigor will develop. Its spirit is virile, indeed! It may sob and cry all day but will not become hoarse. His unity as a child is perfect.

 

To understand how to preserve this unity and soundness, one must return to his original state of simplicity. To know how to return to one's original state is to be enlightened. To increase one's natural vigor means blessedness. To control one's breathing means strength. Things that are fully grown begin to decay, for growth is contrary to the principle of TAO. Things that are contrary to TAO soon pass away."

 

Enough said.

 

h

[voice]

I tend to get burning hot while holding my boy. As I walk around and try to make him sleep on my shoulder, I start to sweat, and it ends with me having to walk around in my underwear to stand it. What's your thoughts on this?

 

This, I think is not just ordinary heat, but the "heat" of coplete Yang energy.

 

Hagar,

 

Thanks for reminding me of that heat - I remember it now from when my son was a baby. I think you are right - it is the heat of unconditioned heart energy. It is wonderful to feel such strong fatherly love.

 

Your comments also remind me of a client of my wife's (she is a massage and feldenkrais therapist), who said how incredibly reiki-hot my wife's hands were during a session. My wife's perception was that she was not hot, but that her client was releasing holding patterns that resulted in heat. So, maybe the yuan state of your baby is releasing holding patterns in you, that result in heat release.

 

The act of creating and caring for a baby is so powerful beyond our usual consciousness. I remember my orgasm when our son was conceived -- suddenly blasting through my head were the words "BRING ME A BOY!!!", which was a real surprise since I THOUGHT that I wanted a girl.

 

I hope you can keep sharing about your experiences about fatherhood, as you are so perceptive.

 

Chris

Edited May 17, 2006 by voice

[Pietro]

I hope you can keep sharing about your experiences about fatherhood, as you are so perceptive.

 

I am so happy that this fatherly energy gets expressed.

[Trunk]

Thanks for reminding me of that heat -

Glad that Chris chimed in, cause I hadn't a clue!

(Hope both you & your wife are eating well during this pedal-to-the-metal time, though.)

 

"BRING ME A BOY!!!"

Wow!

[Yoda]

"He who attains to the highest teh of simplicity and sincerity, may be compared to the ingenuousness of an infant. Poisonous insects do not sting their own young, wild beasts do not attack their own cubs, nor do birds of prey. A baby's bones may be weak and its muscles soft, but its spiritual vitality is perfect. An infant does not know about the relation of the sexes, but gradually its generative vigor will develop. Its spirit is virile, indeed! It may sob and cry all day but will not become hoarse. His unity as a child is perfect.

 

 

Babies don't have the focus of a CEO, rockstar, or Guru, but ***nobody*** comes close to the openess of a baby. They are the closest thing to free spirit on the planet.

 

People like holding babies to get some free energy work!

[thelerner]

I used to love walking w/ my babies in a Bjorn(a frontal papoose). It was amazing the heat they'd generate.

 

I guess you teach by example and by story. Stories from your past, good and bad. I tell my kids stories from comic books, origins of super heroes, etc, plus I make up stories and story lines for them. Stories about their grand parents.

 

Kids seem to have strong dispositions toward things. Its best to lay off the, 'My son will be an enlightened, vegetarian, yogic, martial wonderkind'. Despite plans and common sense you end up saying, "Put that chicken McNugget in your mouth and stop throwing'em at your sister."

 

Michael

[Yoda]

"Put that chicken McNugget in your mouth and stop throwing'em at your sister."