Dissolving inner/outer difference?

[patbb]

Hello!

 

I've read the book by Bruce Frantzis and the part where he explain dissolving is a bit unclear for me.

 

I have experience with Vipassana so i can see the blockages very easily.

 

My question is, is my understanding proper?

 

- outer dissolving: is simply to look at a blockage, stare at it until it dissolve.

once it dissolve, is there anything else to do? it seems to me that when a blockage dissolve, it just sort of evaporate.

If a blockage does not dissolve, should i stop staring after a while? is there some guidelines as to how long one should try to dissolve a blockage before giving up and moving on?

What do do if a blockage does not dissolve?

 

- inner dissolving: something about dissolving layers. Im really not sure what does this entail and how to do this.

Is it like vipassana where you just notice all of the little sensations/blockages?

And the only act of noticing them will dissolve a layer of them so they will get weaker and weaker with each body scans?

 

 

 

Any help will be very very appreciated!

 

 

thank you so much!

Edited September 20, 2010 by patbb

[Encephalon]

Hello!

 

I've read the book by Bruce Frantzis and the part where he explain dissolving is a bit unclear for me.

 

I have experience with Vipassana so i can see the blockages very easily.

 

My question is, is my understanding proper?

 

- outer dissolving: is simply to look at a blockage, stare at it until it dissolve.

once it dissolve, is there anything else to do? it seems to me that when a blockage dissolve, it just sort of evaporate.

If a blockage does not dissolve, should i stop staring after a while? is there some guidelines as to how long one should try to dissolve a blockage before giving up and moving on?

What do do if a blockage does not dissolve?

 

- inner dissolving: something about dissolving layers. Im really not sure what does this entail and how to do this.

Is it like vipassana where you just notice all of the little sensations/blockages?

And the only act of noticing them will dissolve a layer of them so they will get weaker and weaker with each body scans?

 

 

 

Any help will be very very appreciated!

 

 

thank you so much!

 

I hope you get the answer you're looking for, because I'm about to buy the book (Vol.2) to get the same answer. Amazon does a great job of removing page 100 from the "search" feature, which happens to be the page that introduces the method.

 

I naturally gravitate toward the dissolving method when I meditate because it's, well, natural; the blockages reveal themselves easily enough and I just go there. I too am looking forward to the next step of dissolving emotional blockages, all three million of them.

 

I don't suppose you could PM me page 100?

[johndoe2012]

from astraldynamics.com forum:

 

Just a short heads up because I found something that helped myself.

 

I've been practising parts of the Dissolving Process rather long, but I lacked more and more the feeling of progress, of a "breakthrough". So I re-examined all the parts of the process to see what I've been missing.

 

The process is described rather (and deceptively) simple:

 

1) Find one of the conditions that let you identify a blockage - sensations of strength, tension, contraction or anything that does not feel quite right.

2) Wait/Observe/Keep in touch with this sensation.

3) Follow the energy inside./Follow the sensation of the energy./Feel the energy that keeps creating it.

 

This way you go deeper and deeper into the blockage, layer by layer, till it resolves.

 

The problem I identified for myself was that I had no idea to do the third - follow it inside. I've heard this advice hundreds of times, but when I reviewed what I was doing, I found I had no idea if I was doing it or not or doing it right or how it is done. Inside where? Inside how? I had tried many things but I was unsure of whether they worked and did what they should.

 

At the same time I felt that my ability to release had gotten rather strong - something I could release went quickly and almost instantly. But then I would be stuck. Painful sensations would arise and the level of tension intensify without any further resolution.

 

So I tried something simple, following a sudden inspiration, and simply asked inwardly "What is creating this?" and I felt my focus shift/drift/open and change, whatever you may call it. For a while I simply went with that, but that was not enough. It did not help resolve the blockage. Just asking to go inside gives you the "right direction", but not the resolution.

 

By trial and error I realised there are two components to this: Staying with the obvious energy until it releases and then going in deeper. So my new practice is like this:

 

1) Find any of the conditions that signify a blockage.

2) Stay with it until it changes/releases.

3) Ask "What is creating/causing this?"

 

This changed the whole thing for me. It has brought stronger, more lasting releases. It brought real relief.

 

When I felt a strong, uneasy, anxious sensation I just felt it for a short while, and then kept repeating the cycle - asking, feeling, asking feeling. Within a few turns of this I get much better, felt much less "caged in", that uneasy, cramped quality had strongly decreased.

 

When I did this on some severe back tension problems, I felt such a strong release, several big muscles untensed and I felt so full of energy, so awake, I found myself surprised that I could not sleep afterward, I felt like I had drank a big bottle of caffeinated soda before bed.

 

Asking for direction has been helpful in another respect. Instead of tightening up more and more, I felt like I drifted from layer to layer, like my focus opened and "locked back on". It helped me stay relaxed longer, stay with the energy longer, because it felt like I had to do nothing, almost as if it was done for me. Posing that question inward allowed me to go from blockage layer to blockage without having to know or decide where to go or how to do it. Some intelligence within already knows. I just need to ease my grip on the wheel somewhat. I don't need to know. It's more like I need to trust.

 

So, I hope somebody else finds this useful too.

 

Oliver�

 

hope you find it helpful.

[johndoe2012]

Hello!

 

I've read the book by Bruce Frantzis and the part where he explain dissolving is a bit unclear for me.

 

I have experience with Vipassana so i can see the blockages very easily.

 

 

Could you explain why you are interested in this method when you already know vipassana?

[patbb]

from astraldynamics.com forum:

hope you find it helpful.

yes i did find this useful.

 

But this is the unguided personnal experience from some person i know nothing about, his own unguided trial and error.

 

Nothing wrong with that and he may have found the right technique, but i was looking for something different.

 

I was looking for a clear explanation of a technique taught by a master (doesn't have to be the master own word, it can be explained by a practitionner but i was looking specifically for this kind of instruction.)

 

the proper how-to.

 

 

Thank you very much for your generosity for having taken the time to read my question and dig up this answer!

Edited September 20, 2010 by patbb

[patbb]

hello,

 

thank you for your question!

Could you explain why you are interested in this method when you already know vipassana?

Because it is different from Vipassana (at least as far as i understand it).

it seems to be a more direct aproach to deal with blockages,

because i did the outer dissolving technique (at least i think i did if i understand it properly) by accident with amazing result!

(I dissolved a phenomenally intense migraine, and it never came back! people who had migraines in their life will certainly understand how big of a deal this is )

 

And if the technique is anything like i imagine it is, i believe it would be a great fit with my natural tendency to approach things, a more direct way to deal with these things, and a new tool in my toolbox to change things up.

 

thanks again for your interest and question!

Edited September 20, 2010 by patbb

[Pablo]

hello,

 

thank you for your question!

 

Because it is different from Vipassana (at least as far as i understand it).

it seems to be a more direct aproach to deal with blockages,

because i did the outer dissolving technique (at least i think i did if i understand it properly) by accident with amazing result!

(I dissolved a phenomenally intense migraine, and it never came back! people who had migraines in their life will certainly understand how big of a deal this is )

 

And if the technique is anything like i imagine it is, i believe it would be a great fit with my natural tendency to approach things, a more direct way to deal with these things, and a new tool in my toolbox to change things up.

 

thanks again for your interest and question!

 

Hi!

 

Could you please chime in the "taoist practice and cycles of insight" thread? It's about vipassana and taoist practices. I think your opinion will be appreciated.

[Guru Grimmer]

yes i did find this useful.

 

But this is the unguided personnal experience from some person i know nothing about, his own unguided trial and error.

 

Nothing wrong with that and he may have found the right technique, but i was looking for something different.

 

I was looking for a clear explanation of a technique taught by a master (doesn't have to be the master own word, it can be explained by a practitionner but i was looking specifically for this kind of instruction.)

 

the proper how-to.

 

 

Thank you very much for your generosity for having taken the time to read my question and dig up this answer!

 

Hey there,

 

I know you're looking for master based instruction on this method, but just thought in case you don't find it, you may like to know this. In the Buddhist mindfulness of breathing and Six Dharma Gates; both the carried books of any student of the Buddha, it is explained that forst you become aware of manifestations, then the roots from which they arise. By deeply realising roots you can transform the result.

 

This is the basic medicine for all illness. Keep in mind that the true freedom comes with advancing through all steps to the final stages of Purification or letting go, that comes with a direct realisation through clear observation/contemplation of the true nature of what is (remember, as I'm sure you know, I'm using words as pointers here only, they can never encapsulate direct experience). That's when you realise directly that it's all an illusion projected by the unlimited mind.

 

Hope that helps if nothing else comes up.

: )

[Procurator]

 

 

My question is, is my understanding proper?

 

- outer dissolving: is simply to look at a blockage, stare at it until it dissolve.

you gotta first ask what the "blockage" dissolves in?

 

when u stare at it there is just you, yr stare and "it", so where does it go?

[Procurator]

That's when you realise directly that it's all an illusion projected by the unlimited mind.

 

 

: )

if it is so unlimited how come it projects all this crap?

[Tess]

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but which Bruce Frantzis book are you referring to please?

[Guru Grimmer]

if it is so unlimited how come it projects all this crap?

 

Unlimited is an attempt to word it ... direct experience is king bro. But you hit the nail on the head, it's unlimited capacity is what allows the means to project all this crap ... or whatever name we have for 'it' : ))

[Jetsun]

Hi I am far from an expert but I have been studying three of the books and also the cd course for a few weeks now along with my daily practise and I had the same question which I think I can answer now.

 

Both outer and inner start with the same process of scanning your body from top of your head, finding a block/tension/something which doesnt feel right/contraction, then staying with the energy of the block meditively with the slight intention to let it go. Now the difference between outer and inner is what you do then; outer dissolving is about staying with the energy until is turns from water to gas then naturally it will be released outwards from the body into outer space; while inner dissolving you look for the energy behind the blockage, then the energy behind that, then the energy behind that etc until you reach a place of stillness or emptyness where you cant go any further then the energy will naturally dissolve or implode bringing the whole structure down.

 

External dissolving is almost like a non violent explosion of your energy by letting it go outwards into the universe, while internal dissolving is about delving into the energy layers of the blockage like peeling an onion until you reach the core which infact is empty or is infinate space which causes an implosion of the energy blockage.

[Birch]

"if it is so unlimited how come it projects all this crap?"

 

This is a VERY good question. I don't know the answer to it. I think we get taught it?

 

I'm not trying to be obtuse on purpose, the limits of language prevent me from explaining this point of view (mine) properly to anyone. Sounds pompous, but language is pompous (it can also be beautiful BTW)

 

Asking "why" or "how come" "A?", is an attempt at understanding from inside a limited perspective. I don't mean limited in a negative way BTW. Sometimes a limited perspective makes things seem easier to deal with? We share our limited perspectives with each other to do neat things for each other all the time.

 

If you ask "Why A?" You already have an idea about whatever you're looking at/dealing with and you're just seeking to confirm it (certainty) by attributing 2 options (I say 2 options because if you ask "why A?" you also by the same token imply "why not A?") My formal logic is a bit crap but hopefully someone better at it than me can help me explain it better in those terms.

 

If we take our own words (or worse, anyone else's ) about things to be the only truth about anything (and this includes ourselves) then we run into this again and again.

 

Words are supposed to be "about things", but they are themselves "things". So words are about themselves.

 

What this has to do with inner/outer dissolving? I guess the words (and images) are "keys" one uses in dissolving to unlock the blocks?

 

Emotions are actual bodily sensations, not what we say about them. Which is another reason shutting down "mind-chatter" is a good call.

[3bob]

this is kinda of out of context but "mind" is not unlimited per-se, for it is limited to mind itself - which it can go around and around in for an unlimited number of times and ways but never beyond itself.

 

Om

[Procurator]

"if it is so unlimited how come it projects all this crap?"

 

This is a VERY good question. I don't know the answer to it. I

 

Answer: because its not.

[Birch]

So itsa lookin like mind is inherently limited.

 

Oh well, I suppose it's still worth pushing the limits on it. Or maybe just shutting it up entirely to get a bit of peace?

 

R_V I looked at your curious question. i think you can probably answer it better than I could. Especially if you can get a "hold" on two very similar bodily sensations and compare them. But I'm not sure if I can even do that. I don't reckon they're ever exactly the same. Sure, some sensations share what seems like common traits, but I've played around with some of them enough to know that context and interpretation seem to go further than I think (or is even useful). What does seem to happen more often is I get a) scared of my own bodily sensations B ) pull back from feeling them.

 

Both of the latter cause real problems. All kinds.

 

Edited because of the thing that happens when I do a b ) without a space between the b and the ) ( )

Edited September 23, 2010 by Kate