Ling-pao pi-fa

[bbsoft0]

The Scripture of the Definitive Methods of the Precious Spirit.

 

This book is recommended at the end of "Teachings of Chung and Lu"

However I can't seem to find this book anywhere.

 

The national library of Australia has it (in chinese)

http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/624877

 

Has any of you looked into this book? What does it contain ?

[Aetherous]

I really wish someone would translate this into English. I've heard good things.

[YMWong]

The book has not only been reprinted many times, so that it is easily available in many forms in chinese, but it has even been translated (in french) many years ago by Farzeen Baldrian-Hussein

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=4k4eqN32I0AC&lpg=PP1&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

YM

[Dreamingawake]

There is no book on the planet I would like to read more! How can such an influential and powerful book not be available in more languages? English for instance?

[Birch]

Why not get a friend (or a new friend ) who speaks French to read it to you?

 

When I asked my first acupuncturist how I could go about learning acupuncture he said "First, you have to learn Chinese. Then you have to do medical studies in Chinese..." I figured I was looking at 10 years hard graft, just to learn basic Chinese

 

And don't get me started on I-ching or Feng Shui or medical qi-gong. Are people equally "masters" of each of these areas or do they specialize?

[exorcist_1699]

 

 

When I asked my first acupuncturist how I could go about learning acupuncture he said "First, you have to learn Chinese. Then you have to do medical studies in Chinese..." I figured I was looking at 10 years hard graft, just to learn basic Chinese

 

 

Most of the Asian students here who , from their Kindergarten years , spend more than 20 years in studying English yet can't write decent English or read complicated English writings. So why grumbling about 10 years?

 

Besides, spending 10 years in exchange for a likely possibility of 1,000 years of worldly life, seems not a bad deal ..

[Niklas]

ooooh what a luck! I can read that book in french! hihiiiiii

hmmm looks interesting, its about taoists who made artificial gold, but it was proven dangerous for the inner alchemy, even mortal, so they stopped they experiences.

but there are no reviews about it anywhere...

[TheTaoBum]

So now you will have a book translated from Classical Chinese to Mandarin to French then finally into English ?

 

Finding some French people ? ROFL come on.

 

Wouldnt it be more logical to ask one of the many Chinese members here, Or is it just me who thinks that way ?

Edited September 28, 2010 by TheTaoBum

[Aetherous]

Are there any Chinese members who are willing to translate it into English? You could self publish it on lulu and make some money.

[TheTaoBum]

Are there any Chinese members who are willing to translate it into English? You could self publish it on lulu and make some money.

 

 

Thats right scotty. Theres the potential to make some decent money for the translator. English is regarded as the Universal Language and even China was made to speak English for the Beijing Olympics.

 

I couldnt be bothered learning Mandarin as i already have my hands full. Taking the time to study another language is simply out of the question. I would like to thank Mr Ymwong however for his wonderful translations on this board sometime ago.

 

If the full manual cannot be translated then i would encourage some others who can read mandarin to share parts of the book here. It only takes a few seconds to translate or copy some words from a book and not hours or weeks .

[gendao]

There is no book on the planet I would like to read more! How can such an influential and powerful book not be available in more languages? English for instance?

I'm surprised Thomas Cleary hasn't tackled it yet...

 

However, translations, particularly of ancient esoterica, is no easy task...

 

People well-versed in English, Chinese & neidan are generally rare by nature. Because those really into deep Chinese culture - are far less likely to be Westernized and fluent in English. And those who are very Westernized - are also very unlikely to be deep into Chinese culture. It's kinda a Catch-22.

 

I definitely wish there was a cheap service or open forum for this type of task, though.

Edited September 28, 2010 by vortex

[TheTaoBum]

I'm surprised Thomas Cleary hasn't tackled it yet...

 

However, translations, particularly of ancient esoterica, is no easy task...

 

People well-versed in English, Chinese & neidan are generally rare by nature. Because those really into deep Chinese culture - are far less likely to be Westernized and fluent in English. And those who are very Westernized - are also very unlikely to be deep into Chinese culture. It's kinda a Catch-22.

 

I agree 100% there. You need somebody who has a great understanding about qigong,taoism, to translate these books.

[UTI]

Well, there is a pdf copy of the chinese version here.

 

For these sort of interesting projects, wouldnt it be reasonable to gather all the available people on taobums and make a joint venture at translating it? I can probably manage a few pages, it isnt that long. Then when the translation work is done, we put it up here and everyone who doesnt speak chinese but has a wide knowledge of neidan and chinese mythology can read through and suggest passages that need revisiting in light of this or that.

 

If we cooperate, this book could be available in english within a month, using basic understanding of classical chinese grammar, and simple tools such as perapera kun and nciku.com.

 

either way, i got the pdf, and if it is interesting enough i will start translating my way through it and perhaps put up what i find in the 道家学说 forum. perhaps there more people can hop on the project, as interest is spurred.

 

then we can publish it on lulu with the proceeds going to the taobums forum

[YMWong]

It is a vaste of time to translate the original unless one is really skilled with Chinese and is familiar with the proper terminology, much better (and way easier) to just translate the French version where much of the 'interpreting' has been done. That book is a work of a second generation scholar of the french school, quite dated in terms of daoist scholarship which has done huge steps in the last 20 years but still much much better then what any wannabe scholar (with all due respect) can do on this board.

Moreover, any and all of these kinds of books cannot be properly (if at all) understood without the oral teaching from a daoist master. In this direction, it makes more sense to read any other study/research on the subject by any of the popular scholars which are now easily available all over the web and through Amazon.

 

Just my opinion of course

 

YM

[bbsoft0]

In this direction, it makes more sense to read any other study/research on the subject by any of the popular scholars which are now easily available all over the web and through Amazon.

 

Just my opinion of course

 

YM

 

Thank you for your answer.

The thing is that I bought some books on Amazon (the list is bellow) and I'm wondering which comes closer to the Ling-pao Pi-fa.

 

"

**Tao of Health, Longevity, and Immortality: The Teachings of Immortals Chung and Lu

*Awakening to Reality: The "Regulated Verses" of the Wuzhen pian, a Taoist Classic of Internal Alchemy

*Qi Gong for Total Wellness: Increase Your Energy, Vitality, and Longevity with the Ancient 9 Palaces System from the White Cloud Monastery

*The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine: A New Translation of the Neijing Suwen with Commentary

*Cultivating the Energy of Life by Hua-yang Liu (Paperback)

**Early Daoist Scriptures (Daoist Classics , No 1)

**Revealing the Tao Te Ching: In-depth Commentaries on an Ancient Classic

*Understanding Reality: A Taoist Alchemical Classic

*The Inner Teachings of Taoism: The essentials of self-transformation according to the Complete Reality School of Taoism, with commentary by Liu I-ming

*The Book of Balance and Harmony: These essays, conversations, poetry, and songs about the secrets of Taoism teach how to live a centered and orderly life

*Practical Taoism - Cleary

*Harmonizing Yin and Yang - Eva Wong

*The Secret of the Golden Flower: A Chinese Book of Life -Wilhelm

*The Secret of the Golden Flower - Cleary

*The Secrets of Chinese Meditation: Self-Cultivatio​n by Mind Control As Taught in the Ch'An, Mahayana and Taoist Schools in China - Charles Luk

*The Jade Emperor's Mind Seal Classic: The Taoist Guide to Health, Longevity, and Immortality -Stuart Olson

**Qigong Teachings of a Taoist Immortal: The Eight Essential Exercises of Master Li Ching-yun -Stuart Olson

*Nourishing the Essence of Life: The Outer, Inner, and Secret Teachings of Taoism - Eva Wong

*Taoist Yoga: Alchemy & Immorta​lity - Charles Luk

*Thunder in the Sky: Secrets on the Acquisition and Exercise of Power

**Vitality, Energy, Spirit: A Taoist Sourcebook (Shambhala Dragon Editions)

*The Magus of Java: Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal - Kosta Danaos

*Taoist Meditation -Thomas Cleary

*Cultivating Stillness - Eva Wong

"

 

I know that are many sites that offer a structured list of steps for Taoist Internal Alchemy Practice.

But just using this books, how would you order them ?

Start with the Secret of the Golden Flower ?

And what comes next ?

 

Even if we won't actually do the practice, some kind of structuring of these books would be nice.

[YMWong]

All of those books and any other are good "for information only".

 

Each one has bad flaws and each one has some good insights.

 

Just read them "for information only", there is no need for 'structured steps' because there is not such a thing in daoism.

 

You are looking for something you don't know with preconceived ideas of what it should be, so it's going to be hard to find it. You can get ideas and information from books, but no practical knowledge.

 

Each school has its own steps and its own rules, some totally opposite to each other, get yourself a teacher and learn from him/her.

 

YM

[exorcist_1699]

I think, the best Taoist Alchemy writings likely come from the Yuan Dynasty (1279~ 1368, A.D.) , the Ming Dynasty(1368~ 1644. A.D.) and the Ching Dynasty(1644~ 1911, A.D.) , that is, the latest 700 years. Why ? Because before the Yuan Dynasty, say the writings of Zhong and Lu , written/ edited in the period of the Tang Dynasty(618~ 907 A.D. ) , are full of strange jargons, deliberately used by the authors to bar "unwanted" readers from knowing the secret of immortality or to test the persistence of the followers in chasing after it . ( By the way ,the said "Ling-pao pi-fa" (靈寶畢法) ,which is said to be written by Zhong Li Quan(鍾離權), sifu of LU, yet its content appears not equal to the style of a great Master . Keen readers can discover that there are too much unrelated and trivial stuff mixed in it, and,in my opinion, they likely were added afterward by those late-comers for the book has a history of over 1,000 years. )

 

However, by doing so, some side effects did arise, for example:

 

- It opens the way for some evil or incorrect,careless interpretations of the secrets of Taoist alchemy .

 

- Many Chinese intellectuals , after years' study of these Taoist writings, still couldn't cross the threshold , so they were discouraged and changed to search the truth in Buddhist Sutra . After all, the magnificence and eloquence of Buddha's teachings are undeniable , and it sounds better than those paragraphs of Taoist writings that are full of strange jargons : tiger, baby, dragon , genuine earth..etc. ( I have to say that I do not oppose people reading Buddhist Sutras, quite the opposite , you should or you must )

 

Because of this , starting from the period around the Yuan Dynasty, Taoist masters were forced to use terms such as Sheng, Qi and Jing straight in order to eliminate unnecessary misinterpretations. Only at the critical place, the jargons remain..

Edited September 30, 2010 by exorcist_1699

[宁]

Obviously, the information will no longer be a problem in this information age.

Slowly but surely all we wanted to know will come to light. I say that because today many of the things that were supersecrets can be bought now on amazon or read on scribd.

Just a 'small' setback to that: by the time it is all revealed, we will be so caught-up with social life, entertainment and technology, that we would hardly find the time necessary for this kind of enterprise. I can't help thinking about this paradoxical progression: the less time we have, the more the information starts to flow... Making the effort to really try and do something proportionally challenging.

[YMWong]

Hello L1,

 

while of course I agree with you re: time and will to practice, I have to say that it is NOT the information that is missing. Or not the key, anyway.

 

The daoist canon has been openly reprinted a number of times, and it has been more or less easily available for hundreds of years - especially since its reprint in the 1920's anyway. Imagine then how many chinese were able to access it, if willing, and somehow also able to 'read it'. At the time they didn't have much 'entertainment and technology' yet ... and still ... few ever made it to practice and get any benefit.

 

Why ?

 

Simply because the information that one can get from a book, or a video from the internet, is USELESS for practical purposes. For that one needs a capable teacher willing to teach, first, and then time and will to put enough effort on the practice

 

YM

[exorcist_1699]

In fact, after having our jing refined into qi then nourishing our brain with it ("還精補腦" ) , our mental ability is greatly multiplied . We not only can read hundreds pages of dictionaries per day without having our eyesight deteriorated ,but also can memorizes hundreds of new vocabularies of a new language per day without tiredness. Any languages , no matter it is Japanese which composed of mixed symbols of kanji, kana and roma characters , or Spanish which is full of "unnecessary " requirements of matching gender, plurals and tenses, even in the Chinese where ten thousands of strange characters are needed to be recognized , all become something simple, a piece of cake to us .

 

Rapid expansion of information is nothing frightening , what is frightening is the weakening of our body and mind in the process of aging. Only Taoist alchemy can reverse the process and enhance our physical and mental power in the flow of time .

[宁]

For that one needs a capable teacher willing to teach, first, and then time and will to put enough effort on the practice

 

Wise words. So then, we are still missing a key factor. Talk about teasing..

 

We not only can read hundreds pages of dictionaries per day without having our eyesight deteriorated...

 

Thanks, that part alone sounds incredibly good. If you know how to do this, I'll make sure I add you up to the list of people I'll seek up when I come to China (or Taiwan), if that's OK with you.

 

L1

Edited September 30, 2010 by Little1

[mjjbecker]

 

Simply because the information that one can get from a book, or a video from the internet, is USELESS for practical purposes. For that one needs a capable teacher willing to teach, first, and then time and will to put enough effort on the practice

 

YM

 

Nice to see you posting again YM. Sanity needs all the help it can get around here .

 

Yes. This is a well trodden debate here though. I doubt anyone is going to change their views on this.

[Procurator]

 

Moreover, any and all of these kinds of books cannot be properly (if at all) understood without the oral teaching from a daoist master.

YM

 

the sponsor of the second edition directly contradicts this:

 

顾或者曰：「昔锺祖云此经以八卦连十二时，其要在艮， 三田反覆，要在泥丸，下手工夫， 姑借咽气漱液为喻，而真气口诀，实在口传心授，不在文字间也。」 予细读数次， 见修真口诀， 详且尽矣，其词虽隐而不发，其道则已跃如也。

 

A visitor told me:...........the oral secrets were not put in writing. I, however, after reading many times, (was able to) see the true oral secrets....

Edited September 30, 2010 by TianShi

[Procurator]

will start translating my way through it and perhaps put up what i find in the 道家学说 forum. perhaps there more people can hop on the project, as interest is spurred.

 

 

i am translating it right now. if u make effort i will point out yr mistakes.

[Aetherous]

Well with everything said, I still look forward to anyone's translation into English, even if it's not 100% accurate. Thanks.