Loneliness

[Maddie]

I have been pondering the issue of loneliness lately. What I'm looking for is not a simplistic answer such as "people just need eachother", but rather I am looking for what it is that causes these feelings, or relieves them. I know that many higher level taoists and some buddhists become hermits in order to facilitate their cultivation. I wonder if they deal with lonliness? And what is it that causes loneliness. I have been working on my heart and lungs a lot lately. I can see how loneliness could reside in either the heart or the lungs, or maybe a combination of the two.

In my case I am in a bad relationship, so I understand that feelings of loneliness make sense, but on the other hand even if I get out of this relationship, I do not want loneliness to drive me into another one. If I get out of this relationship I don't really want another relationship for at least a good while. For one I feel that if I seek a relationship out of loneliness (as I did this one) then that is coming from a position of lack, and that if you approach something from a position of lack things will not end well.

I believe that the heart is responsible for most of our interaction with others so it stands to reason that it might have a lot to do with loneliness. Yet on the other hand since being lonely is a sad feeling I can also see how it might relate to the lungs as well. Both of these organs lie with in the area of the middle dan tien so maybe it is a middle dan tien issue, or all the above.

So lets say as an experiement you took a guy and placed him on an island like in the movie cast away. Now most likely he is going to become lonely. So why does the hermit in the cave in the mountain not become lonely. What does he know that we do not, what has he done that we have not? Why would the guy on the island become lonely? What is it that we need from other people, that we can not supply ourselves?

I feel that loneliness in the past has been the causitive factor in a lot of my relationship issues, and so thus I want to deal with loneliness in a proper fashion so that it will not continue to be an issue for me in the future. So what should I do? Continue to work on removing heart blockages? Keep running the orbit? stand on my head and spin?

Edited September 28, 2010 by dmattwads

[C T]

I am looking for what it is that causes these feelings.

The tendency for being too analytical, over-projection, over-sensitivity, and the need to always compensate... these are some of the causes, i believe. They can lead to insurmountable levels of unnecessary frustrations.

 

And at the root of all these causes lie self-attachment, which in turn fuels the causes. Its like being on a carousel where you think you cant get off.

 

Something to ponder: http://aboutdharma.org/transforming-adverse-conditions.php/

 

also: http://www.thebuddhadharma.com/issues/2005/summer/haunted_dominion.html

 

Enjoy the read! Hope things work out.

(sometimes things have to fall apart completely before rebuilding can take place)

[IMPERIAGO]

Loneliness is simply the false perception that one is alone in the universe. It's root cause is ignorance which is gradually alleviated through proper training.

[Marblehead]

Hi Dmattwads,

 

Most of the answers to your questions are actually in the words of you own opening post.

 

Loneliness is a result of feeling that we are not complete; that we need something or someone in order for us to be complete.

 

Once we find our 'true Self' and attain peace and contentment with that 'true Self' we are complete and there will never be room for loneliness regardless of our external conditions.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Editing for the purpose of changing my 'signature'. I speak more often about 'peace and contentment' than I do of 'peace and love' so my new 'signature is 'peace and contentment'.

 

Peace & Contentment!

Edited September 28, 2010 by Marblehead

[DaoChild]

I have been pondering the issue of loneliness lately. What I'm looking for is not a simplistic answer such as "people just need eachother", but rather I am looking for what it is that causes these feelings, or relieves them. I know that many higher level taoists and some buddhists become hermits in order to facilitate their cultivation. I wonder if they deal with lonliness? And what is it that causes loneliness. I have been working on my heart and lungs a lot lately. I can see how loneliness could reside in either the heart or the lungs, or maybe a combination of the two.

In my case I am in a bad relationship, so I understand that feelings of loneliness make sense, but on the other hand even if I get out of this relationship, I do not want loneliness to drive me into another one. If I get out of this relationship I don't really want another relationship for at least a good while. For one I feel that if I seek a relationship out of loneliness (as I did this one) then that is coming from a position of lack, and that if you approach something from a position of lack things will not end well.

I believe that the heart is responsible for most of our interaction with others so it stands to reason that it might have a lot to do with loneliness. Yet on the other hand since being lonely is a sad feeling I can also see how it might relate to the lungs as well. Both of these organs lie with in the area of the middle dan tien so maybe it is a middle dan tien issue, or all the above.

So lets say as an experiement you took a guy and placed him on an island like in the movie cast away. Now most likely he is going to become lonely. So why does the hermit in the cave in the mountain not become lonely. What does he know that we do not, what has he done that we have not? Why would the guy on the island become lonely? What is it that we need from other people, that we can not supply ourselves?

I feel that loneliness in the past has been the causitive factor in a lot of my relationship issues, and so thus I want to deal with loneliness in a proper fashion so that it will not continue to be an issue for me in the future. So what should I do? Continue to work on removing heart blockages? Keep running the orbit? stand on my head and spin?

 

Science tells us that loneliness is a programed condition simply because it's evolutionarily advantageous to work together, find people to reproduce with, hunt together, etc.

 

Yes, hermits absolutely feel loneliness. I remember reading a book or two a while back about some people who went in search of Chinese hermits (Buddhist + Taoist), and the hermits enjoyed having company and mentioned that sometimes it gets lonely.

 

It takes a lot of work and constant interaction to prevent loneliness, and even if you meditate it takes long periods of uninterupted "flow" (read Csikszentmihalyi) to prevent the mind from getting distracted.

 

The hermit only doesn't become lonely because he keeps his mind clear. The natural state of the mind is entropy (chaos), and unless you have fine control over your mind you will naturally fall back into that state.

[goonis38]

Hi there,

I know loneliness well. I am a hermit type personality. I love being alone... I have also found you can live in the same house with people you love and still suffer loneliness. And I say suffer, because it does hurt...

I think true happynes resides within our selfs, and it is different for each of us. For some woman like myself, it could be having four children and a bunch of friends. One child, and a best friend for a husband is plenty for me. People always want to think there is one path for all to take. I don't believe this to be true.

I have been finding that I am less unhappy, when I am like a child. I mean the small things... Making pictures out of clouds, looking at the small things like a bird. Not trying to fill a void with empty things. But with things of substance. I am still working on this one to. But we recognize it. And this is a start...

Take care Mel

[RiverSnake]

I am 20 years old and my favorite hobbies are Chi Kung, reading, and meditation.

 

Therefore i have very little in common with anyone and no close friends of similar energy and am quite lonely, fortunately i've always had a loner disposition and am comfortable by myself.

 

-I also feel that unless you have friends who have similar hobbies as you, cultivation is somewhat of a lonely path.

 

-As for the women aspect of it: men need women and women need men, it's natural for man to want companionship and from my experience there is always a hole inside when you don't have a women by your side.

 

-This goes for women as well, if there not in a relationship they don't feel right. It's just human nature, and there's no shame in being human.

[bindo]

xxxxxxxx

[Niklas]

I have been pondering the issue of loneliness lately. What I'm looking for is not a simplistic answer such as "people just need eachother", but rather I am looking for what it is that causes these feelings, or relieves them. I know that many higher level taoists and some buddhists become hermits in order to facilitate their cultivation. I wonder if they deal with lonliness? And what is it that causes loneliness. I have been working on my heart and lungs a lot lately. I can see how loneliness could reside in either the heart or the lungs, or maybe a combination of the two.

In my case I am in a bad relationship, so I understand that feelings of loneliness make sense, but on the other hand even if I get out of this relationship, I do not want loneliness to drive me into another one. If I get out of this relationship I don't really want another relationship for at least a good while. For one I feel that if I seek a relationship out of loneliness (as I did this one) then that is coming from a position of lack, and that if you approach something from a position of lack things will not end well.

I believe that the heart is responsible for most of our interaction with others so it stands to reason that it might have a lot to do with loneliness. Yet on the other hand since being lonely is a sad feeling I can also see how it might relate to the lungs as well. Both of these organs lie with in the area of the middle dan tien so maybe it is a middle dan tien issue, or all the above.

So lets say as an experiement you took a guy and placed him on an island like in the movie cast away. Now most likely he is going to become lonely. So why does the hermit in the cave in the mountain not become lonely. What does he know that we do not, what has he done that we have not? Why would the guy on the island become lonely? What is it that we need from other people, that we can not supply ourselves?

I feel that loneliness in the past has been the causitive factor in a lot of my relationship issues, and so thus I want to deal with loneliness in a proper fashion so that it will not continue to be an issue for me in the future. So what should I do? Continue to work on removing heart blockages? Keep running the orbit? stand on my head and spin?

 

 

When you start feeling lonely while meditating you should try to ask yourself "what is loneliness?" and not answer it with your mind, but with your body. Feel the answer. Try to get curious about loneliness. That will make you connect to your true self again and you'll feel love arise. You'll see that the body answers every question with "I am".

[freeform]

When you start feeling lonely while meditating you should try to ask yourself "what is loneliness?" and not answer it with your mind, but with your body. Feel the answer. Try to get curious about loneliness. That will make you connect to your true self again and you'll feel love arise. You'll see that the body answers every question with "I am".

 

[Maddie]

Hey everybody thannks for the replies. Niklas I found your answer interesting and will try that approach. Tao Apprentice I understand what you are talking about, it seems that it is not too common a thing to find someone else interested in these things, so thus we tend to not have a lot of close friendships. Goonis I also like finding pleasure in the small stuff, sometimes I get odd looks lol. Yesterday I was doing the 8 brocades at the park in the morning after dropping the kids off at school. After I finished I saw a little green frog hopping through the grass and stopped to watch it. This park happened to be in Yuppie-ville so all the soccer moms jogging were sort of looking at me watching the frog with this (?)"whatever" above their heads lol. CowTao sorry but I did not understand your point?

[Jetsun]

Loneliness is the foundation of the spiritual quest, call it separation from god in the religious sense or the ego separating subject from object in the Buddhist sense it creates a longing or loneliness in your heart which spurs you to search for reunion

[SirYuri]

I know some people who are hermits over here although, base from the way they act towards me I can't seem to sense any loneliness from them or even see in their auras.

 

In my opinion I think the main reason they don't feel lonely is that because, they spend most of their time meditating their awareness has expanded to a certain level that they have total control of their emotions. It's like that feeling you get when you are deep into meditation that your body is so relaxed and your mind is so focused that you seem to get detached to everything almost to the point of having a very good dream and you don't want to wake up, now imagine those hermits twenty four hours a day feeling that feeling only with their eyes open.

 

Even though we all are social creatures. I think when you are into a spiritual practice the control you develop from meditating keeps you anchored to higher consciousness which make one person not to feel that sense of loneliness. I'm not saying that everybody can do it but it is possible to not be able to feel lower human emotions.

 

SY

Edited September 28, 2010 by SirYuri

[goonis38]

Hey everybody thannks for the replies. Niklas I found your answer interesting and will try that approach. Tao Apprentice I understand what you are talking about, it seems that it is not too common a thing to find someone else interested in these things, so thus we tend to not have a lot of close friendships. Goonis I also like finding pleasure in the small stuff, sometimes I get odd looks lol. Yesterday I was doing the 8 brocades at the park in the morning after dropping the kids off at school. After I finished I saw a little green frog hopping through the grass and stopped to watch it. This park happened to be in Yuppie-ville so all the soccer moms jogging were sort of looking at me watching the frog with this (?)"whatever" above their heads lol. CowTao sorry but I did not understand your point?

Lol my friend,

We are nature freaks... Those people need to stop and smell the roses.... I would of done the same thing. I love frogs, and so do my dogs in different ways, (they like to eat them) I know gross! Did you not love that poster bindo put up, I have seen that before. So true. Life is funny, we all struggle with the same issues. Its people egos that get in the way of saying "yea man I feel lonely too"... Take care Mel

[dwai]

I have been pondering the issue of loneliness lately. What I'm looking for is not a simplistic answer such as "people just need eachother", but rather I am looking for what it is that causes these feelings, or relieves them. I know that many higher level taoists and some buddhists become hermits in order to facilitate their cultivation. I wonder if they deal with lonliness? And what is it that causes loneliness. I have been working on my heart and lungs a lot lately. I can see how loneliness could reside in either the heart or the lungs, or maybe a combination of the two.

In my case I am in a bad relationship, so I understand that feelings of loneliness make sense, but on the other hand even if I get out of this relationship, I do not want loneliness to drive me into another one. If I get out of this relationship I don't really want another relationship for at least a good while. For one I feel that if I seek a relationship out of loneliness (as I did this one) then that is coming from a position of lack, and that if you approach something from a position of lack things will not end well.

I believe that the heart is responsible for most of our interaction with others so it stands to reason that it might have a lot to do with loneliness. Yet on the other hand since being lonely is a sad feeling I can also see how it might relate to the lungs as well. Both of these organs lie with in the area of the middle dan tien so maybe it is a middle dan tien issue, or all the above.

So lets say as an experiement you took a guy and placed him on an island like in the movie cast away. Now most likely he is going to become lonely. So why does the hermit in the cave in the mountain not become lonely. What does he know that we do not, what has he done that we have not? Why would the guy on the island become lonely? What is it that we need from other people, that we can not supply ourselves?

I feel that loneliness in the past has been the causitive factor in a lot of my relationship issues, and so thus I want to deal with loneliness in a proper fashion so that it will not continue to be an issue for me in the future. So what should I do? Continue to work on removing heart blockages? Keep running the orbit? stand on my head and spin?

 

Hi,

 

The root of loneliness is (imho) yearning. From the time when we are able to think clearly, a yearning begins in our heart. We fulfill this need by engaging with other sentient beings and/or material pursuits. So, the yearning is a void that we try and fill with relationships and/or material pursuits.

 

The cause of this yearning is a subconscious understanding that we are somehow incomplete and we yearn for completion...to be whole again. Most people don't realize this and go through the motions of living chasing after one material thing or another, or one superficial relationship or another.

 

What we yearn for is silence and what that means (to attain silence) is to become aware of our true nature, the underlying unity of all existence...

 

That is why you might find a hermit completely at peace with him/herself and not loneliness even though on the surface it might seem like he/she is all alone. Those who are that way have found silence, inner-stillness and therefore aren't disturbed by the myriad turbulences that distract their attention from the core of themselves..their true nature.

[Maddie]

Hi,

 

The root of loneliness is (imho) yearning. From the time when we are able to think clearly, a yearning begins in our heart. We fulfill this need by engaging with other sentient beings and/or material pursuits. So, the yearning is a void that we try and fill with relationships and/or material pursuits.

 

The cause of this yearning is a subconscious understanding that we are somehow incomplete and we yearn for completion...to be whole again. Most people don't realize this and go through the motions of living chasing after one material thing or another, or one superficial relationship or another.

 

What we yearn for is silence and what that means (to attain silence) is to become aware of our true nature, the underlying unity of all existence...

 

That is why you might find a hermit completely at peace with him/herself and not loneliness even though on the surface it might seem like he/she is all alone. Those who are that way have found silence, inner-stillness and therefore aren't disturbed by the myriad turbulences that distract their attention from the core of themselves..their true nature.

 

Hey I like this explination a lot, but by what means do you recommend to acheive this state?

[Taomeow]

The tiger is a loner. No family, no friends. When the time comes, the tigress will seek and find sex, and kick the cat-man out the moment she's done. The kittens will be raised with love and care, but once they've been taught how to hunt, she will kick them out too.

 

The lion is a family man. He will find a wife and stay with her for life, but if he can he will find two or three or four and stay with them all. The lionesses, far from being jealous of each other, form a sisterhood and hunt together with supreme cooperation, share fairly, and never fight with their cat-man or each other. The kids will be kept around till they are old enough to start families of their own, all lionesses will take care of them, not just the mother, once their paternity has been confirmed (if they are not the cat-man's kids, he will eat them, but won't say a word of reproach to the mother.)

 

The "domestic cat" can adopt the tiger behavior or the lion behavior depending on the situation she finds herself in, or her very own. In Bermuda, I've seen large societies of feral cats forming communities and living communal lives. On Discovery Channel, I saw a documentary of a guy in England, a dairy farmer, who has a community of hundreds of cats around his farm living as a social, cultural, interrelated whole. They are free-roaming cats, and free-roaming cats don't choose loneliness. But a "pet" will often be alone.

 

Now do you know about primates?..

[dwai]

Hey I like this explination a lot, but by what means do you recommend to acheive this state?

 

meditation...cultivating stillness.

what works for me:

 

1) After a good taiji or qigong session, sit comfortably with spine straight and crown-point suspended ,

or

2) Lay down in the corpse-pose and LET your body relax...part by part, multiple runs up and down the body....

 

note the emphasis on LET? That means don't try to relax...let the relaxation happen naturally. The key to this process is patience. If you are pressed for time, don't do it then. Do this practice when there are no distractions, no where to go, nothing to do...give it your 100%

 

After that:

 

close the eyes and simply observe your breath. If mind wanders, gently bring it back to observing the breath. As the meditation deepens, the mind stream will rise to the top of your consciousness...observe the thoughts. If you get distracted by any particular thought, simply bring yourself back to observing the thoughts. Over a period of time, you will hit "blanks" that will keep increasing in frequency and duration. Stay in the blanks...

 

Those blanks are stillness, silence and will create various reactions in your body and mind...stay neutral of these reactions.

 

NOTE: In the lying down posture, you might even hear yourself snore...don't let anything distract you. If you get distracted, don't fuss about it...simply remember that your role is to witness the mind-stream. Not judge, not correct...

 

Whether it is a good thought or a bad thought...don't pay attention to what their implications are. Simply observe and let it pass. It is possible that there might be highly contentious and potentially devastating thoughts that rise...don't give them power by simply letting them pass.

 

One description I've heard is to be like the brilliant clear sky and the thoughts like fluffs of clouds flying across the background. Be like the Sky and don't identify with the clouds.

Edited September 28, 2010 by dwai

[FT88]

[goonis38]

Hey,

Ok you totally made me want to be a lioness... My eight year old always ask me "mommy whats you favorite animal" and I have always said Lion... Now I know why... Cool... Mel

The tiger is a loner. No family, no friends. When the time comes, the tigress will seek and find sex, and kick the cat-man out the moment she's done. The kittens will be raised with love and care, but once they've been taught how to hunt, she will kick them out too.

 

The lion is a family man. He will find a wife and stay with her for life, but if he can he will find two or three or four and stay with them all. The lionesses, far from being jealous of each other, form a sisterhood and hunt together with supreme cooperation, share fairly, and never fight with their cat-man or each other. The kids will be kept around till they are old enough to start families of their own, all lionesses will take care of them, not just the mother, once their paternity has been confirmed (if they are not the cat-man's kids, he will eat them, but won't say a word of reproach to the mother.)

 

The "domestic cat" can adopt the tiger behavior or the lion behavior depending on the situation she finds herself in, or her very own. In Bermuda, I've seen large societies of feral cats forming communities and living communal lives. On Discovery Channel, I saw a documentary of a guy in England, a dairy farmer, who has a community of hundreds of cats around his farm living as a social, cultural, interrelated whole. They are free-roaming cats, and free-roaming cats don't choose loneliness. But a "pet" will often be alone.

 

Now do you know about primates?..

[Spectrum]

The more people I meet the more loniness I encounter.

[三江源]

Loneliness is the foundation of the spiritual quest, call it separation from god in the religious sense or the ego separating subject from object in the Buddhist sense it creates a longing or loneliness in your heart which spurs you to search for reunion

 

 

This one.

[JohnC]

I am looking for what it is that causes these feelings.

 

Lack of connection to your self.

 

That you need other people to satisfy some need that is inherently inside.(the love tube that usually flows inside, has to go outside, meet some criteria then is allowed to come back).

 

John

[Everything]

Hey, guys. Hope I can bring something to this topic.

 

My thoughts?

Loneliness is an emotion, no need to say its bad to feel bad, or you will stack bad and bad on to eachother into infinity... Haha, you know where that leads to. Depression, which on it self is connected to being passive with your anger, your needs not being met, you ignore the loneliness.

 

But if you're just feeling loneli, its good. That means you gotta get out there and train your skills with people. For most men that means skill with woman, which leads to all social skills alltogether. Not saying sexual skills, just social skills, lol. Loneliness is kinda like being angry, only it is specific for your social needs. So if you feel loneli, don't go out angry and kill deers for food! You're hungry for people, haha! Instead, use your loneliness as energy, may it give strentgh and motivation for you to create a better future.

 

Personally, how I cope with loneliness is to denie my nature and try to cope with the feeling of loneliness as something thats just there to deal with all the time. I witness it as a passing storm. It always passes to be replaced by those beautiful days that are balanced. I have to admit, I've been in a storm here 75% of the time. The other 25% is when I made friends with some "players" who teached me to kinda be more of a man, it feels good vibe with girls, that just makes your entire day go "yay!" ;P And having alot of fun hanging out with the friends when not doing that also helps. Just make sure you have the right relationships, not every friend is a good friend just because you call him a friend. A good relationship is always "EASY" and not hard work, + the other person makes you grow is some way and you make him grow just by both of you being your selves. So... That out the way. I just cope with my loneliness by being passive, still... Because I don't care about anything, but hey thats me just giving food for thought ^^

Edited October 1, 2010 by Everything

[Maddie]

Hey, guys. Hope I can bring something to this topic.

 

My thoughts?

Loneliness is an emotion, no need to say its bad to feel bad, or you will stack bad and bad on to eachother into infinity... Haha, you know where that leads to. Depression, which on it self is connected to being passive with your anger, your needs not being met, you ignore the loneliness.

 

But if you're just feeling loneli, its good. That means you gotta get out there and train your skills with people. For most men that means skill with woman, which leads to all social skills alltogether. Not saying sexual skills, just social skills, lol. Loneliness is kinda like being angry, only it is specific for your social needs. So if you feel loneli, don't go out angry and kill deers for food! You're hungry for people, haha! Instead, use your loneliness as energy, may it give strentgh and motivation for you to create a better future.

 

Personally, how I cope with loneliness is to denie my nature and try to cope with the feeling of loneliness as something thats just there to deal with all the time. I witness it as a passing storm. It always passes to be replaced by those beautiful days that are balanced. I have to admit, I've been in a storm here 75% of the time. The other 25% is when I made friends with some "players" who teached me to kinda be more of a man, it feels good vibe with girls, that just makes your entire day go "yay!" ;P And having alot of fun hanging out with the friends when not doing that also helps. Just make sure you have the right relationships, not every friend is a good friend just because you call him a friend. A good relationship is always "EASY" and not hard work, + the other person makes you grow is some way and you make him grow just by both of you being your selves. So... That out the way. I just cope with my loneliness by being passive, still... Because I don't care about anything, but hey thats me just giving food for thought ^^

 

I've observed with myself and in others that a lot of what we men do in honing our social skills actually is just EGO issues. How many times have we seen a good looking woman and wanted to impress her in some way or another not necessarily because we truely liked her (perhaps we didn't even know her) but to "prove" someething to ourselves, or to our egos?