Loneliness

[Niklas]

I've observed with myself and in others that a lot of what we men do in honing our social skills actually is just EGO issues. How many times have we seen a good looking woman and wanted to impress her in some way or another not necessarily because we truely liked her (perhaps we didn't even know her) but to "prove" someething to ourselves, or to our egos?

 

 

Yeah you are right about that dmattwads. It's all about the ego... At least it's what I feel too.

If it wasn't about the ego, the women would fall in love with you, because what makes her so happy is when she truly sees your love for her.

Love or like whatever.

When do we demonstrate that we truly love her? By being fully present with her. I think...

 

How do we cure loneliness? By feeling loneliness. How does that emotion feel like? What is it like when you pause, concentrate on the loneliness and let it be there. Feel that emotion. You can't escape it by force. The only way is to BE WITH that loneliness. I think...

[Maddie]

If anyone read what I posted in the asking a girl in yoga class out thread yesterday, then this will make sense. I was at work today again, and around that Postal guy again. Today after getting rejected by the girl I felt something different from him, yet also very stong. I felt an intense loneliness. Everytimes he would walk by me I felt it so strong in my middle dan tien area and throat chakra. I know this guy is on some sort of meds for mental problems, and I also know that what ever he happens to be feeling radiates out very strong. I assumed the loneliness is due to him getting rejected by every girl on the planet. The pressure in the throat chakra was unexpected, but I assume he feels that he can not adequately express himself?? I'm just not sure why I feel his emotional energy sooooo strong?

[Niklas]

If anyone read what I posted in the asking a girl in yoga class out thread yesterday, then this will make sense. I was at work today again, and around that Postal guy again. Today after getting rejected by the girl I felt something different from him, yet also very stong. I felt an intense loneliness. Everytimes he would walk by me I felt it so strong in my middle dan tien area and throat chakra. I know this guy is on some sort of meds for mental problems, and I also know that what ever he happens to be feeling radiates out very strong. I assumed the loneliness is due to him getting rejected by every girl on the planet. The pressure in the throat chakra was unexpected, but I assume he feels that he can not adequately express himself?? I'm just not sure why I feel his emotional energy sooooo strong?

 

He must feel very lonely by not being able to express himself correctly. His needs are so strong that the woman gets scared of him. She feels that he just talks to her to feed his ego :/ If he just could understand her, it would make it a lot easier for him.

[fizix]

[Marblehead]

 

Reminded me of words from a Leonard Cohen song.

 

I paraphrase:

 

(She says) "You know I prefer handsome men but for you I will make an exception."

[Everything]

I've observed with myself and in others that a lot of what we men do in honing our social skills actually is just EGO issues. How many times have we seen a good looking woman and wanted to impress her in some way or another not necessarily because we truely liked her (perhaps we didn't even know her) but to "prove" someething to ourselves, or to our egos?

Hehe, no man this is just for kids who are insecure who have wild fantasies of going in there like some super hero and say something that will impress everyone and make them godlike sexy. And yeah you're right, unfortunately most people are insecure and childish, but hey, no one is perfect, even I were like that when I was a teenager. I actually did those stuff, attracted by pretending to be something else and in the end you end up with someone you don't even love, lol. That is love for beginners who have ego or identity issues and seek a mate who fills their emptiness. Just clear those out and go get some real love that adds to your already good life not ego issues.

 

And also, you can practice on everyone, wether you feel attracted to them or not. Practice is just to make your life better, not to prove anything. It requires discipline and patience instead of pushing instant gratification buttons that simply don't exist. If you want to be more social and have a higher replication value you will have to practice with humans. If not? Then you will have to deal with you social instincts like feeling lonely and cope with them.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Everything

[Non]

Society can make you feel lonely. Some say that it's not good for man to be alone. What if you were born alone? Lived alone all your life, and have no concept of what being alone is?

 

The media can make us feel lonely, by rubbing in our faces the solitude condition and associating it with negativity, negative images. Rubbing in our faces in complete disregard, unconscious disrepect when they have it all, people connected doing things for each other. People and science can say that we're not meant to be alone, that we are social. Then you start to believe you are going crazy, do not know how to socialize, etc.

 

Some people believe we're not social but communal. One thing is for sure, if you live in a society that is always throwing at you overstimulating images, sex, lust, etc. it CAN be taxing on the nerves to always be in the presence of this just as long as you're exposed to it and you dont know how to deal with it.The human has never been this stimulated in our ancient history. Everything is going so fast, we do our best to keep up. But now what do you see on TV? SEX SEX SEX. Not only SEX but, of the pornographic type, the erratic type of sex. Catching you in a dopamine cycle, the happiness trap. We have the physical organs, they're all meant for something aren't they? If we didn't have them how would you feel? If we had no mirrors to observe ourselves with would you prefer this? We depend on Earth. We depend on Life. We depend on dependence. Passion, which is based on lack. Based on pain. On longing. This is the 'romantic love'. What of companionate love, or even consumate which has both passion and companionate love? But companionate love is the base, too much passion can surely tax the nerves, and deplete resources. What of karezza, and tantra, we dont see THAT in movies, or in pornography or in our media. The whole society runs on this fear based sexuality and familiarity. We don't love, we must "fall in love", at least in the west. There's no family obligations anymore. There's no tribe to keep stable, no mutual dependence or interdependence. It's all just about money, make enough money and you can do whatever you please right? But true unconditional love is beyond that, money can't buy it. The industrial society is dismantling the family unit, and also the emotional.

 

So yea, society can make you feel lonely. We're not all daoist monks, so there isn't that much of a community of daoists. That's a reason daoists choose to be in isolation much, never mind just to meditate and contemplate alone.

 

Like I said, some people believe we are communal but not necessarily social beings, that are meant to live so damn close together. Then again the family unit is also important. Do you really think society is a community? It's not. We are all strange to each other. Strangers. So monks have no choice but to live in communities or in complete isolation. This can be lonely.

 

I don't think the human body can actually live alone. We depend on each other physically for things, in interdependence, not codependence. Thats society not community. It's not natural.

 

But, if you have been able to transcend complete loneliness by becoming God, if that's even believeable, well... maybe you can live alone all by your damn self. Good luck with that.

 

 

Only thing I believe one can do in these harsh times is to rewire oneself if it's possible. Reprogram the natural condition, to be supernatural. But then the question then is like I said above, do YOU really want to be alone forever, even if you could stand it? Probably not. So you choose to be alone, when you want to, and when you want to be with someone, be with someone but be careful not to make your own trap of seeking it out of lack. Oops.

 

Or just believe everyone damn needs someone, we're all human.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Non

[suninmyeyes]

Reply to the original post:

"Where does lonliness come from.."

From the same "place "as everything else.Lonliness can be be fulfilled with different point of view.

 

In a mean time till that happens , stay with it little by little .Maybe take the lonilenss's hand and dance with her for a while.Seduce her and fall into her arms.

Dont be afraid or run away looking for something else.And you wont be lonley anymore.

 

Or be an alchemist and transform it into fuel for meditation.

Whatever feels good for you.

 

Fierce desire to try and love anything that life offers under all circumstances is in IMO the way.Love is best ,nothing beats it.

[Gauss]

[Maddie]

In regards to loneliness I have been working on my throat chakra, heart, and spleen lately, and this has been getting results. The throat chakra has to do with commuincation, so if we have a blockage there then we may feel cut off from others and ourselves due to lack of communication. The heart, or the "emporer" is incharge of our interactions with others, and the spleen is responsible for our sense of comfort and acceptence (and self acceptence).

In the past I have found that the root of just about all my problems is internal, even if at the beginning I thought it was external. I've found flower essences and homeopahty to be very helpful in addition to Qigong practice.

[Niklas]

I have had chronic problems for 10years because my spleen was blocked. The chronic problem was that my nose was running all the time. A shaman in Bali healed me 4 months ago and I was fine for the first time in 10 years until 1 month ago I got a cold and it started over again + that my throat have been aching for 1 month too now -.- so damn sad.

 

But don't quite believe that my bad spleen cause me self esteem problems too? I am quite shy, but in my opinion that's from the way I was raised... or maybe there are several consequences?

 

(sorry if im out of the topic here)

[Maddie]

I have had chronic problems for 10years because my spleen was blocked. The chronic problem was that my nose was running all the time. A shaman in Bali healed me 4 months ago and I was fine for the first time in 10 years until 1 month ago I got a cold and it started over again + that my throat have been aching for 1 month too now -.- so damn sad.

 

But don't quite believe that my bad spleen cause me self esteem problems too? I am quite shy, but in my opinion that's from the way I was raised... or maybe there are several consequences?

 

(sorry if im out of the topic here)

 

Gilles Marin in his book "Five Elements Six Conditions" goes in depth about the emotional/mental qualities of our various organs. The Lungs store either self respect/pride/courge/healthy boundries, or sadness/poor boundries/ low self esteem. The Spleen deals with how we feel about ourselves, our sense of belonging, or rejection, comfort, nuturing, worry.

"Self esteem issues" are complex, and not everyone fits into the same pattern. If your intrensic value of yourself as an individual is low this might be more indicitive of a blockage in your lungs, but if your self esteem is low in the realm of feeling like a social reject, or not accepted, then this might indicate more of a Spleen issue. If you feel awkward relating to people this could be more of a heart issue, as the heart/ emporer is responsible for our healthy social interactions with others and society at large.

In my own case my Spleen issue was feeling like somewhat of an outcast, or rejected. In TCM and Qigong our organs are responsible for more than just their obvious physical functions, but as a meridian system they are responsible to all sorts of emotions and mental outlooks.

It might make a little more sense if you take the organs physical functions as an allegory. The stomach/spleen system are responsible for taking in food, breaking it down, and assimilating what we need. When one is "taken in" they feel accepted, but if they are metephorically "vomitted out" they feel rejected. The stomach churns food around, if all goes well its digested, but if it can not digest what ever is eatten, the food just keeps going round and round getting no where. If we are unable to "digest" thoughts they just keep going round and round in our mind, and we get no where. Thinking in circles and worry is a negitive aspect of the spleen/stomach. The lungs are where our boundries are. They take in oxygen, separate it out of the air, remove carbon dioxide and expell it.... boundries.

Hope it makes a bit more sense in this light. Here is a link that goes into more detail.

 

http://www.heavenearthchineseherbs.com/five_organs.html?zenid=8q0ef8ppq0lltucmqjcstbfjg4

[hajimesaito]

I have always been a solitary individual since a very young age. And I enjoy and cherish my solitude. There are two kinds of loneliness:-

 

1. Loneliness when you feel depressed due to being alone and crave for society and company.

2. Loneliness that you enjoy and which gives you peace and happiness.

 

Most people fall into the first category. Humans are social animals just like wolves, Lions, wild dogs etc. So no wonder that most really only feel safe in a group.

 

But a Tiger roams the jungle alone and not tolerates even his own kind. He lives with pride and peace alone. I would rather like being the Tiger than being an alpha, beta or zeta wolf in a pack.

[Non]

I have always been a solitary individual since a very young age. And I enjoy and cherish my solitude. There are two kinds of loneliness:-

 

1. Loneliness when you feel depressed due to being alone and crave for society and company.

2. Loneliness that you enjoy and which gives you peace and happiness.

 

Most people fall into the first category. Humans are social animals just like wolves, Lions, wild dogs etc. So no wonder that most really only feel safe in a group.

 

But a Tiger roams the jungle alone and not tolerates even his own kind. He lives with pride and peace alone. I would rather like being the Tiger than being an alpha, beta or zeta wolf in a pack.

 

 

A tiger only gets sex when he/she wants it, and with no attachments right? Well I'm pretty sure that if you could not get sex even when you wanted to you would feel lonely. I know I would. In fact it seems that would be the only reason why I'd feel lonely sometimes.

 

Maybe you wouldn't care. What if you were a virgin at the age of 35 and couldn't get any woman? I'm pretty sure that would make you feel lonely. A virgin at 24 and can't get a woman? I'm pretty sure you would feel lonely and frustrated. Couldn't even make friends, when you wanted. Couldn't even socialize with any woman because well... they all reject you no matter what, even before you start talking to any they all look you down. You might feel a bit lonely.

 

Solitude is when you choose to be lonely. When you're ok with it. Not when you're sick (physiologically) of it. It's a very physical need for bodily health. If you don't think so then look at the trouble people have with SEX everyday. Sure you could live alone, but sex, now that's another thing.

 

Im a yang fire tiger..

 

As a tiger, you might just need less contact with others and prefer less contact with others. But you still desire at least the minimum. If you don't get that minimum you'll probably desire it a lot more. You want to choose when you want to have someone, and when to not, not have it "dictate" you. Or distract you. Would you truly be happy to be absolutely alone your entire life?

 

How about if you come across daily many beautiful women, and you cannot even socialize with any one of them. It just annoys you. You're like a tied up horse and they want to burn you from behind but can't move. They all reject you, without pity or concern. In fact most of them don't even know they do, or it's just unconscious to them. In fact it may even be unconscious to them why they are attracted to others and not you. In fact they may disregard you as some nothing, no matter what you do. No matter what.

 

You'd feel alone.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Non

[Maddie]

A tiger only gets sex when he/she wants it, and with no attachments right? Well I'm pretty sure that if you could not get sex even when you wanted to you would feel lonely. I know I would. In fact it seems that would be the only reason why I'd feel lonely sometimes.

 

Maybe you wouldn't care. What if you were a virgin at the age of 35 and couldn't get any woman? I'm pretty sure that would make you feel lonely. A virgin at 24 and can't get a woman? I'm pretty sure you would feel lonely and frustrated. Couldn't even make friends, when you wanted. Couldn't even socialize with any woman because well... they all reject you no matter what, even before you start talking to any they all look you down. You might feel a bit lonely.

 

Solitude is when you choose to be lonely. When you're ok with it. Not when you're sick (physiologically) of it. It's a very physical need for bodily health. If you don't think so then look at the trouble people have with SEX everyday. Sure you could live alone, but sex, now that's another thing.

 

Im a yang fire tiger..

 

As a tiger, you might just need less contact with others and prefer less contact with others. But you still desire at least the minimum. If you don't get that minimum you'll probably desire it a lot more. You want to choose when you want to have someone, and when to not, not have it "dictate" you. Or distract you. Would you truly be happy to be absolutely alone your entire life?

 

How about if you come across daily many beautiful women, and you cannot even socialize with any one of them. It just annoys you. You're like a tied up horse and they want to burn you from behind but can't move. They all reject you, without pity or concern. In fact most of them don't even know they do, or it's just unconscious to them. In fact it may even be unconscious to them why they are attracted to others and not you. In fact they may disregard you as some nothing, no matter what you do. No matter what.

 

You'd feel alone.

 

Since I do not personally know you it is hard to say for sure, but from what you indicate in a lot of your posts to me at least it seems that a lot of what you are frustrated with is the social interaction aspect in regards to women. I can relate, because I'm not the most outgoing person now, but when I was younger I was really shy and akward around women in particular, so I know how this feels. Usually when ever I encounter a problem in my personal life, I try to track down the source of this problem in my "wiring", and almost always that is where I get solutions.

Now I'm not going to say this issue is only one thing to the exclusion of anything else, but just from what I can gather from observation of your posts, it would seem that a large part of your dilema may be due to a throat chakra blockage. Why do I say this? Because the throat chakra is all about communication, social interaction, and how comfortable or uncomfortable we feel with this subject.

For example someone with a very open throat chakra would see someone they wished to speak to and most likely feel very comfortable in having a conversation with that person. Because they felt comfortable, the other person would pick up on this and feel comfortable as well, and the conversation would tend to go well.

But if on the other hand the person had a blocked throat chakra, and saw someone that they wanted to communicate with, but did not feel comfortable with doing so, first of all they most likely would not begin a conversation with that person in the first place. But if they used a large degree of will power to make themselves go ahead and speak to that person anyways, they would feel quite uncomfortable and the person they were speaking to would pick up on this, and then likewise feel uncomfortable, and most likely the conversation would get no where.

So my point in saying all this is to look for the common denominator in your life, and once it is recongnized take steps to correct it, and once that is done things tend to fall in place rather automatically.

But never to isolate theory from practice, how does one clear their throat chakra? Well I suppose there are a lot of ways to do so. People go to yoga, use stones, flower essences, homeopathy, qigong, ect... A few techniques that I have personally found to be effective are running the MCO through the throat several times, sort of letting the energy linger there a bit before drawing it back down. I have also used gemstones to a great effect on many of my chakras including the throat. I have also found the Bach Flower remedy "Heather" to be very effective for the throat chakra as well. Yoga has several asanas for this as well. But the main point is deal with the energy first, then things fall into place.

 

P.S. I'm a Tiger too haha

Edited October 13, 2010 by dmattwads

[gendao]

Maybe you wouldn't care. What if you were a virgin at the age of 35 and couldn't get any woman? I'm pretty sure that would make you feel lonely. A virgin at 24 and can't get a woman? I'm pretty sure you would feel lonely and frustrated. Couldn't even make friends, when you wanted. Couldn't even socialize with any woman because well... they all reject you no matter what, even before you start talking to any they all look you down. You might feel a bit lonely.

I think men may "overestimate" women as angelic "goddesses" these days. When they are now much more like wannabe frat boys who are looking for the same in men.

 

Like, here is a recent example of the traits that a young co-ed today rates men by:

As you can see, the ideal man today is essentially a genetically-gifted, high-testosterone, alpha male model/jock/p0rn star with a frat boy persona very fluent in pop culture.

Things that really impress now are model looks, huge schlongs and memorizing rap songs..

 

 

Now, ask yourself how you stack up in these categories? If you rank high in them, then your problems are likely mostly mental and easily fixed.

 

But if you fare poorly, you shouldn't feel too bad either...because they say little about your actual value as a human being. Your sexual worth is only a part of that. Women may rate the Dalai Lama or John Chang as 0's, but that doesn't mean they haven't made the most of their lives here on Earth.

Edited October 13, 2010 by vortex

[Mal]

[Non]

That's a tiger trapped in a cage, a dim shadow of the real thing. A tiger doesn’t sit in the jungle thinking “I feel… I want…” When a true tiger gets hungry it goes hunting. And puts it’s entire being into the endeavour.

 

Quintessential “Do or do not, there is no try”

 

(BTW You can do that too Non, our cage doesn't even have "real" bars)

 

 

You're just talking about the self imposed prison. What about a real prison matrix set up by powers that be, which are of course beyond your physical control?

 

You can't just live in your mind all the time.. well you can but chances are, if you're not at that level you have to stick with learning how to within the confines of physicality, unless you go OBE or can completely dissociate from your body. Sometimes there is no physical way.

 

All this "it's in your mind" bs really is just in your mind.

 

One foot in one foot out. We have to be balanced.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Non

[Mal]

What about the matrix prison?

 

Exactly the same, it's all just thoughts

 

"You are not what you think you are. But what you think... you are."

 

Edit: It's not about living in your mind, it's getting out of imprisoning thinking and doing.

[goonis38]

[Non]

Mal,

That is great... "a tiger trapped in a cage"... We have all felt that way... When I was young, and hadn't been married 13 years and forever. I was very shy and lonely... Sitting in my apartment going to work, waiting for prince charming to come along and ask me out. Every night. I was alone. My mother taught me to never ask a man out. And men are shy also. So there fore. You have two people all alone.

So that is right Mal be that tiger, because there are lots of lonely girls, and guys, waiting on that first move..

Live, laugh, and love... Mel

 

Well.. as a man. I feel quite bad about approaching women as it may seem too forward. In fact even simple things. most women around here are very closed off and give you, or at least me a closed off look. They appear to be very unapproachable and even disregard me as a person it seems.. like, they ignore me... or like I'm just a nobody, even when I try to say something.

 

For a guy like me it wold seem better if the woman approached me. It just seems right since.. I'm not going to try and force myself on a woman, or co-erce her, or even try to seduce her into submitting like other guys do. no.. that's dangerous. But then again 'alpha males' can do it, or model guys. In fact they can have the harshest personalities, or be criminals and it's fair game. It's about dominance not virtue. That's Manliness.

 

The woman is not as scary to men (obviously). But men can be any number of things, heck they can be rapists, serial killers, robbers, thugs, etc. That's why women do close themselves off. They all learned when they were young to be cold with beta males who just wanted to hold their hands (like only a creep would). So in fact, any kind of real loving feelings is deemed creepy too. So you must be as cool and indifferent as possible right? Heck, be casual. Want casual sex, and act like a player, at least at first. Because you're promiscuous until you've had a good f*ck so you can have a serial monogamist/linear polygamist relationship. She'll do the same (it seems most would). There's no such thing as love. If you believe in love you're a creep.

 

So.. I don't approach them, for fear of scaring them off. But then again there are girls that think you should be aggressive and dominant and such. To me it seems the way the game is set up.. is that a man HAS to be aggressive, not assertive (that's like intangible in this world), in approaching a woman, or to initiate something. It seems forceful. But then again it's also because most women don't do the approaching and expect the man to. Most women wouldn't see the reason why I dont approach them they'll just figure I'm too weak/beta. Or I'm just a creep waiting to capture them.

 

Don't most women want to be swept off their feet, for us to captivate her/capture her attention. Seduce? Sigh.. there's a fine line. There's too much associations with sex and violence. Our ancestors used to (well still do) kill each other and war each other for women, and the women expect the man to chase her.

 

Plus.. I don't know who she is. She'll probably break my heart, and make a fool of me, is a hoodrat. Been around the block, perhaps every man in the room knows her too well. She's the sweetheart of the month of some other guy(s). Who knows...

 

So because it would seem like I am trying to dominate her, I don't approach her, and in fact I even try to make it so that I dont talk unless it's necessary. Out of "respect".. since it seems guys have to be aggressive in approaching her.

 

But then again girls have been taught to be cold with men and have a shield to either 1. weed out the unconfident men/beta males and be super selective 2. to protect themselves if they ever need to.

 

or 3. they're just immune to anything she deems "unworhty" or "lowly" or "unpopular" or "unextravagant", etc. because anyway every beautiful woman has come across hundreds of guys, and trust me even the most harsh of men, the richest most brutally dominant men you would ever know that would make any man cringe at the thought of seducing her.

 

I'm sorry.... sick world. I know this was harsh. I know.. but nobody likes to think of these things or speak about them. Maybe it's because they dont have a problem, because they've all turned into the good 'badboy' women want. How can women expect us to be good and bad at the same time?

Edited October 14, 2010 by Non

[King Kabalabhati]

Mattdwads wrote: "But never to isolate theory from practice, how does one clear their throat chakra? Well I suppose there are a lot of ways to do so. People go to yoga, use stones, "

 

Chanting is very good for opening the throat.

[Non]

Mattdwads wrote: "But never to isolate theory from practice, how does one clear their throat chakra? Well I suppose there are a lot of ways to do so. People go to yoga, use stones, "

 

Chanting is very good for opening the throat.

 

Hm yes.. chanting. I chant everyday now.

I bet throat singing/overtone singing/harmonic chanting is a good practice too.

[Non]

Read about Companionate Love vs Romantic/Passionate Love vs Consumate Love

 

http://www.relationshipsandlove.com/romantic_and_companionate_love.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_theory_of_love

 

exclusively Romantic love relationships.. also called Passionate Love... is actually based on pain, longing, and fear. Romantic love is probably the most common type of relationship in western society. All western media portray pornographic type relationships. There's no tantra in movies, or porn. No karezza type bonds in movies. What you see IS what you get for sure in america. The media. The people you live with. The people you have to see everyday. Where you live.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Non

[Enishi]

Non out of curiosity which area of the country/world do you live in? Some are better than others for a single guy.

 

Romantic relationships do indeed seem to result in heartbreak more often than not. I think there are many different longings which get mixed into it though.

 

Sometimes it's a subconscious need to meet a mirror image of yourself who will love you as you are now with your current personality, quirks and foibles. It's easy to feel this way if you have parents who might claim to love you but from your perspective love the infant which existed several decades in the past, and are never satisfied with what you do.

 

Sometimes it's also just a matter of "mmm.....boobies!" which is NOT a bad thing.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Enishi