Chi into Shen

[Astral_Anima]

Hello all,

I'm curious. I know that the achemetical process is turning jing into chi then chi into shen. Jing being turned into chi seem to be done by sitting full lotus and celibacy redirecting the sexual energy (please correct me if I misunderstand that). However what are the methods for turning chi into shen? Anyone have any insights?

All is appreciated.

 

-Astral

[Maddie]

Hello all,

I'm curious. I know that the achemetical process is turning jing into chi then chi into shen. Jing being turned into chi seem to be done by sitting full lotus and celibacy redirecting the sexual energy (please correct me if I misunderstand that). However what are the methods for turning chi into shen? Anyone have any insights?

All is appreciated.

 

-Astral

 

If I remember what Drew said correctly, I think if you keep sitting in full lotus, the conversion process automitically continues so after the jing is turned into chi, then if you keep at it the chi turns into shen.

[goonis38]

If I remember what Drew said correctly, I think if you keep sitting in full lotus, the conversion process automitically continues so after the jing is turned into chi, then if you keep at it the chi turns into shen.

 

Hey there,

If I don't ask I won't learn, so I understand chi, and qi and jing... But shen, what is this? and what, and where, and why, please, if you don't mind... Thank you in advance... Mel

Edited September 29, 2010 by goonis38

[Maddie]

Ok in a nut shell there are the three treasures, jing, chi, and shen. Shen is translated as "spirit" but it does not hold the same connotations as in the West. Shen can denote our mind, emtions, perceptions, ect.. It is the most refined and less dense of the three treasures, and is said to reisde in the upper dan tien, or the heart depending on your source. It is said that the state of one's shen can be seen in the eyes. If you to go to a TCM doctor he will look in your eyes to see the state of your shen. People who have mental illness or act in irratic and hystarical ways are said to have scattered shen, or their shen has departed. If you have a lot of time on your hands and like to read a lot this link will tell you all about shen and shen disorders. http://www.itmonline.org/shen/index.htm

 

Here is a shorter version which I also like. http://www.fivespirits.com/shen.php

Edited September 29, 2010 by dmattwads

[goonis38]

Ok in a nut shell there are the three treasures, jing, chi, and shen. Shen is translated as "spirit" but it does not hold the same connotations as in the West. Shen can denote our mind, emtions, perceptions, ect.. It is the most refined and less dense of the three treasures, and is said to reisde in the upper dan tien, or the heart depending on your source. It is said that the state of one's shen can be seen in the eyes. If you to go to a TCM doctor he will look in your eyes to see the state of your shen. People who have mental illness or act in irratic and hystarical ways are said to have scattered shen, or their shen has departed. If you have a lot of time on your hands and like to read a lot this link will tell you all about shen and shen disorders. http://www.itmonline.../shen/index.htm

 

Here is a shorter version which I also like. http://www.fivespirits.com/shen.php

 

Ok... I have actually seen that people that are mentally ill have glossy eyes... Wow. That is something else and it makes since, if your soul was in a mess so to speak, this would happen. As your eyes are the door way to your soul. Amazing... Thank you for always taking the time, you are very nice... Mel

[Astral_Anima]

Possible Causes

 

* narcissistic injuries: parents who couldn't see the child and consistently inhibited the expression of true nature

 

LOLZ, well that basically sums up 90% of the US

 

But thank you for the info you provided, it indeed helped me to understand a little better.

 

-Astral

[Ya Mu]

Hello all,

I'm curious. I know that the achemetical process is turning jing into chi then chi into shen. Jing being turned into chi seem to be done by sitting full lotus and celibacy redirecting the sexual energy (please correct me if I misunderstand that). However what are the methods for turning chi into shen? Anyone have any insights?

All is appreciated.

 

-Astral

search some of the threads on "Virtue"

Full lotus not necessary. Sexual deprivation not necessary. Virtue needed. Proper practice needed. Time&effort needed. Find a teacher.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Jing, Qi, Shen.. same thing, different understandings, different evolution of 'Being'..

 

Be well..

[johndoe2012]

Jing being turned into chi seem to be done by sitting full lotus

 

if this were correct standing would be useless, so would tai chi. So my opinion is it can be done other ways also.

[Astral_Anima]

if this were correct standing would be useless, so would tai chi. So my opinion is it can be done other ways also.

 

O no doubt, it's just the most common way i've heard is by sitting in full lotus or in deep concentration. If you know of any more please share, i'd be curious.

[Guest paul walter]

Hello all,

I'm curious. I know that the achemetical process is turning jing into chi then chi into shen. Jing being turned into chi seem to be done by sitting full lotus and celibacy redirecting the sexual energy (please correct me if I misunderstand that). However what are the methods for turning chi into shen? Anyone have any insights?

All is appreciated.

 

-Astral

 

 

Well the first thing is to get the energy and let it open the heart, then after time this opens the head and they unite giving shen. Can be done just through emptiness/stillness. Paul

[Astral_Anima]

Well the first thing is to get the energy and let it open the heart, then after time this opens the head and they unite giving shen. Can be done just through emptiness/stillness. Paul

 

Haha, well that describes whats going on with me in Kunlun. It's been nagging at my heart since I started. How about jing into chi? I always just assumed dantien breathing in full/half lotus. any other ideas/ways anyone knows of?

[IMPERIAGO]

if this were correct standing would be useless, so would tai chi. So my opinion is it can be done other ways also.

 

 

I thought standing, Tai Chi, Qi Gung & martial art in general were for raising & circulating the energy so that energy, channels & body may be conditioned, as well as to learn to control & direct the different energies in different ways; whereas sitting was mainly for collecting, refining, & compressing these energies(?).

[Guest paul walter]

Haha, well that describes whats going on with me in Kunlun. It's been nagging at my heart since I started. How about jing into chi? I always just assumed dantien breathing in full/half lotus. any other ideas/ways anyone knows of?

 

 

Yeah, you have to be very still and let it happen, forget about practices I'd say, just set your life around quietness and doing less and less, emptying the mind (that's how I did it, there was no drama just could feel the power/clarity getting closer to the goal and then one day-bang! , utter relief and joy/lightness at the 'breakthrough', which you shouldn't stop at or indulge in ). The heart can be very resistant for people like us/our culture so don't force it/fret. Jing into chi--same thing. As far as I know its the safest 'method' to just let it refine/reveal itself through being totally natural and dissolving the blocks the mind puts in front of 'us'. The power builds substantially over time just from releasing tension in the body/mind through emptying. I only put a name to all this recently cause I knew nothing about meditation or practices when i applied myself and got through. Turns ouot though that I had pretty much done everything "by the book" if by that I mean a secret taoist cultivation manual hidden in a cave somewhere on Mt Hua --trust the body, trust yourself (they know it all ). You automatically breath reverse when you let it all go too. Paul

[Guest paul walter]

Hi astral,

 

Heart openings, massive dissolving of blockages, free chi flow...this is the result of less than 100 days of stillness-movement meditation.

 

A powerful practice.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's what I forgot to say. I was always moving/walking very slowly, never meditating through sitting (in fact one of the conspicuous things was the need to move continually but very slowly in order not to lose the feel of the blockages (through the mind clouding over) so as to tackle them--most days for about 6-8 hours, it became an 'addiction' when things really started to release, pure flow) . The combination of movement and stillness is very powerful indeed. Paul

[johndoe2012]

Hi astral,

 

Heart openings, massive dissolving of blockages, free chi flow...this is the result of less than 100 days of stillness-movement meditation.

 

A powerful practice.

 

but isn't it transmission + 100 days practise?

 

That's quite different...

 

but it really is quick! You are lucky.

Edited September 30, 2010 by wtm

[exorcist_1699]

To many people, jing 's transformation into qi is quite understandable; of course , whether the quality of qi that they achieve is high and delicate enough is another story .

 

However, how qi is transformed into shen("神") is always more difficult to grasp. Here , the shen we refer to is nothing similar to our daily reasoning, feelings or experiences..

 

( By the way, women can be said to have "jing" as men do, the difference is only in its forms of expressions , which ,are always more complicate : it sometimes appears as blood, sometimes appear as milk ..also the location where its transformation into qi takes place is always different from men's ,i.e, not at the lower abdomen, but in the middle of the breast )

 

Even intuition , something a little mystical to many people , is not close to it .

 

Likely the saying : "Nourish a MIND by paying attention to nowhere " ("應無所住而生其心" )from the "Diamond Sutra" is what close to it . Clearly, it is not anything similar to a feeling of extreme peaceful or a feeling of finding yourself united with the universe..that many people think of. Far from those feelings, it is something much more.

Edited October 2, 2010 by exorcist_1699

[fizix]

Chi will naturally transmute to Shen (in varying degrees) whenever one is immersed in stillness; this means inner peace and serenity, calmness, a clear, thoughtless mind. This should be a natural process but people aren't living in their natural states (the Tao) they live in the illusion of the ego, which constantly interrupts the process of chi-->shen conversion with its insatiable thoughts/desires and wastes chi (through incessant thoughtstream). Meditation of any form, to varying degree pending the depth of stillness and other circumstances, will facilitate the chi to shen process. Shen is the spiritual endgame, chi is a huge toolbox.

[Guest paul walter]

Hi paul, what were your practices more specifically?

 

 

 

 

 

Well they weren't "practices" per-se (since I literally knew nothing and no-one remotely connected to this sort of stuff. I did however get given a copy of the TTC which immediately set me on this path and which was my guide, my infallible guide- karma I guess?),they were applications based on a great need to change my life and find it's "meaning", and based on the complete/direct observation of what needed to be done as well as the resolve never to let go of the process til seen through to the end/desired result. Basically what they'd call a mix of "fire" and "water" methods, watching the mind, ignoring/dissolving mind pain, never moving on to anything else til satisfied the problem that had come up was resolved (even if I felt the need to eat, sleep or go somewhere I thought I needed to sometimes would be put these aside in order to ram it home that this was not a part-time/to-be-continued-later affair---I was in all ways the ideal sensei, a real hardcase , it really built up muscle though! ). I refused to take transport so as to always be connected to the natural body rhythms, so had to walk everywhere (I'm a goat in Chinese astro ) Ultimately language started to disappear and become meaningless as did all metaphorical representations of direct 'experience'. The key I think was walking so much, applying these methods while walking. One thing I would do was to wear earplugs (I was in a major city) and listen to my breath, heartbeat and also it helped me see what things made me panic/emote cause you can notice the change in breath easier like this (with earplugs). So my every step would be guided by the need to have pretty much 'silence' in my ears which could only be done through walking very slowly and very lightly, which in turn regulated the breathing pattern which in turn helped build lower dantien chi which built etc etc. I consider myself very very lucky that I was all alone in this and had noone to guide, influence or tell me things were otherwise or could be done a different way. This way I had to get in touch with my body, mind and environment from scratch , confront them and see what was left at the 'other' end . I was also vego and ate very little--itself an interseting 'practice' (mine was 'based' on from poverty), one thing it does is clear you out energetically (it felt like this and still does) and also it made me shut down (famine condition)and reserve every tiny bit of strength I had and make every calorie count for everystep I took and not to waste calories on thought(our greatest use of fuel!). Well, it sounds very haphazard? but is essentially in line with all the hardcore practices I've since read about in the taoist traditions that weren't to do with fancy breathwork, chi manipulation etc.--I'd say what I did would have to be gone through first if you wanted to do any of the higher practices with any safety or real efficacy and without skipping areas that need to be looked at. It took just over two years for all this to bear the shen fruit. See you Paul.

 

 

 

just had a thought about how muddled this post might seem, I've never actually told anyone the whole story so just wrote what came out. Ask questions if needed

Edited October 1, 2010 by paul walter

[goonis38]

sorry I posted twice...

Edited October 1, 2010 by goonis38

[goonis38]

Yeah, you have to be very still and let it happen, forget about practices I'd say, just set your life around quietness and doing less and less, emptying the mind (that's how I did it, there was no drama just could feel the power/clarity getting closer to the goal and then one day-bang! , utter relief and joy/lightness at the 'breakthrough', which you shouldn't stop at or indulge in ). The heart can be very resistant for people like us/our culture so don't force it/fret. Jing into chi--same thing. As far as I know its the safest 'method' to just let it refine/reveal itself through being totally natural and dissolving the blocks the mind puts in front of 'us'. The power builds substantially over time just from releasing tension in the body/mind through emptying. I only put a name to all this recently cause I knew nothing about meditation or practices when i applied myself and got through. Turns ouot though that I had pretty much done everything "by the book" if by that I mean a secret taoist cultivation manual hidden in a cave somewhere on Mt Hua --trust the body, trust yourself (they know it all ). You automatically breath reverse when you let it all go too. Paul

 

Hey,

Awesome post Paul... I will do just that stay natural, stay with it. Stillness... I noticed the other day, the longer I layed or sit there. The better I felt, like something growing, and dissolving, at the same time... Thank you Melanie

[pilot]

the (theoretical) relation between chi and shen is unclear from my readings as well.

 

I even speculate the possibility that chi may not even convert to shen, but may instead empower the faculties necessary for its refinement (to borrow Rudolf Steiner's way of thinking or Seeing). Even if it is, according to Yang Jwing-Ming it may not even be written anywhere. Regardless, I predict higher order methods should become more accessible or decipherable by virtue of greater intuition as long as you keep working at your foundation.

 

See Tsung Hwa Jou's Tao of Meditation and Wilhelm's SGF.

[3bob]

will is converted when it willingly surrenders itself...

 

Om

[Astral_Anima]

astral, did you happen to search TTB archives? I located some posts of interest.

 

Converting Ching to Chi, Chi to Shen? Notes From The Tao of Meditation, Jou, Tsung Hwa.

15 June 2008

 

Shen Theory revisited madtv

26 November 2009

 

Alchemy of Jing, Qi, and Shen

31 December 2009

 

JINKIES! Thanks Rain! No I searched but i didn't happen to stumble upon these. Perhaps my powers of perception need more refinement Very interesting though, especially about the "inner light" thing. I've heard of people who teach this, but i've never heard anything about moving it to the dantien and up and down the front channel. VERY interesting, thank you again

 

-Astral

[fizix]

I predict higher order methods should become more accessible or decipherable by virtue of greater intuition as long as you keep working at your foundation.

THIS......

 

 

epic. No teacher is greater than the Tao itself.