Different goals of different lineages?

[JohnC]

Hey guys,

 

I was wondering if all practicing can create different results or do they all lead to the same place (the tao, enlightenment, kundalini activated, mco, rainbow/golden dragon body)?

 

Like I know some are geared toward healing (sfq?) and some martial application (mo pai/tenaga dalam?/tai chi and the like), and others spiritual... but isn't spiritual include healing and martial, but also have more?

 

I guess what I'm asking is do some paths have you develop certain things, but all paths don't have you develop that?

 

Like are all these things the same, just being called different names? Just being markers on the path?

 

Or do only some paths have you activate kundalini, others only activate mco, others give you the ability to fight with your chi/light shit on fire, and others lead you toward enlightenment/immortality/the rainbow gold dragon body?

 

John

[Mal]

[goonis38]

I use to subscribe quite strongly to the "all paths lead to the same place" view. And I still tend to believe that most systems are basically aiming for the same destination, just described differently with different parts of the path being emphasised.

 

But I recently encountered a saying something like -

"While there are many ways to get to a city, there are only a few ways to get to the top of a mountain"

 

Hey Mal it's Mel

That is a cool saying... Do you think everyone that works hard enough and in the right way, can get to the top of the mountain? Or only some that are destined to get there? Just a thought... Mel

[Mal]

[3bob]

first there is a mountain then there is no mountain...then there is

 

 

Om

[goonis38]

I'm not sure about "destined" but I do feel that if the mountain top is what you want you can get there, as long as you are willing to do what it takes.

 

Many people "want it" but won't put in the effort. Eg. I'd "like" to be able to do full lotus, but not enough to be bothered practicing what is required to get there.

 

Yea,

I hear ya, one step at a time right? Thanks Mal... I just love it Mal and Mel to funny...

Edited October 1, 2010 by goonis38

[Mal]

My name often gets shortened to Mel so it could be Mel and Mel

[NeiChuan]

An old Teacher of mine had a Funny saying.. Know your intentions for what your practicing, you won't enjoy looking down from the wrong mountain top...

[Vajrahridaya]

Each path defines what the mountain is differently, thus each path actually conquers an entirely different mountain. There are some side effects of this that are the same, such as self confidence, love, virtue... etc. But, there are subtle differences that need to be understood, or not... it's up to you. Everyone's an individual as is everyone's perception of the very same road that another has already been upon is unique.

 

During the stretch of eternal time, we will all have conquered many, many different mountains during one life or another, but which path entirely empties all mountains of inherent existence?

[Kali Yuga]

Each path is a blend of those things, and each path has its own particularities that allow you to blend it with another. But it really depends because some are not.

 

Some lineages are after specific things and thus require you to train in certain ways that forbid you training in other ways. In short, when you crack an egg and make an omelet with it you are gonna get screwed up if you try and make that egg into something else when you have already started making the omelet.

 

 

Some are about realizing the nature of reality and your own self. Hence, a wisdom path. These are usually of buddhist-orientation, with theravada buddhism being most notable. Meditations for paths like these are all about your mind and examining self-perception, the relation between one thing and another. This tends to change the practitioner's own perception of self versus other things. You go far beyond your own mind..

 

 

Some are about healing yourself and others. These usually are the paths that are most open to blending with other forms of meditation and paths because these usually have the least training restrictions..

 

 

 

Some are more about blending and flowing with what is. This has a bit more of taoist and zen flavor and generally require you to learn to stop trying to be anything at all. The awesome thing about this kind of path is that wherever you are, whatever you are, you find comfort, stability and tranquility. Home is where you are, all the time. You become one with the "way".

 

 

 

Some are about the development and acquisition and usage of powers and psychic phenomena. These path are usually hermit-type systems because of the sheer discipline and training one must undergo. An adept of this path is usually not found out in the open because our life today prevents this kind of training from happening. These are usually closed to the public and hidden because of the fact that few are ready and mature enough to handle that kind of power, and those that do have these can change the world for good or bad. They have special power to help or harm other people, and have seen a part of the world that most do not. One could be like a jedi or a sith. This is a dying breed however because people would rather have the easier pop culture buddhism, and simply are not willing to train 8 hours a day. This is a path for only a few who are found ready.

 

 

 

There are other paths but are rather extreme.. and require you to dabble with spirits and loosen the screws on your own sanity. you will get very special things from this, but almost no one goes unscathed. a lot of shamanic paths are this, there are many in africa. For example, a priesthood there requires you to have had a psychotic break before you even have a chance of being admitted.

 

 

 

 

of course there are a myriad of paths... each a blend of these. not merely one or another.

[3bob]

An old Teacher of mine had a Funny saying.. Know your intentions for what your practicing, you won't enjoy looking down from the wrong mountain top...

 

I like that...

[3bob]

Any paths that lead away from the secret hidden openly in your heart of hearts are side paths; for example -not even in the highest heaven is there complete satisfaction.

 

Om

Edited October 1, 2010 by 3bob

[Astral_Anima]

Any paths that lead away from the secret hidden openly in your heart of hearts are side paths; for example -not even in the highest heaven is there complete satisfaction.

 

 

 

The true "kingdom of heaven" is within, it's been said all along. One need only look inside, because the best things in life are the ones freely given (except for a boot to the head )

[JohnC]

Thanks guys for all the replies.

[suninmyeyes]

 

a lot of shamanic paths are this, there are many in africa. For example, a priesthood there requires you to have had a psychotic break before you even have a chance of being admitted.

 

 

Interesting...about psychotic break and priesthood(sorry for being away from topic). Do you know where in Africa?Reccomend a book or something on shamanism in Africa?

Cheers

Edited October 4, 2010 by suninmyeyes

[goldisheavy]

Hey guys,

 

I was wondering if all practicing can create different results or do they all lead to the same place (the tao, enlightenment, kundalini activated, mco, rainbow/golden dragon body)?

 

Like I know some are geared toward healing (sfq?) and some martial application (mo pai/tenaga dalam?/tai chi and the like), and others spiritual... but isn't spiritual include healing and martial, but also have more?

 

I guess what I'm asking is do some paths have you develop certain things, but all paths don't have you develop that?

 

Like are all these things the same, just being called different names? Just being markers on the path?

 

Or do only some paths have you activate kundalini, others only activate mco, others give you the ability to fight with your chi/light shit on fire, and others lead you toward enlightenment/immortality/the rainbow gold dragon body?

 

John

 

Not all the paths are the same, and nor do all paths lead to the same destination. Think about it -- is it true that all roads in Italy lead to Rome? It's obviously false. Just because you can travel on any road to Rome, doesn't mean that the road itself leads to Rome. Whether or not you get to Rome using any particular road depends on your intention. And people have many diverse intentions. You could say most people want to be happier, but how people conceive of happiness is very diverse.

 

I suggest you really study various teachings and traditions on your own. I also suggest you study strange things and various unpopular teachings. You don't have to follow any of them, but just take a look to get an overview of human endeavors. You should get an idea of just how different and diverse things are "out there."

 

Some teachings are based on fear mongering. Others are explicitly aimed at eliminating fear. Some teachings teach magic, others teach to accept things as they are and to avoid manipulate phenomena. Some teach that there is no such thing as "thing as they are." Other teachings teach that there is indeed a true state for things called "things as they are." Some teach objectivity. Some teach intersubjectivity. Some teach subjectivity. Some teach a view that's not possible to express in either objective or subjective terms. Some teachings say that all things are ultimately the same. Some teach that all things are ultimately unique (which is to say, radically not the same, different).

 

Just about for any teaching you can find a counter-teaching somewhere. And yet a lot, if not all, teachings have some kind of overlap.

 

This is why you must learn to think for yourself. Don't let any Guru, religion, tradition, school of thought, don't let anything think for you. You should examine everything you reasonably can and consider everything you can consider, but make your own conclusions. Don't be a slave to knowledge. Be a master of knowledge. And help other people become masters of knowledge as well.

Edited October 4, 2010 by goldisheavy

[LBDaoist]

All paths do not lead to the same place. The history of Taoism is littered with examples of misguided teachings and branches deviating from the root. The same things happen to Buddhists as well. So many people get involved in the practice looking for powers; physical, mystical, sexual or whatever else.

[Stigweard]

"The teaching of Tao originated in prehistoric times. For many generations people searched out methods by which to develop themselves. These methods are numerous and some have even been formalized as different schools which emphasize one or two things and make other aspects secondary to one's personal cultivation. Here I would like to give you some idea of the many effective methods which are practiced among achieved ones.

 

~ Nei Tan, Internal Medicine, which can support a person's spiritual future through refinement of the physical, mental and spiritual essence,

~ Tai Shi, Internal Breathing, which is higher than external breathing, although both are usually practiced together,

~ Tao Yin, Energy Channelling, for purposes of health and spiritual benefit,

~ Chun Shih, Visualization or concentration,

~ Fu Erh, External Nutrition, using natural herbs and other things,

~ Shing Jeau, Walking, for gathering and refining energy,

~ Fuh Chi, Internal Energy Maintenance,

~ Bei Gu, to stop eating food completely (especially helpful to those who are cultivating spiritually so that they can stop looking for and preparing food for themselves - eventually they combine their life with the environment),

~ Fu Chi, Intaking Natural Energy through breathing and swallowing, which should be practiced with Bei Gu,

~ Fang Jung, Sexual Cultivation,

~ Fu Jyeo, Secret Talismanic Characters, Words and also Invocations,

~ Jing Tan, Golden Elixir,

~ Shr Jeah, Method of Exuviation into a New Life."

 

p3, Ni Hua Ching, "Workbook for Spiritual Development of All People", Seven Star Communication, CA, 2005

 

So, in answer to the OP, "No" not all lineages are the same, however they seem to want to achieve the same basic goals:

 

• Health
  
• Happiness
  
• Longevity
  
• Spiritual Freedom
  

[Birch]

Am I naive in suggesting that everything wants the same thing?

 

i guess I might be. I've met such full-on evil and awfulness in my time here (not TTB's just to be clear) so far, that I'm not sure if that's what the people are/were after. I think they were/are

[JohnC]

Thanks guys for the posts.

[goldisheavy]

Am I naive in suggesting that everything wants the same thing?

 

i guess I might be. I've met such full-on evil and awfulness in my time here (not TTB's just to be clear) so far, that I'm not sure if that's what the people are/were after. I think they were/are

 

At a very deep level maybe you can say we all want the same thing. But if you just say "we all want the same thing" that ignores all the other levels of being where we don't. I wouldn't say that what you're saying is categorically wrong. There is some truth to it. But is it the complete truth?

 

To me, what's more important is not whether or not we want the same thing, but whether or not we can haggle in a half-civilized manner. If we can haggle, then it's OK to want different things.

Edited October 6, 2010 by goldisheavy

[Birch]

"At a very deep level maybe you can say we all want the same thing."

 

Good.

 

"But if you just say "we all want the same thing" that ignores all the other levels of being where we don't."

 

Now I'm confused.

 

"I wouldn't say that what you're saying is categorically wrong. There is some truth to it."

 

More confused. What categories?

 

 

"But is it the complete truth?"

 

I dunno, sometimes I think it might be.

 

"To me, what's more important is not whether or not we want the same thing, but whether or not we can haggle in a half-civilized manner."

 

Are we in an "ends and means" discussion?

 

"If we can haggle, then it's OK to want different things."

 

Haggle ? I shouldn't need to haggle if I want fresh water, health, food, shelter, y know...should I ?