Law Wheel

[ralis]

I think some posting on this thread are clueless when using the term cult. Here is a brief description and keep in mind, cult is a popularized term and most likely has no credibility in academic circles. Further, it is necessary to have a comprehensive understanding of top down thinking and how that relates to authoritarianism. There is a recent post of mine in this thread that may be helpful.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

 

Daniel Siegel in this excellent book writes about top down thinking and abuse.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Brain-Reflection-Attunement-Cultivation/dp/039370470X/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1286297199&sr=8-5

 

 

ralis

[Seth Ananda]

Your reply seems to carry negative energy. Would you mind telling us how Falun Dafa can be a cult when there is no membership, no money, no organization, no worshipping and no buildings? And 100 million cultivators mean that the sum total of Dafa cultivators probably is 10 times more than all other orthodox schools put together.. Something must be very right about Zhen-Shan-Ren or else so many people would not do it.

 

Dafa is something about you yourself raising your Gong level as you are becoming a better and better person in daily life and decreasing your karma as you go forward, hard but possible. Melanie, I congratulate you if you already can see the Falun, it is great news for you. I can tell you your kids can reach levels unimaginable if they start doing just a tiny bit of cultivation.

 

Dafa is the future of this world.

Hmm to begin with I think ralis is right about the term Cult being thrown around way to easily, so I do apologise for using it in not quite the right context. I tend to think of any religious/spiritual movement as a Cult. I am not anti Cultism at all in the sense that I think many cults have a lot to offer, so Yay for Cults!

When I said Falun is Cult, I was meaning it in the popular sense of the word Cult indicating a negative brainwashing thing, which the Falun movement is.

 

Thanks ralis for this, absolutely brilliant:

 

"Please read my recent post on authoritarian systems and power. Falun Dafa is a top down thinking organization created by Li Hongzhi. He claims infallible authority and has exclusive power in the transmission of the teachings. By popular definition that is a cult. Academic sociologists would classify Falun Dafa as a new religious movement.

 

Dafa is no more the future than any other mass movement. True believers are always distracted by the movement.

 

ralis"

 

 

And just because Li tells you there are 100 million practitioners doesn't mean its true. I think he would be lucky to have 1 million. with the small handful of people at the various city's meetings around the world, sorry just does not add up to much.

 

But that's a typical manipulative claim, aiming for Authority by numbers which you have obviously fallen for and now use your self, as you keep parroting the "100 mill practitioners, that proves there is something in it!"

 

Also as far as manipulative Cults go, [outside the Ineffability of the Gong Messiah who's 3rd eye is so deficient he could not see the ramifications of disturbing communist China, the country of Tiananmen square] Falun has plenty to offer. All the subtle manipulation, from claims that if you do not partake in their various activities, your cultivation will just stop, If you mix practices you become evil,

 

Constantly telling you that Falun is not a cult and that you are free to leave whenever you want yet simultaneously Instilling the Idea that you just will not be able to develop out side of Falun as you chi has been pushed out and replaced with Falun...

Asking you to believe that Falun is Buddhist/Taoist [trying to validate itself with popular belief systems] Yet claiming to go Way beyond them - which it in NO WAY does.

 

Show me one High level Fa cultivator who has anything on many many Buddhist/Taoist masters in terms of Meditative ability, healing ability, other Siddhis like Inner heat, control of body functions and much weirder stuff.

 

And if it is quasi Buddhist as it claims, where is the Emptiness Teachings? How are the students learning to see the actual nature of things [Emptiness and dependent arising, No Self] which is the absolute Crux of all Kinds of Buddhism as this was the essence of Buddha's realisation. There is nothing Buddhist about it. They are Lying to you. Just because there is a practice called Buddha holding Law wheel does not make it Buddhist.

 

I know it feels like my post to you was negative, or carrying negative energy, but was it really?

When we love something or believe that we have the absolute truth, and someone comes along and challenges it, it hurts us a bit.

How would the followers at Jones Town have felt when their family members pleaded with them to stop following a Nut Bar?

They would have felt all the Negative Evil of the world blinding their Family and trying to lead them astray. And they ended up happily downing the cool aid to prove themselves right.

 

This gets to the strongest negative Cult element within Falun and many other Cults.

Its when you start to believe any one who Challenges, does not agree, or thinks differently becomes Negative or Evil. And you Gauss have shown this perspective over and over again in your posts. In other words, you are already 'Brainwashed' my friend.

 

Blessings to you all and may Freedom Reign!

Seth

[Astral_Anima]

 

 

What is the point of cultivation if we only use what we gather and share it among the good?

 

Whats the point of gathering wealth if you only share it with the wealthy. It's elitism at it's best. Take those who are worthy and leave the rest behind...VERY compassionate

 

Also Zhen, Shan, Ren can be summed up in one word...LOVE. Love is (imho) the ONE AND ONLY rule/guide that we should hold ourselves by. However if people can't understand that one rule sometimes it has to be broken down into more specific rules. My best advise is to open your heart (I mean literally, do fish pose or kunlun or something until you reconnect with the source within) and let "God" within(or Higher Self or whatever word you want to use) guide you from then on. Remember that it's ALL inside you, you're your own best teacher when it comes to life, there's nowhere to go but inward.

 

Theres my 2c.

 

-Astral

[3bob]

Listen here 3bob, Namaskar, Om

I am no gal, surly not to you. You are a nut case, and a bug. You keep at me for some reason. Just leave me alone. I have no use for your negativity... So go take it to another place that enjoys it. Because it seems to me. No one like it.

And another thing, you don't know jack shit... So stick that in your pip and smoke on it... And take your good luck and stick it where the sun don't shine... Don't ever talk to me again. You are a total ass, and it looks like everyone notices, but you... Melanie

 

Your previous submissions sound like a different person compared to the apparently new you? Granted, I may have had some of that coming in some way or another, which btw. I have more or less mentioned once or twice in passing, I just forgot for awhile that, "hell hath no fury that matches a woman's scorn". (or something like that)

 

Blasto and I (and perhaps a couple of others) have had some differences but nothing (edit) beyond what I believe we might somehow or in some way come to some kind of terms; or agree to disagree.

Frankly, and if you ever want to - I don't mind trying to talk, or say nothing to me which is obviously your choice. For what it's worth I have been to where the sun don't shine, or the stars, or the moon, and the horror where souls scream and weep without voices, and I have also been in the other direction where things are more workable and amendable.

 

Namaskar

Edited October 6, 2010 by 3bob

[goonis38]

whoah....

 

One lesson that Taoism makes clear is that we are all involved in a vast process, a cycle between being and non-being, and that we are obliged to consider how our behavior can effect the behavior of others. Since this is a forum that deals in the currency of written communication, we are limited to the legitimate criticism of each other's ideas, not our personhood. In a culture where most people live in their heads and cannot distinguish between their thoughts and their selves, making this distinction can be difficult.

 

I'm on record as someone who has no qualms about leveling fierce attacks on poorly constructed ideas, and of course I get defensive when my ideas are treated in kind, but personal attacks are usually a sign of an empty quiver. We are responsible for the quality of our ideas and our ability to express them clearly in writing and must accept due criticism when we fail to uphold this simple standard. Barring that, the best defense is a strong offense; good reading and writing habits will make you a stronger thinker.

 

An empty quiver perhaps? Well I'm slowly reloading it thanks to pretentious ex-hall monitor douche's such as yourself... I live in the real world working my ass off getting shit done, not sitting in some coffee shop talking about how to get things done instead of action... Take what you think as intellect(mindless babble) and shove it up your ass...Melanie

[Guest paul walter]

Your reply seems to carry negative energy. Would you mind telling us how Falun Dafa can be a cult when there is no membership, no money, no organization, no worshipping and no buildings? And 100 million cultivators mean that the sum total of Dafa cultivators probably is 10 times more than all other orthodox schools put together.. Something must be very right about Zhen-Shan-Ren or else so many people would not do it.

Dafa is the future of this world.

 

 

You sir, are a liar. Paul

[Aetherous]

Take what you think as intellect(mindless babble) and shove it up your ass...Melanie

 

+1

[goonis38]

Your previous submissions sound like a different person compared to the apparently new you? Granted, I may have had some of that coming in some way or another, which btw. I have more or less mentioned once or twice in passing, I just forgot for awhile that, "hell hath no fury that matches a woman's scorn". (or something like that)

 

Blasto and I (and perhaps a couple of others) have had some differences but nothing unbreachable I believe,

Frankly, and if you ever want to - I don't mind trying to talk, or say nothing to me which is obviously your choice. For what it's worth I have been to where the sun don't shine, or the stars, or the moon, and the horror where souls scream and weep without voices, and I have also been in the other direction where things are more workable and amendable.

 

Namaskar

 

Don't hold your breath on wanting your advice anytime soon... Things are not workable and amendable here... Fuck Taoism!! Hail Common Fuck'n sense!!! Melanie

[Seth Ananda]

An empty quiver perhaps? Well I'm slowly reloading it thanks to pretentious ex-hall monitor douche's such as yourself... I live in the real world working my ass off getting shit done, not sitting in some coffee shop talking about how to get things done instead of action... Take what you think as intellect(mindless babble) and shove it up your ass...Melanie

Um Mel, what are you trying to do? Get your self banned?

I do not think he was being rude to you, maybe just reacting a bit to your strong reaction to 3bob. Read the Insult list again if you need too...

 

I do not think you have to take people disagreeing with you as being 'rude' to you or harassing you.

I like to think of the Bums here as my friends. If I couldn't Trust my friends to tell me how they really saw stuff, or to tell me I was in danger of being brainwashed by a cult, then they would not be my friends. They would be Indifferent strangers.

 

Blessings

Seth.

[Mal]

[Pero]

It just is so flowing into me, like it is meant to be there. Really isn't work at all... Cultivating Truth, Kindness, and Tolerance Simultaneously...

 

Don't hold your breath on wanting your advice anytime soon... Things are not workable and amendable here... Fuck Taoism!! Hail Common Fuck'n sense!!!

 

 

An empty quiver perhaps? Well I'm slowly reloading it thanks to pretentious ex-hall monitor douche's such as yourself... I live in the real world working my ass off getting shit done, not sitting in some coffee shop talking about how to get things done instead of action... Take what you think as intellect(mindless babble) and shove it up your ass...Melanie

 

 

Listen here 3bob, Namaskar, Om

I am no gal, surly not to you. You are a nut case, and a bug. You keep at me for some reason. Just leave me alone. I have no use for your negativity... So go take it to another place that enjoys it. Because it seems to me. No one like it.

 

 

And another thing, you don't know jack shit... So stick that in your pip and smoke on it... And take your good luck and stick it where the sun don't shine... Don't ever talk to me again. You are a total ass, and it looks like everyone notices, but you... Melanie

 

...

[Aetherous]

I don't mind being suspended for saying "+1" after Mel's insult...in saying that, I was really being insulting as well.

 

I didn't mean it to escalate, but more of an attempt to help a fellow bum see their reflection for a second.

[C T]

so sad

[Pero]

You sir, are a liar. Paul

 

Even if it's not true, is it a lie if you really believe something?

edit: big typo hehe...

Edited October 6, 2010 by Pero

[Guest paul walter]

Even if it's not true, is it a lie if you realive believe something?

 

 

 

Usually , yes.

[Pero]

Usually , yes.

 

How so? If I believed the Earth was flat and told you so, how would I be lying to you? I may be mistaken about the Earth being flat but I'm not sure if that counts as a lie as well.

[Marblehead]

I'm glad I decided to not post in this thread.

 

Peace & Love to Y'all!

[King Kabalabhati]

I'm glad I decided to not post in this thread.

 

Peace & Love to Y'all!

 

You just did FOOL

 

big universal loooove everyone

[3bob]

so sad

 

sadness is turned to gladness by unalterable and undefeated compassion of the enlightened ones.

 

Om

[Birch]

"I may be mistaken about the Earth being flat but I'm not sure if that counts as a lie as well."

 

Oh no A "flat earther".

 

I guess if there's a risk of being mistaken, you might wanna say "Hey, I dunno, but I reckon this world might be flat, what do you think?"

 

And not "Hey you there, the world is flat! Don't agree? Well then I will threaten you with violence of some kind"

[Encephalon]

sadness is turned to gladness by unalterable and undefeated compassion of the enlightened ones.

 

Om

 

It has also been known to happen by regular ol' country folk.

[Gauss]

Please read my recent post on authoritarian systems and power. Falun Dafa is a top down thinking organization created by Li Hongzhi. He claims infallible authority and has exclusive power in the transmission of the teachings. By popular definition that is a cult. Academic sociologists would classify Falun Dafa as a new religious movement.

 

Dafa is no more the future than any other mass movement. True believers are always distracted by the movement.

 

ralis

 

 

All orthodox religions have a Master who present the teachings and still the orthodox religions are no cults.

The ONLY difference is that Master Li Hongzhi is still alive while spreading his teachings and doing the scriptures himself. All the orthodox religions were started by everyday people after the Master had passed away(Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni etc). That made these religions go wrong since the everyday people misinterpreted the real teachings. It also shows us how incredibly strong Master Li is, even compared to the old religious icons.

 

Remember, Falun Dafa is not an everyday phenomenon like you seem to imply in your analysis.

 

All people who talk about Dafa without even reading the book or trying the exercises are talking about things they absolutely have no clue about. Dafa is supernormal and many people can not believe it until they experience it.

 

No matter whether we look at the Bible, the Buddhist scriptures, Nostradamus, Swedenborg, Ge An, the Asatro etc etc. They all predicted Falun Dafa to take over this world at Judgment Day. They mentioned it with all kinds of signs like the eastern Kings, the turning wheel from the east, "Li the God - He who comes from the east with knives and swords to rectify the world", the Udumbara flower prophecy, the 200 million horsemen, the 1999 CCP persecution of Good by the Dragon etc etc.

 

Just look at the world with open eyes and an open mind, is anything that happens a coincidence? Is your life not planned by a higher being?

 

Is dafa rising up now a coincidence? This world is bad and immoral and it needs Truth-Compassion-Forbearance and it is going to get it no matter what some people think.

 

There are dimensions much higher(and more microscopic) than ours and the beings in charge there can do whatever they want to us down here. They want us to be truthful, compassionate and forbearing because that is the ultimate law of this universe.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Gauss

[ralis]

All orthodox religions have a Master who present the teachings and still the orthodox religions are no cults.

The ONLY difference is that Master Li Hongzhi is still alive while spreading his teachings and doing the scriptures himself. All the orthodox religions were started by everyday people after the Master had passed away(Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni etc). That made these religions go wrong since the everyday people misinterpreted the real teachings. It also shows us how incredibly strong Master Li is, even compared to the old religious icons.

 

Remember, Falun Dafa is not an everyday phenomenon like you seem to imply in your analysis.

 

All people who talk about Dafa without even reading the book or trying the exercises are talking about things they absolutely have no clue about. Dafa is supernormal and many people can not believe it until they experience it.

 

No matter whether we look at the Bible, the Buddhist scriptures, Nostradamus, Swedenborg, Ge An, the Asatro etc etc. They all predicted Falun Dafa to take over this world at Judgment Day. They mentioned it with all kinds of signs like the eastern Kings, the turning wheel from the east, "Li the God - He who comes from the east with knives and swords to rectify the world", the Udumbara flower prophecy, the 200 million horsemen, the 1999 CCP persecution of Good by the Dragon etc etc.

 

Just look at the world with open eyes and an open mind, is anything that happens a coincidence? Is your life not planned by a higher being?

 

Is dafa rising up now a coincidence? This world is bad and immoral and it needs Truth-Compassion-Forbearance and it is going to get it no matter what some people think.

 

There are dimensions much higher(and more microscopic) than ours and the beings in charge there can do whatever they want to us down here. They want us to be truthful, compassionate and forbearing because that is the ultimate law of this universe.

 

Obviously, you have been drinking the Dafa kool aid. I will comment later.

[adept]

All orthodox religions have a Master who present the teachings and still the orthodox religions are no cults.

The ONLY difference is that Master Li Hongzhi is still alive while spreading his teachings and doing the scriptures himself. All the orthodox religions were started by everyday people after the Master had passed away(Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni etc). That made these religions go wrong since the everyday people misinterpreted the real teachings. It also shows us how incredibly strong Master Li is, even compared to the old religious icons.

 

Remember, Falun Dafa is not an everyday phenomenon like you seem to imply in your analysis.

 

All people who talk about Dafa without even reading the book or trying the exercises are talking about things they absolutely have no clue about. Dafa is supernormal and many people can not believe it until they experience it.

 

No matter whether we look at the Bible, the Buddhist scriptures, Nostradamus, Swedenborg, Ge An, the Asatro etc etc.They all predicted Falun Dafa to take over this world at Judgment Day. They mentioned it with all kinds of signs like the eastern Kings, the turning wheel from the east, "Li the God - He who comes from the east with knives and swords to rectify the world", the Udumbara flower prophecy, the 200 million horsemen, the 1999 CCP persecution of Good by the Dragon etc etc.

 

Just look at the world with open eyes and an open mind, is anything that happens a coincidence? Is your life not planned by a higher being?

 

Is dafa rising up now a coincidence? This world is bad and immoral and it needs Truth-Compassion-Forbearance and it is going to get it no matter what some people think.

 

There are dimensions much higher(and more microscopic) than ours and the beings in charge there can do whatever they want to us down here. They want us to be truthful, compassionate and forbearing because that is the ultimate law of this universe.

 

Oh dear !

[Marblehead]

You just did FOOL

 

big universal loooove everyone

 

Not a cool word to use. Some people would be very offended by it.