Should I train BJJ or Aikido?

[SheepishLord]

for me i want to train it for several reasons (and i'm just offering this as example):

1. movement based (partner version of personal movement practice, like a dance)

2. deepening relationships (it's just another type of relationship, one that if learnt to engage in effectively, carries over to life in many ways).

3. sense of self-security (second rung in maslows hierarchy).

4. creative exploration (the way i want to study MA is about creative exploration, and not about rote learning of techniques..... i have given up all rote learning since finishing uni, it has no place in the human experience. so it just becomes another venue to express my infinite creativity).

 

good enough for ya plato???

 

That's great! If you can find a martial art that fulfills these goals then you are doing the right thing.

 

I would just take dance classes and purchase a can of mace! (just messing with you)

[neimad]

already found two!

 

cheng hsin & flowfighting..... i'm studying cheng hsin and am gonna start learning about flowfighting too.

 

but true... it's pretty rare to find those goals in a MA, but it's about how you approach the training more so than anything.

 

dancing is cool too (looking to take up breakdancing shortly )

 

dunno about the mace tho...

[Cameron]

Shieky,

 

Once again, the only reason you ask these questions is because you have no focus.

 

WHY are you studying a martial art???

 

Once you can answer this question from a position of truth there will be no issue.

 

If you want to fight in UFC, study BJJ.

 

If you want to be a bouncer, study Aikido.

 

WHAT do you want???

 

Do you enjoy contact with men?

Do you want to get in shape?

Do you dream of glory in the Octagon?

 

IF you are learning martial arts for real-world application, this shit is all useless. In sport competition such as UFC and PRIDE here are a list of things that are not allowed:

 

eye gouges

testicle attacks

wrist and finger attacks

face locks along with many catch wrestling techniques

ear attacks

bites

stomps (UFC) elbows (PRIDE)

Joint strikes

spinal strikes

 

You know why these things aren't allowed? Because they allow someone with no training to take out all of your heroes. Ends fights in a few seconds.

 

No $$$ can be made watching such fights.

 

So figure out what you really want in life and just go for it.

 

ummm...It's an awesome workout and it's fun? I can handle myself in a fight from what I learned years ago at some point it's jsut not about that man. it's not about goals it's about training.

[SheepishLord]

ummm...It's an awesome workout and it's fun?

 

I guess you don't believe that is the real reason you like BJJ either.

 

it's not about goals it's about training.

 

Dude, wake up from that slumber.

[Cameron]

Dude....loosen up...Damn New Yorkers always have to get somewhere

 

Seriously, the vibe in Az is more mellow..you would probably chill out if you lived somewhere else.

 

I know because if I was in NYC I would probably be in that mode to don't waste my time!

 

Cam(who does things for the enjoyment of them and doesn't have a problem with goals but does think there is more to life than goals).

 

But represent that all you like maybe in a few years I'll come around to your Fureyism.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Cameron

[thaddeus]

i agree that aikido shouldn't be a technique based martial arts..... and likely when originally taught, it wasn't.

 

that's been lost somehow so now all people train are techniques, when really what we want to be doing is using those techniques to understand mechanics and principles of movement..... i.e. blending of forces, etc.

 

unfortunately i have never seen it taught that way, there is always a technique and a compliant partner.

i have had ideas of trying to take up instructing it myself and using it as such.... to explore the mechanics of movement and how the 'technique' happens as a result of the movement, and not the other way around.

 

Cool..i've been looking for a training partner like you! In all my years of training I haven't met anyone who understands that concept.

But there is a way to practice flow while still drilling the same technique. You just put in your mind that your end result will be kotagaeshi. Then no matter how uke attacks, you listen to his power and blend/follow, redirect it and then position yourself into the technique you want. You mentioned in another thread about doing the techniques against friends and familiy and it not working. Combine the concepts you're learning in that flow stuff and figure out how to get friends and family into the locks. Ultimately it really shouldn't be any different than the new stuff you're studying.

I personally don't see why this idea is hard to grasp, but even in classes dedicated to just this concept (because it's basic taiji theory), people don't get it. So if you are ever in NYC, I would love to work on these ideas.

T

[Peregrino]

[thaddeus]

 

Currently I'm training at a very good boxing/kickboxing gym here in Vigo (Spain),

 

How is the caldo gallego? My family is from there...

[neimad]

Cool..i've been looking for a training partner like you! In all my years of training I haven't met anyone who understands that concept.

But there is a way to practice flow while still drilling the same technique. You just put in your mind that your end result will be kotagaeshi. Then no matter how uke attacks, you listen to his power and blend/follow, redirect it and then position yourself into the technique you want. You mentioned in another thread about doing the techniques against friends and familiy and it not working. Combine the concepts you're learning in that flow stuff and figure out how to get friends and family into the locks. Ultimately it really shouldn't be any different than the new stuff you're studying.

I personally don't see why this idea is hard to grasp, but even in classes dedicated to just this concept (because it's basic taiji theory), people don't get it. So if you are ever in NYC, I would love to work on these ideas.

T

 

i'd be happy to have a train with you where i ever that way.

 

your right, it shouldn't be any different.... and you could slip yourself into that mentality while in class, it's just difficult when you are doing the same technique from the same attack repeated. it just creates a rythm that is "reaction based" to use scotts article. combine that with a teaching methodology that is so strict about "this hand goes here, and this foot points this way, etc" and you are heading for stagnation.

if you want to become spontaneous in application, then you need to train spontaneously (using 'you' here as the whole general you, not you in particular thaddeus).

 

other people make the claim that you study the basic, solid, technique for years before heading into spontaneous exploration...... but that just means when you get to that stage you now have to break down that habit of being reaction-based and stuck in static, solid technique (or in the case of more aikikai style training - as i was training iwama - you are still training the same way... probably with an even more compliant partner... it's just done faster, is all).

 

i haven't trained aikido in quite a while now, but i felt i got a pretty good understanding of the techniques and they are still there. sometime i will find people to explore that in a more spontaneous manner, using more cheng hsin/RMAX methodology.

i should have been a black belt by the time i finished, but i stopped bothering with gradings at nikyu and my training slowly tapered away from 4 days a week down to none, where it is now.

it's all still there now.

 

if you ever get the chance i urge you to train with either peter ralston (this stuff will blow your mind! it's very ontological as well as being martial - some of the games we play are just plain bizarre... but very fun) or with any RMAX flowfighting instructors and you'll find it's exactly the kind of training you want, i think.

 

[Peregrino]

[thaddeus]

[mYTHmAKER]

I abstain.

Don't give away your power.

Ask yourself which one you should study before you go to sleep

and ask to have the answer when you wake up.

If you truly can't decide do both and at some point you will know

which one is for you. Maybe both are.

[Lozen]

Peregrino,

I've done a little bit of JKD informally in AZ, yeah. More of a focus on FMA though, with a little bit of Silat. Not really sure what the future holds for those classes... My training partner and I had a bit of a personality conflict, and I thought our coach was going to go back to the shadows when he told us to take a month off. He told me to find a new training partner and I haven;t... Now he wants to meet with me for a half hour to see what I've retained. Time to pull out the Inosanto DVDs... Kind of a shame my training situation went sour as my instructor is one of the most amazing and technically skillful people I've ever met... We'll see what happens... Hard to do FMA without a training partner, though.

 

I've been dojo window shopping just in case and seriously considering training in ninjutsu (budo taijutsu), though still flirting with the idea of yang-style tai chi or aiki or boxing or mma or or or or or or... Visited a wing chun school but people looked really tensed up...

Edited May 11, 2006 by Lozen

[Peregrino]

Visited a wing chun school but people looked really tensed up...

 

Funny, one of the guys in my grappling group back in VA was very dismissive of Wing Chun and arts that employ a lot of trapping in general, claiming that trapping "just doesn't work." I disagree--trapping seems great for people with a lot of fast-twitch fibers! (It's still important to know how to defend oneself on the ground, of course, even if grappling does not form the nucleus of one's fighting method, IMHO.)

 

Have you checked out any Paul Vunak vids? He seems really no-nonsense, and uses a lot of trapping techniques.

 

Hmm, I think it's time for me to start the San Shou/Sanda/Xanda thread . . .

[Cameron]

So after all of this I have decided to go back to Aikido. My reasoning...

 

1. I think Aikido is more in harmony with my other practices and will take me deeper into the direction of enlightenment and cultivation than away from it. Not saying bjj takes you away but aikido emphasis on controlling an attacker with causing least harm is a better intention than choking someone out IMO.(although there are chokes in aikido).

 

2. Aikido develops center. Bjj has no concept of center as most of the technique is done on your back or on top of a guy. Aikido is more internal.

 

3. I can do Aikido for my whole life and get better and better. BJJ is like football you can only take so many tackles from a 20 year old kid. Aikido can be done forever and in fact the best people are in there 40's and 50's.

 

 

4. It works. I ask some of our employees to attack me and whenever I use BJJ they are like "WTF"? and unless I try to take them down it doesn't work well. With aikido I can quickly submit most people(unless they are highly trained then it's a different thing altogether)quickly and with little damage.

 

Thanks for the feedback regardless.

 

Cam

Edited May 14, 2006 by Cameron

[Lozen]

I'm proud of you, Cameron, for going against the opinion poll.

 

I was laughing when you were polling people on which movie you should see.

[Smile]

I'm proud of you, Cameron, for going against the opinion poll.

He is going with opinions that count.

[Lozen]

He is going with opinions that count.

 

You mean his own?

 

Oh, btw, I heard you smell bad.