trouble with back posture

[Non]

SO I read that the correct meditation posture is to keep the back straight. That's obvious. But how can the back become straight with the tailbone tucked in? It's probably easier if I just see it as my upper back being straightened, and lower back being tucked in, or curving in.

 

Then I see people who do yoga meditation, as opposed to chinese meditation, and have a distinct lower back concave curve rather than convex as in chinese meditation.

 

So which is right?

 

I dont see the back being straight in either of these if the lower back is curved. UNless it's my scoliosis that's stopping me from meditating properly.

 

I guess I can just stick to standing meditation.

 

edit: actually standing meditation doesn't do jack for me. I guess I'll be unable to meditate for as long as I live with scoliosis problems.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Non

[NeiChuan]

SO I read that the correct meditation posture is to keep the back straight. That's obvious. But how can the back become straight with the tailbone tucked in? It's probably easier if I just see it as my upper back being straightened, and lower back being tucked in, or curving in.

 

Then I see people who do yoga meditation, as opposed to chinese meditation, and have a distinct lower back concave curve rather than convex as in chinese meditation.

 

So which is right?

 

I dont see the back being straight in either of these if the lower back is curved. UNless it's my scoliosis that's stopping me from meditating properly.

 

I guess I can just stick to standing meditation.

 

edit: actually standing meditation doesn't do jack for me. I guess I'll be unable to meditate for as long as I live with scoliosis problems.

 

 

Just do what works for you.. Just get your back as upright as comfortably possible and do your business.

 

I remember a couple months into meditating I was lenient with a problem I corrected, I left my head droop down very low because it was comfortable.

 

These little bumps in the the road are fine for an amount of time, but if you can practice with them with no problems, I say go for it.

 

So don't let yourself be held back.

[DaoChild]

SO I read that the correct meditation posture is to keep the back straight. That's obvious. But how can the back become straight with the tailbone tucked in? It's probably easier if I just see it as my upper back being straightened, and lower back being tucked in, or curving in.

 

Then I see people who do yoga meditation, as opposed to chinese meditation, and have a distinct lower back concave curve rather than convex as in chinese meditation.

 

So which is right?

 

I dont see the back being straight in either of these if the lower back is curved. UNless it's my scoliosis that's stopping me from meditating properly.

 

I guess I can just stick to standing meditation.

 

edit: actually standing meditation doesn't do jack for me. I guess I'll be unable to meditate for as long as I live with scoliosis problems.

 

The spine in its natural position has 3 curves, you should maintain those if you want to conserve the long-term health of your back.

 

A "straight" back does not mean straight spine -- for example, while sitting, if your back hurts in the middle it is probably because you are slouching (read: you are tucking your butt and tailbone in, while in reality you should pull your butt out before you sit on a chair in order to align your spine right).

 

If you are doing seated meditation, use a thick cushion, lean forward, pull your butt cheeks back far (as if sticking out your butt to do a squat), and then sit back into your cushion. This maintains the proper spinal curvature and you will not have to force muscles to keep upright posture.

[balance.]

 

 

 

In sitting for shikan-taza, we were told to lift up gently from the sternum, move our neck up and back a bit-- so that it touches the nape of our collar, to pull up gently from the crown, and to tilt our chin slightly down... At this point, I prefer to tuck my tailbone in slightly... Not much.. Just enough to get a little extension.. I find if I allow too much of a curve I begin to feel some pain in my lower back.

 

* To clarify... We were instructed to allow our tailbone/lumbar region to assume its "natural" curve... But I think there's a difference between really embellishing that curve by being lazy and "falling" into it, and by gently guiding the curve by being attentive and maintaining unity... Being aware of certain posture points in general seems to form the proper curves anyway... I find when I lock into the proper position, my body prefers to maintain it.

 

 

... It's also helps to lift up from your kua while paying basic attention to the above guidelines... But we all are different, and it's important to feel intuitively what works for you without setting up unnecessary mental barriers. Every challenge is a blessing and an opportunity to temper ourselves and our spirits through trial and we shouldn't just concede and pack it in.

 

 

Conversely, there's always shavasana (corpse pose). I remember reading about a particularly famous nun in Road to Heaven (whose name escapes me currently) whom became known as the sleeping dragon as all her meditation was done from corpse. While there certainly are limitations with that pose in terms of energetics, you may find it helpful to pursue an alternate approach for the time being.. And who knows, being able to let go fully in shavasana may allow you (not to say you're unable now, mind you) to more effectively integrate seated postures into your regimen.

 

 

best.

 

 

balance.

 

 

*edit.

Edited October 6, 2010 by balance.

[Encephalon]

 

 

 

In sitting for shikan-taza, we were told to lift up gently from the sternum, move our neck up and back a bit-- so that it touches the nape of our collar, to pull up gently from the crown, and to tilt our chin slightly down... At this point, I prefer to tuck my tailbone in slightly... Not much.. Just enough to get a little extension.. I find if I allow too much of a curve I begin to feel some pain in my lower back.

 

* To clarify... We were instructed to allow our tailbone/lumbar region to assume its "natural" curve... But I think there's a difference between really embellishing that curve by being lazy and "falling" into it, and by gently guiding the curve by being attentive and maintaining unity... Being aware of certain posture points in general seems to form the proper curves anyway... I find when I lock into the proper position, my body prefers to maintain it.

 

 

... It's also helps to lift up from your kua while paying basic attention to the above guidelines... But we all are different, and it's important to feel intuitively what works for you without setting up unnecessary mental barriers. Every challenge is a blessing and an opportunity to temper ourselves and our spirits through trial and we shouldn't just concede and pack it in.

 

 

Conversely, there's always shavasana (corpse pose). I remember reading about a particularly famous nun in Road to Heaven (whose name escapes me currently) whom became known as the sleeping dragon as all her meditation was done from corpse. While there certainly are limitations with that pose in terms of energetics, you may find it helpful to pursue an alternate approach for the time being.. And who knows, being able to let go fully in shavasana may allow you (not to say you're unable now, mind you) to more effectively integrate seated postures into your regimen.

 

 

best.

 

 

balance.

 

 

*edit.

 

 

Man, that's some mighty fine thinkin'! Nice writing, too! With regard to standing meditation -

the subtle adjustment of tucking in the pelvis can be grasped by standing with your back against the wall and asking someone to put their hand in between your lumbar region and the wall so you can sense that space. Now, tucking the pelvis in will flatten out the curvature of your lumbar region, leaving no room for someone to insert their hand.

I've read some esoteric attempts to explain why this is critical in standing meditation; some have said that this is to align the dantiens, and elsewhere it has been suggested that this postural correction will automatically start you on a proper abdominal breathing practice.

I love sitting meditation more now than my standing, but I owe it to standing, so hopefully you'll be able to at least enjoy the fruits of that practice if sitting remains problematic.

[Non]

mabo training helps I guess. I know from kung fu training somewhat how to have a straight back, I shd probably do it more often. With a candle.

 

Move head in, chin tucked in slightly. Upper back straightened and tailbone tucked in. Trying to get the thighs parellel, and open as much as possible yet keeping the feet pointing forward as much as possible. When I see kung fu movies keeping the feet pointing forward is one thing I don't see often.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Non