Zeroing in on specific internal organs

[Encephalon]

Ever since reading Frantzis' account of a Chinese internal martial arts master asking him point blank "Can you feel your liver?" I've been slowly working toward the day when I could isolate specific organs too. I've been following Frantzis' dissolving map for over two years and once I felt competent with the vetebral column I went for the kidneys, and I'm pretty confident that I can buzz both of them well, barring a kidney chi - induced delusional episode. Any luck with targeting organs?

[adept]

This sounds fascinating.

Can this be learned from written sources or directly from B.K. Frantzis ?

[devoid]

Any luck with targeting organs?

Absolutely!

 

You mentioned the liver as an example: it happens to be the one I've worked on most extensively. When I really concentrate on it I can tell you when my bile production increases, whether the pressure in the biliary system is going up or down, whether my liver is getting the signal from the brain to expand the cells (the cause of fatty liver) or when my Sphincter of Oddi [soD] opens and closes (SoD is the "valve" between the common bile duct from the liver / pancreas and the duodenum (connecting the stomach and the intestine).

 

I initially started out with this to fix a condition I was having - you can find the article I wrote on it here: http://www.justalittleqi.com/choledocholithiasis-manual-fix.html

(The article is more targetting the condition I was curing, but goes into detail on how I went about getting to know my liver).

 

But in general, here's a brief summary of the strategy I used:

1. Stand relaxed / song (as e.g. described by BK Frantzis) and simply focus on the area you are interested.

2. Warm up / stimulate the appropriate meridians for the organ in question.

3. Go through the mind - start by looking "backwards", into the center of the head and then follow the spine down to the organ (more detail on this in my article)

4. (In order to increase the chance of success) Try to think of when the organ in question might be most active or how you can activate it through stimuli (especially relevant if looking at digestive organs).

 

I wish you happy exploration of the physical micro cosmos!

 

NB Some schools / texts will tell you about color (example: liver = green) or elements (example: liver = wood) or feelings (example: liver = anger, temperament, anxiety) etc - I tried that out too, but I must admit that this part didn't really do it for me. I am not saying it doesn't work, just that it was perhaps too abstract for me to use it for something tangible

[Encephalon]

Pretty impressive, Devoid. That quality of corroboration is inspiring. Just one question; I'm awaiting a library book that has exquisite illustrations of the meridians. Did you use a meridian map or have you memorized them? I'd be lost without some of the illustrations I've purchased or culled from the Net. In a perfect world, we'd all be practicing our zhan zhuang in front of a life-sized skeleton with meridians included.

 

Edit: I'm going to start with the liver next, since it is so prominently out front. And, I haven't had much luck with color coordination either, as I typically take Robert Bruce's advice and use a white or hot pink energy ball for dissolving problem areas.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Blasto

[Encephalon]

This sounds fascinating.

Can this be learned from written sources or directly from B.K. Frantzis ?

 

I can only attribute my fledgling success to 3 years of consistent zhan zhuang, or more specifically, Chu nei kung, which really stokes the coals of energy movement. I just found Frantzis' materials helpful in dissolving gates, which allowed me to play dot-to-dot along the meridians. I can't how I could be successful without the ZZ, but I guess I'll never know. I ain't no chiflow master, that's fer sure. I've had consistency and 2,3,4 hours of practice time on my side.

[Sloppy Zhang]

This sounds fascinating.

Can this be learned from written sources or directly from B.K. Frantzis ?

 

I've only learned Frantzis' stuff from written sources. The stuff in writing focuses a lot on feeling and relaxation. So having a relaxed body goes a long way into being able to feel stuff. Also, having a calm, still mind goes a long way too, because then you can focus on what's actually HAPPENING rather than what you "think" is happening, what "should" be happening, and what you are afraid "might" be happening.

 

Unless you're doing some mind-to-mind or energy transfer transmissions/lessons, there isn't anyone who can make your mind get stilled, or your body relaxed. YOU are going to have to do that.

 

And once you get to that point, you'll realize a whole lot of things are going on in your body all the time without you noticing

 

 

As to the broader topic of the thread: haven't really tried.

[LBDaoist]

I made it from the lungs, to the heart and into the kidneys during meditation. I found that as I was able to relax one organ, the sensation and awareness of the next organ naturally occurred.

 

I also practice healing sounds. There are six of them, but the only ones that I have had success with are the lungs and the heart. When I get the tone and intensity right, I can feel the vibrations centered in the associated organ.

[RiverSnake]

This has always been an area of interest for me. Thanks for the post. I've heard great things about B.K.. Now i'll definetly get a copy of his book.

[bindo]

Many years ago, B.K. Frantzis was on the Phil Donahue show and he was talking about this same subject. He then stood up and showed his back to the camera and began "wiggling" his kidneys like bodybuilders bounce their pecs. Wild stuff, man.

[Encephalon]

Many years ago, B.K. Frantzis was on the Phil Donahue show and he was talking about this same subject. He then stood up and showed his back to the camera and began "wiggling" his kidneys like bodybuilders bounce their pecs. Wild stuff, man.

 

Well I dare say that this last report makes me wanna work even harder... seriously. God, I wish I still lived up in San Fran, I'd be taking classes from this guy all the time.

 

Thanks for all the good inspiring reports.

[devoid]

Pretty impressive, Devoid. That quality of corroboration is inspiring. Just one question; I'm awaiting a library book that has exquisite illustrations of the meridians. Did you use a meridian map or have you memorized them? I'd be lost without some of the illustrations I've purchased or culled from the Net. In a perfect world, we'd all be practicing our zhan zhuang in front of a life-sized skeleton with meridians included.

 

Edit: I'm going to start with the liver next, since it is so prominently out front. And, I haven't had much luck with color coordination either, as I typically take Robert Bruce's advice and use a white or hot pink energy ball for dissolving problem areas.

 

Yes, very much so: I will use any material available to help me out: I used meridian charts (I even used different ones in order to triangulate), I used western anatomy - both maps and descriptions, etc. For me, the name of the game is to make the most out of it from what I can gather, whether coming from the east, the west, from myself or even martial arts.

 

On a side-note: be careful not to get caught up in meridians only - there's so much more to the body than that. Obviously, skin and bones. Tendons, legiments, etc. as well. But very, very importantly: Your brain regulates your organs through physical impulses and signals sent through your central nervous system. In its most rudimentary form, you may experience pain, prickling sensations, etc. - by all means, use every sensory input that your body provides you with - for this part you will need to tap into what you learned from meditation, i.e. stilling the mind and concentrating while relaxing (in a song way).

[devoid]

In this thread, BK Frantzis is mentioned a number of times. I too, am very impressed with his work: 'Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body'. In fact, it got me so excited that I wanted to learn more from him. However, for every next book of his I read, I got more and more disappointed. I didn't get disappointed about anything from the first book, but what put me off was the fact that I didn't find any new teachings in his next books other than: restating what had already been said, buy the next, buy the course, etc.

 

Eventually, after having read pretty much all his books I decided that my path into martial arts, meditation and spirituality would be another way than through his program.

 

As such I am very thankful for the information I learned from 'Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body' - it will teach you stillness breathing, IMA postures (important for IMA, qigong and standing meditation) as well as a few practical exercises. It will even outline a fantastic 16-part neigong system (which, unfortunately, you will not find more information on in any of his other other books).

 

As such, 'Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body' was transformational for me in that it became a starting point in a long and ongoing journey. To paraphrase Laozi I would like to end off with this statement which I can wholeheartedly subscribe to: The shortest path to the goal may well be what initially appeared to be the longest.

[Encephalon]

In this thread, BK Frantzis is mentioned a number of times. I too, am very impressed with his work: 'Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body'. In fact, it got me so excited that I wanted to learn more from him. However, for every next book of his I read, I got more and more disappointed. I didn't get disappointed about anything from the first book, but what put me off was the fact that I didn't find any new teachings in his next books other than: restating what had already been said, buy the next, buy the course, etc.

 

Eventually, after having read pretty much all his books I decided that my path into martial arts, meditation and spirituality would be another way than through his program.

 

As such I am very thankful for the information I learned from 'Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body' - it will teach you stillness breathing, IMA postures (important for IMA, qigong and standing meditation) as well as a few practical exercises. It will even outline a fantastic 16-part neigong system (which, unfortunately, you will not find more information on in any of his other other books).

 

As such, 'Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body' was transformational for me in that it became a starting point in a long and ongoing journey. To paraphrase Laozi I would like to end off with this statement which I can wholeheartedly subscribe to: The shortest path to the goal may well be what initially appeared to be the longest.

 

I've heard that criticism before regarding the cannibalizing of original works for the purpose of selling books. I don't believe he's alone.

 

I understand what you're saying about meridian work. It would not be practical for me at my age to busy myself with critical distinctions between the nervous system pathways and classic meridians. I can make point to point contact between my lower tantien and the torso or limbs, but I'm working on smoothness, openness, and in some cases, speed of transmission. That's all I can reasonably expect as a 50 yr-old.

 

Thanks again for you feedback.

[ralis]

A long time student of B.K. Frantzis here in Santa Fe teaches the energy gate practice. I learned it 15 years ago and found the practice to be beneficial. The hard part was learning to relax in the posture. B.K. warns not to open the gates in the brain without his guidance and that opening needs to happen all at once.

 

The energy gate practice is very similar to Zhan Zhuang.

Edited October 7, 2010 by ralis

[gendao]

Ever since reading Frantzis' account of a Chinese internal martial arts master asking him point blank "Can you feel your liver?"

Wang Shujin asked him that (p 44).

Many years ago, B.K. Frantzis was on the Phil Donahue show and he was talking about this same subject. He then stood up and showed his back to the camera and began "wiggling" his kidneys like bodybuilders bounce their pecs. Wild stuff, man.

Wow, anyone got video of that?

 

This episode was probably between 1993-1995 to publicize his Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body book with Deepak Chopra..?

Edited October 7, 2010 by vortex

[Taomeow]

Wow, anyone got video of that?

 

This episode was probably between 1993-1995 to publicize his Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body book with Deepak Chopra..?

 

I don't have a video, but I swear I saw with my own eyes how Wang Liping moves his liver. I was standing a foot away.

[Pero]

I wish there was a video of someone doing that because I can't imagine how moving an internal organ is seen from the outside.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Pero

[Encephalon]

I don't have a video, but I swear I saw with my own eyes how Wang Liping moves his liver. I was standing a foot away.

 

I can't move my liver, and I can't move my onions, but I can move my liver away from my onions.

[Taomeow]

I wish there was a video of someone doing that because I can't imagine how moving an internal organ is seen from the outside.

 

I can only describe what I've seen. By the way, it wasn't done to impress, it was education -- one of the practices we were taught at the seminar is aimed at gaining control over your internal organs, and someone asked about the extent of this control physically -- is it just qi that moves or are we actually gaining control over "gross matter?" (As an aside, I always find it funny when people talk about qi this and qi that moving this or that orbit, but ask them to fan out their toes and they can't do that! As a French philosopher put it, "man creates gods by the thousand but hasn't yet succeeded in creating a worm." The gross material level is the litmus test of whether one is really moving one's qi in the body or "on the street in his mind," another one of my favorite quotes.)

 

What it looked like was, WLP lifted his shirt, pointed to where the liver is, bulged it out, pulled it back in, bulged it out -- well, from the outside, you're just looking at something you have never seen a human body do in your entire life, that's what it looks like -- and then he lifted it up almost to the armpit and then dropped it down, and then asked a student to punch him in the liver, hard. The student punched, hit the spot but there was no liver in that spot by the time the punch landed, the liver was lifted up from under the blow. It was shown as an efficient internal organs protection technique in MA. Needless to say it was mind-blowing.

[Taomeow]

I can't move my liver, and I can't move my onions, but I can move my liver away from my onions.

 

Just because you can doesn't mean you should... who needs liver without onions?

[Pero]

I can only describe what I've seen. By the way, it wasn't done to impress, it was education -- one of the practices we were taught at the seminar is aimed at gaining control over your internal organs, and someone asked about the extent of this control physically -- is it just qi that moves or are we actually gaining control over "gross matter?" (As an aside, I always find it funny when people talk about qi this and qi that moving this or that orbit, but ask them to fan out their toes and they can't do that! As a French philosopher put it, "man creates gods by the thousand but hasn't yet succeeded in creating a worm." The gross material level is the litmus test of whether one is really moving one's qi in the body or "on the street in his mind," another one of my favorite quotes.)

 

What it looked like was, WLP lifted his shirt, pointed to where the liver is, bulged it out, pulled it back in, bulged it out -- well, from the outside, you're just looking at something you have never seen a human body do in your entire life, that's what it looks like -- and then he lifted it up almost to the armpit and then dropped it down, and then asked a student to punch him in the liver, hard. The student punched, hit the spot but there was no liver in that spot by the time the punch landed, the liver was lifted up from under the blow. It was shown as an efficient internal organs protection technique in MA. Needless to say it was mind-blowing.

 

Damn, sounds amazing. What is the purpose of this kind of organ control though?

[Taomeow]

Damn, sounds amazing. What is the purpose of this kind of organ control though?

 

According to WLP, normalcy. He asserts that this is the normal state of the natural human body to be aware and in control of the internal organs. In a modern human body, however, due to all the long-term abnormalities of upbringing and environment, these organs are sort of lumped together, stuck in an undifferentiated "porridge" as he put it, and the goal of the practice is to "unglue" them and restore one's freedom of perception and function.

[Pero]

According to WLP, normalcy. He asserts that this is the normal state of the natural human body to be aware and in control of the internal organs. In a modern human body, however, due to all the long-term abnormalities of upbringing and environment, these organs are sort of lumped together, stuck in an undifferentiated "porridge" as he put it, and the goal of the practice is to "unglue" them and restore one's freedom of perception and function.

 

Interesting, I think I haven't heard something like that since the first time I learned a healing sounds (not the 6) practice. I've completely forgotten about it.

Oh and thanks for the interesting description!

[kathyli]

Interesting, I think I haven't heard something like that since the first time I learned a healing sounds (not the 6) practice. I've completely forgotten about it.

Oh and thanks for the interesting description!

 

 

 

I spoke with Master Wang about the discussions here in Taobums. The practice for training the organs was named "MAO-YOU ZHOU-TIAN (卯酉周天)" or "5 element massage". Lao Zi Academy retreat (http://retreat.dao-de.org) taught this practice.

[Maddie]

I don't know how I missed this thread cause working on the organs is one of my main practices :-)!!! I mainly do inner smile and healing sounds. I get really good results from this ;-).