Fasting

[Tux]

I severely sprained my ankle a little over three years ago, hobbled around for a year as it eventually healed up enough for me to run around again, and resprained it, at which point I was so emotionally and mentally disturbed for other reasons that I could not delay my planned trip to Europe for any reason, and spent three very difficult and painful months there. I came back from that trip about two years ago, with my entire foot all screwed up, and since then I have pursued treatment through physical therapy, feldenkrais, yoga, tai che, etc etc. I see now (thanks in part to magic mushrooms), that the reason I never succeeded with any of these things is because I never had the patience, willpower, focus, that sort of thing, to lay off my crazy lifestyle of self-abuse and fully devote my life to the task of healing for a while.

 

So that's what I'm ready to do! I suppose I'm so physically incapacitated now that I have no choice. In my search for recovery I've come across the idea of fasting. I found that laying off food all day yesterday felt pretty good (I had a ton of mental energy even with only six hours of sleep the night before), and had a dim new perspective on just how addicted to unnecessary eating I am. I see restriction of food intake as an important step in creating that level-headedness that will allow me to get the proper rest and engage in the proper exercises to get myself active again.

 

I am afraid that I have done some severe (permanent?) damage to my ankle and/or entire foot. My biomechanics are all wrong most of the time, and I can feel grinding, popping and pain in joints all over my body as a result of forcing through this for the past few years. I've become interested in fasting because of the huge benefits some folks have received from doing it, and the theory that by giving the body a period of concentrated physiological rest, it will repair itself. The act of prolonged fasting seems to me to be half physical and half mental. I would take up a steady practice of meditation to keep my intentions correct during the fast.

 

However! I'm pretty jacked up right now physically, and have some responsibilities that will not allow me to undertake something so drastic, so I'm not going to just jump into it. I'm also worried, and this is important, that the misalignments I've created in my body need to be corrected to the point that I can at least walk comfortably and smoothly, with a balanced and non-destructive gait. I guess I just mean to say correctly. I wouldn't be doing anything physically demanding during a period of prolonged fasting, and since the intention would be for my body to eat up and dispel the useless stuff and rebuild the stuff I need, I am worried that with bad alignment my joints would rebuild themselves (even more so than they have already) in the wrong way.

 

So my plan is to begin experimenting with fasting, trying a water fast every other day, or a two or three day long water fast once a week, while practicing tai chi and meditation. I don't plan on doing any barefoot running anytime soon, but once I've recovered a functional--dare I say graceful? --gait, and can at least take care of myself in the throes of a prolonged water fast, I will move on to this step. I've heard that a good beginning point for a water fast is one day for every year you have lived, which would put me at a 23 day fast, which doesn't seem too bad. I red an account of a woman who embarked on a 56 day fast, during which she became skeletal and her breasts dissapeared. I have almost no experience in any of these three practices, and fasting has an obvious potential for being dangerous, which is why I'm posting this for some information and advice.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Tux

[simply puzzled]

Please, please see a doctor before doing any T'ai Chi. T'ai Chi requires each ankle to be able to support at least 70% of your body weight, and your ankle might not yet be up to the task. Continually asking it to perform might significantly impair your progress.

 

Moreover, if your ankle isn't healed, you might develop very sloppy technique, such as bad weight shifts, to compensate. That sloppy technique will be much harder to unlearn than coming back from an extended period with no practice. If you do receive the approval of a doctor and continue practicing, make sure you are practicing under a good instructor who can correct such issues as s/he sees them arise.

 

And while you are at the doctor, ask them about fasting. They can perform tests to advise you of any issues that might arise, supplements that will be needed, etc.

[Birch]

Fasting. Not convinced it will help you repair structural damage, sounds counterintuitive to me.

 

How about some decent physiotherapy (go see a sports doc)? Maybe while you're interested, you can kick off (um sorry for the bad joke) some qigong to get a feel for it?

 

Healing oneself is a good goal. Just don't harm yourself in the process. TLC is right

 

Welcome to TTB

[LBDaoist]

I'm dealing with my own injuries right now, so hopefully I can offer you some helpful guidance. Make sure that your body is getting all of the nutrients that it needs to rebuild itself. I would do the opposite of fasting right now actually. Take a good, plant based multi-vitamin. Get some good amino acids. Glucosamine, MSM and chondrotine are great for joints. There is a mental component to having a good and healthy diet, supplemented with specific nutrients and supplements. Your mind gets to acknowledge that you are consiously consuming substances that are beneficial for it.

 

On the subject of fasting, perhaps you can start by removing any liquids besides water from your diet. Water helps your body cleanse itself. If you have an injury, your body needs to remove all of the dead blood cells and other waste. Make sure that you are consciously helping that process.

[Ryan T.]

I see now (thanks in part to magic mushrooms), that the reason I never succeeded with any of these things is because I never had the patience, willpower, focus, that sort of thing, to lay off my crazy lifestyle of self-abuse and fully devote my life to the task of healing for a while.

 

Any reactions to my thoughts on fasting and the ability of the body to repair virtually anything (given my age) are appreciated.

 

Doing too much "good" for yourself can sometimes be just as crazy as a lifestyle of doing too much "bad".

 

I might suggest that you relinquish as much of your crazy lifestyle as you can and slowly(gradually) ease into your fasting and new exercises. I think you will find a great deal more success.

 

Don't trade one crazy for another. Good luck.

[suninmyeyes]

Hi Tux,

Ive healed an injury (close to death)+ organ damage becouse of it.Body is incredible,it can repair itself much more than what is commonly accepted.

 

I think mostly fruit diet helped me heal(and here im not suggesting you should try it as this is not for everyone unless you are attracted to it)and meditations.

What I do reccomend is lots of medical chi kung and maybe a good acupuncturist and /or a healer that is proven to know what theyre doing.

Good luck!

[Birch]

[quote name='Ryan T.' date='06 October 2010 - 08:24 PM' timestamp='1286421844' post='216337'

 

Don't trade one crazy for another. Good luck.

 

 

What he said.

[Birch]

"Don't trade one crazy for another. Good luck."

 

 

What he said.

 

 

Edited for messing up the quote code syntax. silly

Edited October 7, 2010 by Kate

[Mattimo]

I don't recommend fasting for your intended purpose. Moreover, you seem to be desperate to find a solution which may contribute to a general feeling of anxiety. This could be your greatest obstacle in affecting change within your body. Step out of the way, let go and let your body do the rest. That being said, making sure you are receiving proper nutrition would also be beneficial. Lot's of healthy oils and fats from fish, chicken/lamb/beef liver, bone broth soups, etc wouldn't be a bad idea. I would also highly recommend re investigating the Feldenkrais Method in order to do a few basic "exercises" daily, weekly, or whenever you feel like it. Remember it's the principal of slow conscious movement which is important, not some other form of magic contained within the lesson. The only other thing I can recommend is to read up on SCENAR therapy. PM me if you have any questions regarding it.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Mattimo

[King Kabalabhati]

I decided this morning to fast for 24 hours with plain water. I told my body there would be no food. It's taking it quite well so far.

 

The purpose of my fasting is to burn some toxins, clear up the system and to have an enhanced morning meditation tomorrow I do want to slowly improve my relationship to eating altogether, I tend towards "eating for entertainment".

 

This is my first water fast, just going to see how this one day goes and maybe later do 2 days.

 

I'm listening to Chunyi Lin chanting the Heart Sutra. Powerful vibration, goes well with fasting/anything..

[thelerner]

I echo what others have said.

 

When you wrote "I've heard that a good beginning point for a water fast is one day for every year you have lived, which would put me at a 23 day fast, which doesn't seem too bad."

 

That could cripple you. Even water fasting every other day is very extreme. A practice built up slowly over time creates a strong foundation and makes you stronger. Rushing to extremes will burn you out mentally, physically and spiritually.

 

Start way way way slower and get some proper advice from a responsible source. For what its worth I've done some fasting through Daniel Reids Book The Tao of Health, Sex and Longevity. Its not something to be taken lightly, there are potential dangers even to a short fast. Do your research from a couple of sources.

 

 

Michael

[King Kabalabhati]

Well my morning meditation didn't "enhance" by fasting, no I was in fact too sleepy to stay aware. I also felt colder than usual. It might be I have to fast for 2 or more days to get benefits, but I intend to train with a few 24 hrs fasts more and then maybe a longer one in the spring.

[三江源]

I got a ripped ligament in the sole of my foot some years ago. When it happened it was like I was shot in the foot, I just fell down. The ankle got screwed up also, so the whole thing swelled phenomenally and turned ominous colours! It just took sooooooo long to not be swollen and painful, and it changed my foot and ankle into a different, damaged, less mobile set up. The pain deep in my foot didnt go away untill I met a powerful healer who did a total chi infusion job on me and the foot healed as part of that. Deep damage needs deep healing.

 

Something I am very aware of is that when I am in pain/physically damaged, my thinking function goes AWOL. So for me it isnt a time I could make decisions of much merit.

 

So from my point of view, I'd go to a healer first, get balanced, and then once I am harmonious again, make some decisions about what to do in other areas of my life, like eating or not..

 

A damaged foot throws the body out of alignment to compensate, and in my experience, the mind follows suit. There is no division between body and mind.

 

If you are getting a strong instinct for 'less' which your mind is responding to with the suggestion 'Fasting!'.. maybe consider what the 'less' urge could mean, in a 'less' way. ie in a less extreme way... because 'less' might be a helpful urge. But is it 'extreme less', or is that your habit of mind amping up the volume?

[C T]

I got a ripped ligament in the sole of my foot some years ago. When it happened it was like I was shot in the foot, I just fell down. The ankle got screwed up also, so the whole thing swelled phenomenally and turned ominous colours! It just took sooooooo long to not be swollen and painful, and it changed my foot and ankle into a different, damaged, less mobile set up. The pain deep in my foot didnt go away untill I met a powerful healer who did a total chi infusion job on me and the foot healed as part of that. Deep damage needs deep healing.

 

Something I am very aware of is that when I am in pain/physically damaged, my thinking function goes AWOL. So for me it isnt a time I could make decisions of much merit.

 

So from my point of view, I'd go to a healer first, get balanced, and then once I am harmonious again, make some decisions about what to do in other areas of my life, like eating or not..

 

A damaged foot throws the body out of alignment to compensate, and in my experience, the mind follows suit. There is no division between body and mind.

 

 

A few years ago, two days before a very crucial badminton tournament, i sprained an ankle terribly during a practice session. Thought that was the end of any hope of participation in the tourney.

 

Headed straight to see an Acupuncturist. She gave me two sessions over the two days. I did some healing on it on my own to complement the treatment, and on the morning of the match, the swelling had subsided totally and it felt normal again enough to allow participation that evening. Did not even require ankle support nor painkillers. Went on to win the game too.

 

 

 

You mentioned that there is no division between body and mind.

This made me recall an account of a lama who was in hospital for cancer. It was pretty severe, and he was on the verge of dying already. His body was almost completely overcome by the disease, so he told the doctors he did not wish for drugs to be administered anymore. Most days he was too weak to walk around, so he just stayed on the bed and did his chanting and meditation. All the staff were quite amazed at how serene he was at all times. They said it was like he had this glow around his head, even though his physical body was almost totally crippled.

 

Some days when he felt a little strong, he would get out of his room and with a big grin, walked around the hospital ward, unaided, chatting with anyone who passes, telling naughty jokes to the nurses, made everyone laughed, and then he would visit the other patients in the ward, and ever so gently and filled with warmth, would whisper words of encouragement and love to them. He kept this up till the day he passed away. I was told that not once did he succumb to the immense pain, and on top of that, he was completely without any mental angst of any sort. I believe he was able to separate his mind from his body, and to a great degree too, .

Edited October 10, 2010 by CowTao

[三江源]

CowTao, that isnt a big division between mind and body in that guy, it's Mastery, which is much, much, more of a deep harmonising than separation.

 

Ken Cohen said that according to his X Rays there is no way he could have mobility, he 'should' be in a wheelchair.

 

I have sprained my ankles a lotta times too , I know the pain and duration of sprains varies enormously, and acupuncture is fab, as is EFT, and frozen peas...

[C T]

CowTao, that isnt a big division between mind and body in that guy, it's Mastery, which is much, much, more of a deep harmonising than separation.

 

Ken Cohen said that according to his X Rays there is no way he could have mobility, he 'should' be in a wheelchair.

 

I have sprained my ankles a lotta times too , I know the pain and duration of sprains varies enormously, and acupuncture is fab, as is EFT, and frozen peas...

Hi Cat...

 

I hope you did not take offense to my post. It was not meant to lessen the impact of(disempower?) what you had shared. Apologies if it was read that way.

 

Of course we agree that it was indeed highest-level mastery. You alluded to harmony, while i was implying that one at his level was able to let go of the deepest attachments, seen thru the empty nature of mind, and was also immensely proficient in compartmentalizing all that was going on around him. He saw everything just the way they were, each day, each event, each pain, each interaction, each moment... unfolding, with gaps in between each, and was able to access these very subtle, profound spaces at will, and seek rest therein. Its that kind of separation that i was pointing to - Not that he was in any way dis-integrated. So yes, harmony is one way of saying it, i suppose.

Edited October 10, 2010 by CowTao

[Tux]

Thanks for all your responses--the thing is, I have absolutely no money so my options for treatment are very limited. I consider it a challenge in learning how to take care of myself. I've been reading up on fasting from several sources since I posted this originally, and have learned quite a bit of theory as far as my approach to diet and what I should expect during the healing process that I'm going to be experiencing soon.

 

What I've come up with is: Give myself a few months of abstaining from overindulging in anything. Spend the next few months eating a very healthy diet, lots of raw fruit and vegetables. This builds up your body's store of minerals and other things it needs for healing, which, during an extended fast, becomes its priority, as there's no effort spent on digestion. Plus you become very tired and sedentary, which forces you to rest and go with it. The past few days I've been eating pretty sparingly, every couple of hours I'll have a small meal, and I don't necessarily eat just because I'm hungry. I have some weight to lose and I'm not very active, so this is OK.

 

I already feel a lot better! I've been tuning in to my need for rest and relaxation. I've had a weakness for eating for years, and with the decision to just do this and get back to normal life, food no longer presents a problem. My problem is coffee and whiskey--those are definitely the reason for me not being able to chill and heal during my initial year of injury.

 

Still, the structural weirdness is significant. The physical imbalances in my body are gnarly, even if they don't hurt all the time. Whenever I move around a lot over the course of a day, I feel those imbalances. I need some form of chi kung that will bring me back into proper physical alignment. I really don't think this will take much now that I know what I want and need to do. Any recommendations on forms of chi kung that would be good for bringing everything back into alignment? I want to be able to hike and run and surf again.

 

My real concerns with fasting are getting the proper nutrients in my body in preparation of the fast and what are signs of dangerous deficiencies during the fast. Vitamin B12 is one I'm concerned with, but I also picked up somewhere that deficient levels of B12 before a fast returned to normal levels during the fast, fairly inexplicably. I think the body really knows what it's doing, if you let it do its thing. I've got good genes and good intuition as long as I stay away from doing self-destructive amounts of drugs.

 

I must emphasize that I really have no money, I do have a meeting with a doctor for disability in a few days but I'm not getting my hopes up. I need to do all this myself, or find people that will help me for free.

 

I've only read the section on fasting so far, but this book seems legit.

http://chestofbooks.com/health/Isabelle-A-Moser/How-and-When-to-Be-Your-Own-Doctor/index.html

[The Observer]

A question of my own: Would timing a 3 day fast for the full moon days once a month be effective for my sitting meditation practice? Also I've been fasting once a week regularly for almost a year.

[Tux]

A question of my own: Would timing a 3 day fast for the full moon days once a month be effective for my sitting meditation practice? Also I've been fasting once a week regularly for almost a year.

 

If you suspect it would be, then it probably would be. The moon effects me hugely.

[三江源]

Hi Cat...

 

I hope you did not take offense to my post. It was not meant to lessen the impact of(disempower?) what you had shared. Apologies if it was read that way.

 

Of course we agree that it was indeed highest-level mastery. You alluded to harmony, while i was implying that one at his level was able to let go of the deepest attachments, seen thru the empty nature of mind, and was also immensely proficient in compartmentalizing all that was going on around him. He saw everything just the way they were, each day, each event, each pain, each interaction, each moment... unfolding, with gaps in between each, and was able to access these very subtle, profound spaces at will, and seek rest therein. Its that kind of separation that i was pointing to - Not that he was in any way dis-integrated. So yes, harmony is one way of saying it, i suppose.

 

No, CowTao, no need for apology at all. You call it separation (in this instance at least), I see it as deep integration, deepest harmony, oneness, to me it means no separation. Taoists like to go into the body very deeply. It is Ken Cohen's deep relationship with his body that allows him to maintain harmony of body-mind despite bones turning to dust in his body. It is also his deep relationship with the big dipper etc, because he knows his body is one with the cosmos and that wider reality is felt profoundly. His connections are so wide and deep that he has no need of separation. This is just an example of a Taoist way of looking at it. It is very beautiful and wonderful to me. The difference is terminology we use just reflects our areas of interest and practice, and is not the slightest cause for offence. Taoists dont focus on letting go of atachments, they focus on building up oneness with the cosmos, and our planet,and their own macrocosm. The attachment issue deals with itself, with no need of focus, as a side effect.

 

Perhaps not quite on topic, sorry Tux.

[Mattimo]

Maybe you can start a fund, saving up a few dollars here and there, until finally, you can get a few treatments from a powerful energy/TCM healer. In the meantime, good luck to you in staying healthy.

 

Look in the yellow pages under "powerful healer" if you need to make any appointments. Pardon the cynicism but in my opinion you are far better off investing the money in reading material or healthier food than going to a so-called healer.

[thelerner]

For what its worth I just put a list of Healing Guided meditations in the Healing Circle section.

 

 

Michael

[BigCojones]

You are more or less in the same predicament that I am in, except it's my knee...

 

You may want to reconsider the fast and think about a "Mono-Diet".

 

Fasting is a powerful tool for healing and strenghtening the body. However you should never go on a fast indiscriminately, because you can do more harm than good. It is always best to be supervised by a health practitioner.

It is safer and more effective to go on a mono diet of those foods that posses the healing properties which the body needs, than to eliminate all food or just fast on water.

 

That's from the KY TT manual.

 

One of my KY teachers adviced me to take up this banana diet which rebuilds torn tissue and removes drug deposits... (considering my knee he said.) Which would seem to be a good pick for you as well. Considering our similar predicaments.

 

No expert here, would be my first go on a fast as well... And will be getting tips from the teacher when I start it on next months full moon.

 

I can write the diet here:

 

Banana Fast

Only for people who have experience with fasting

>Rebuilds worn tissue, removes drug deposits from the medulla.

>Once a year in spring, when new blood is being produced. Begin on New Moon.

>9 bananas a day (inc. strings) for 15 days:

Breakfast: 1 cup fresh orange juice sweetened with honey. One hour later: 3 bananas, cardamom.

Lunch: 3 bananas, cardamom.

Dinner: 3 bananas, cardamom.

Yogi tea is okay with this diet.

>Breaking the fast: lemon juice in warm water with honey. To rebuild the body, follow up with 28 days of mung beans and rice, fruit and yogi tea. No dairy (except a little bit of milk on your Yogi Tea.)

>The honey lemon water is taken for a day between the bananas and the mung beans and rice.

 

Mung beans & rice diet

>A good cleansing diet that gives plenty of nourishment.

>Good for the kidneys, colon, and digestive organs, or when food is not being digested thoroughly by the intestines.

>Good winter diet.

>Eat only mung beans and rice for 30 days. Include lots of fresh vegetables cooked into it.

>May eat fruit in etween meals as snack. Yogi Tea may also be taken.

 

This diet should be in your price range. You can't get any cheaper than this. Great for your broke ass!

 

You can do Half the diet, which was recommended for me... (7 days bananas, half day off, 14 days of beans and rice...)

 

I have the books recipes for Yogi tea and the mung beans & rice cooked with vegetables if youd like them aswell. But you get the picture.

 

...................

 

 

I got that same thing with the body being fragile as shit as well. And alignments being poor...

 

Problem is insufficient CHI in the "etheric body". Your "inner structure" is fucked up which makes the body "empty" and sloppy. Also because it's the ankle and trauma there (legs) is cutting up much of the chi that would going up and down the leg normally. Which is a factor you havent been that grounded and "physically aware" for some time now. So grounding and getting chi trough the ankle (slowly and safely) should be your main focuses energetically. All chi gung does this and develop inner structure, You should do some standing in the basic chi gung stance (wuji stance) which is most neutral and therefore most relevant for overall healing (static standing practices lso develop inner structure the fastest) but what comes to mind is B.K. Frantzis's "Dragon & tiger medical chi gung". I think he has some material out already conserning only that practice. But what you can also get is "The CHI revolution" which has the practices I thought would be for you from D&T (Includes moving the ankles) and it shows the basic stance I was talking about.... It also works the acupuncture meridians people are so certain about in this thread.

 

You might also run your hands over your legs at the end of any chi gung session. Don't know how to describe it in any better words.

 

Meditation should be breath based. Plenty of breathing (outside of meditaion too) as it cleans, brings chi and connects you to the body. Making it easier to find the energetic trauma in the ankle and elsewhere in the body.

 

You might also want to look up on some good reiki guy and tell him to focus on the ankle and first chakra.

 

The major healing will happen beyond the physical in your chi so the diet isn't going to be the "cure". it will help. But healing the actual trauma should be your end goal in the long term. And feeling the trauma will be somewhat painful. But you will recognize it as being energetic. Be easy on your ankle.

 

TAKE THE MONO DIET INSTEAD OF THE FAST MOFO. IT TOOK EFFORT TO WRITE THIS.

Edited October 12, 2010 by BigCojones