The Light on Vedanta

[goldisheavy]

This person seems knowledgeable, but in all honesty, I never liked any commentaries. In almost every single case I found the commentary to not just be useless, but to actually deviate and distort the meaning and the intent of the text they comment on. I prefer to read the original text and see where it takes me.

 

A lot of the problems in our world come from the fact that people rely on the commentaries, interpretations, additions and so on.

 

If you are really a sage, don't comment. Just write the best of your own vision in a way that's as difficult as possible to misinterpret as you can make it. If you limit yourself only to a commentary, it's obvious you don't consider yourself very good, and neither should I.

[3bob]

Is the link still active? It's not really my sort of area but anyone who uses an Osho quote is worth checking out but I'm having trouble even reaching http://www.medhajournal.com/

 

(could just be related to local computer issues I am experiencing today)

 

 

Right Mal, Osho's girlfriend and companion Vivek killed herself back then...

Edited October 12, 2010 by 3bob

[Machin Shin]

...what is your Adhikara?

 

Adhichitta higher mind

Adhi=higher

 

Kara=???

 

could you break apart the two syllables?

 

Ka means etc etc

ra means etc. etc.

so Kara is such and such

 

 

If I could find the library in the city of Brahma that contains a palace and the sun and moons travel the firmaments in their ways and the wind blows the banners of victory I would do the translation myself. At take this translation to the precious general and precious minister of the Victorious King of this city of Brahman. And outside of the court of the victorious king there are mighty chariots of the air and mighty elephants of work.

On the day that this translation would be spoken to the Victorious King many beings of this Brahman realm would gather and hear the proclamation of the Dharma that was well spoken. There would be Maharajas, Kimnaras, Asuras and Devas. The Garudas would fill the air as well as dragons of all colors from the various clans of Qi mastery. And such is the Peace of the Dharma that is well spoken by a Victorious King of Brahma that even the Nagakings of the water realms would attend the assembly and not attack their natural enemies the Garuda.

 

If only some one could translate these words....

[dwai]

This person seems knowledgeable, but in all honesty, I never liked any commentaries. In almost every single case I found the commentary to not just be useless, but to actually deviate and distort the meaning and the intent of the text they comment on. I prefer to read the original text and see where it takes me.

 

A lot of the problems in our world come from the fact that people rely on the commentaries, interpretations, additions and so on.

 

If you are really a sage, don't comment. Just write the best of your own vision in a way that's as difficult as possible to misinterpret as you can make it. If you limit yourself only to a commentary, it's obvious you don't consider yourself very good, and neither should I.

 

Well in most cases, commentaries make sense of aphorisms (or Sutras)...given their concise (and sometimes terse nature). The traditional system of learning was oral/aural and not written. So, when a student (Shishya) learned from his teacher (Guru), he/she would learn orally. The teacher would teach a bunch of verses and then explain in great detail and/or provide the technique to experience what the verses tried to convey.

 

The Upanishads are to a certain extent Q&A type teaching tools. Even these tools require knowledge of darshana...so commentators provide context and perspective into these teachings. If you can read Sanskrit, all power to you. Even for someone (myself for eg), who has formally learned Sanskrit, reading the texts and learning is a laborious process. So, while it's good to read the original text, it is often necessary to read commentaries by people with qualifications and authority (Adhikara) on the said subject.

[Mal]

Right Mal, Osho's girlfriend and companion Vivek killed herself back then...

 

3bob, While I am sad to hear that, you are refering to stuff that happened as much as 30 yrs ago in another country. eg. I had just finished highschool when Vivek died and I wasn't even introduced to Osho's writing till more than 10 years later.

 

I don't pay attention to what his current followers are up to. I like reading Osho's words, I enjoy his books & I am friends with someone who was involved with him back then. That is the basis for my opinion and your opinion will not change mine. I do realise Osho is a controversial figure, thanks.

 

p.s. still can't access medhajournal.com will try from home

[3bob]

3bob, While I am sad to hear that, you are refering to stuff that happened as much as 30 yrs ago in another country. eg. I had just finished highschool when Vivek died and I wasn't even introduced to Osho's writing till more than 10 years later.

 

I don't pay attention to what his current followers are up to. I like reading Osho's words, I enjoy his books & I am friends with someone who was involved with him back then. That is the basis for my opinion and your opinion will not change mine. I do realise Osho is a controversial figure, thanks.

 

p.s. still can't access medhajournal.com will try from home

 

Whether 30 seconds or 30 years ago various crimes were committed in Oregon and else-where, (and revealed through eye-witness accounts) and if such dosn't figure into the basis of your opinions then that just makes everything hunky-dorie. (the term, "controversial figure" is nothing more than a gloss job imo)

Edited October 13, 2010 by 3bob

[Mal]

[3bob]

[Mal]

3bob and that all boils down to IYO which is different to my IMO. ie. YMMV

[3bob]

Om Shanti

 

[Mal]

_/\_

 

 

 

 

[dwai]

It's not so much any institution that may be co-opting along afterwards, it is Osho the founder; who btw has no association to Vedanta, Sat Guru, Lord Nataraja and or Siva related teachings, Lord Vishnu and or Krishna related teachings, or the other sects of Hinduism, etc..., thus imo an insult is being given by associating his name in any way with same through a site supposedly or trying to relate to Sanatana Dharma! Further, such should be plainly visble to anyone who has looked at Osho's teachings, with an example given below in his own words:

 

"All the religions believe that God created the world and also mankind. But if you are created by someone, you are only a puppet, you don't have your own soul. And if you are created by somebody, he can uncreate you any moment. He neither asked you whether you wanted to be created, nor is he going to ask you: "Do you want to be uncreated?"

 

God is the greatest dictator, if you accept the fiction that he created the world and also created mankind. If God is a reality, then man is a slave, a puppet. All the strings are in his hands, even your life. Then there is no question of any enlightenment. Then there is no question of there being any Gautam the Buddha, because there is no freedom at all. He pulls the strings, you dance; he pulls the strings, you cry; he pulls the strings, you start murders, suicide, war. You are just a puppet and he is the puppeteer.

 

Then there is no question of sin or virtue, no question of sinners and saints. Nothing is good and nothing is bad, because you are only a puppet. A puppet cannot be responsible for its actions. Responsibility belongs to someone who has the freedom to act. Either God can exist or freedom, both cannot exist together..."

by Osho

 

Twisted half-truths, which may be the whole truth to some, can be seductive. Bob

 

One of the most remarkable and significant aspect of Sanatana Dharma is an "Open Mind" and a "Open Heart". It shows a lot about an individual who takes up a cudgel just because one quote from an author he/she considers "unworthy" of Sanatana Dharma is used in an article.

 

I am sure if you contacted the author, he would give you a sound response to your objections (or maybe not). It doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things, since Sri TNS is doing this in the spirit of service (Seva), to help bring the Bhagavad Gita to those who haven't had the good fortune of learning it...

 

3Bob...you have freedom to view your opinions, but you don't have the adhikara, imho. If you have the ability to improve on Sri TNS' thesis, please do so and DO SHARE. Otherwise your protestations come across as "hot air", devoid of substance.

[3bob]

One of the most remarkable and significant aspect of Sanatana Dharma is an "Open Mind" and a "Open Heart". It shows a lot about an individual who takes up a cudgel just because one quote from an author he/she considers "unworthy" of Sanatana Dharma is used in an article.

 

I am sure if you contacted the author, he would give you a sound response to your objections (or maybe not). It doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things, since Sri TNS is doing this in the spirit of service (Seva), to help bring the Bhagavad Gita to those who haven't had the good fortune of learning it...

 

3Bob...you have freedom to view your opinions, but you don't have the adhikara, imho. If you have the ability to improve on Sri TNS' thesis, please do so and DO SHARE. Otherwise your protestations come across as "hot air", devoid of substance.

 

Actually some of the most remarkable aspects (among others) about Sanatana Dharma is the practice of yama and niyama, which Osho was against lock, stock and barrel as demonstrated by his actions and the mislead actions of many of his students (via eyewitness documentation). If you are comfortable being "so opened minded that your brains are falling out" that is your business but please don't spout on about or imply any "traditional" qualifications on your part. Btw, I have not been talking about Sri TNS and I don't know if it was him, you or some other mislead person who included the Osho quote? -Please do remove such insults to the wonderful, vast and profound religious traditions and culture of what is often called "Hinduism", otherwise you come across as mislead and also misleading.

 

Om

Edited October 14, 2010 by 3bob

[C T]

Haven't we all assumed the role of sentinels and protectors of that which we believe is beyond reproach, not realizing sometimes that such closed-fisted attitudes are not only counter to those sublime truths that underlie the Belief, but goes further, in fact, to serve as a measure to hasten one's own contraction. As Richard Bach says, "Argue for limitations, and sure enough they become your property". (paraphrased)

 

 

(I think Dwai has done some a great service by hoisting this thread up. Thumbs up.)

[3bob]

Haven't we all assumed the role of sentinels and protectors of that which we believe is beyond reproach, not realizing sometimes that such closed-fisted attitudes are not only counter to those sublime truths that underlie the Belief, but goes further, in fact, to serve as a measure to hasten one's own contraction. As Richard Bach says, "Argue for limitations, and sure enough they become your property". (paraphrased)

 

(I think Dwai has done some a great service by hoisting this thread up. Thumbs up.)

 

When making asumptions that are not based on any facts, (aka documented eye witness accounts) not on direct experiences beyond beliefs, and not considering both recent and thousands of years of history and historic accounts... then yes one could be hanging in the wind so to speak. But in this case your generic generalizations and implied advice to me are not really in context CowTao, since I am drawing upon such resources.

 

Om

[C T]

When making asumptions that are not based on any facts, (aka documented eye witness accounts) not on direct experiences beyond beliefs, and not considering both recent and thousands of years of history and historic accounts... then yes one could be hanging in the wind so to speak. But in this case your generic generalizations and implied advice to me are not really in context CowTao, since I am drawing upon such resources.

 

Om

Actually you are mistaken here, 3Bob.. i would not be so bold as to attempt to advise anyone but to merely counsel my own poor soul and prop up this dulled and fixated mind so as to remind myself that it pays to be more malleable in terms of conduct - both physical and mental, in the hope that such flexibility would allow for growth of a bigger spiritual heart, is all.

[dwai]

Actually some of the most remarkable aspects (among others) about Sanatana Dharma is the practice of yama and niyama, which Osho was against lock, stock and barrel as demonstrated by his actions and the mislead actions of many of his students (via eyewitness documentation). If you are comfortable being "so opened minded that your brains are falling out" that is your business but please don't spout on about or imply any "traditional" qualifications on your part. Btw, I have not been talking about Sri TNS and I don't know if it was him, you or some other mislead person who included the Osho quote? -Please do remove such insults to the wonderful, vast and profound religious traditions and culture of what is often called "Hinduism", otherwise you come across as mislead and also misleading.

 

Om

 

Vamachara often times flies in the face of convention and encourages the sadhaka to do things that seem outrageous or beyond yama and niyama. It is the maturity of the Sadhaka to not fall into the trap of indulgence. I used to feel pretty much the same as you do about Osho, I changed my mind because I realized that I was ascribing certain types of behavior as being typical of the "Wise Master" role...which need not necessarily be so. There are plenty of examples of Left-hand Tantriks who have defied every convention and rule that societies in general find acceptable.

 

Like I pointed out, beside that one quote, Osho has nothing to do with the actual article itself. I don't have to spout or imply any traditional qualifications on my part. I was only questioning yours...given your bombastic eruptions and indignant outcries. I don't see any reason to remove the Osho quote, just because you find it offensive. There are many others who can look beyond the superficial and actually gleam some value out of an enterprise such that Sri TNS has undertaken.

[Mal]

dwai, while off topic I hope our little Osho debate is a least promoting your link for others

 

I even had a read of the linked article last night (I still can't access it from work for some reason)

[3bob]

Vamachara often times flies in the face of convention and encourages the sadhaka to do things that seem outrageous or beyond yama and niyama. It is the maturity of the Sadhaka to not fall into the trap of indulgence. I used to feel pretty much the same as you do about Osho, I changed my mind because I realized that I was ascribing certain types of behavior as being typical of the "Wise Master" role...which need not necessarily be so. There are plenty of examples of Left-hand Tantriks who have defied every convention and rule that societies in general find acceptable.

 

Like I pointed out, beside that one quote, Osho has nothing to do with the actual article itself. I don't have to spout or imply any traditional qualifications on my part. I was only questioning yours...given your bombastic eruptions and indignant outcries. I don't see any reason to remove the Osho quote, just because you find it offensive. There are many others who can look beyond the superficial and actually gleam some value out of an enterprise such that Sri TNS has undertaken.

 

"Vamachara" - no wonder you are sometimes coming out of left field since you state or imply support for balck magic methods.

 

Saying "mislead" earlier was an under-statement from me.

 

Om, Jai Ganesha

Edited October 15, 2010 by 3bob

[3bob]

Actually you are mistaken here, 3Bob.. i would not be so bold as to attempt to advise anyone but to merely counsel my own poor soul and prop up this dulled and fixated mind so as to remind myself that it pays to be more malleable in terms of conduct - both physical and mental, in the hope that such flexibility would allow for growth of a bigger spiritual heart, is all.

 

Ok CowTao,

 

But no point in putting yourself down either,

[Vajrahridaya]

"Vamachara" - no wonder you are sometimes coming out of left field since you state or imply support for balck magic methods.

 

Saying "mislead" earlier was an under-statement from me.

 

Om, Jai Ganesha

 

Left handed tantra and black magic are not the same! Black magic is selfish and ego serving... with a totally different philosophical idealization from Vamachara.

[3bob]

another view:

 

Vol.3: The Vedanta in All Its Phases, pp.340-341.

 

"When I see how much the Vamachara [Tantra] has entered our [bengali] society, I find it a most disgraceful place, with all of its boast of culture. These Vamachara sects are honeycombing our society in Bengal. Those who come out in the daytime and preach most loudly about achara, it is they who carry on the horrible debauchery at night and are backed by the most dreadful books. They are ordered by the books to do these things. You who are of Bengal know of it. The Bengal Shastras are the Vamachara Tantras. They are published by the cart-load, and you poison the minds of your children with them instead of teaching them our Shrutis. Fathers of Calcutta, do you not feel ashamed that such horrible stuff as these Vamachara Tantras, with translations too, should be put into the hands of your boys and girls, and their minds poisoned, and that they should be brought up with the idea that these are the Shastras of the Hindus? If you are ashamed, take them away from your children and let them read the true Shastras - the Vedas, the Gita and the Upanishads".

 

from Swami Vivekananda

 

http://www.vivekananda.btinternet.co.uk/veda11.htm

[dwai]

"Vamachara" - no wonder you are sometimes coming out of left field since you state or imply support for balck magic methods.

 

Saying "mislead" earlier was an under-statement from me.

 

Om, Jai Ganesha

 

dude...I don't even want to respond to you. I used to think you were a level-headed person. It turns out that you're no better than the BBs. Since you quote Swami Vivekananda, here's one he used very nicely in the World Parliament of Religions in Chicago 1893

 

'Varied are the tastes and many are the paths to a goal.

Some are righteous, some are crooked.

Yet, all aim to reach the goal,

just like all the rivers lead to the ocean.

Similarly, man traverses to Thee.'

 

 

[dwai]

"Vamachara" - no wonder you are sometimes coming out of left field since you state or imply support for balck magic methods.

 

Saying "mislead" earlier was an under-statement from me.

 

Om, Jai Ganesha

 

dude...I don't even want to respond to you. I used to think you were a level-headed person. It turns out that you're no better than the BBs. Since you quote Swami Vivekananda, here's one he used very nicely in the World Parliament of Religions in Chicago 1893

 

'Varied are the tastes and many are the paths to a goal.

Some are righteous, some are crooked.

Yet, all aim to reach the goal,

just like all the rivers lead to the ocean.

Similarly, man traverses to Thee.'

 

 

[dwai]

<br>Left handed tantra and black magic are not the same!  Black magic is selfish and ego serving...  with a totally different philosophical idealization from Vamachara.<br>

<br><br><br>Millions of blue blistering barnacles! I never thought Vajra and I would agree on something other than disagreement....and now you go and post this!<img src="http://www.thetaobums.com/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif"><div><br><br>

 

<div>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0bGrvKVxac

<br></div>

 

</div>

Edited October 15, 2010 by dwai