Dealing with Feeling

[Sloppy Zhang]

Thanks for the comments so far!

 

But I guess I should also say that "feeling" isn't strictly just to emotions, but also to people being generally around. So like, if I'm stretching my fingers or something, and then someone upstairs slams the door, I'll feel it in my fingers, and then that feeling will linger for a while.

 

Maybe sometimes it's just my heightened awareness of that area. But sometimes, even if I go off and do something crazy, later on in the day my awareness will be dragged to *something* that is in my hand. Something foreign? Something on my own? I dunno.

 

Sometimes a highly emotional/adrenaline/etc situation will clear everything away.... but then something else invariably happens, and I feel like I've got something foreign in me again! And it's not like I want to get addicted to risk taking behavior to get over some problems I've got

[Aetherous]

Tried that. Focus on the breath works. For a while.

 

Then you're like, "ahh, there we are...." and then... the feeling is still there! Well sometimes it's there. And then sometimes it isn't.

 

Sometimes relaxing, and trying to breathe, lets the feeling penetrate even deeper. Maybe it's an egoic thing. Maybe it's a fear. I dunno. But it's highly uncomfortable. It feels quite violating.

 

I think it's just a matter of a lot of practice. Really...a lot. Like almost the whole day, unless you're doing other things.

 

In my own experience, if I practice a lot of breathing in a day, I have this reserve of energy that feels like a sense of peace, which nothing can really penetrate for a while. When I say nothing can penetrate it, I really mean nothing...everything just washes over you.

 

If I don't practice enough, then I'm feeling every little thing and my mind is scattered. In those times it can be challenging to breathe, and will take quite a while to center myself, compared to times when my mind is more still.

 

So I think it just takes a while.

[Sloppy Zhang]

The entire reason why I've started feeling this stuff so often is because my practice is nearly constant. If I was completely numb, I wouldn't be having these issues.

 

But I AM feeling this stuff, because my practices have let me feel this stuff.

 

The thing with breathing/relaxing, is that when I do that, it feels like it lets the sensations penetrate deeper and deeper. Like, if something coming from another person comes my way, it doesn't "wash over me", it comes right at me. And if I just relax, it's like that feeling starts to sink in me further and further and further.

 

It's quite violating and uncomfortable. I'm just wondering, is this something that is natural? Is this just something I'm going to have to deal with? Is it some egoic knee jerk reaction to a loss of boundaries? Is it me going nuts and making all this stuff up?

 

Feeling and relaxing isn't the problem. Feeling and relaxing is what GOT me to this point in the first place!

[hagar]

The entire reason why I've started feeling this stuff so often is because my practice is nearly constant. If I was completely numb, I wouldn't be having these issues.

 

But I AM feeling this stuff, because my practices have let me feel this stuff.

 

The thing with breathing/relaxing, is that when I do that, it feels like it lets the sensations penetrate deeper and deeper. Like, if something coming from another person comes my way, it doesn't "wash over me", it comes right at me. And if I just relax, it's like that feeling starts to sink in me further and further and further.

 

It's quite violating and uncomfortable. I'm just wondering, is this something that is natural? Is this just something I'm going to have to deal with? Is it some egoic knee jerk reaction to a loss of boundaries? Is it me going nuts and making all this stuff up?

 

Feeling and relaxing isn't the problem. Feeling and relaxing is what GOT me to this point in the first place!

 

Sloppy; PM me and I'll reccomend a practice that was given to me by my teacher, that may work well,

 

I second most of what is said here, and as Scotty says,your level of practice will resolve alot. Yet this is not a matter of clocktime, or your intention.

 

I've actually come to similar consequences about my own surroundings myself lately. Before, I thought it was only me, when I felt discomfort in a room. Now I know this discomfort or stress is just out in the ether and it usually has a source. you really cannot shield yourself from this ability, just like a bloodhound cannot stop being one. And its instant, like you say.

 

To take an extreme example, a practitioner friend of mine, a woman, had visions and saw dead people all the time since she was young. She struggled with this in practice, and didn't resolve this until my teacher did something to close her third eye, and the visions stopped. He said he could reopen it when she was ready to deal with it.

 

Increased awareness ignites increased sensitivity. Yet you can roll with it and use it skillfully, so that this awareness becomes your compass. You go where there is more silence, more space, and if that is impossible, you do whatever is necessariy to transform the situation in the present moment. Sometimes the simplest thing is most effective: just becoming the space or create the space within yourself to harbor the feeling of the other person or persons, or tune into the energy of the situation and transform the unresolved source of it.

[Seadoggy]

You can if you choose to be-- a magician, a warrior someone who doesn't fret or worry but something someone strong and wonderous!!!

[Sloppy Zhang]

To take an extreme example, a practitioner friend of mine, a woman, had visions and saw dead people all the time since she was young. She struggled with this in practice, and didn't resolve this until my teacher did something to close her third eye, and the visions stopped. He said he could reopen it when she was ready to deal with it.

 

 

You can if you choose to be-- a magician, a warrior someone who doesn't fret or worry but something someone strong and wonderous!!!

 

It's not like I "don't like this" per se, it's not like I'd want to get rid of it. I mean, this sensitivity is exactly what I've been training for, and now, rather than visualizing or having a strong intent to feel something, I'm actually feeling it AS it happens, which is great.

 

But now that I'm at the step where I'm ACTUALLY feeling, as opposed to having to visualize or just pretend without really feeling it, I need to know what to do next- what do I do with these feelings, how do I interact with them, in a way that won't drive me insane, will allow me to progress even further, but at the same time allow me to feel and work with these feelings/energies in a constructive way should I choose to.

 

So, running with hagar's example, if my third eye has started opening (or some other goings on which is expanding my awareness), that's GREAT (IMHO), I wouldn't want to shut it down, even if it is really annoying and gets in the way. I just remember that this is what I've been working towards, this is what I chose. I just think back to all the hours of practice and all the time spent thinking, "wow, I can't wait to get to that point!" and now I'm at that point, and sure, it's uncomfortable, but I'm happy as hell that I'm here

Edited October 10, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Aetherous]

Another idea...

 

In chapter 3 of the book Healing with Form, Energy and Light, the upward moving prana practices are really good to do.

 

Really good.

[Apech]

It's not like I "don't like this" per se, it's not like I'd want to get rid of it. I mean, this sensitivity is exactly what I've been training for, and now, rather than visualizing or having a strong intent to feel something, I'm actually feeling it AS it happens, which is great.

 

 

 

This is good.

 

I would say that what you are feeling is an inevitable consequence of cultivation and it won't go away. Its a difficult problem I think and while some of it goes back to your own stage of development or spiritual maturity the fact is that the world is full of people who are not cultivators and continually splurge their feelings and neuroses all over everyone else.

 

I think the real reason people become hermits is because at certain times they need the space to work on themselves with out the interference ... this is why Milarepa kept moving to higher caves until he was ready to teach. But that's kind of extreme and he was engaged in a very fast track system.

 

I don't have an off the shelf answer just a few points from my experience. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance - you have to watch the process all the time, observe how it happens, when it is strongest and so on. Track it so you know its routines and spare yourself the worst if your own energy is low. You have to deal with everything as energy (for want of a better word) - feelings of others are just energy no matter what the form - awareness can transform them ... as in 'consciousness is the catalyst' ... i.e. something that facilitates a process without actually taking part. And lastly understand that the ground of a certain way of working is this environment ... its like a terrain which can get to know, understand and negotiate ... through this develop real compassion for others.

 

Hope this makes some kind of sense.

 

[C T]

This is good.

 

I would say that what you are feeling is an inevitable consequence of cultivation and it won't go away. Its a difficult problem I think and while some of it goes back to your own stage of development or spiritual maturity the fact is that the world is full of people who are not cultivators and continually splurge their feelings and neuroses all over everyone else.

 

I think the real reason people become hermits is because at certain times they need the space to work on themselves with out the interference ... this is why Milarepa kept moving to higher caves until he was ready to teach. But that's kind of extreme and he was engaged in a very fast track system.

 

I don't have an off the shelf answer just a few points from my experience. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance - you have to watch the process all the time, observe how it happens, when it is strongest and so on. Track it so you know its routines and spare yourself the worst if your own energy is low. You have to deal with everything as energy (for want of a better word) - feelings of others are just energy no matter what the form - awareness can transform them ... as in 'consciousness is the catalyst' ... i.e. something that facilitates a process without actually taking part. And lastly understand that the ground of a certain way of working is this environment ... its like a terrain which can get to know, understand and negotiate ... through this develop real compassion for others.

 

Hope this makes some kind of sense.

 

Most of what you have reflected here is very sound A7. You have this unassuming knack for creating posts that makes plenty of sense

 

Was just pondering a bit.... I think watching the process ought to be simply that - to watch how things arise and subside without resorting to analysis. I am just wondering if by asking how/why things happen would in some way obscure the mere act of mindful attention to what is in the present? Since everything is energy, as you say, perhaps it would be quite futile then to investigate the nuts and bolts of the process cos that sometimes make things more solid than they actually are. In Tantrayana, its taught that the moment arisings are seen and recognized to be without solidity, these arisings, as mind-winds, whatever form or shape they take, are instantly pacified and let go of right at the moment of noticing the mind's empty nature.

 

It takes practice, but when distilled into habit, it can be intuited spontaneously that all what we call the world is essentially nothing but changing moments arising and ceasing by themselves. On a deeper level, actually there aren't even changing moments, but simply subtle winds stoking the mind that give rise to what we then perceive as 'Changing Moments'. Our mental involvement in trying to analyze the process may only serve to temporarily halt/hinder the luminous display of all that is. Its as if the moment we decide to think of something, then that very decision turns the mind outwards, giving rise immediately to reflections of past/future, or to put it another way, mind is born when thoughts arise.

 

Am thinking... Is there mind when/if at each moment we allow discursive thoughts to simply come and go without latching on to them and creating 'stories' from their self-generating energetic displays? The masters seem to point to 'No Mind' - and i am really interested to fully grasp what this means.

 

Your thoughts?

 

(I might have misunderstood that particular aspect of your post, and if thats so, please excuse this gibberish that have been written.)

 

Have a good day A7.

[Apech]

Most of what you have reflected here is very sound A7. You have this unassuming knack for creating posts that makes plenty of sense

 

To paraphrase Winston Churchill - I have a lot to be unassuming about (haha).

 

Was just pondering a bit.... I think watching the process ought to be simply that - to watch how things arise and subside without resorting to analysis. I am just wondering if by asking how/why things happen would in some way obscure the mere act of mindful attention to what is in the present? Since everything is energy, as you say, perhaps it would be quite futile then to investigate the nuts and bolts of the process cos that sometimes make things more solid than they actually are. In Tantrayana, its taught that the moment arisings are seen and recognized to be without solidity, these arisings, as mind-winds, whatever form or shape they take, are instantly pacified and let go of right at the moment of noticing the mind's empty nature.

 

I agree about the nuts and bolts investigation. Its hard enough getting to know anything about one's own responses and if this is about other people you can't possibly know the causes and processes - you just don't have that kind of information. I see it more like negotiating a terrain. Just as when you go for a ramble in the countryside you learn to climb hills, cross streams and so on - you don't ask why is there a hill, how did it come to be (unless you are a geologist I suppose but that's different). So I think when you go into situations - say if you work in an office, then you will be very conscious of the atmosphere, the tensions, the relationships - you just have to find your way around without either falling on your face or being dragged into the mire .... So yes - avoid the over analysis ... and in particular anything that does draw you in - well its your hook probably ....

 

It takes practice, but when distilled into habit, it can be intuited spontaneously that all what we call the world is essentially nothing but changing moments arising and ceasing by themselves. On a deeper level, actually there aren't even changing moments, but simply subtle winds stoking the mind that give rise to what we then perceive as 'Changing Moments'. Our mental involvement in trying to analyze the process may only serve to temporarily halt/hinder the luminous display of all that is. Its as if the moment we decide to think of something, then that very decision turns the mind outwards, giving rise immediately to reflections of past/future, or to put it another way, mind is born when thoughts arise.

 

'subtle winds stroking the mind' - I like that. I might see something like that alone on a mountain but in rush hour traffic or in the middle of a blazing row??? I think we need useful praxises (praxi? praxes? ... whatever) to deal with the world.

 

Am thinking... Is there mind when/if at each moment we allow discursive thoughts to simply come and go without latching on to them and creating 'stories' from their self-generating energetic displays? The masters seem to point to 'No Mind' - and i am really interested to fully grasp what this means.

 

Your thoughts?

 

(I might have misunderstood that particular aspect of your post, and if thats so, please excuse this gibberish that have been written.)

 

Have a good day A7.

 

Yes again ... I agree no-mind ... 'I don't mind if you no mind'

 

But I guess all I would say is that when even Buddhas and Bodhisattvas come to teach ignorant fools like me ... then they have to be able to empathize with my perspective. So I think they have two eyes - a transcendent one and a relative one - so when I say I'm worried about whatever they don't piss themselves laughing at my stupidity they can actually bend down to help me. It's like 'in the world but not of the world' - whoever said that???

 

Maybe I didn't get you ... but its a nice conversation.

[Mal]

But now that I'm at the step where I'm ACTUALLY feeling, as opposed to having to visualize or just pretend without really feeling it, I need to know what to do next- what do I do with these feelings, how do I interact with them, in a way that won't drive me insane, will allow me to progress even further, but at the same time allow me to feel and work with these feelings/energies in a constructive way should I choose to.

<snip>

and now I'm at that point, and sure, it's uncomfortable, but I'm happy as hell that I'm here

 

yet it still hurts

 

No easy answers from me either, just seems to be something you need to live through and learn from.

Or turn away for now, shut down and perhaps to try again later (an option I seem to choose way too often )

 

[Sloppy Zhang]

Or turn away for now, shut down and perhaps to try again later (an option I seem to choose way too often )

 

Nah, I've done that before in other avenues, and wind up kicking myself later, because I realize that what I was going through wasn't actually that bad, could have been used to my advantage, and then I spend lots and lots of time trying to get BACK to a place I spontaneously arrived at.

 

So, trying to do this right the first time around

[C T]

[ Enjoying your conversation very much, you two. Carry on. ]

 

Yes, i enjoyed it too. Each time i pick A7's thoughts i go away feeling invigorated. Often there is a lot of credence to what he posits.

(He has many apples in his basket, and he dont mind sharing!! )

[freeform]

You have a great opportunity here. This increase in sensitivity is good sign of progress.

 

The problems you're having are not with sensitivity itself, but with managing sensitivity.

 

Our awareness is like light. It can be focused to a narrow beam or spread peripherally like a bare lightbulb in the middle of the room... when we focus our beam on something in particular, we ignore everything else - when we spread our awareness we cannot focus on anything in particular.

 

21st century life is almost solely involves narrowing your awareness into a focused beam. The very nature of reading this is forcing you to narrow your focus. This narrowing has its plusses and its minuses... It makes anything that you're focused on seem very intense.

 

In our hunter gatherer past this narrowing was very useful when hunting... watch some videos of lions focusing on their pray - this is the kind of focus we almost constantly live in - or at the very least aim to live in.

 

When you're in a cinema, watching a horror movie, your attention focuses on the screen, and the sounds... everything else is ignored... since narrowed awareness makes for intense, focused sensitivity we often jump, scream, and are frightened by what we see.

 

If on the other hand you began to spread your focus... notice the seat you're sitting on... notice the people near you, behind you... notice your feet on the floor.. the smell of the room... the space between you and the screen etc. If you do this, suddenly what's on screen becomes part of the background... that edge of intensity is greatly diminished...

 

By spreading your focus you're creating space.

 

when you're becoming conscious of people's vibes your attention jumps to this novel experience and focuses... this makes it very intense... and at the same time you're missing the vibes that everything else is giving off - because it always is - you just need to notice it...

 

Next time this happens just accept it, and notice more. Slowly spread your attention further.

 

You say you feel like by breathing and letting go, the stuff you notice goes deeper into you... I suggest that what happens is by breathing and relaxing you're actually increasing your sensitivity - and since your awareness is focused on one thing, that one thing is felt and experienced deeper. So instead slow your breathing, relax and spread your focus.

 

Let me know how that works for you.

[Sloppy Zhang]

You have a great opportunity here. This increase in sensitivity is good sign of progress.

 

The problems you're having are not with sensitivity itself, but with managing sensitivity.

 

Our awareness is like light. It can be focused to a narrow beam or spread peripherally like a bare lightbulb in the middle of the room... when we focus our beam on something in particular, we ignore everything else - when we spread our awareness we cannot focus on anything in particular.

 

21st century life is almost solely involves narrowing your awareness into a focused beam. The very nature of reading this is forcing you to narrow your focus. This narrowing has its plusses and its minuses... It makes anything that you're focused on seem very intense.

 

In our hunter gatherer past this narrowing was very useful when hunting... watch some videos of lions focusing on their pray - this is the kind of focus we almost constantly live in - or at the very least aim to live in.

 

When you're in a cinema, watching a horror movie, your attention focuses on the screen, and the sounds... everything else is ignored... since narrowed awareness makes for intense, focused sensitivity we often jump, scream, and are frightened by what we see.

 

If on the other hand you began to spread your focus... notice the seat you're sitting on... notice the people near you, behind you... notice your feet on the floor.. the smell of the room... the space between you and the screen etc. If you do this, suddenly what's on screen becomes part of the background... that edge of intensity is greatly diminished...

 

By spreading your focus you're creating space.

 

when you're becoming conscious of people's vibes your attention jumps to this novel experience and focuses... this makes it very intense... and at the same time you're missing the vibes that everything else is giving off - because it always is - you just need to notice it...

 

Next time this happens just accept it, and notice more. Slowly spread your attention further.

 

You say you feel like by breathing and letting go, the stuff you notice goes deeper into you... I suggest that what happens is by breathing and relaxing you're actually increasing your sensitivity - and since your awareness is focused on one thing, that one thing is felt and experienced deeper. So instead slow your breathing, relax and spread your focus.

 

Let me know how that works for you.

 

Thank you very much. Excellent analogies. I will certainly try this

[Creation]

i think a big factor in helping me reach this stage of transformation was having intimate relationships with women, but without sex. This really opened my eyes to the transformational power of love, now sex has dropped really far down on my list.

Hi effilang.

 

I would very much appreciate it if you would expand on this. In what ways were you intimate? And with what kinds of women?

 

Thanks.