Falun Dafa thread - open discussion...

[Gauss]

All the English information on the web about this text Notes by Ge An by Nan Shiguis is on Falun Dafa sites, there is no impartial information about it. Not that all this is the slightest bit important really but for some reason I find all this doomsday prophesy and claiming exclusivity to salvation very annoying, it's like they are smiling at you while threatening you with annhilation unless you follow them, then claiming it is all about compassion I guess I need to have faith enough people will see through it all.

 

Well, can we use the Korean original text here? No we can not.

 

I guess the large majority who ever read that book in Korea became a Dafa disciple so that is the reason the translation is only published on Dafa sites...

 

But Ge An is a famous astronomer and the original exists in Korea.

[johndoe2012]

So Gauss, let's hear your detailed criticism about Buddhism, you can start with the Diamond Sutra.

 

Also, let's see a critique of Tao Te Ching.

 

Yours truely.

[Jetsun]

Well, can we use the Korean original text here? No we can not.

 

I guess the large majority who ever read that book in Korea became a Dafa disciple so that is the reason the translation is only published on Dafa sites...

 

But Ge An is a famous astronomer and the original exists in Korea.

 

Have you read the Korean? because this has to be one of the most obscure texts ever written as I can't find a single thing written on the entire Web about it in any language which doesn't come from a Falun Dafa website, how do you know its not just made up or even written by Li himself?

[levo]

So Gauss, let's hear your detailed criticism about Buddhism, you can start with the Diamond Sutra.

 

Also, let's see a critique of Tao Te Ching.

 

Yours truely.

Why don't we see a critique of Mahabharata from you first. After-all, It is only about one hundred thousand verses.

 

Seriously, what are you trying to prove and what is it that you are after?

Edited October 18, 2010 by levo

[Gauss]

So Gauss, let's hear your detailed criticism about Buddhism, you can start with the Diamond Sutra.

 

Also, let's see a critique of Tao Te Ching.

 

Yours truely.

 

Did I ever critizise those texts? I did not. I do not critizise other cultivations schools at all and especially not upright cultivation schools like Buddhism or Daoism. Has Master Li not said that some Buddhist monks have a very high cultivation level? He has. We acknowledge them too.

 

 

Remember, do we cultivate Ren(Tolerance) in Falun Dafa? We do.

 

On the contrary you slander Dafa everywhere here and yet you use no argumentation or logics for your criticism. Everyone can cry out that such and such school or Master is bad, evil etc.

 

Show us where the Fa is wrong according to your opinion?

 

I have chosen to cultivate in Dafa because I find its Fa(Law theory) superior to all other cultivation schools. One reason is that the Fa is 2500 years younger with modern scientific terms incorporated into it for the modern people of this era and it has a Master who wrote all the scriptures by himself during this age. FD also has a complete cultivation way of body and soul which is exactly what I have searched for.

 

Buddha Shakyamuni did not write any of his scriptures, they were compiled 500 years after he passed away by some monks and they tried to remember what he had said. Of course alot of what he had said was forgotten and misinterpreted 500 years after his passing. Shakyamuni was a great enlightened being from an extremely high level but there was no paper at that time so things got complicated. Same thing goes for Jesus, he did not write his scriptures by himself either.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Gauss

[johndoe2012]

Clearwisdom

 

Nowadays, most Buddhist monks don't truly cultivate. Even the monks who truly cultivate have not seen the genuine Dao, so it is difficult for them to cultivate. Nevertheless, they know that the Fa in today's Buddhism cannot save people. As a result, they have to wait for Buddha Maitreya or the Holy Falun King to come save people.

 

Glossary

 

Dharma-ending Period According to Buddha Sakyamuni, Dharma-ending Period begins five hundred years after he passed away, and his Dharma could no longer save people thereafter.

 

This is concrete, links from your websites. Discuss!

 

Why are you spreading untruths?

[johndoe2012]

Why don't we see a critique of Mahabharata from you first. After-all, It is only about one hundred thousand verses.

 

Seriously, what are you trying to prove and what is it that you are after?

 

You come here, expecting us to dissect your philosophy and discuss it. When we point us flaws, you say we slander.

 

This is pure delusion. Read those two pieces I pointed out. They are simple and to the point.

[Jetsun]

Why don't we see a critique of Mahabharata from you first. After-all, It is only about one hundred thousand verses.

 

Seriously, what are you trying to prove and what is it that you are after?

 

It has been stated in a number of posts and prophecies here that Falun Gong is the only way to cultivate to a high level, in order to believe that and propogate that idea you have to have studied all of the other ways in great depth in order to be able to comment of their level, so if you are going to repeat that idea you have to be able to back it up with valid criticisms.

[levo]

You come here, expecting us to dissect your philosophy and discuss it. When we point us flaws, you say we slander.

 

This is pure delusion. Read those two pieces I pointed out. They are simple and to the point.

If they were simple and to the point why were there whole bunch of commentary books written about them to explain them?

[Stigweard]

Hey folks,

 

Just want to add a polite moderation reminder to steer clear of insults.

 

Yes we can passionately disagree, and yes we can vigorously debate. But if you start slinging insults at someone, their teacher, or their beliefs then you will be appropriately dealt with in accordance with our Moderation Guidelines.

 

A few insults have slipped under our radar already in this thread (we kinda had our hands full with other issues ), so here's a polite notice that tolerance levels for insults in this topic is officially "0".

 

Warm Regards

 

Stig

 

<-- Moderation Team -->

[C T]

Do you see a real Tantric Lama throwing bad words around himself?

 

You are right - most wont. And those that wont would certainly not be preaching/prophesying/complicating subjects in the same manner that you do as well.

 

True cultivation in Taoism/Buddhism is about returning to simplicity and clarity. From what i have read of FG so far, it is neither simple nor clear.

[Gauss]

[Gauss]

You are right - most wont. And those that wont would certainly not be preaching/prophesying/complicating subjects in the same manner that you do as well.

 

True cultivation in Taoism/Buddhism is about returning to simplicity and clarity. From what i have read of FG so far, it is neither simple nor clear.

 

Good to hear that we agree on the Lamas being tolerant at least.

 

About myself, can I present truth? No I can not. I am merely a simple cultivator at a low level. However, I have, at my level, understood that I should never slander people or other cultivation schools. I do not want to accumulate karma.

 

I merely tell people that Zhen-Shan-Ren is good and Falun Dafa is good. If they accept only that I am more than happy no matter if they cultivate or not.

 

I speak about Dafa because I find it good and because I believe if people just like the principle of Zhen-Shan-Ren is good they will be much happier and have less worries.

 

If you want to understand FD you need to study Zhuan Falun, over and over again. It is said that it takes three readthroughs to understand what cultivation is. Every time one reads the book one enlightens to a higher truth. Always one has questions about some new things, the next readthrough gives those answers and then new questions are created.... It is a never ending process and cultivation is arduous.

 

Why is it so hard to become a good person? Your karma will try to stop you, it is intelligent too and knows it will be eliminated if you change yourself for the better.

[Gauss]

[Jetsun]

Out of curiosity has Falun Dafa produced any more masters or teachers on the same level as Li? I'd say that a good test of someones system is whether they can lead people to realise the same realizations they had, if they are claiming exclusivity to certain levels then they are probably not telling the truth as the ultimate truth of existance is available to anyone but very few people have the skill to be able to teach it well. This is all that distinguished the Buddha from many other realised beings, he was just a man but he had the skill to teach what he realised to lead people to the same realisations.

[Gauss]

Out of curiosity has Falun Dafa produced any more masters or teachers on the same level as Li? I'd say that a good test of someones system is whether they can lead people to realise the same realizations they had, if they are claiming exclusivity to certain levels then they are probably not telling the truth as the ultimate truth of existance is available to anyone but very few people have the skill to be able to teach it well. This is all that distinguished the Buddha from many other realised beings, he was just a man but he had the skill to teach what he realised to lead people to the same realisations.

 

I would say it is impossible for a Dafa cultivator to reach the same level as Li Hongzhi. He used a more powerful cultivation method which is secret. And his cultivation path was one where he reached sudden enlightenment, somehting which is extremely painful to do and no average people can suffer like that.

 

I remember I read once that there are some Dafa cultivators who will reach Tataghata level in this phase but they are few. Right now there are many at Arhat level or even Bodhisattva level I believe.

 

In the future, everyone who reaches Zhengguo(right fruit) in this phase will be able to come down later and cultivate higher if they did not consummate in this run.

[Gauss]

[Gauss]

Someone asked more about "Mahdi" in the Islamic end times prophecy:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi

 

#

# The name of the Mahdi's representative will begin with the first-letter of a prophet's name and a verse of the Qur'an: ی (English: Y).[7]

 

As far as I understand the above "Lot" is a prophet and a possibility. That would make Mahdi´s name pronounced "Ly" if the above stated information is correct.

 

 

In the Viking end times prophecy of Eddan it is said:

"

36. River falls east

through venom dales

with scissors and sword;

Slidr is its name."

 

 

Now this text is more than astonishing to someone familiar with Nordic languages.

 

S(Ass is the old nordic name for God, pronounced almost the same as a modern S) can be understood as many things like "God" or "Ace" in modern times. Li is the name we know about. "Dr" is equivalent to "He" in old times. So Slidr would become "God Li He". River is understood as "wisdom" in the old times.

 

So "God-Li-He" is the wisdom that will clean out evil in the world according to Eddan.

 

Of course, Eddan belongs to "Asatro" which equals "Asia belief" in English. Also in Eddan China is called the center of the world where the highest wisdom resides.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Gauss

[C T]

I would say it is impossible for a Dafa cultivator to reach the same level as Li Hongzhi. He used a more powerful cultivation method which is secret.

Are you being serious here, Mr Gauss? Is he keeping the best bits for himself then? Something smells, if what you are saying is true. No wonder the brighter Bums here are so concerned for your welfare that they actually take the time/make the effort to alert you to the basic flaws of the system. (Brownie points to all - the more you guys try to wake Mr Gauss up, the purer your karma, so keep it up!!) Btw, what's been highlighted above is one such flaw. Its like a flashing beacon, yet your 'wisdom level' does not allow you to see it. I beg of you - please, please wake up. This man is playing god... does that not say something to you? Subservience to a higher human authority is the last thing any true spiritual tradition would encourage. The way i see it, your whole premise for promoting FG here has suddenly collapsed due to this one single declaration you have made.

 

Sorry for being so straightforward. Could not live with myself if i kept quiet.

Edited October 23, 2010 by CowTao

[Stigweard]

As a performing magician I would say the "First Rule of Wizardry" holds true:

 

People will believe any lie. Either because they desperately want it to be true. Or because they are afraid it is true.

 

[3bob]

As a performing magician I would say the "First Rule of Wizardry" holds true:

 

People will believe any lie. Either because they desperately want it to be true. Or because they are afraid it is true.

 

 

so is non-dualism big enough to contain a "lie" of dualism, or is dualism not really a lie?

 

Om

[lino]

[Gauss]

Are you being serious here, Mr Gauss? Is he keeping the best bits for himself then? Something smells, if what you are saying is true. No wonder the brighter Bums here are so concerned for your welfare that they actually take the time/make the effort to alert you to the basic flaws of the system. (Brownie points to all - the more you guys try to wake Mr Gauss up, the purer your karma, so keep it up!!) Btw, what's been highlighted above is one such flaw. Its like a flashing beacon, yet your 'wisdom level' does not allow you to see it. I beg of you - please, please wake up. This man is playing god... does that not say something to you? Subservience to a higher human authority is the last thing any true spiritual tradition would encourage. The way i see it, your whole premise for promoting FG here has suddenly collapsed due to this one single declaration you have made.

 

Sorry for being so straightforward. Could not live with myself if i kept quiet.

 

As mentioned before, FD people in general are not more stupid than others judging by their professional achievements in everyday society.

 

What you are mentioning here means you think all people are born the same with the same inborn quality(virtue, karma).

 

I make an example; if this cosmos has 100 trillion years of history, the first being to be born in this cosmos, should he not hold more wisdom(virtue) than the person born yesterday?

 

If that being lives in the top dimension of this cosmos and he decides to reincarnate in the bottom dimension(the earth, where you can see no other dimensions without being special or making a real effort), should he not be born special? Would he not make arrangements so higher level Gods could instruct him as he grows up?

 

There have been secret cultivation methods throughout the history of mankind being passed on from Master to a single disciple. They are only offered to those persons with exceptional inborn quality. Such a person can cultivate with that method but a normal people can not support the pain and hence it stays secret.

 

What the public version of Falun Dafa is, is great too, but no FD disciple will ever be able to reach the level of Li Hongzhi. The reason is quite obvious as I see it.

 

What is a prophecy? How can someone see the future of mankind in ie 1000 years?

 

It is very easily explained, he enters another dimension where our time-space does not affect at all. In that different time-space the concept of time is completely different, that dimension may exist 1000 years ahead of us and time runs 1 million times faster than here.

 

Physics and mathematics has acknowledged the concept of different time-space dimensions for a very long time. Prophecies are a great example of a different time-space dimension.

 

What do all the old prophecies really say(overtly or covertly) as shown in this thread?

 

Li Hongzhi is who we should believe in.

 

Of course, some people can not believe it until too late, but that is the way it must be.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Gauss

[C T]

As mentioned before, FD people in general are not more stupid than others judging by their professional achievements in everyday society.

 

What you are mentioning here means you think all people are born the same with the same inborn quality(virtue, karma).

 

I make an example; if this cosmos has 100 trillion years of history, the first being to be born in this cosmos, should he not hold more wisdom(virtue) than the person born yesterday?

 

If that being lives in the top dimension of this cosmos and he decides to reincarnate in the bottom dimension(the earth, where you can see no other dimensions without being special or making a real effort), should he not be born special? Would he not make arrangements so higher level Gods could instruct him as he grows up?

 

There have been secret cultivation methods throughout the history of mankind being passed on from Master to a single disciple. They are only offered to those persons with exceptional inborn quality. Such a person can cultivate with that method but a normal people can not support the pain and hence it stays secret.

 

What the public version of Falun Dafa is, is great too, but no FD disciple will ever be able to reach the level of Li Hongzhi. The reason is quite obvious as I see it.

 

What is a prophecy? How can someone see the future of mankind in ie 1000 years?

 

It is very easily explained, he enters another dimension where our time-space does not affect at all. In that different time-space the concept of time is completely different, that dimension may exist 1000 years ahead of us and time runs 1 million times faster than here.

 

Physics and mathematics has acknowledged the concept of different time-space dimensions for a very long time. Prophecies are a great example of a different time-space dimension.

 

What do all the old prophecies really say(overtly or covertly) as shown in this thread?

 

Li Hongzhi is the Son of Man.

 

Of course, some people can not believe it until too late, but that is the way it must be.

You, my dear sir, indulge in too much speculation. A lot of what you say is just wishful thinking mixed in with half-truths, failed prophecies and some home-made philosophical stir-ins, and then you hope that someone will find your 'cooking' all kosher. Well it aint, and with another fantastical declaration to boot (Li Hongzhi is the Son of Man?) i think i will cease to engage you further, Mr Gauss, as its obvious what your agenda here is.

 

You seem like a smart man.. really hope that one day you will wake up and walk out of this fog.

 

Thanks for your time and patience.

[Gauss]

The Hindu prophecy about Kalki Avatar:

 

When the practices taught by the Vedas and the institutes of law, shall nearly have ceased, and the close of the Koli age shall be nigh, a portion of that Divine Being who exists of his own spiritual nature, in the character of Brahma, and who is the Beginning and the End, and who comprehends all things shall descend upon the earth. He will be born as Kalki in the family of an eminent Brahmin, of Shambhala village, endowed with the eight superhuman faculties. By his irresistible might, He will destroy all the barbarians and thieves, and all whose minds are devoted to iniquity. He will then re-establish righteousness upon earth; and the minds of those who live at the end of the Koli age, shall be awakened, and shall be as pellucid as crystal. The men who are thus changed by virtue of that peculiar time, shall be as the seeds of human beings, and shall give birth to a race who shall follow the laws of the Kritya Age, the Age of Purity.

 

Afterwards, Sumati, the wife of Vishnujasha became pregnant.... Kalki descended to earth (as a human) in the month of Baisakha on the 12th day after the full moon

 

~ Kalki Purana, I[2], Verses 11 and 15

 

Kalki is born to a man named Vishnujasha and a woman named Sumati in the Hindu month of Baisakha, which starts from 14th or 15th April and lasts till 14th or 15th May. So, Kalki will be born 12 days from the full moon day (after 14th/15th April), which can be anytime between 26th April to 15th May. I[2]. V.31 also says that he had three elder brothers. According to I[2] V.32, the King of the land where Kalki is born is named Vishakhjupa. As per I[2] V.4, the mission of Kalki's life is to destroy Koli - the equivalent of the Anti-Christ (in whose name the present age is named). Koli signifies a person as well as the vices which are peculiar to this age. As per I[3], V.25 Kalki was given a white horse, which he rode during his conquests all over the world. In fact Kalki is always symbolized as riding a white horse.

 

I quote from the Hindu prophecy:

 

"He will be a true Brahman (by inner nature) from Shambhala. He will be known as Kalki, chalky (Caucasian), endowed with all eight superhuman faculties, siddhis. "

 

The part who says he is born in Shambhala is real interesting... Nobody today knows where Shambhala village exists.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shambhala

 

Look at this part:

 

Ancient Zhang Zhung texts identify Shambhala with the Sutlej Valley in Himachal Pradesh. Mongolians identify Shambala with certain valleys of southern Siberia.

 

So the reference to Shambhala is made for the first time in ancient Zhang Zhung documents.

 

Zhang Zhung, Shang Shung, or Tibetan Pinyin: Xang Xung it can be spelled.

 

Where was Master Li born? ChangChun! Same pronounciation as Zhang Zhung...

 

Master Li Hongzhi is said to have been born on May 13th 1951. Correct according to the Hindu prophecy.

 

Of course, to add some fuel to the flames the CCP refuses to accept that birthdate and claims Li Hongzhi was born on July 7th 1952... As we all know the Communists will slander everything related to FD and Li Hongzhi.

 

I find these details interesting indeed.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Gauss