Taoist magic

[Stigweard]

Tough love time...

 

I have heard it said that someone could hear the most profound truth in the Universe, but if they don't have the personal power to recognize it then it will pass them by. Your disregard for the incredible wisdom shared with you here SZ makes me think that you are more in love with the "idea" of having powers than having the required commitment and backbone to actually do what it takes to make any progress.

 

What would be your impression of someone who asked for directions to the mountain-top only for them to fob off the instructions of seasoned climbers saying that they themselves, who had never climbed past base-camp, knew better???

 

Do you really want to know the answer? Or do you find your sense of importance by indulging in incessant questions? I've met people like that; people who think they are all so spiritually advanced because they can prattle on with mystical questions. Are you one of them?

 

Here's one final crumb and then I am done:

 

Dion Fortune, one of the most famous of European occultists, said of magic:

 

"Magic is the art of changing consciousness at will."

 

[Aetherous]

Surrender? That's nice. Been there. Done that. Got nothing.

 

You weren't surrendered. If you truly surrender, in that moment you attain enlightenment. Surrendering is not a choice...a person can't say "Oh yeah, I'm going to surrender now." You have to go through shit (which you are) and continually attempt to let go of everything, until the moment comes when you actually do. Plus, it's a continual thing, not something where you go and get the t-shirt: "I survived surrendering!" Good for you! But you just fell from glory...

 

Just look at your actions and you'll see how surrendered you are.

 

I agree with fiveelementtao's suggestion of what you should do.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I never told you not to go after it.

 

Yes, I know

 

Go back and re-read what I said... slowly.

 

To everyone: go back and re-read what I said.... carefully.

 

I am looking for practical methods to get specific results. Advice on what to practice, and/or how to practice it, is greatly welcomed.

 

Commentary on personal life, journey, what happens when/if you get them, etc etc is nice to hear, especially when it comes in the form of personal experience. However, I've heard lots of stories before, I've heard all the advice, and all that jazz. And that's not really why I made the thread.

 

It's not that I'm not reading it or not reflecting on it. It's just that.... well, everywhere you turn is philosophizing. But not much on actual practice. And it's the actual practice that I'm looking to work with.

 

Having said that, I will tell how exactly how to get what you want. This is a technique and it works everytime. You can choose to do it or not, believe me or not, I don't care. Here is the technique: Meditate and ask for them and ask why you don't have them. Then let it go completely and keep your eyes open. If you stay detached, you WILL find it or it will find you. If, however, you continue to project that everyone is dicking you around with spiritual platitudes and that life sucks, then you will miss it. Even if it's right in front of you.

 

Thank you for your help

[Sloppy Zhang]

Tough love time...

 

I have heard it said that someone could hear the most profound truth in the Universe, but if they don't have the personal power to recognize it then it will pass them by.

 

Yes, I have heard that as well, and completely agree. But I'm not looking for profound truths to the universe. I'm looking for ways to cultivate certain abilities. I'm not looking to open up an ethical/philosophical/hypothetical discussion on what will or will not change when one attains abilities. I'm just looking to attain them.

 

Your disregard for the incredible wisdom shared with you here SZ makes me think that you are more in love with the "idea" of having powers than having the required commitment and backbone to actually do what it takes to make any progress.

 

I'm not disregarding the wisdom. I've read each post very carefully. HOWEVER, as I said above, this thread is not about philosophy. It's about actual practices that I can do.

 

Giving me the theory behind what I'm supposed to do, how to view it, and all that is nice, but if you don't have a practice to embody that theory, well, it doesn't do much. Quick example with tai chi- people hear "oh yeah, yield, soft overcoming hard", but being armed with that philosophy alone won't make you a tai chi master, you have to know how to embody those principles in your practice, and you have to know what practice to do which embodies those principles.

 

A lot of principles flying around, but comparatively few practices. Which is why I made the thread!

 

Do you really want to know the answer?

 

 

 

Or do you find your sense of importance by indulging in incessant questions?

 

I ask until I've got what I'm looking for.

 

Here's an example: you've given a great outline of the theory behind magic. Now, how do you DO it? How do you go from meditating, knowing the quotes, doing qigong, etc, to doing magic?

 

Here's one final crumb and then I am done:

 

Feeding a starving person crumbs doesn't help much.

 

Dion Fortune, one of the most famous of European occultists, said of magic:

 

"Magic is the art of changing consciousness at will."

 

 

Marijuana can change your consciousness whenever you want

 

You weren't surrendered.

 

Exactly, because, as I said above, if I was, then I would not have this problem. The fact it didn't work means I wasn't doing it (right).

 

If you truly surrender, in that moment you attain enlightenment. Surrendering is not a choice...a person can't say "Oh yeah, I'm going to surrender now." You have to go through shit (which you are) and continually attempt to let go of everything, until the moment comes when you actually do. Plus, it's a continual thing, not something where you go and get the t-shirt: "I survived surrendering!" Good for you! But you just fell from glory...

 

Just look at your actions and you'll see how surrendered you are.

 

Interesting bits.

[Stigweard]

But I'm not looking for profound truths to the universe.

 

Sorry matey, but that's hilarious:

 

"I want to know the secrets of magic ... but as long as those secrets aren't a profound universal truth!"

 

Priceless

 

I'm not disregarding the wisdom. I've read each post very carefully. HOWEVER, as I said above, this thread is not about philosophy. It's about actual practices that I can do.

 

Giving me the theory behind what I'm supposed to do, how to view it, and all that is nice, but if you don't have a practice to embody that theory, well, it doesn't do much.

 

... you've given a great outline of the theory behind magic. Now, how do you DO it? How do you go from meditating, knowing the quotes, doing qigong, etc, to doing magic?

Obviously you may have read each post but you didn't properly regard the implications. I will repost my first response to you. It is a clear recipe for the achievement of your goals.

 

One form of Taoist magic, Fu Jyeo 符咒, is similar in principle and is subject to the same misinterpretations and misappropriations as all forms of magic.

 

Magic is based on the premise that power plus the sustained alignment of intent creates an outcome. In order to sustain intent and to generate power "tools" were introduced -- spoken and written words, symbols, physical components, physical actions/practices etc. However it all comes back to the underlying formula:

 

Power + Intent = Outcome

 

How to generate power:

• Dissolving unnecessary investments of energy into artificial personality constructs -- this both frees up energy and stops leakages.
  
• Vitalizing and nourishing Jing, Qi, and Shen through traditional Taoist practices like Qigong, Neidan etc.
  
• "Summoning" energy of natural energy sources (sun, moon, stars, earth, etc.) and deities through pray, ritual, offerings
  

How to sustain intent:

• Articulating an intent through a written word (i.e. a spell or incantation). Interesting that the art of stringing together letters (originally magic symbols to signify spheres or phases of energy exactly like the I Ching) is called "spelling"
  
• Using physical components (i.e. crystals, herbs, charms etc.) to be anchors of intent and conduits of power
  
• Performing rituals that achieve the purpose of both generating power, focusing intent, and releasing intent
  

Most people fail in magic, regardless of which tradition, because they either can't generate energy or can't sustain intent or both.

 

I am going to ask you a very straight forward question ... are you practicing? In other words are you actually engaging in Taoist practices like qigong, neidan, etc ?? Are you doing it regularly, like at least 3 times a week?

 

Here is the truth of qigong that Ya Mu was trying to get across ... it is the crucible of the magic you are looking for. I know of no other practice that so effectively builds power and trains intent like qigong.

 

You have my best answer ... do what you want with it.

 

[Sloppy Zhang]

 

Sorry matey, but that's hilarious:

 

"I want to know the secrets of magic ... but as long as those secrets aren't a profound universal truth!"

 

Priceless

 

If magic and profound universal truth are the same, then they are the same. So then.... where are they? A lot of people running around saying they've got the universal truth, and they can teach you, and a lot of their students saying they got it, but not a lot of people running around practicing magic so.......

 

 

Obviously you may have read each post but you didn't properly regard the implications.

 

And you know this how?

 

I will repost my first response to you. It is a clear recipe for the achievement of your goals.

 

 

I am going to ask you a very straight forward question ... are you practicing? In other words are you actually engaging in Taoist practices like qigong, neidan, etc ?? Are you doing it regularly, like at least 3 times a week?

 

Yes. Now how do the practices translate to magic?

 

Here is the truth of qigong that Ya Mu was trying to get across ... it is the crucible of the magic you are looking for. I know of no other practice that so effectively builds power and trains intent like qigong.

 

So then how do you take the power and intent from qigong and do magic with it?

 

You have my best answer ... do what you want with it.

 

 

I'm doing all kinds of things with the stuff I get from thetaobums- which is why I keep coming back!

[fiveelementtao]

<How do you translate the energy of qigong into magic?>

Stig already told you the exact formula.

Intent + Energy = magic

 

If that is not clear enough, I understand. It's time to find a teacher. Books, internet and videos can only do so much. Find someone who has achieved what you want and ask them how they did it... and then shut up and listen... If they tell you something you don't like or understand, don't argue with them. Meditate on what they said and have patience...When it comes to magical abilities, it demands subtlety, detachment, persistence and patience, traits you are not exhibiting right now.

 

Ya Mu was also spot on. If you could learn to transmit energy to others through healing arts, you will know how to create magic. It is the exact same process. Energy Healing teaches you to focus your intent on a specific target. If you can do that, you can do any other kind of magic.

 

Earlier, you made a comment about marijuana. Assuming that means you currently smoke weed... Stop! Weed will kill any magical abilities. It sucks all the power out of you and dulls your intent and creates attachment. Weed destroys the ingredients in Stig's equation. So, if you really want to learn energy magic,you are going to have to choose between Weed and Magic. Can't have both. If I misread that statement and you don't smoke weed, then never mind...

Edited November 4, 2010 by fiveelementtao

[Sloppy Zhang]

Ya Mu was also spot on. If you could learn to transmit energy to others through healing arts, you will know how to create magic. It is the exact same process. Energy Healing teaches you to focus your intent on a specific target. If you can do that, you can do any other kind of magic.

 

I am paying attention, you know! Just because I don't respond to everything said, doesn't mean I don't read everything said. In fact, most of the things I don't respond to are things I've "shut up and listening/reflecting" on!

 

Earlier, you made a comment about marijuana. Assuming that means you currently smoke weed... Stop! Weed will kill any magical abilities. It sucks all the power out of you and dulls your intent and creates attachment. Weed destroys the ingredients in Stig's equation. So, if you really want to learn energy magic,you are going to have to choose between Weed and Magic. Can't have both. If I misread that statement and you don't smoke weed, then never mind...

 

I don't. But I know a few people who do. And it's interesting comparing experiences. I also come across studies of psychedelics used in psychological experiments and whatnot. Interesting comparing those experiences to mine (translation: not a whole lot of difference). Which is why I am so intent (hehe) on having an objectively verifiable result to my practice, rather than just some shift in consciousness.... or perhaps better phrased, a shift in consciousness which has verifiable results in places outside my own head!

[thelerner]

I'm actually working on some stuff now that I'd rather not discuss. Had interesting experiences,

 

Sure, liberation and escaping from cycles and wheels and stuff is good. In the long run, I want to do that (oh noes! "I want") Right now though, first things first! - da powerz!

 

Well, we need something, let us know in general terms what you practice, at least in hours spent.

 

For vast powers it may well be a case meditate daily 8 hours a day for the next ten year, then get more serious and up it to 12 hours daily, finally move onto 16 hours before you reach advance level of 24 hours a day. You graduate when you can actually die in meditation. No powers for this life, but it will set you on a strong course for the next one.

 

Actually I'm only kidding(I think), but there is truth is jest. How did you feel when you read what was above. 8 hours daily being beginner level for a young magi in training?

 

Funny thing is, as some have pointed out, in the pursuit of power if you accidentally slip into the spiritual way of things, powers become unimportant.

 

Michael

 

 

Well if you want Magic and specific advice. Read Bardon, start w/ Initiation Into Hermetics. Go to Abardoncompanion.com and start doing some sequences in Rawn Clark's series. They start easy and move progressively deeper. Bardon starts his magical series with a deep level of self understanding. He progresses after many years of study into dealing w/ elementals and various powers. But to get there you must understand and develop yourself, and thats integral to the program.

 

It may be what your looking for.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Actually I'm only kidding(I think), but there is truth is jest.

 

I also think there is truth in jest

 

How did you feel when you read what was above. 8 hours daily being beginner level for a young magi in training?

 

Not a problem, I just gotta set myself up so I have 8 hours a day of meditation to do

 

Well if you want Magic and specific advice. Read Bardon, start w/ Initiation Into Hermetics. Go to Abardoncompanion.com and start doing some sequences in Rawn Clark's series. They start easy and move progressively deeper. Bardon starts his magical series with a deep level of self understanding. He progresses after many years of study into dealing w/ elementals and various powers. But to get there you must understand and develop yourself, and thats integral to the program.

 

It may be what your looking for.

 

Worked with Bardon for a little under a year, precisely because he was teaching exactly what I wanted. But it didn't work out for me. So I stuck with it, thought it was something I just had to overcome and deal with. But it didn't work. As much as I want stuff, I'm not going to compromise myself to get it! "To thine own self be true".

 

But I really like the taoist stuff, it really appealed to me and the practices that I do (mostly energy gates + taoist meditation that BKF teaches in his books, do dissolving for 1-2 hours a day, and do taoist meditation for about an hour a day), so I thought, "why don't I find a system of magic that corresponds to what appeals to me philosophically, what I see in my daily life, and what lines up with the practices I already do?"

 

So, taoist magic

[Mal]

Actually I think you are probably progressing rather nicely, and will probably either have powers (or not want them ) in 3~5 years if you keep at it.

 

I also went through western occult, eventually Bardon, Buddhism, then Taoism. The journey taught me many things, and while I may have wandered a few paths I'm glad I didn't rush

[Sloppy Zhang]

Actually I think you are probably progressing rather nicely, and will probably either have powers (or not want them ) in 3~5 years if you keep at it.

 

I also went through western occult, eventually Bardon, Buddhism, then Taoism. The journey taught me many things, and while I may have wandered a few paths I'm glad I didn't rush

 

Thanks for your confidence!

[RyanO]

Mantak Chia is coming out with a new book on the Taoist Medicine Wheel:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Taoist-Shaman-Practices-Wheel-Life/dp/1594773653/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1288994433&sr=8-23

 

Sources say its estimated in December.

 

 

 

But check this out, its the blog by the co-author:

 

http://krisdevanorth.blogspot.com/2010/10/taoist-medicine-wheel-1st-instalment.html

 

Looks like he has his personal version of the book out electronically (pdf and kindle), and the first four chapters free on his blog.

 

 

I haven't read it yet, but it looks awesome and very relevant to this topic.

 

 

Peace!

[Sloppy Zhang]

Mantak Chia is coming out with a new book on the Taoist Medicine Wheel:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Taoist-Shaman-Practices-Wheel-Life/dp/1594773653/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1288994433&sr=8-23

 

Sources say its estimated in December.

 

 

 

But check this out, its the blog by the co-author:

 

http://krisdevanorth.blogspot.com/2010/10/taoist-medicine-wheel-1st-instalment.html

 

Looks like he has his personal version of the book out electronically (pdf and kindle), and the first four chapters free on his blog.

 

 

I haven't read it yet, but it looks awesome and very relevant to this topic.

 

 

Peace!

 

Looks neat, thanks for those links!

[Birch]

I'm glad I didn't rush

 

From Mr Guzzi :-p

 

You can't "rush" bro, you's already dere

 

Besides, from what I've "got" so far. The paths themselves will rush you like there's no tomorrow (there isn't one, until there is)

[starhawk]

 

Can you imagine the kind of world where you can do anything? What would it mean? Would you want it? It might be a lonely world. It might be a world with you and not much else in it. Have you thought about this at all?

 

 

Yes, such a world almost exists for me. It is called minecraft.

 

 

 

: : )

[4 eyes!)

[Sloppy Zhang]

So I was browsing through the forum and saw "taoist magic", and thought "wow, exactly my type of thread". I wonder way, I started it

 

Went back and read through some of the old posts.

 

Actually I think you are probably progressing rather nicely, and will probably either have powers (or not want them ) in 3~5 years if you keep at it.

 

A little over a year. Still want powers Still don't have any repeatable, objective stuff yet

 

It's interesting, the more I get involved in meditation and stuff, the more of the world I see, the more I interact with people... the more I see people who have "power" without "virtue". People who abuse power. People who get it through unnatural, unhealthy, unfair, or dangerous means, and then abuse good people It pisses me off to no end, as good people suffer or are victimized and think they deserve it, or that that's how the world works.

 

On some days I'm sorely tempted to just give up and go straight for the power, because at least then I know that I won't be an asshole with the power.... but I never can do it

 

So I still do what I'm doing, with a belief that somehow it'll be okay.... though I'm proven time and time again that it's not the case.

[flowing hands]

Real Power, natural magic, can only be obtained through true enlightenment. This process will purify the heart, purify the mind and then the need of great power no longer exists. One can therefore be the keeper of great power and never use it.

 

Ambition for real power will lead one away from ever obtaining it, because of the self.

[GeoBall]

Those who know, don't need to be told.

Those who do not, seldom listen.

[Oolong Rabbit]

So I was browsing through the forum and saw "taoist magic", and thought "wow, exactly my type of thread". I wonder way, I started it

 

Went back and read through some of the old posts.

 

 

 

A little over a year. Still want powers Still don't have any repeatable, objective stuff yet

 

It's interesting, the more I get involved in meditation and stuff, the more of the world I see, the more I interact with people... the more I see people who have "power" without "virtue". People who abuse power. People who get it through unnatural, unhealthy, unfair, or dangerous means, and then abuse good people It pisses me off to no end, as good people suffer or are victimized and think they deserve it, or that that's how the world works.

 

On some days I'm sorely tempted to just give up and go straight for the power, because at least then I know that I won't be an asshole with the power.... but I never can do it

 

So I still do what I'm doing, with a belief that somehow it'll be okay.... though I'm proven time and time again that it's not the case.

 

You alredy have powers brother, you just don't recognize them for what they are. The power of wisdom for example is infinitely more useful than say the power to bend a spoon through telekinesis. One sifu I learned a lot from would say the siddhis will come, but don't go looking for them. Work on cultivating your wisdom.

 

Possibly some of those who seem to have power without virtue may have done the "work" in previous incarnations. If they misuse them, then they will have to deal with karmic repercussions (and would have been much better off without siddhis). Others may have aquired power through demonic means.

[Sloppy Zhang]

You alredy have powers brother, you just don't recognize them for what they are. The power of wisdom for example is infinitely more useful than say the power to bend a spoon through telekinesis. One sifu I learned a lot from would say the siddhis will come, but don't go looking for them. Work on cultivating your wisdom.

 

Possibly some of those who seem to have power without virtue may have done the "work" in previous incarnations. If they misuse them, then they will have to deal with karmic repercussions (and would have been much better off without siddhis). Others may have aquired power through demonic means.

 

Right, well look, I can meditate and reflect on the nature of human existence and the nature of suffering. I can feel compassion and sorrow for my fellow human being.

 

But when push comes to shove, and there are people in this world who will push and shove, what can I really do about it? Nothing.

 

All the reflection and compassion I can feel for someone won't stop them as they wreak havoc either on myself or those I care about (yeah yeah, attachment attachment attachment, blah blah).

 

A single bullet can take away everything I hold dear.

 

A sharp piece of metal can cut through any compassion I have for someone.

 

And a couple of strong people can hold me down and keep me from being able to do anything about it.

 

So at the end of the day, I am still asking: what change has there really been? I get a meditation high as I feel love and compassion, meanwhile a bunch of shit goes on around me?

 

Seems like it'd be a better use of time to hit the gym, learn where to stab someone, and buy a gun

 

Now that's fucked up, if you ask me.

[Mokona]

Franz Bardon's Initiation into Hermetics worked for a friend of mine, he supplemented it with Chi Kung-Horse Stance, physical excersise, and one moving chi kung form and Meditation and taught himself to do energy work in deep trance.

 

Kid is amazing.

[Birch]

Aand the TTB's vacay is in danger.

Anyway, Mr Slopp, the point (if you will) of any of these practices is IMO the deconditioning of oneself in the first instance and the subsequent re-conditioning of oneself (if that is one's considered choice once personal freedom has been regained). I guess that after that point, learning fighting becomes much more useful. I'll let you know if I get to that point.

[Mokona]

So kinda inspired by the revived Jerry Alan Johnson thread, I was wondering if we could open up a more general discussion about Taoist magic. What do you guys know about it? What good resources have you come across?

 

Taoist Sorcery is a book that seems to come up frequently in searches. But from what I've seen of it, most of it seems to be from a religious Taoist angle- lots of prayer over alters, making offerings, usage of charms, and appeals to deities. Quite interesting, and no doubt useful for someone subscribing to a religious Taoist system, but I don't know how accessible it is to someone working a less regimented paradigm.

 

Jerry Alan Johnson's books certainly seem to be quite numerous and detailed in terms of the information they contain. Are they practical in terms of usage? Or do they tend to lend themselves more towards someone who is involved with Taoism as a religion, and who is already familiar with rituals to use and deities to appeal to?

 

Daoinfo is another interesting site I've recently come across. But rather than teaching methods to actually use, it moreso (from what I've explored and read) talks about stuff that exists, but doesn't really explain/teach.

 

This book on Maoshan certainly looks interesting, but I've only come across a few excerpts of the text, and most of it seems rather scholarly and historical. I don't know if any methods are included, except as kind of a record like, "this is how they do stuff."

 

That's all I've managed to discover so far Hope to hear from you all as well!

 

Hey, if you PM me so I don't forget, a friend of mine has been practicing something for about 4 months and he's started seeing spirits and become very energy sensitive, and he didn't believe in any of the stuff before. I'll give you the info if your interested.

[AlexKarmazin]

Hi guys I was searching powers for a quite long period of time. I mastered lucid dreaming and some sort of very weak telekinesis. I could pull small objects floating on the water but very slowly. I spend much time on this but it is not what could be called real powers. But when I start practising Taoist meditations I start feeling chi and even see it. But with this, I understand that it is only usual chi and it has big limitations. It could boost immune system or heal small illness but not more. Real power could come only from obtaining original chi (yuan chi). But to start using it you need great progress in spiritual grose. Otherwise you will not be able to see it. So now all my efforts is concentrated on getting original chi. And only after this I will try to experiment with powers. You should keep in mind one more thing, every powers manifestation will consume your original chi and it is not regenerating. You have only limited amount of it and you risk to harm your health if you try powers without possibility to renew your original chi. So first learn how to renew it.

Edited December 5, 2013 by AlexKarmazin