Eye witness accounts of the spirit world

[3bob]

This, however, doesn't follow from the taoist paradigm. Tao-in-stillness is nondualistic. Dualism is the driving engine of locomotion at step two ("tao gives birth to two"), but motion starts already at step one ("tao gives birth to one") -- that's the Fibonacci sequence, the natural progression from oneness to duality and thence to trinity and thence to the "ten thousand things": 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, and so on. Notice the first two numbers in the sequence -- both "ones?" The only thing that differentiates 1 from 1 is its position in relation to the neighboring manifest or unmanifest phenomenon: the first 1 has 0 (nonbeing, transcendence, emptiness, stillness) to its immediate left, the second 1 has 2 (duality, yin-yang, being, manifestation, motion) to its immediate right. 0 is the taoist symbol of wuji. Beyond wuji, which is also known as tao-in-stillness, there's no "beyond" -- there's no "transcendence" of this level, it contains all possible levels, all potentials for all manifestations, while itself being "empty." Where do you go beyond 0? Either nowhere (remain in stillness) or everywhere (move). That's how it works in the taoist system. I don't know of a mathematical way to disprove it -- nor a spiritual one.

 

So between tao-in-stillness and tao-in-motion, pretty much everything is covered, all being and all nonbeing. And the crucial spritual idea (far as I'm concerned) to derive from the fact is this:

 

tao in stillness is not the goal, it is just where the vibration goes when it goes to the left ("to and fro goes the way") -- and its opposite, tao in motion, is where the vibration goes to the right. Man-made left-brain paradigms gravitate toward the 0, woman-made right-brain paradigms, toward yin-yang interplay, by virtue of the natural pull of their proximity. The Way is isomorphic -- goes both ways. You don't get stuck in stillness or in motion, and cultivation toward "transcendence" is going to be a shocking surprise to the transcending party when tao transcends its transcendence and returns, as is its natural property, its "main virtue." Returns to non-transcendence! No way around it! except toward transcendence, where it won't get stuck, however... Beautiful, don't you think?..

 

Taomeow,

Yes, beautiful and very well said!

---------------------------

 

She is moving so very fast that she is standing still everywhere at once.

 

Om

[dawg]

[Birch]

"But understand that it is "your fault", because you accept the role of the victim... "

 

I "get" this conceptually but it bugs me a great deal because can you really say that the child I was "accepted the role of victim"? What else was I supposed to do?

 

These days, I don't have to do that (anymore, thanks to many things, practice being one of them) but why the caveat that one "accepted" such things when one was not in a position to have the option to do otherwise?

 

Isn't it just a device to "clear out" whatever's left of the effects of the abuse I suffered? I mean to really poke one into a state of grief? I have to say I'm confused about taking responsability this far.

 

Any ideas why this is "the done thing"?

[Mokona]

Hello Mokona,

 

The meditation method I use is the main meditation method in Thailand... And I used it because it was the method that my Dharma teacher at the Buddhism monastery taught..........

 

Thanks!

[Maddie]

[The Observer]

Hello Observer,

 

Thanks for the comment.

 

In answer to your question... You will never reach enlightenment just by many lives.

 

Imagine that you wanted to walk to a certain place, but didn't know where it was... you would first need a "road map" or "directions" telling you how to get there... then you would have to exert the effort of walking there, one step at a time until you arrived at your destination... Getting the "road map" or "directions" is quick and easy... the hard part is exerting the effort to walk there step by step... Now imagine that when you start walking, you are walking uphill, but when you reach the top of the hill it is downhill for the rest of the journey... Enlightenment is the destination of your journey, the journey is your spiritual practice.

 

The first part of your journey that is all uphill, is trying to reach "one pointed-ness"... one pointed-ness is the top of the hill... one pointed-ness is call "little nirvana", because it is considered a taste of nirvana... one pointed-ness is a state where your mind is focused down to a single point of awareness, and nothing else exists... not even time... my first experience of one pointed-ness occurred when I was mediating at a Buddhist monastery... It was morning, and I had been meditating for 2 hours, and I looked at the clock and decided to meditate for another hour... I closed my eyes and started meditating again, but after two or three minutes there was a loud noise just outside my kuti (monk's hut) window... I opened my eyes and glanced out the window, and saw that the noise was caused by some workmen chopping up and hauling off some fallen branches... I glanced at the clock and was astounded when I realized that many hours had passes... at first I thought something was wrong with the clock, so i checked my watch but it agreed with the clock... Then I realized that everything I saw looked fresh and beautiful... and I was so energized that I thought I might not sleep for six weeks... and even though I had been sitting in a lotus position for hours without moving a muscle, I had no aches or pains, and my body felt really great... then I realized that my sense of hearing and smell were so sensitive that I could hear and smell every separate individual thing within 100 meters... this state of heightened awareness lasted about a week, before it started to wear off... I can't really explain what it did to my mind, but I can say that it totally changed my life... I began to spontaneously understand things that I had not understood before... I began to see, visit, and explore the spirit realms on a regular basis... I understood greed, anger, & fear; and they simply dropped away, never to return... I reached equanimity... I unified the yin and yang in my mind to create a unity with no conflicts between them... I am so peaceful and serene, that I marvel that I could have reached such a state... I estimate that I am 2/3 of the way to enlightenment... and I know that if I don't reach enlightenment in this lifetime, I will be reincarnated again no more than 6 times... and if I do well in this life, those reincarnations will probably be in high heavenly realms which are really amazing and wonderful places to be... So you can see that after you reach one-pointed-ness, your spiritual development accelerates as if something is pulling you forwards... this is why I say that this part of the spiritual journey is down hill...

 

The purpose of meditation is to develop and hold "concentration"... and to stop that little voice in your head that is constantly talking. Think of that little voice as your worse enemy. Think of it as the voice of the devil, of evil. It is that little voice that creates all of your problems... The first big goal of meditation is to stop that little voice and reach "one pointed-ness"... at this point you have gained control of your mind... now your goal is to "purify the mind", to get rid of all the accumulated garbage that is considered "defilements"... now you use meditation and concentration to investigate your mind to understand and rid your mind of conditioned negative emotions like anger, greed, fear... to develop equanimity... Then if you want to reach enlightenment you must rid your mind of all attachment to your body and personality, and see them as not a real part of your chitta (immortal spirit)... and understand that you have inhabited countless other bodies and minds/personalities, and that your immortal spirit is something beyond all that... and to see the body as a bundle of pain and suffering... So that when your body dies and drops away from your immortal spirit, you will not want another body... and be tempted to reincarnate.

 

Disclaimer... This post is a very simple and short answer to a very large and complex question... an adequate answer could fill volumes of books... But I hope it gives "the observer" more understanding of the process of reaching enlightenment.

 

Thank you for the detailed reply! Question: When I first began meditating I had an experience while I was doing some OM chanting (with Tibetan Buddhist chants playing on a CD as well) and I felt a deep, calm, serene joy; one that made me smile for no particular reason . What do you interpret this as?

[dragonfire]

I think I have been there before also three times now. I could hear my own thoughts while there. When

I was there, I thought I was in the real matrix. Later afterwards, I realize earth is

the matrix! When in the spirit realm, I could walk around and everything felt physical.

I saw human beings. They looked human. I was at somekind of station and people

were waiting in line up some kind of stairs. I went over and asked some people where

the exit was and they just looked at me. I turned around and walked back talking

to myself saying I can't believe I am in the matrix! lol... I kept walking and

looking around wondering... wow! this looks so real! Then as I was walking

and then thinking, I disappeared into this worm hole. It was like I was jumping

to another place just be thought. The thought triggered the worm-hole. Anyways,

I fell in and went sliding down that worm-hole like I was on a slippery slide.

It went on and on for such a long time. I just looked to the left and right going

wow! this is real cool! then I thought to myself... wow, when is this going to

end, because it just kept going for what appeared a long ride. I said to myself

... you know what I'm just going to relax and enjoy myself. After a while,

I flew out into another world and was carried to a farm by a flying tree shrub!

It took me to a farm house and dropped me off. I saw two people working there. I

ended up meeting other people there, some people I knew here on earth. thats

what threw me off. Then I met a girl. At first I didn't recognize her, but the

more I looked, I realized I knew her. Then I lost the contact and woke up.

Whenever I left there, I could always feel the transition coming out.

 

At first I thought they were dreams, but I realized these are not dreams because

they are too vivid, as years later, I still remember the details.

 

I've been in states where I can hear radio waves also, many different channels

going on the sametime. Very weird states.

[dragonfire]

I was wondering if you ever heard about Bashar.org?

 

This guy Daryll channels this advanced ET called Bashar(1 thousand yrs ahead of us) and talks about how when we die, we wake up and realize it was only physical reality. However, he goes on to say we are here

to experience our greatest joy and our lives here has a blueprint created by

the higher self (soul?) that we are to follow. The ET himself said he is quasi

physical and light, and his world is becoming light beings. He has not mentioned anything on enlighenment, but only to follow one's greatest joy. This is what confuses me. Buddhist talk about

getting out, and this ET says, follow our greatest joy. Sitting around meditating

to obtain enlightenment would not be considered the greatest joy for many.

 

Many would like to paint, write, play sports, sing, make love as their greatest joys..

 

What is your take on this?

[Guest paul walter]

Yea I think I agree, because recently I have stopped putting up with people treating me like crap and now everyone is freaking out lol. Today my wife called her brother over because she is getting frustrated with me not letting her treat me like crap, so I guess she thought her brother could do it instead. So when he stated yelling at me, and instead of just putting up with it, rather I got into a Karate stance and gave him the death stare he seemed shocked, and so did my wife. It was like they had this look "this isn't how he usual reacts to this" lol. My father is in a state of shock too as last year I went off on him too, and now we are not speaking to each other which suites me fine, as when we did speak he treated me like crap also. This is also why I am going to go to Texas and put these people out of my life, but all the people who are used to treating me like crap are sure in a state of shock lately lol.

 

 

Yes, it's a bit of a shock to discover the true workings of the world/human psychology when you've got no map beforehand, eh? . Up until now you have been the victim demanded by 'friends' and loved ones. Underneath the social veneer it ain't pretty, so don't worry you're not the only one in this predicament. Most never challenge abuse/authority so they never find out it's true 'dependency' on ones submission. Keep it up, you're uncovering principles that can help build a healthier life , Paul

Edited October 22, 2010 by paul walter

[Gerard]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Gerard

[C T]

 

tao in stillness is not the goal, it is just where the vibration goes when it goes to the left ("to and fro goes the way") -- and its opposite, tao in motion, is where the vibration goes to the right. Man-made left-brain paradigms gravitate toward the 0, woman-made right-brain paradigms, toward yin-yang interplay, by virtue of the natural pull of their proximity. The Way is isomorphic -- goes both ways. You don't get stuck in stillness or in motion, and cultivation toward "transcendence" is going to be a shocking surprise to the transcending party when tao transcends its transcendence and returns, as is its natural property, its "main virtue." Returns to non-transcendence! No way around it! except toward transcendence, where it won't get stuck, however... Beautiful, don't you think?..

Yes, this is one very useful insight, TM... thanks for sharing!

 

Just not sure about the part where you said 'cultivation towards transcendence...'. I guess this depends on what 'level' one is at. In the early stages of practice, it can be a useful idea to promote one's understanding along the lines of 'leaving one point and moving up to another, and another', but after a while, as one moves into practices of a more ultimate nature, one begins to see that even cultivation and practice is already accomplished from the beginning (not that there is any real beginning as in a sort of zero point thing, as such), more like an innate, beginning-less space, if i can use this phrase. At that level, there are no more surprises. Everything is already perfect. This arose not from sense understanding, but thru reflection, observation, distillation and eventually familiarization, which has gradually deepened into pervasive awareness, and reawakening as intuitive knowing, and so now the cares of what to do and not do is being let go of. Primordial purity... do nothing... all is already done... needs are pacified... desires dissolve spontaneously as they arise... Of what good is the chasing after transcendence at this point?

 

This isn't some theory picked from too much reading nor is it a metaphysical speculation... I have, a couple of years ago, given up on these sorts of luxurious indulgences. This is what is unfolding in totality in this present time, with this 'me' being felt as unseparated from this one single, yet simultaneously differentiated, unfolding. The significance of things, the wanting of experience and understanding, the struggle with leveling emotions and assignation of priorities, assertions of self-will pitted against the collective will of those whom i have deemed to be on the outside, which seems all so important in the past, wasting so many years in attempting to juggle it all, in the hope of not losing the balance - well, so what? What has this all got that is so captivating? Life is just what it is, no matter how much we know or dont know. For some, knowing is problematic, for others not knowing is problematic. So, just simply give up, cease struggling, and resisting, and abandon all hope, is what i learnt. Loss is all mine, whatever can be gained, is all yours... all yours. In gratefulness, i accept my destiny, and abandon all searching for the bright shore - its neither dark nor bright, and there is no shore outside of what is inside me. Here, now, i have yet to take a step forward or back, nor moved up or down, in any one direction. Am i here, or am i there? If i dont fret over where i am now, why would i care where i will be tomorrow?

 

Love you and you and you!!

Edited October 22, 2010 by CowTao

[Taomeow]

Yes, this is one very useful insight, TM... thanks for sharing!

 

Just not sure about the part where you said 'cultivation towards transcendence...'. I guess this depends on what 'level' one is at. In the early stages of practice, it can be a useful idea to promote one's understanding along the lines of 'leaving one point and moving up to another, and another', but after a while, as one moves into practices of a more ultimate nature, one begins to see that even cultivation and practice is already accomplished from the beginning (not that there is any real beginning as in a sort of zero point thing, as such), more like an innate, beginning-less space, if i can use this phrase. At that level, there are no more surprises. Everything is already perfect. This arose not from sense understanding, but thru reflection, observation, distillation and eventually familiarization, which has gradually deepened into pervasive awareness, and reawakening as intuitive knowing, and so now the cares of what to do and not do is being let go of. Primordial purity... do nothing... all is already done... needs are pacified... desires dissolve spontaneously as they arise... Of what good is the chasing after transcendence at this point?

 

This isn't some theory picked from too much reading nor is it a metaphysical speculation... I have, a couple of years ago, given up on these sorts of luxurious indulgences. This is what is unfolding in totality in this present time, with this 'me' being felt as unseparated from this one single, yet simultaneously differentiated, unfolding. The significance of things, the wanting of experience and understanding, the struggle with leveling emotions and assignation of priorities, assertions of self-will pitted against the collective will of those whom i have deemed to be on the outside, which seems all so important in the past, wasting so many years in attempting to juggle it all, in the hope of not losing the balance - well, so what? What has this all got that is so captivating? Life is just what it is, no matter how much we know or dont know. For some, knowing is problematic, for others not knowing is problematic. So, just simply give up, cease struggling, and resisting, and abandon all hope, is what i learnt. Loss is all mine, whatever can be gained, is all yours... all yours. In gratefulness, i accept my destiny, and abandon all searching for the bright shore - its neither dark nor bright, and there is no shore outside of what is inside me. Here, now, i have yet to take a step forward or back, nor moved up or down, in any one direction. Am i here, or am i there? If i dont fret over where i am now, why would i care where i will be tomorrow?

 

Love you and you and you!!

 

Awww... I don't feel like arguing, and I love your words and you!

[Birch]

This, however, doesn't follow from the taoist paradigm. Tao-in-stillness is nondualistic. Dualism is the driving engine of locomotion at step two ("tao gives birth to two"), but motion starts already at step one ("tao gives birth to one") -- that's the Fibonacci sequence, the natural progression from oneness to duality and thence to trinity and thence to the "ten thousand things": 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, and so on. Notice the first two numbers in the sequence -- both "ones?" The only thing that differentiates 1 from 1 is its position in relation to the neighboring manifest or unmanifest phenomenon: the first 1 has 0 (nonbeing, transcendence, emptiness, stillness) to its immediate left, the second 1 has 2 (duality, yin-yang, being, manifestation, motion) to its immediate right. 0 is the taoist symbol of wuji. Beyond wuji, which is also known as tao-in-stillness, there's no "beyond" -- there's no "transcendence" of this level, it contains all possible levels, all potentials for all manifestations, while itself being "empty." Where do you go beyond 0? Either nowhere (remain in stillness) or everywhere (move). That's how it works in the taoist system. I don't know of a mathematical way to disprove it -- nor a spiritual one.

 

So between tao-in-stillness and tao-in-motion, pretty much everything is covered, all being and all nonbeing. And the crucial spritual idea (far as I'm concerned) to derive from the fact is this:

 

tao in stillness is not the goal, it is just where the vibration goes when it goes to the left ("to and fro goes the way") -- and its opposite, tao in motion, is where the vibration goes to the right. Man-made left-brain paradigms gravitate toward the 0, woman-made right-brain paradigms, toward yin-yang interplay, by virtue of the natural pull of their proximity. The Way is isomorphic -- goes both ways. You don't get stuck in stillness or in motion, and cultivation toward "transcendence" is going to be a shocking surprise to the transcending party when tao transcends its transcendence and returns, as is its natural property, its "main virtue." Returns to non-transcendence! No way around it! except toward transcendence, where it won't get stuck, however... Beautiful, don't you think?..

 

Beautiful in theory and in practice. Thanks TaoMeow

[Brian]

...

[Maddie]

Yes, it's a bit of a shock to discover the true workings of the world/human psychology when you've got no map beforehand, eh? . Up until now you have been the victim demanded by 'friends' and loved ones. Underneath the social veneer it ain't pretty, so don't worry you're not the only one in this predicament. Most never challenge abuse/authority so they never find out it's true 'dependency' on ones submission. Keep it up, you're uncovering principles that can help build a healthier life , Paul

 

I don't want to get this thread too off topic, but then again if you factor in how everything in the energetic/spiritual plane affects the physical then this ties in together nicely. I have been working a lot on my organs lately, and from what I have noticed working on two organs in particular has helped me to stop putting up with bad treatment, the lungs and the kidneys. The lungs are about our boundries, our personal boundries in life, as well as separating oxygen from carbon dioxide in the physical. We need oxygen, but carbon dioxicde is harmful. So too in when it comes to people, people who are kind to us are great, but toxic people we need to "exhale" out. The Kidneys are the organ of either fear or wisdom/clammess/strength. The kidneys have to be very vigilant as to ensure that they remove all the amonia from our blood, so they are the paranoid organ. They also need to remove posionous people from our lives, but if they are frozen in fear they can not do their jobs. If this is the case we are too fearful to do what would be best for us, so we remain with people posioning, we are frozen in our place in life, as the kidneys element is water, and season is winter, tempuratre is cold. Only when our kidneys are clean and functioning can they do their jobs calmly of filtering out what ever it is in our lives that are poisioning us.

This would explain all those cases of one partner continuing to live with an abusive one even though they know their partner is bad for them. They "freeze" with fear. The lungs feed the kidneys, the lungs other positive virtue is courage. When there is enough courage in the lungs, this feeds the kidneys with good energy, so that they will not be frozen up anymore, but will feel calm and gentel, being fed by courage to remove what ever it is that poisions us from our systems.

[suninmyeyes]

"But understand that it is "your fault", because you accept the role of the victim... "

 

I "get" this conceptually but it bugs me a great deal because can you really say that the child I was "accepted the role of victim"? What else was I supposed to do?

 

These days, I don't have to do that (anymore, thanks to many things, practice being one of them) but why the caveat that one "accepted" such things when one was not in a position to have the option to do otherwise?

 

Isn't it just a device to "clear out" whatever's left of the effects of the abuse I suffered? I mean to really poke one into a state of grief? I have to say I'm confused about taking responsability this far.

 

Any ideas why this is "the done thing"?

Hello Kate,

I am answering you becouse what you wrote resonates with me.As there is something of similar sort I had been resolving/letting go off/trying to understand recently,past few years.

Uh, a hard knot.

Had similar thoughts to you,not knowing how far should I go with my responsability and being extremly angry for having to be responsable and having no choice as a child.

It is like seeing all todays relationships and general relating to life and seeing where they stem from ,but still not being able to change it.

And now I feel responsability all the way is the way to be as dwag says.

It is empowering,the concept works for me.

Or what about this story Marblehead wrote in another thread about a prisoner sitting in prison cell for ten years ,only to find out that the doors were open .

Edited October 22, 2010 by suninmyeyes

[3bob]

Yes, this is one very useful insight, TM... thanks for sharing!

 

Just not sure about the part where you said 'cultivation towards transcendence...'. I guess this depends on what 'level' one is at. In the early stages of practice, it can be a useful idea to promote one's understanding along the lines of 'leaving one point and moving up to another, and another', but after a while, as one moves into practices of a more ultimate nature, one begins to see that even cultivation and practice is already accomplished from the beginning (not that there is any real beginning as in a sort of zero point thing, as such), more like an innate, beginning-less space, if i can use this phrase. At that level, there are no more surprises. Everything is already perfect. This arose not from sense understanding, but thru reflection, observation, distillation and eventually familiarization, which has gradually deepened into pervasive awareness, and reawakening as intuitive knowing, and so now the cares of what to do and not do is being let go of. Primordial purity... do nothing... all is already done... needs are pacified... desires dissolve spontaneously as they arise... Of what good is the chasing after transcendence at this point?

 

This isn't some theory picked from too much reading nor is it a metaphysical speculation... I have, a couple of years ago, given up on these sorts of luxurious indulgences. This is what is unfolding in totality in this present time, with this 'me' being felt as unseparated from this one single, yet simultaneously differentiated, unfolding. The significance of things, the wanting of experience and understanding, the struggle with leveling emotions and assignation of priorities, assertions of self-will pitted against the collective will of those whom i have deemed to be on the outside, which seems all so important in the past, wasting so many years in attempting to juggle it all, in the hope of not losing the balance - well, so what? What has this all got that is so captivating? Life is just what it is, no matter how much we know or dont know. For some, knowing is problematic, for others not knowing is problematic. So, just simply give up, cease struggling, and resisting, and abandon all hope, is what i learnt. Loss is all mine, whatever can be gained, is all yours... all yours. In gratefulness, i accept my destiny, and abandon all searching for the bright shore - its neither dark nor bright, and there is no shore outside of what is inside me. Here, now, i have yet to take a step forward or back, nor moved up or down, in any one direction. Am i here, or am i there? If i dont fret over where i am now, why would i care where i will be tomorrow?

 

Love you and you and you!!

 

Hello Cowtao,

 

My take in reflection to your post:

 

Love does not abandon hope,

The Buddha does not abandon the first jhana,

And enlightenment does not abandon its nature as joy.

 

Om

[dawg]

Dawg,

 

would you mind telling me what is there exactly that you see in the spirit world?

 

Thanks!

 

L1

 

... I am in the spirit world… I am high above the earth, flying over an arid landscape, it looks like the American west, like the New Mexico bad lands... There is a range of mountains below me and some flat land on either side. A movement below catches my eye, and without any conscious effort, I zoom in on it. I then realize that I have “telescopic vision”, and can zoom in and look at things below as if I were only a few feet away. The movement I saw was a mouse foraging for seeds under a bush. When it would find a seed, it would sit up and eat it… I then zoom back out and look at a wider view. Another movement catches my eye. I see a group of men on horseback riding fast. I zoom in on them. In front of them is one horseman who is looking at the ground carefully as he rides. I understand that he is leading a “posse” of men following the trail of an outlaw... I then zoom out again, and scan the area in front of them… the posse are heading towards a low mountain pass, and on the other side of the pass, I see a lone horseman riding as fast as he can, so I zoom in to see him up close… he is slapping the flank of his horse with the palm of his right hand, to spur it on. This is obviously who the posse is chasing…. Then my spirit guide says in my right ear, that we need to go on now, we need to hurry or we might be late…

 

So now I am flying alone over the sea, then up a coast line which is to my left... the land is flat and covered with grass, and where it meets the sea, it drops straight down into sea (like the white chalk cliffs at Dover, England)… I see a group of about 8 people flying ahead of me. I know that I am supposed to be part of that group. I try to catch up with them, but no matter how fast I fly, they stay ahead of me… Up ahead where the land slopes down to the sea, there is a small seaside village of medieval stone houses built around a public square… attached to one corner of the square is a small harbor for boats, protected by a stone breakwater. The group of people ahead of me land where the port joins one corner of the square, and are hurrying diagonally across the square, as I am landing. There are no boats in the harbor, or people, or animals in the village. It is as if the village has been abandoned, or as if it were just a stage set for a movie. There is none of the clutter of small things that “real” villages have, there are no statues or monuments, no fountain or street lights, no benches or signs, no rubbish ... I want to explore and look at the village, but the group that I am following hurry diagonally across the square and are disappearing down a street, so I hurry across the square and follow them… The street turns right and becomes a road that climbs up behind the houses of the village, so that I can look down into the village square. When the road reached the sea, it turns left and follows the coast… the road goes around a point where I have a good view of the sea… although it gives off no heat (physical sensation), the sun is shining and glinting off the waves of the sea below, giving the sea a sparkling effect. I can see and zoom in on two sailing ships in full sail that are sailing down the coast side by side. (the ships look like sailing ships of the 1600’s or 1700’s). I can see men in the rigging working the sails, and hear them laughing and singing, and shouting to one another from ship to ship. It looks like they are having a friendly race, and having a good time… Ahead of me on the road, I see that the group that I am following have turned left away from the sea, and are about to enter a small (1950’s California modern looking) building of one floor. The front of the building is made of vertical white panels, except for the door that is flanked on either side by “poodle trees”. (a topiary : a shrub clipped so that it’s foliage forms three spheres, one above the other on a single trunk.)… the building is bad enough, but I can’t believe that I am seeing “poodle trees” in a heavenly realm… I open the door and go inside. Stretching out in front of me is a large wide corridor that seems to vanish to a point in the distance. I can see the group I am following is already hurrying down the corridor, so I hurry after them. As I hurry down the corridor after the group, I notice that the corridor and whole building keeps changing from one historic style of architecture to another. One minute it looks like a roman building, the next minute a Chinese building, the next minute it is another style, then another style, and so on. So I stop moving, and the building stops changing. So I walk backwards for a few steps, and the building starts changing again. I wonder if the building would always appear the same when viewed from the same place, so I move forward and then backwards to where I had started. As I move forward the building changes, when I move back to where I started the building changes again, but it does not go back to where it started... I now have to hurry to catch up to the group. I pass other corridors that cross the corridor I am traveling down, and they seem to go forever as well. All the corridors are lined with doors, and through each door is a different reality... I can see out of windows of the corridor into large courtyards that are surrounded by building facades of three and four floors. The group is far ahead of me, so I have to catch up with them… Then the group turns left into a doorway. I follow them and find myself in a large room. There is another door opposite the one I have entered, leading to a second room, the group have gone into the second room. The first room I have entered looks like a room out of a Dutch painting from the middle of the 1600’s. I stop here and begin looking at the things in the room. The floor is paved with a checkerboard of large black and white tiles. The room is richly but austerely furnished with heavy wooden furniture. There is a big (dining?) table with chairs around it to one side with a brass chandelier hanging above it, and some wooden sideboards, cabinets, and chairs against the walls. In one corner is a globe with a map on it, sitting in a wooden stand. I look at it but can’t recognize any feature on it, it is not a map of earth… Nothing in the room is out of place, there is not a speck of dust on anything, nor is there a single mark, ding, or dent on anything. Everything in the room is spotless and in perfect condition. There is only one window which I walk over to and look out of onto a landscape of grassy rolling hills with some trees… On the wall next to the window is a big mirror in a frame. As I am looking at the mirror, I realize there is a drop of water on it. Somehow amidst all of the order and perfection in the room, the drop of water looks out of place, so that without thinking I reach out and wipe it off with my finger tip. When I do, the drop of water smears into the number 1662, which I assume means the year 1662. I then go into the second room where the group is loitering about.

 

The second room is totally different from the first room. Whereas the first room is formal, orderly, and spotlessly clean… the second room is rustic and disorderly. It is like an old stone hunting lodge, with a rough stone floor. There is a big stone fireplace in the far left corner, and a heavy wooden barred door to the outside opposite the door I enter through, and a window between the two. The furniture is rustic and utilitarian, and seemingly placed without order. There are boxes and objects randomly stacked on the furniture. This is the first time I have seen the group that I have been following up close. They are very passive, serious, and keep to themselves. But there are now two dog like beings or dog people with them, who have floppy ears and are covered with curly fur. Sometimes the “dog people” stand on four legs and are more dog like, sometimes they stand up on two legs and speak (telepathically) very eloquently like men of knowledge. It is obvious that the two dog people are my guides for whatever is going on here…

It is time for everyone to sleep, so we all lie down in a pile in front of the fireplace, on a big mat. The two furry dog people lie on top of everyone to act as a blanket. It is cold and there is a fire in the fireplace but it gives off no heat (physical sensation).

 

After a while we get up again, and one of the dog people draws my attention to a wooden chest sitting on a table in the middle of the room. The chest looks like a big wooden cigar humidor. He tells me to open the chest and look inside. I open it and inside are racks of metal bars that look like brass name plates, each with a name engraved on it. There seems to be every language of earth, plus symbols and glyphs that I could not recognize as being from earth. The dog person tells me that the racks fold up and out of the chest exposing more racks with more bars, which I fold up and out exposing more racks and bars, which fold up and out exposing more racks and bars, and so on. The inside of the chest is much larger than the outside of the chest. I am scanning the names on the bars as I unfold the racks out of the chest, when I see a bar with my name on it. I pick up the bar in my right hand and hold it, feeling it. It responds to my touch, I can feel it stir. The dog person tells me I can move objects around with the bar in my hand. I aim the bar at what looks like a coffee mug sitting on a table about 3 meters away, and move it sideways, then I move it to different places around the table. The dog person then says I can pick objects up with the bar, and move them from place to place. So then I start picking objects up and moving them from place to place around the room. I am like a kid with a new toy, playing with the bar and seeing what I can do with it… then I realize that it has suddenly gotten very dark out side, and there is a heavy sense of foreboding and evil. The group of people I had followed to the room, and the two dog people are now cowering in a group over by the fireplace, and fearfully staring at the door to the outside.. I glance at the heavy wooden door that leads to the outside, and see that the heavy bar that secures the door is slowly sliding open. I can sense that there is something very evil and deadly dangerous on the other side of the door trying to get into the room. Alarmed, I instantly aim the “name plate” in my hand, at the bar on the door, and push the bar to the door closed again, and hold it closed. I now find myself engaged in a contest of strength, with me holding the bar of the door closed, while some unknown evil on the outside is trying to force the bar to the door open. With great effort, I am managing to hold the bar of the door closed. But now I see that whatever it is outside trying to get in, is creating a second small “peep door” in the top of the door (the kind of small door that is used to peep through from the inside, to see who is outside knocking on the door). I can’t hold the bar to the door closed, and stop the little door from forming at the same time… and the bar from the chest with my name on it, that I am using to hold the door closed, is burning up and looks like it is about to be finished. I realize I don’t have enough power by myself to hold back whatever is on the other side of the door, I need help… I want to open the chest and put my left hand on the bars, but there is no time to do so. As the little door flies open, I slap my left hand on the wooden top of the chest, then as a horrific head with protruding teeth on a long neck comes lunging through the little door at me, I “shoot” it with the bar in my right hand blowing it’s head off… the head lay on the floor with about a meter of neck attached to it. Instantly the darkness and the pall of evil lifted. The group of people who were cowering over by the fireplace, leap up and rush to the door, unbolt it, then rush outside to look at the body. One of the group that I was following runs back inside and excitedly asks me if I want to see the body. I say “no, I don’t want to see the body, and would you please take the head outside, it shouldn't be left in here” He grabs the head by the neck and drags it outside… Then the group comes back inside, taking no further notice of me, and go out into the corridor, and depart down the corridor back the way they came...

 

I am now alone. Out the window I can see a large herd of large deer like animals with antlers, grazing in the near distance. They have instantly appeared after the death of the demon… The two “dog people” come back inside. The one who showed me the chest with the racks of bars, asks if I will do them a favor. They want me to catch and hold one of the deer like animals for them, and they will run out and get it. He is the dog man who showed me the chest with the bars, and how to use the bars, so that I was able kill the demon when it came. So I feel that I owe it to him to catch the deer for them. So I start looking for the bar with my name on it, but the dog man says, “Oh, you don’t need the bar anymore, you can use your hand”. So I test to see if I can move things with my hand, and I can… So I say that I am ready to catch a deer for them, and they excitedly run outside on in anticipation. I can catch a deer by pulling it down and holding it pinned to the ground. On my first try, I try to catch one deer but catch two. When I try to let one loose, both get loose and run off. On the second try I get two deer again, but this time I hold them both until the two dog men swiftly run out to them. Then I turn away from the window, and go back to the corridor, the way I came in... At this point I just wanted to get back to the physical world, and try to understand what had happened… So by wishing to go back to the physical world, I am instantly there.

 

When I was in the spirit world and all this was happening, my mind was empty, I didn’t think about anything. I didn’t think to ask my spirit guide, “where are we going ?”, and “what might we be late for, if we didn’t hurry ?”… but when I got back to the physical world, it seemed blatantly obvious to me that I was set up, that I was brought to this place in the spirit world for the sole purpose of “killing the demon”… everyone else seemed to know what was going on… but no one told me where I was going, or what I was expected to do … I was duped into killing the demon. Why was I brought to the spirit world to kill a demon ? Was I being “tested” ? Who was testing me ? Was the demon real ? Was I in danger of being killed by the demon ? Did I really kill the demon ? What or who was the demon ? Was the demon a part of me ? Was it a trick of my spirit guide ? Was it a projection created by the Devas ?… should I have caught the deer for the two dog people ?... Had the demon escaped from the demon realm, and somehow entered this heavenly realm, and was terrorizing areas of it ? When I arrived the whole landscape and village were deserted, all the people and animals were gone… but when I killed the demon, large herds of grazing animals suddenly appeared… but I didn’t return to the village again to see if people returned there… also when I killed the demon, everyone in the room who had been fearfully huddled by the fireplace, excitedly jumped up and rushed to the door opening it to see the body of the demon outside… and one of them rushed back in and excitedly asked me if I wanted to see the body… why would they be scared, then excited, unless I had really killed the demon.

 

And why was my name on a bar, in a wooden box filled with similar bars, in this room, in this building, in this heavenly realm ? This puzzles me the most.

 

I still don’t understand what was really happening.

 

 

Metta,

Edited October 22, 2010 by dawg

[dawg]

Yea I think I agree, because recently I have stopped putting up with people treating me like crap and now everyone is freaking out lol. Today my wife called her brother over because she is getting frustrated with me not letting her treat me like crap, so I guess she thought her brother could do it instead. So when he stated yelling at me, and instead of just putting up with it, rather I got into a Karate stance and gave him the death stare he seemed shocked, and so did my wife. It was like they had this look "this isn't how he usual reacts to this" lol. My father is in a state of shock too as last year I went off on him too, and now we are not speaking to each other which suites me fine, as when we did speak he treated me like crap also. This is also why I am going to go to Texas and put these people out of my life, but all the people who are used to treating me like crap are sure in a state of shock lately lol.

 

Hello Dmattwads,

 

If you act like a "victim", you will attract "abusers" because they like the way you act...

 

If you act like the person you want to be, and follow your heart... You will attract people who like the way you act...

 

After some time passes, and your father realizes that you really are not going to let him treat you like crap... and you start talking again... you might find that he treats you with great respect, because you stood up to him... and that (he will not say it to your face, but) he is proud of you, and brags about you to his friends...

 

good luck, I wish you the best.

 

Metta,

[The Way Is Virtue]

Edited October 23, 2010 by The Way Is Virtue

[suninmyeyes]

[YAN]

Hello Dwag,

 

Very interesting thread,I've had my share of esoteric experiences in LOS and know for a fact that many Thai monks are really versed into magic(white / black).

 

I'm based in Bangkok but travelling all over Thailand as part of my professional obligations.

 

You mentioned you're staying south of the Mekong (Isarn???). Anyhow it would be nice to have chat in real life. Let me know .

 

Yan

[dawg]

Hi dawg. This seems to be a simplistic interpretation. I am wondering, do you really think the Buddha was referring to the 'spirit world' in the reference to the 'finger pointing to the moon'? It would seem that if that is all that was meant, then he could just simply say, "hey, there is a spirit world that exists beyond this world that you can't see. It is just another relative realm, just as this one is". Since the Buddha could only hint at what he was actually referring to, is it not more likely that the Buddha was actually hinting at something that is beyond words and concepts and rational understanding, and thus it can only be hinted at? Also, please correct me if I am wrong but, from what I understand, Buddha did not preach a religion at all, but instead just gave lectures on dharmma, i.e., ways to achieve enlightenment? Was it not actually later followers who created a religion around the Buddha or other Buddhas?

I am not trying to be contentious here at all, just curious if this is really how you see things, or am I misunderstanding you?

 

By the way, I thought your description of your meditation technique was very clear. So were you describing a way to meditate, or were you expounding religious doctrine?

 

 

 

Hello "The Way Is Virtue",

 

The meditation technique I described was just a way to meditate that I learned at a Theravada monastery, and it works for me... I see it as the "Physics of the mind", simple cause and effect... I am a very "spiritual" person, but I am not "religious"... To me "religion" contains too much dead wood and bull shit... This is why I wrote the original post explaining that "religion" and the "spirit world" are two completely different things... Most religious people are obsessed with the picky little details (dogma, rituals, politics, other people's morality, etc) of their religion, and are not even aware that "spirituality" exists, it is just a word... if they had a spiritual experience, they would run to the doctor and get some pills to make sure it didn't happen again...

 

You are correct in saying that the Buddha was not preaching a religion... and you are correct that the Buddha was no talking about "just" any old part of the spirit world... but remember that the Buddhas dwell in the "Buddha realm" which is the highest realm in the spirit world, so the spirit world includes the goal of enlightenment... but it also includes the lesser goals for people who are unable to reach enlightenment in this lifetime... The Buddha's teachings were for both monks and lay people.

 

There is only the physical world, and the spirit world, there is no other place to exist in our universe... the spirit world (and the physical world) is a cosmic reality, real beyond any doubt,from the lowest hell realm, up to the Buddha realm... religion and the spirit world are two completely seperate things... religion is just a man made concept, trying to describe the spirit world (which includes enlightenment)... religion is not "the goal", it is just a signpost (a finger) pointing to the the spirit world (moon) where all of the spiritual goals (destinations that we go to, when our body dies) are located... The ideal goal is nirvana, but few people will reach nirvana in this life... but everyone can strive to reach the highest level of attainment (goal) that they can in this life, and thereby reach a higher level in the spirit world, and that is a valid goal as well... The whole idea of spiritual attainment, is too achieve upwards mobility in the spirit world. Nirvana (enlightenment) is just the final goal, the final attainment.

 

If what I wrote seemed too simplistic, I plead guilty as charged... When writing about spiritual stuff, I never know if I am being too simplistic, or beating a dead horse... please forgive me for my sins, I am not perfect, I might be just a dawg but my intentions are good.

 

Thanks for the comment. You are keeping me honest.

 

Metta,

[dawg]

Hello dwag,

Ive enjoyed reading your post.

How did you meet your spirit guide?Did he just come to you or you were asking for one?

In out of body travels ,someone is always with me -same person always comes ,but I cant see how he looks like for real. No matter how hard I try,becouse my mind is still coloured .

 

Hello Suninmyeyes,

 

One day when I was in the spirit world, a voice on my right shoulder started talking to me... I thought "voice on my right shoulder talking in my right ear ??? ... that's my "guardian angel" !!! ... it was a male voice that sounded very trustworthy... but I couldn't see him... I have assumed he is from one of the higher realms where spirits are pure mind with no body... I never know if he is there unless he talks...

 

Metta,

[The Way Is Virtue]

Hi dawg. Thanks for the clarification on your views. Good luck with your practice!