Eye witness accounts of the spirit world

[dawg]

[Maddie]

Hey Dawg I loved that answer, it was not just one of the best answers I've heard on Tao Bums, but in my life I believe .

 

Just the other day I had an experience about that little voice of conditioning that you were talking about. For most of my adult life when ever I see the typical busty hollywood type "blonde" bomb shell I find myself getting really nervous. So the other day I saw one of these and when I began to feel this way I asked myself why. What I discovered is that these girls are really not my type, BUT due to my father, the media, and most other media influenced males I have been around I was made to think that the highest calling in life was to get one of those kind of girls. I had never really stopped before and asked myself if I truely liked that type of girl, I had just assumed that I did cause that is what that voice in my mind told me I did, which turned out to not be me, but all of that conditioning.

[RiverSnake]

Hey Ndawg i've heard from various people that there are various dangers associated with astral projection and it can be dangerous for your health if you don't have a certain "foundation" built before you try to do so.

 

-I'm personally not very interested in OBEs but i know many people who are and i would like to be-able to espouse some of the risks of attempting astral projection to people who are trying it so that they can do so safely or at-least know the risks.

 

-I was wondering if you could fill this gap in my knowledge?

Edited November 21, 2010 by Tao Apprentice

[dragonfire]

I had an experience that turned out to be almost, i'm not sure but almost had some

bad consequences. I found myself in what I suspect was the other realm or spirit

realm that dwag talks about. I could walk around in it. But somehow I ended up

slipping out of the state. Once out, I tried to get back in. I was able to

get back in, but for some reason, I could not move around in that realm as

I wanted. Through struggling I ended up out again. Basically, at the time

I was thinking, cool I"m in a different realm, I wonder if I can have my

fantansies come true by acting out them here, like pick up a woman and have

sexual relations with her to test what was happening.

 

That never happened because I came out of the state. So tried again to get back into that state.

The next time I tried, my body went into a seizure. I was spirit in my body

watching my body twitch and go into seizure. As I was watching, I was

going, oops I think I wasn't supposed to do that. I was still in some

trance state when this happened. Eventually I came out of it completely.

I"m still ok, but man, I was literally watching or experiencing my body

twitching or blockages. Can't really explain it.

[Everything]

Hello Dmattwads,

 

I don’t get lonely, because...

 

 

 

 

..., because you used them so much…

 

Metta,

 

Thanks for such intense commentation on your topics. If you truely are a very happy person, I am only in the position of extracting wisdom from your words.

 

The voices of our thought our indeed mostly not of my own, just like you described. Now I was wondering, when I turned those voices down I become so dull and uncreative. Empty... How come? I'm doing something wrong?

 

I actually see the thought as it arises and become a witness to them, I find out who's voice it is in my imagination and then in between there is only silence, just awareness and observing and my focus. What is the purpose of this?

Edited November 22, 2010 by Everything

[Everything]

I had an experience that turned out to be almost, i'm not sure but almost had some

bad consequences. I found myself in what I suspect was the other realm or spirit

realm that dwag talks about. I could walk around in it. But somehow I ended up

slipping out of the state. Once out, I tried to get back in. I was able to

get back in, but for some reason, I could not move around in that realm as

I wanted. Through struggling I ended up out again. Basically, at the time

I was thinking, cool I"m in a different realm, I wonder if I can have my

fantansies come true by acting out them here, like pick up a woman and have

sexual relations with her to test what was happening.

 

That never happened because I came out of the state. So tried again to get back into that state.

The next time I tried, my body went into a seizure. I was spirit in my body

watching my body twitch and go into seizure. As I was watching, I was

going, oops I think I wasn't supposed to do that. I was still in some

trance state when this happened. Eventually I came out of it completely.

I"m still ok, but man, I was literally watching or experiencing my body

twitching or blockages. Can't really explain it.

 

These are perceptions of all the diffrent input senses you receive as your brain goes to sleep, only you were aware of it and also recall the experience. I can imagine how exciting the experience must have been for you. It requires disciplined practice however to gain control over your perceptions within the dream. Mostly, your consciousness is turned off during the dream because it receives no meaningful sensory input to process and it remains off during the dream itself. It can be really hard to practice becoming a lucid dreamer if it is hard to remain aware within your dreams in the first place.

[dawg]

Thanks for such intense commentation on your topics. If you truely are a very happy person, I am only in the position of extracting wisdom from your words.

 

The voices of our thought our indeed mostly not of my own, just like you described. Now I was wondering, when I turned those voices down I become so dull and uncreative. Empty... How come? I'm doing something wrong?

 

I actually see the thought as it arises and become a witness to them, I find out who's voice it is in my imagination and then in between there is only silence, just awareness and observing and my focus. What is the purpose of this?

 

Hello Everything,

 

You said, "I actually see the thought as it arises and become a witness to them, I find out who's voice it is in my imagination and then in between there is only silence, just awareness and observing and my focus. What is the purpose of this?"

 

What you describe is very very very good... it is exactly what you should be doing... you are "investigating" your mind, and developing "wisdom"... You are getting rid of the "junk thinking", that you have been conditioned with... you are purifying your mind... keep on doing it and it will take you to the level of "equanimity"... you will be "mr. Teflon", and all the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" will slide off of you, like water off a ducks back... nothing will get you "upset" ever again...

 

After you reach "equanimity", the next stage is to develop "non-self"... to get rid of your "personality" (name, race, age, other peoples expectations of you), and break out of all your limitations, so that you can "be" who ever you want to be, "do" whatever you want to do... to "act", instead of "react"... real freedom...

 

If you have not already done so, this is how to get rid of your "anger"... when you see anger arising, realize that no one can make you angry except yourself... that you get angry because you "decide" to get angry (and cling to it)... once you realize that someone that is trying to make you angry, is doing so as a "control trip", and that if you get angry you are letting them control you... you can refuse to accept their anger... you can "decide" not to get angry, instead of "deciding" to get angry... it is that simple, to rid yourself of anger...

 

Metta,

[三江源]

.

Edited March 30, 2015 by 三江源

[dawg]

Hey Dawg I loved that answer, it was not just one of the best answers I've heard on Tao Bums, but in my life I believe .

 

Just the other day I had an experience about that little voice of conditioning that you were talking about. For most of my adult life when ever I see the typical busty hollywood type "blonde" bomb shell I find myself getting really nervous. So the other day I saw one of these and when I began to feel this way I asked myself why. What I discovered is that these girls are really not my type, BUT due to my father, the media, and most other media influenced males I have been around I was made to think that the highest calling in life was to get one of those kind of girls. I had never really stopped before and asked myself if I truely liked that type of girl, I had just assumed that I did cause that is what that voice in my mind told me I did, which turned out to not be me, but all of that conditioning.

 

Hello Dmattwads,

 

What you describe is exactly what you should be doing... that is what is called, "investigating" the mind to develop "wisdom"... congratulations... you are on your way to becoming a man of wisdom...

 

Metta,

[dawg]

Hi Dawg, glad you are back!

 

I wanted to ask you about your thoughts or experiences on the phenomenon in meditation when one gets stuck just spectating the silence/emptiness.

 

At this point I feel spectating is utterly redundant and would like to disapear entirely, as on those occasions when the time disappears.

 

I dont know the why or the how of why sometimes I get stuck spectating, as if my consciousness is perched in an alert mode in a sea of emptiness.

 

Do you have anything to say, either theoretically or - hopefully - practically, about the difference between the spectating and the disapearing?!

 

Hello Cat,

 

You said “At this point I feel spectating is utterly redundant and would like to disapear entirely, as on those occasions when the time disappears. I dont know the why or the how of why sometimes I get stuck spectating, as if my consciousness is perched in an alert mode in a sea of emptiness. Do you have anything to say, either theoretically or - hopefully - practically, about the difference between the spectating and the disapearing?!”…

 

You have reached one pointedness… your level of attainment is a “treasure”, it will be your new base line… you will never lose it… even if you died tomorrow, you would carry that attainment with you to your next life…

 

You have finished stage 1 (developing Samadhi), and should proceed to stage 2 (developing Equanimity)… stage 3 is (developing Non-Self… Non-Duality)… stage 4 is to break through to full enlightenment.

 

Your “concentration” (Samadhi) is very well developed … the goal of the meditation up until now, was to develop the strength of your concentration… so that you could do stage 2… You now should use the concentration that you have developed, TO “INVESTIGATE” YOUR MIND, SO AS TO DEVELOP “WISDOM”… to remove all the “defilements” (desire, aversion, & delusion) from your mind so as to purify it… and reach “equanimity…

 

DESIRE & AVERSION… I WANT & I DON’T WANT… PLEASURE & PAIN… LOVE & HATE... you investigate your mind to see and understand how “dissatisfaction” (Dukka or unhappiness) is caused by “wanting” & “not wanting”… that everything “arises” & “passes”… that everything is “impermanent”… that what you “want” (desire), is only temporary and will pass away… and that what you “don’t want” (aversion), is only temporary and will also pass away… that “desire” and “aversion” are the two extremes, on either side of the “middle way”… that desire & aversion are the two sides of “delusion” that causes us to be dissatisfied or unhappy… that “delusion” is that little voice of our conditioning, in our mind that tells us what we are supposed to “desire”, or have “aversion” to… that once we let go of “desire” & “aversion”, we discover that we can enjoy the things we like even more than before, and the things that we don’t like don’t bother us any more…

 

Now that you can control your mind, you can reprogram your mind, and clean out all the “junk thinking” that other people have filled it with… it is time to start interrogating that little voice in your head… choose a topic you want to “investigate”, then start asking that little voice “why” should I do this or that, or why should I like or dislike this or that… or think this or that… and when it gives you an answer, don’t accept it, demand another answer, and another answer, and another answer, until it falls silent… you can interrogate and investigate anything in your mind or body that seems relevant to you… you can even ask one lobe (Yin) of the brain to answer a question, then ask the other lobe (Yang) if it agrees, and why or why not… no holds barred… anything goes…

 

I just posted this in another comment, but it is relevant to this comment so I am repeating it… if you have not already done so, this is how to get rid of your "anger"... when you see anger arising, realize that no one can make you angry except yourself... that you get angry because you "decide" to get angry... once you realize that someone who is trying to make you angry, is doing so as a "control trip", and that if you get angry you are letting them control you... you can refuse to accept their anger... you can "decide" not to get angry, instead of "deciding" to get angry... it is that simple, to rid yourself of anger...

 

You can even control physical pain by investigating it, and disassociating your awareness from your body… for example, if your leg hurts… you can say, “my leg is just a piece of meat, it can’t feel anything… so who is feeling the pain ?... my brain is just a piece of meat, it can’t feel pain?…. and I am a spirit, I am just awareness, and spirits can’t feel physical sensations ?... you disconnect the pain from your awareness… when I go to the dentist I pretend that my body is a car, and my awareness (spirit) is the driver of the car… my open mouth is the raised hood of the car, and the dentist is a mechanic working on the motor… I just sit in the car meditating on something far away, until the mechanic is finished…

 

Practical application…

 

1)… “to disapear entirely, as on those occasions when the time disappears.”… this is one pointedness, all that exists is the one point of your “awareness”… when you hear about a yogi or monk who sits in meditation for several days without sleeping, this is what he is doing… when you hear about a yogi or monk who goes for a month without sleeping, he is sitting like this at night, instead of sleeping… one pointedness can energize you better than sleeping… it is a good way to recharge your batteries… when you go to sleep at night in your bed... you can observe your breath, and silently repeat the mantra, and put yourself into one pointedness as you go to sleep... and even if you don't go into one pointedness, you will put yourself into a deep restful sleep... I do this most nights, and wake up a few minutes before the alarm clock goes off, feeling wide awake and energized... if you are restless and having a hard time going to sleep, this can be especially useful... and it enhances your concentration as well…

 

2)… “as if my consciousness is perched in an alert mode in a sea of emptiness.”… this is the ideal state to be in when you do “investigation” of your mind to develop “wisdom”… your concentration is too strong and alert for your mind to distract or deceive your awareness…

 

Metta,

Edited November 28, 2010 by dawg

[三江源]

.

Edited March 30, 2015 by 三江源

[dawg]

[Maddie]

[Aaron]

One thing that this discussion brings to mind is our idea of self. I've been reading Alan Watts and one thing he discusses is the idea that we view ourselves oftentimes in the third person. His example is how we refer to our bodies, as if somehow our body was separate from us.

 

We say, "I speak, I walk, I think, and (even) I breathe." But we do not say, "I shape my bones, I grow my nails, and I circulate my blood."

 

Watts' point was that we see ourselves as something that exists within the body, but that we aren't the body, rather the body is a possession, when in fact we are not only the body, but everything else that is connected to the body.

 

I have no issue with the spiritual world, I have experienced it and I know it exists. My point is that we are simply I. My blood is me, my thoughts are me, the conditioning that is present is me, because it is a part of me. That voice inside my head isn't someone else, it is me repeating what I've been told.

 

My spirit is me and yes it exists, but it exists, not in a separate world, one that can only be seen when one has become enlightened, it exists in the here and now, as much a part of the physical world as my toe nails, hair, and fingers are.

 

As for the future and the past, the future exists already and the past still exists. I have a very specific understanding of the nature of rebirth and my belief is that when we die, we are not necessarily born in the future, but we can also be born in the past. The spirit world, the world that we go to when our physical being is gone, does not exist within the realm of time and space, it isn't beholding to those laws.

 

Anyways, I'm sure this all sounds crazy, but it's my own belief.

 

Aaron

[三江源]

.

Edited March 30, 2015 by 三江源

[Birch]

One thing that this discussion brings to mind is our idea of self. I've been reading Alan Watts and one thing he discusses is the idea that we view ourselves oftentimes in the third person. His example is how we refer to our bodies, as if somehow our body was separate from us.

 

We say, "I speak, I walk, I think, and (even) I breathe." But we do not say, "I shape my bones, I grow my nails, and I circulate my blood."

 

Watts' point was that we see ourselves as something that exists within the body, but that we aren't the body, rather the body is a possession, when in fact we are not only the body, but everything else that is connected to the body.

 

I have no issue with the spiritual world, I have experienced it and I know it exists. My point is that we are simply I. My blood is me, my thoughts are me, the conditioning that is present is me, because it is a part of me. That voice inside my head isn't someone else, it is me repeating what I've been told.

 

My spirit is me and yes it exists, but it exists, not in a separate world, one that can only be seen when one has become enlightened, it exists in the here and now, as much a part of the physical world as my toe nails, hair, and fingers are.

 

As for the future and the past, the future exists already and the past still exists. I have a very specific understanding of the nature of rebirth and my belief is that when we die, we are not necessarily born in the future, but we can also be born in the past. The spirit world, the world that we go to when our physical being is gone, does not exist within the realm of time and space, it isn't beholding to those laws.

 

Anyways, I'm sure this all sounds crazy, but it's my own belief.

 

Aaron

 

Nothing crazy in there Aaron. In fact I reckon you've nailed it

[Vajrahridaya]

Tarthang Tulku.

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

What you think of moving beyond grief.. I guess that is another building block in equanimity, but I dont know. I remember reading the Dalai Llama saying people thought he'd be beyond grief but he wasnt at all. I guess it is what you do with the grief which counts, wether you attach to it, and mythologise it or such, instead of just watching it arise, accepting it, and allowing it's movement without ego response.

 

 

That's the state of natural liberation, where all arisings are excepted as empty of any power to bind, thus they are all experienced with the "one taste" of liberated bliss.

 

Thus my quote below in my signature.

[Aaron]

Nothing crazy in there Aaron. In fact I reckon you've nailed it

 

Well I wouldn't say nothing, but perhaps mostly not crazy.

 

Aaron

[三江源]

.

Edited March 30, 2015 by 三江源

[Machin Shin]

The suchness of bliss

The emptiness of truth

[Alfred E]

The moon the Buddha's finger points to is not really the spirit world. That's a mistake.

*

I have listened to a lot of Dharma talks and discussions at the monastery where I have been meditating, and it is my understanding that a person who reaches nirvana goes to the Buddha Realm which is the highest realm in the spirit world... and people who are "on the path" to nirvana (who will have no more than 8 reincarnations before they reach nirvana), are reincarnated no lower than the human realm, but usually in a heavenly realm... you may reach nirvana while still alive (like the Buddha), but nirvana is not really a condition of the physical world, that you are already in the Buddha realm at the top of the spirit world even though you still have a body... To me the Buddha's finger pointing at the moon, is the Buddha pointing out the spiritual path (road map) you have to follow to reach nirvana, which is the highest realm in the spirit world... And to get there you have to be aware of the spirit world first, and then understand that the spirit world is more important than the physical world...

Metta,

Dawg

 

It often seems that people are translating without knowledge of the primary language.

 

Obviously, in a Chinese language translation, the primary language is Chinese.

 

 

1. Sun = 阳

2. Moon= 月

The primary character involved, in the above example, is Sun.

The secondary character involved in the above is Moon.

The Chinese character for Moon is made from the character of Sun with 2 ticks(checkmarks) indicating a reflection.

Buddha is pointing to the moon in an effort to convey to the reader that Yin or the reflection of the sun (Yang) is the Way (Tao)

The power of Yin in Taoism is the power of the moon AKA: Meditation. The Buddha recieved enlightment through meditation.

Enlightenment (Understanding) is drawn (in Chinese) by drawing the 2 characters of Sun and Moon together.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Alfred E

[Machin Shin]

I had an interesting though about a large body coalescing around an even larger body.

 

As the moment spins and heats up it collapses. The spinning allows for order to exist and as the moment collapses it becomes stronger, yet the existing moment of the larger body prevents the smaller moment from being the primary moment in the frame.

 

The two bodies disrupt the harmony of the moment, then the work is shared between the two bodies. After awhile harmony is restored.

[Alfred E]

One thing that this discussion brings to mind is our idea of self. I've been reading Alan Watts and one thing he discusses is the idea that we view ourselves oftentimes in the third person. His example is how we refer to our bodies, as if somehow our body was separate from us.

Aaron

 

Aaron, Here is a bit of eye candy passed to me from a passed master that you may be interested in.

 

1

2

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1da00_spiritual-reality-pt2_people

3

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1da8v_spiritual-reality-pt3_shortfilms

4

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1dae5_spiritual-reality-pt4_creation

5

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1daj2_spiritual-reality-pt5_blog

6

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1danq_spiritual-reality-pt6_news

7

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1dapv_spiritual-reality-pt7_people

8

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1dijt_spiritual-reality-pt8_school

[Gerard]

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Edited November 28, 2013 by Gerard