Eye witness accounts of the spirit world

[dawg]

[i_am_sam]

I've never heard of anyone remembering being in the womb or a new baby before. I wonder why it is that we do not remember past lives?

 

When my brother was around 7 years old, his class at school were asked for their earliest memory. He said he remembered being born, and that 'everything was done for me'. Nearly 30 years later, I don't know if he still remembers.. I suspect not.

 

Thanks to all who've contributed to an interesting thread.

[time to change]

When my brother was around 7 years old, his class at school were asked for their earliest memory. He said he remembered being born, and that 'everything was done for me'. Nearly 30 years later, I don't know if he still remembers.. I suspect not.

 

Thanks to all who've contributed to an interesting thread.

dawg i have a question is it better to meditate on top of mountains and when u enter into the spirit world do u sit in full lotus

[Birch]

Well, I think that a lot of our "choices" are actually made by our "Higher Selves." So, "you" still may be responsible for it on a much higher level. It may just be a different level of "you."

 

The veil between these levels of "you" is what creates our ignorance, doubt & fear. Faith, or self-belief, is sensing the invisible connection that actually still exists there, even though it may be veiled.

 

Obviously, your conscious "you" as a child was probably not responsible for getting abused. However, your Higher Self may have subjected you to that experience for whatever reason... Your Higher Self's "free will" & karma may be your conscious self's "fate."

 

 

PS - dawg - AWESOME posts, man! ^5 Thoroughly enjoying all of them!!!

 

Neat posts all. Vortex, I'm afraid I don't believe in a "higher self" - although I guess I very much believe in a "lower" one which sort of begs the question (for if there is lower then there is surely higher.) I just think there is one, and it doesn't subject itself to anything for kicks.

 

But suggesting this would leave the windows and doors open for questions about why such awful things happen to people.

 

My 2 cts. Of course.

 

Edited for encroaching dyslexia

Edited October 26, 2010 by Kate

[Guest paul walter]

All right, we might have a better chance at understanding each other and talking productively and enjoyably some other time then, with one prerequisite. First I will have to forget that you called ayahuasca a "drug," the Mother of the Universe a "fairy," and turned a rather universal insight, which in honesty and vulnerability I applied first and foremost to myself instead of granting myself an exemption (something that kills all insights into all human problems, the "I'm OK, it's you who has a problem" mentality), into a stone to throw at me. Wish me luck.

 

 

Always the last word

[Gerard]

Edited March 30, 2012 by Gerard

[3bob]

Hello Bob,bob,bob,

 

"Samadhi" is just the Pali word(a dialect of Sanskrit) for "concentration"... it is not the spirit world...

 

And any way, the quote is talking about a series of ever deeper states of concentration... not multi tasking...

 

And the goal of Samadhi is to reach "one pointedness" which is the opposite of multi tasking.

 

Have a nice day,

 

Metta,

 

Well, it sounds to me like you don't understand the quote; which in my interpretation doesn't get stuck in these astral realms you are describing, and thus alludes to seeing, working and being masterly involved in all realms as needed in multiple ways, which is far beyond just or only a "one pointedness" type of goal which of course also has its place. Btw, the Buddhist terms you are using to paint over what could be called the Hindu interpretations don't match up.

 

Another thing that does not compute to me (and perhaps some others here?) about your posts is your easy mixing of Buddhism with astral stuff, which the historic Buddha and many modern day Buddhists don't go on about although I do understand that aspects of astral stuff is in the cultures where Buddhism has spread with resulting adaptations of parts of same being incorprated into various forms of Buddhism.

 

Good evening

 

Om

[Taomeow]

(and perhaps some others here?)

 

Definitely you are not alone.

 

I was shaking my head at the "memories of birth" of a premature baby placed in the incubator and comparing them to my own... wow, what fun it must be to belong to the species of baby dawg describes! but unfortunately, a premature human baby is not this lucky. For starters, the neocortex which does our conceptual thinking for us is not there yet, it is simply not formed anatomically at birth... so stories of what one thought about when being born are akin to a story of, e.g., growing a beard at three days of age and mom complaining about the stubble interfering with nursing. The beard machinery is not there yet... and the conceptualizing machinery is not there yet. That's human. Some other species may be born with a cranium-full of abstract ideas about its experiences of the moment, but not ours. Regardless of whether you remember your past lives or not, in this-here life you are born feeling, not thinking.

 

Feeling, on the other hand, is present full blast at birth, more so than in an adult -- not only all the machinery for it is already there but much of it is cranked up to intensity later unavailable to adults or even babies three months old. And none of it is mediated with neocortical ideation and conceptualization that disperses its intensity in adults. What kind of machinery?.. E.g., the retinas of the newborn baby are ten times more sensitive to light than those of an adult (which makes the "bright light in the room" mentioned by dawg an intensely traumatic experience in real retrieved memories of birth, of which I've witnessed a couple hundred, besides my own. One of the ways we screw up our species is by allowing birth into bright lights, something that never happens to natural/indigenous humans). On top of that, the retinas of a premature baby are ten times more sensitive to light than those of a full term baby. (Dawg, let me guess... your current eyesight is not 20/20, am I correct?..)

 

Now then. When they cut the umbilical cord, the feeling experience is invariably that of suffocating. Again, natural humans don't do that, allowing the baby's own circulation to gain momentum before it will be separated from the mother's. The abrupt cutting of the umbilical cord and the horrible feeling of dying because one can't breathe right after being born is behind all subsequent suicidal activities known to man that involve the cutting off of air, unconsciously aimed at replicating the conditions of the unresolved original life-and-death trauma in order to resolve it. On top of that, in a premature baby, a special foam-like fluid that is released by the lungs a couple of days before full-term birth so as to soften the impact of air hitting this infinitely tender organ not yet accustomed to it is not formed yet. Which is why my earliest memory, the real one, is of breathing in what felt like coarsely crushed glass.

 

And so on... And particularly because I have real memories and have helped other people retrieve them, I'm having a hard time with dawg's contributions of pretty fairy tales... The harm of these tales (not dawg's alone, of course, I mean the cumulative harm from all such tales) is tremendous. If we don't realize that we horribly traumatize our children by all the methods we utilize to "help" them into this world, the obliviousness will never end, and the cruelest abuse of the most vulnerable and dependent of humans, newborn babies, will never stop... and because the effects of a traumatic birth are permanently damaging and body-and-soul-altering, and someone has seen to it that every single modern birth is traumatic, we will never recover from our predicament.

[dawg]

[C T]

Not so sure that 'enlightenment' is itself an experience.

 

According to your practice (and mine too), there is no 'I' to experience this enlightened state.

 

At the onset of the realization of non-dual awakening, which can only happen in the now-ness of the moment, always, the self drops away. Who remains to experience, when the very act of acknowledging any experience, following which the reference of a self must necessarily arise, immediately regresses the mind to recall and reflect on past experiences as rough or subtle measures to arouse meaning in the present one.

 

Which is why i said enlightenment cannot be an experience. That which can be experienced(named) can not be true enlightenment.

 

What is true enlightenment? That which can not be named. Therefore, silence.

 

To conclude, just wanna say that enlightenment is not like skydiving.

Edited October 27, 2010 by CowTao

[dawg]

Definitely you are not alone.

 

I was shaking my head at the "memories of birth" of a premature baby placed in the incubator and comparing them to my own... wow, what fun it must be to belong to the species of baby dawg describes! but unfortunately, a premature human baby is not this lucky. For starters, the neocortex which does our conceptual thinking for us is not there yet, it is simply not formed anatomically at birth... so stories of what one thought about when being born are akin to a story of, e.g., growing a beard at three days of age and mom complaining about the stubble interfering with nursing. The beard machinery is not there yet... and the conceptualizing machinery is not there yet. That's human. Some other species may be born with a cranium-full of abstract ideas about its experiences of the moment, but not ours. Regardless of whether you remember your past lives or not, in this-here life you are born feeling, not thinking.

 

Feeling, on the other hand, is present full blast at birth, more so than in an adult -- not only all the machinery for it is already there but much of it is cranked up to intensity later unavailable to adults or even babies three months old. And none of it is mediated with neocortical ideation and conceptualization that disperses its intensity in adults. What kind of machinery?.. E.g., the retinas of the newborn baby are ten times more sensitive to light than those of an adult (which makes the "bright light in the room" mentioned by dawg an intensely traumatic experience in real retrieved memories of birth, of which I've witnessed a couple hundred, besides my own. One of the ways we screw up our species is by allowing birth into bright lights, something that never happens to natural/indigenous humans). On top of that, the retinas of a premature baby are ten times more sensitive to light than those of a full term baby. (Dawg, let me guess... your current eyesight is not 20/20, am I correct?..)

 

Now then. When they cut the umbilical cord, the feeling experience is invariably that of suffocating. Again, natural humans don't do that, allowing the baby's own circulation to gain momentum before it will be separated from the mother's. The abrupt cutting of the umbilical cord and the horrible feeling of dying because one can't breathe right after being born is behind all subsequent suicidal activities known to man that involve the cutting off of air, unconsciously aimed at replicating the conditions of the unresolved original life-and-death trauma in order to resolve it. On top of that, in a premature baby, a special foam-like fluid that is released by the lungs a couple of days before full-term birth so as to soften the impact of air hitting this infinitely tender organ not yet accustomed to it is not formed yet. Which is why my earliest memory, the real one, is of breathing in what felt like coarsely crushed glass.

 

And so on... And particularly because I have real memories and have helped other people retrieve them, I'm having a hard time with dawg's contributions of pretty fairy tales... The harm of these tales (not dawg's alone, of course, I mean the cumulative harm from all such tales) is tremendous. If we don't realize that we horribly traumatize our children by all the methods we utilize to "help" them into this world, the obliviousness will never end, and the cruelest abuse of the most vulnerable and dependent of humans, newborn babies, will never stop... and because the effects of a traumatic birth are permanently damaging and body-and-soul-altering, and someone has seen to it that every single modern birth is traumatic, we will never recover from our predicament.

 

Hello Taomeow

 

You obviously don’t realize or understand that the body of a baby is not driving the development of that baby's spirit or awareness… that the reincarnated mind is fully developed and aware at birth… that the awareness is not dependent on the development of the brain in any way… which indicates that you either don’t believe in reincarnation, or simply don’t understand it

 

Have a nice day,

 

Metta

Edited October 27, 2010 by dawg

[Mokona]

Dawg,

 

During astral type - or spirit world travels, have you ever come across what is called the "Higher Self"?

[Taomeow]

[dawg]

Not so sure that 'enlightenment' is itself an experience.

 

According to your practice (and mine too), there is no 'I' to experience this enlightened state.

 

At the onset of the realization of non-dual awakening, which can only happen in the now-ness of the moment, always, the self drops away. Who remains to experience, when the very act of acknowledging any experience, following which the reference of a self must necessarily arise, immediately regresses the mind to recall and reflect on past experiences as rough or subtle measures to arouse meaning in the present one.

 

Which is why i said enlightenment cannot be an experience. That which can be experienced(named) can not be true enlightenment.

 

What is true enlightenment? That which can not be named. Therefore, silence.

 

To conclude, just wanna say that enlightenment is not like skydiving.

 

 

Hello CowTao,

 

Enlightenment is pure awareness... awareness does not need an "I" to exist...

 

you are correct in thinking that enlightenment cannot be an experience, because an experience implies attachment to something, and in nirvana there is no attachment.

 

"silence" is a physical sensation, nirvana is not physical, so it is better to think of it as stillness of awareness (no turbulence) and bliss.

 

and you are certainly correct in saying that enlightenment is not like skydiving.

 

You could think of enlightenment as like being aware of everything, but attached to nothing... in an eternal state of "now"...

 

Metta,

 

DISCLAIMER FOR NIT PICKERS : yes I know that nirvana can not be described with words, that words can only describe things with bounds, and that nirvana is unbounded.

[dawg]

Dawg,

 

During astral type - or spirit world travels, have you ever come across what is called the "Higher Self"?

 

hello Mokona,

 

No... I have always though of the higher self as being the awareness of your (eternal) spirit, as opposed to the awareness (conditioned reflex) of your conscious mind...

 

that said, I have seen my spirit body while in the spirit world... I was looking at my spirit body from outside my spirit body... and I was amazed by it... it looked like me, but unlike my physical body, it was perfect flawless and radiant... but note that the spirit body that I saw in the spirit world, is the same spirit body that occupies my physical body...

 

so the only "higher self" that I know, is the awareness of my normal spirit body, as opposed to the conditioned reflexes of my mind.

 

Metta,

[dawg]

Hello dawg,

 

how about something less obvious than your de riguer "the other guy/gal who is not me obviously doesn't realize or understand what I, dawg, realize and understand" -- e.g., it will be much less obvious for you but just consider for a moment this outlandish possibility... how about I remember, and I remember it differently?.. and what I remember requires no "beliefs" at all, unlike what you propose?.. and therefore is inherently a tad more credible than any infant memory that falls apart unless propped up by an adult belief system?..

Have a nice day too.

 

Hello Taomeow,

 

Good Advice...

 

You should practice what you preach...

 

But I will repeat, as a fact, that my memory is continuous from the present, all the way back to the womb... If you don't believe it, it doesn't change the fact.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Metta,

[C T]

Hello CowTao,

 

Enlightenment is pure awareness... awareness does not need an "I" to exist...

 

you are correct in thinking that enlightenment cannot be an experience, because an experience implies attachment to something, and in nirvana there is no attachment.

 

"silence" is a physical sensation, nirvana is not physical, so it is better to think of it as stillness of awareness (no turbulence) and bliss.

 

and you are certainly correct in saying that enlightenment is not like skydiving.

 

You could think of enlightenment as like being aware of everything, but attached to nothing... in an eternal state of "now"...

 

Metta,

 

DISCLAIMER FOR NIT PICKERS : yes I know that nirvana can not be described with words, that words can only describe things with bounds, and that nirvana is unbounded.

Hey Dawg...

 

Apologies for veering off your subject of the spirit world.

 

Cant agree with you here that experience implies attachment.

 

I do not believe that experiences in themselves are harmful or distracting. Enlightened beings surely have experiences too. So logically there is no attachment implied here at all. Something else goes on as experiences take place that separates how an enlightened being handles experience as compared to clowns like me. Something that is tied to habitual tendencies, which is the unseen force that makes people do things against their will, that then gives birth to attachments and aversions, which in turn displaces one's mindful presence, or makes it difficult to sustain this mindfulness. Like being helplessly carried away by a tsunami, as an analogy. Even enlightened beings, if they happen to be in the vicinity, will be swept away, but the difference is perhaps they will struggle less, and the sense of helplessness can not arise if there is an absence of struggle. Simple cause and effect stuff.

 

thanks for your time, btw... i very much enjoy the conversations, even if we disagree on certain personal views.

[Mokona]

hello Mokona,

 

No... I have always though of the higher self as being the awareness of your (eternal) spirit, as opposed to the awareness (conditioned reflex) of your conscious mind...

 

that said, I have seen my spirit body while in the spirit world... I was looking at my spirit body from outside my spirit body... and I was amazed by it... it looked like me, but unlike my physical body, it was perfect flawless and radiant... but note that the spirit body that I saw in the spirit world, is the same spirit body that occupies my physical body...

 

so the only "higher self" that I know, is the awareness of my normal spirit body, as opposed to the conditioned reflexes of my mind.

 

Metta,

 

That is interesting in itself, thanks!

[Taomeow]

Hello Taomeow,

 

Good Advice...

 

You should practice what you preach...

 

But I will repeat, as a fact, that my memory is continuous from the present, all the way back to the womb... If you don't believe it, it doesn't change the fact.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Metta,

 

Here we go again. "You should"?.. Even my teachers don't tell me what I "should." Instead, they show me something I might want to emulate. You don't.

 

For the sake of others who might be following the exchange, let me clarify. It's not that I don't believe in reincarnation and memories all the way to the womb. It's just that I don't believe "everyone" who says that they have them. I accept these things on a case by case basis.

 

If it so happens that you come across someone who, based on your presentation, finds she doesn't trust you, please be advised that there's no way you can condescend to this person, shame her, or otherwise coerce her into trusting you. You might want to just accept it, and accepting it is not about scoring points in a hurry with all those assorted "you don't understand" and "you don't realize" and "you should" that you dish out. Accept it in humility as reality, something that is... and THAT would be the only chance for the broken trust to be mended. Go for scoring points and it is shattered for good. Your choice, obviously.

[dawg]

 

 

I am pretty aware of what you mentioned. The images I saw didn't popped out of my head and I wasn't certainly thinking of anything or trying to think of parallel realities. Same happens when I practice standing meditation and see gates through specific trees that open to those realities I already referred to in this and other threads.

 

Btw, Daoist energetic practitioners I know of had similar experiences to mine. I also belief the vortex of energy (similar to that of the spinning of galaxies or planets around their stars) you create as a result of Bagua practice is ceertainly very powerul, more than what I experienced during silent Vipassana retreat which requires an extended period of time, too many hours a day and leaves you too ungrounded if you are not careful.

 

 

Hello Durkhrod Chogori,

 

Nimitta appear spontaneously, and are not produced by the conscious mind (what you are thinking about)... they just appear, seemingly out of no where... any one who does serious meditation is likely to experience nimitta ... visual nimitta are the most common type... I usually see nimitta while I am doing walking meditation, or doing standing meditation on the walking path at the Buddhist temple where my teacher lives... sometimes in the middle of the night it can get pretty weird, but I just chill and enjoy the show... and keep on walking...

 

although we are not in the spirit world, some nimitta can be caused or created by spirits... (i guess they are pushing buttons in our head)... nimitta are experienced by the body's senses, so can be sight, sound, smell, taste, or touch... they are physical phenomena that we experience with our physical body.

 

When doing walking meditation in the wee hours of the night, I have several times had the candles on my walking path grow into blazing multicolored sparklers with sphere shaped halos around them... making the walking path look like a magic place amid the dark forest that surrounded it.

 

I have had spirits poking me in the legs when I tried to sleep... my teacher said, "they are needy spirits that want you to give them some "merit" (good karma energy), the next time they bother you, offer them (intend) some of your merit and send them on their way... your generosity will earn you more merit than you give, so you will lose nothing"... I did what he said, and I was not bothered any more...

 

Then I had spirits flicking water in my face, I could feel the water but my face would be dry... again this would happen when i was trying to go to sleep, 3, 4, maybe 5 times they would flick water in my face... even when I pulled the blanket over my face, I could still feel it... until I started offering them merit, then they went away...

 

Then one day at the monastery, after it had rained all night and the leaves of the trees were wet, I went to do walking meditation on a walking path (which is shaded by trees)... I stepped onto the end of the walking path facing the other end, and did 6 six deep breaths in and out, and the tree I was standing under dropped all of it's water on me... I thought it was a very odd thing to happen, but shrugged and started walking down the path... as I walked, every tree that I passed under dropped it's water on me, I was soaked... when I told my teacher what happened, he said, "the devas were blessing you", then he had a really good laugh...

 

My teacher said to ignore nimitta, that they are just a by product of your meditation, and are not important.

 

Good luck in your practice,

 

Metta,

[Gerard]

Edited March 30, 2012 by Gerard

[dawg]

[dawg]

Careful with this thread everyone. Don't let your egos interfere with your practice because it is easier to reach "egohood" than "buddhahood", for sure. The mind is a trickster and a master of deception.

 

WATCH YOUR MINDS.

 

 

Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...Buddho... Buddho...etc

 

Metta,

[Gerard]

Edited March 30, 2012 by Gerard

[goonis38]

hello Mokona,

 

No... I have always though of the higher self as being the awareness of your (eternal) spirit, as opposed to the awareness (conditioned reflex) of your conscious mind...

 

that said, I have seen my spirit body while in the spirit world... I was looking at my spirit body from outside my spirit body... and I was amazed by it... it looked like me, but unlike my physical body, it was perfect flawless and radiant... but note that the spirit body that I saw in the spirit world, is the same spirit body that occupies my physical body...

 

so the only "higher self" that I know, is the awareness of my normal spirit body, as opposed to the conditioned reflexes of my mind.

 

Metta,

 

Hi there,

I was told by a friend, that is gone now... That when he would go on an OBE. That he would look at his self in the mirror and it was amazing. This is as you say. You look kind of like yourself, but more beautiful. He also told me, if I got the chance to look at my hands and feet. Do you know what he meant?

I was also told there is a beautiful city built. And that there are people that look just like us, and higher beings, also. I have only got to go twice on my own and talk to two regular people, and i have to say they did just look like anyone you would see on the street.

But there was someone there talking to a man I could not see. And the man I could see said to the other, I couldn't see. "Where did you get this one?" And it was said kinda funny.... I have to add. I have had a presence of something in my home for over a year now.

I can smell it, and it has a smell of nothing I have ever smelled before. Not bad, not good. Just different... I have talked to it through pendulum work, which I don't mess with anymore. Long story. And he told me he is a fallen Angel, and that they take many brides, but only one queen. And I have been being watched ever since...

Any ideas on any of this, I would sure appreciate it. There is more to the story. But i would feel better on a pm if you don't mind. If you do, anything you have to say would be greatly appreciated...

I want to add. I brought attention to myself through a Ouija board a couple of years ago, when this all started. And I pray, and read my Bible. I seem to be drawn to this type of communication. Rather I wanted it or not. Because I got ride of that board, and all things, that have to do with that type of thing along time ago. And my body would go to the astral plain on it's own. I would wake up just vibrating, and watching myself from above, this is one of the reasons. I came looking to this site for some understanding...

So anyways, If you might have some ideas for me... Thank you, and you can PM if you don't mind... Melanie