Gold Dragon Body Photos

[ralis]

yes. what is your point again?

 

Obviously, it is useless talking to you!

[gendao]

This looks faked to me--like you intentionally tried to make what was actually happening look fake by focusing on the 'flaws' you thought were fake in the previous pictures. The jury is still out...

I agree.

 

It's a good demo that shows how motion with a long exposure can create degrees of transparency. Big thanks to simply puzzled!

 

However, a blur still remains that obviously traces a biomechanically-correct trajectory (in this case, his torso thrashing down).

Whereas in Kan's photos, the transparent and blurred zones don't follow biomechanical trajectories and appear in a far more haphazard manner. As Scotty noted - in the top photo, Kan's lower forearm is opaque while his upper forearm is transparent. Well, since those areas are between joints - there's no way they could have been moving independently of each other. I think this tends to rule out long exposure motion photography.

So if these photos were faked, they basically would have had to have been Photoshopped. From the other examples posted, I don't think these could have been reproduced with simple long exposures..

 

Yet again, the only thing these photos and other examples here have basically done - is further reinforce peoples' already-existing beliefs, lol...

[Owledge]

@vortex

It was clear from the beginning that IF those photos were fake, they would have required photoshopping.

 

What strikes my attention especially in the first picture you just posted and which seems not to have been mentioned yet is the area of his feet. There, parts of him vanish in an area that looks very two-dimensional. Not like a part of him vanished, but was kind of 'cut out' or negatively obscured by an object between him and the camera.

 

In the second picture there is a similar phenomenon on knee-height with only partial transparency, but a perfect horizontal line. And in the first photo, this also occurs in the torso area as a straight diagonal line.

More interesting than speculating about photoshopping here might be how these peculiar visual phenomena could occur if the photos are real.

 

Oh, another interesting phenomenon: In the second picture, look at the seat's backrest, the line between the light and the dark part. It looks like a motion blur, but it has a slightly radial characteristic and is only seen in that part of the picture, so it couldn't have happened due to a shaking camera.

 

And I don't have much experience with cellphone cameras, but these photos are supposed to be shot relatively quickly, without preparation time, right? What auto-mode camera would so massively overexpose a photo, especially when a light source is in the middle of the picture?

 

Furthermore, what would experts have to say about the multiple hexagonal lens-flares in both pictures. Seem to be correctly following the camera angle change.

Edited October 24, 2010 by Hardyg

[UTI]

Popped back in to see just how this became 16 pages... yeuchs!

 

I don't know if this is already said, but it doesn't have to be long exposure+quick motion or photoshop, it can easily be done with double exposure of the frames. It's an easy trick to create semi-transparent faces, bodies etc. I've done it many times. Same with the flashes of lights and stuff. All these photos can easily be tricked with a good 'ol non-digital system camera. I'd reproduce the effects, but I don't have one anymore.

 

But what's the point in discussing? The only reason it's interesting is because this issue is close to our hearts. If it was pictures of transparent jesus' amidst crowded masses we would just deem it to be photoshopping or something else. Unless we were Christian. Then we'd be discussing it. But probably not for 16 pages.

[Owledge]

I don't see why there shouldn't be a thorough investigation of this, as long as it is done in a light-hearted, playful manner, fueled by such nice things like curiosity and the search for truth. A highly spiritual endeavor.

And those who are somewhat more negatively-emotionally involved in it deliver a message about their pain that maybe can be answered.

 

I'd say that what often creates drama here is not just certain very inquisitive people (if at all), but the amplifiers, the people that respond in an equally pain-filled manner, resulting in a battle of inner demons so to speak. Don't just read what people write, also think about why they write it. Don't pour salt into an open wound. Take people's concerns serious.

 

Along these lines, the aforementioned e-mail-response shows a clearly perceivable level of pain, although it can have various reasons (problem with having a revered thing doubted, impolite tone of the inquirer, generally in a bad mood at the moment, lack of time for dealing with e-mail etc.). I'm quite sure, though, who wrote the response, and I could say it's quite curious, but then again... we all have a unique path and deal with certain things at different points of it.

 

In case you feel I speak in riddles: Maybe someone 'further down the path' would have responded like "Here's how to contact Kan. Have fun with the pics. Don't let these details distract you too much."

Edited October 24, 2010 by Hardyg

[Birch]

Mr Vortex, what's with the poodles???

 

Oh, I get it, it's "golden poodle body"

 

Elsewhere in the news, this thread shows us just how hard it is to prove a "fake" image of anything. So, still watching TV everyone ?

 

Nothing to do with Kunlun. Some folks I like have it as a practice and I think they're fine folks. My bias - as usual...discard.

 

Edited:typo

Edited October 25, 2010 by Kate

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

So if these photos were faked, they basically would have had to have been Photoshopped. From the other examples posted, I don't think these could have been reproduced with simple long exposures..

 

 

Or a combination of the two. Fairly common with the age of digital for photographers to tweak their photos before sale.

[Guest paul walter]

I agree.

 

It's a good demo that shows how motion with a long exposure can create degrees of transparency. Big thanks to simply puzzled!

 

However, a blur still remains that obviously traces a biomechanically-correct trajectory (in this case, his torso thrashing down).

 

 

Hi vortex--I only posted a comment on the submitted photo to see if the bait would be taken and what would be made out of it (of course I think it's legit (as a fake I mean) )) Just a coyote trying to expose the workings of the human mind. So, yeah, here we go again

Edited October 25, 2010 by paul walter

[pamelais]

Kan took these photo's during meditation just shortly before we picked him up to take him to the airport.I personally saw the photo's on his camera - time stamped. He was as amazed as anyone at what was captured on film during his meditation. He had just recently been given the camera (previous photo's he has taken were taken on a cell phone)he is no technology expert and (no computer when he travels) these were successive photo's on his camera. (ie not doctored)

 

I have also been present when he has taken other photo's of higher energies and beings and seen the photo's on the camera at the time they were taken. Kan is no fake, anyone that has been in his presence would ever suggest this. He is the real deal and these pictures are real.

 

believe what you will.... but please know he certainly isnt the one who circulated these photo's. When we saw them we asked that he emailed them to us when he got home(at our urging, we asked for them) he didnt offer them up or ask for them to be shared AT ALL. Some other folks got ahold of these and started circulating them and posting them on websites...

 

Other photo's he has taken we asked to share with people... he was fine with it but it was never his intent. from our perspective, these seemed more personal so we didnt put them out there. but they are out there now and being criticized and evaluated. which is fine.... I can just say I know they are real and I saw them just shortly after they were taken.

 

He never asked for this so its certainly not a form of self promotion.

 

I believe he is activated through his own special gifts and dedication. This I know for certain. He is the most compassionate human being I have ever met.

 

I just had to add that to this discussion but I know its hard to swallow for some that this could possibly be real...

 

Its real.

Edited February 22, 2011 by pamelais

[三江源]

.

Edited July 18, 2014 by cat

[ralis]

Kan took these photo's during meditation just shortly before we picked him up to take him to the airport.I personally saw the photo's on his camera - time stamped. He was as amazed as anyone at what was captured on film during his meditation. He had just recently been given the camera (previous photo's he has taken were taken on a cell phone)he is no technology expert and (no computer when he travels) these were successive photo's on his camera. (ie not doctored)

 

I have also been present when he has taken other photo's of higher energies and beings and seen the photo's on the camera at the time they were taken. Kan is no fake, anyone that has been in his presence would ever suggest this. He is the real deal and these pictures are real.

 

believe what you will.... but please know he certainly isnt the one who circulated these photo's. When we saw them we asked that he emailed them to us when he got home(at our urging, we asked for them) he didnt offer them up or ask for them to be shared AT ALL. Some other folks got ahold of these and started circulating them and posting them on websites...

 

Other photo's he has taken we asked to share with people... he was fine with it but it was never his intent. from our perspective, these seemed more personal so we didnt put them out there. but they are out there now and being criticized and evaluated. which is fine.... I can just say I know they are real and I saw them just shortly after they were taken.

 

He never asked for this so its certainly not a form of self promotion.

 

I know some like to take credit for his development and abilities but he is activated through his own special gifts and dedication. This I know for certain. He is the most compassionate human being I have ever met.

 

I just had to add that to this discussion but I know its hard to swallow for some that this could possibly be real...

 

Its real.

 

 

If they were emailed to you, then how did the images fall into others hands? Further, why were they even allowed on Max's site? Doesn't Max need to approve what is put on his site? After all, the images are on display for anyone in the world to see. It seems to me that the posting of these images is just another promotional campaign. If Max were not interested in promotion of this kind, then why are the images still up?

[gendao]

Kate - What poodles? I posted a pic of some grannies looking at goldfish dragon bodies!

Kan took these photo's during meditation just shortly before we picked him up to take him to the airport.I personally saw the photo's on his camera - time stamped. He was as amazed as anyone at what was captured on film during his meditation. He had just recently been given the camera (previous photo's he has taken were taken on a cell phone)he is no technology expert and (no computer when he travels) these were successive photo's on his camera. (ie not doctored)

 

I have also been present when he has taken other photo's of higher energies and beings and seen the photo's on the camera at the time they were taken. Kan is no fake, anyone that has been in his presence would ever suggest this. He is the real deal and these pictures are real.

 

believe what you will.... but please know he certainly isnt the one who circulated these photo's. When we saw them we asked that he emailed them to us when he got home(at our urging, we asked for them) he didnt offer them up or ask for them to be shared AT ALL. Some other folks got ahold of these and started circulating them and posting them on websites...

 

Other photo's he has taken we asked to share with people... he was fine with it but it was never his intent. from our perspective, these seemed more personal so we didnt put them out there. but they are out there now and being criticized and evaluated. which is fine.... I can just say I know they are real and I saw them just shortly after they were taken.

 

He never asked for this so its certainly not a form of self promotion.

 

I know some like to take credit for his development and abilities but he is activated through his own special gifts and dedication. This I know for certain. He is the most compassionate human being I have ever met.

 

I just had to add that to this discussion but I know its hard to swallow for some that this could possibly be real...

 

Its real.

Thanks for the great personal "inside story" here, Pam!

 

So, if many people here agree that these photos would have required Photoshopping to fake...yet you saw them fresh on his camera before any Photoshopping could be done...then this would add credence to them being AUTHENTIC. Let that sink in for a minute, folks..

 

Now, how much of his GDB attainment do you think is due to Kunlun vs his own extensive qigong training background of ~20 years?

 

Anyhow, I for one am very glad that these photos got shared. People can always come to their own conclusions about them. But at least this allows people that option. And I wouldn't even care if they were promotional (although IMO they are more simply informational)..

[pamelais]

If they were emailed to you, then how did the images fall into others hands? Further, why were they even allowed on Max's site? Doesn't Max need to approve what is put on his site? After all, the images are on display for anyone in the world to see. It seems to me that the posting of these images is just another promotional campaign. If Max were not interested in promotion of this kind, then why are the images still up?

 

 

Just to be clear I am referring to the photos where he is in a seated position and he begins to disappear and trail upwards.

 

As far as the pictures are concerned (and how they fell into others hands) I will tell you this (I need to be as respectful as possible here) I am saying KAN IS NOT interested in Self Promotion. I saw some commentary on certain websites that he took these pictures after someone shared "new practices" with Kan. This is not what he told us.

 

He teaches through compassion, awareness and a complete and total sharing of his heart energy and wisdom (without expectation of return and no hint of control or manipulation) He is respectful of everyone without judgment from what i have witnessed. Self promotion would never even occur to him unless it was to help someone else.... Humble, compassionate and here to be of service to humanity without reservation.

 

I truly hope I am not overstepping by repeating what he has shared with us.....again this is my personal take on the situation (based upon MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE and what I know of Kan and what he has shared with us)

Edited February 22, 2011 by pamelais

[Owledge]

Thank you palemais for sharing some more background info.

 

Personally I believe that certain teachers and "systems" are trying to self promote by taking credit for Kan's very special gifts to further there own purposes. I saw some commentary on certain websites that he took these pictures after someone shared "new practices" with Kan. This is not what he told us. But let me be clear, who am I to say or make a judgement, but I do feel that any gifts Kan has developed are due to his own practices and special abilities and I do not believe they are the result of gifts obtained by any specific teachers "system" but a culmination from his own dedication and special gifts and all he has absorbed along the way. (though he may have received teachings from others, his gifts were present long before he came into the public eye through "kunlun") I also know he has many teachers and many are not of this earth.

One probably shouldn't see this too strictly. The comment about "after the new practices" were maybe not meant in a direct connection, the phenomenon being the effect of just new practices. After all, what can be seen on the photos looks like 'good old Dragon Body stuff' or something like that, no? Not really a novelty that requires a special new technique. (It could also be that the person who maintains the website added his personal notions like amazement over the practice combined with certain professional skills, but I'm not sure who that would be, so it's pure speculation.)

Also you stress that Kan's achievements are not just due to Kunlun practice? But of course not. Our achievements are always a culmination of all our experiences on the path. Kunlun is said to be very efficient, but not necessarily with the 'layman'. It's more the case that people who already have experience with spiritual practice or at least have the right supportive (pre)conditions might 'launch like a rocket' with Kunlun - like one person who did many years of Zen meditation before.

But do you think these things depicted on the photos would have happened if Kan had never practiced Kunlun?

 

-------------

 

Off-topic:

Ralis, you got a PM from me. Overlooked it?

Edited October 26, 2010 by Hardyg

[ralis]

Just to be clear I am referring to the photos where he is in a seated position and he begins to disappear and trail upwards.

 

As far as the pictures are concerned (and how they fell into others hands) I will tell you this (I need to be as respectful as possible here) I am saying KAN IS NOT interested in Self Promotion. Personally I believe that certain teachers and "systems" are trying to self promote by taking credit for Kan's very special gifts to further there own purposes. I saw some commentary on certain websites that he took these pictures after someone shared "new practices" with Kan. This is not what he told us. But let me be clear, who am I to say or make a judgement, but I do feel that any gifts Kan has developed are due to his own practices and special abilities and I do not believe they are the result of gifts obtained by any specific teachers "system" but a culmination from his own dedication and special gifts and all he has absorbed along the way. (though he may have received teachings from others, his gifts were present long before he came into the public eye through "kunlun") I also know he has many teachers and many are not of this earth.

 

In my opinion if this were due to a specific teacher, he surpassed that teacher long ago and is himself the master teacher. He teaches through compassion, awareness and a complete and total sharing of his heart energy and wisdom (without expectation of return and no hint of control or manipulation) He is respectful of everyone without judgment from what i have witnessed. Self promotion would never even occur to him unless it was to help someone else.... The only other teacher I know who has this value of true compassion is Sifu Jenny Lamb. Humble, compassionate and here to be of service to humanity without reservation.

 

I truly hope I am not overstepping by repeating what he has shared with us.....again this is my personal take on the situation (based upon MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE and what I know of Kan and what he has shared with us)

 

As far as the rest, from my experience here is what I will say:

 

The reflection of the moon in the lake isn't the moon.

 

 

Photos are one thing. Have you or anyone seen this phenomenon in person?

[pamelais]

Photos are one thing. Have you or anyone seen this phenomenon in person?

 

Yes I have personally witnessed this phenomenon in person.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Yes I have personally witnessed this phenomenon in person.

...

 

Now ends the discussion on the reality of the photos unless people are gonna just call each other liars. .. . Thanks Pamelais for clearing things up!

[Taomeow]

Personally I believe that certain teachers and "systems" are trying to self promote by taking credit for Kan's very special gifts to further there own purposes. I saw some commentary on certain websites that he took these pictures after someone shared "new practices" with Kan. This is not what he told us. But let me be clear, who am I to say or make a judgement, but I do feel that any gifts Kan has developed are due to his own practices and special abilities and I do not believe they are the result of gifts obtained by any specific teachers "system" but a culmination from his own dedication and special gifts and all he has absorbed along the way. (though he may have received teachings from others, his gifts were present long before he came into the public eye through "kunlun") I also know he has many teachers and many are not of this earth.

 

Well, Kan came to our neck-of-woods not long ago to teach Kunlun. That's Kunlun, not something else. He may have the best of the best of not-of-this-earth teachers, but what he chooses to teach when he comes to California is Kunlun. So I don't think the jab at the "certain teacher" is justified. After all, when teaching the public and charging money for the teachings, Kan teaches specifically what he learned from this teacher. So the very least he owes him is a livelihood. No small peas, this.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yes I have personally witnessed this phenomenon in person.

 

Thank you for sharing all that you have shared

 

Now ends the discussion on the reality of the photos

 

And now begins the discussion on the reality of the claim.

 

If it can be done, why isn't it being done more often? Who has been taught the method to do this? What is the method to do this? What does this phenomena entail? Does it lead to other phenomena? What are the requirements for it happening to someone?

 

And on and on and on and on.

[Owledge]

What is the method to do this?

Well, I thought it would be obvious. As far as I understand, these invisibility phenomena are connected to the Golden Dragon Body achieved through the combination of Kunlun's spontaneous nei gung and the Red Phoenix practices taught at seminars.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Hardyg

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well, I thought it would be obvious. As far as I understand, these invisibility phenomena are connected to the Golden Dragon Body achieved through the combination of Kunlun's spontaneous nei gung and the Red Phoenix practices taught at seminars.

 

One of the captions of the pictures says that Kan is doing this after receiving new practices.

 

Now pamelais seemed to imply that that statement isn't necessarily true. If that's the case, and it's just Kunlun and Red Phoenix, then where are the other invisible people? If it's just something Kan can do, what's so special about Kan? If it's just a certain stage, then where are other people in relation, and how can they get to that stage? If there are advanced practitioners that don't have this happening to them, why not? Is it something else they have to do? Is it is a supplemental practice? If so:

 

What is the method to do this?

 

If not, then it'd be nice to be told that the methods that are on the table are just the Kunlun and Red Phoenix. But we are still left with the other questions.

[ralis]

Yes I have personally witnessed this phenomenon in person.

 

 

When is Kan returning to the U.S.?

[Owledge]

... then where are the other invisible people? If it's just something Kan can do, what's so special about Kan? If it's just a certain stage, then where are other people in relation, and how can they get to that stage? If there are advanced practitioners that don't have this happening to them, why not? Is it something else they have to do? Is it is a supplemental practice?

I can't explain very well what I mean, but these questions seem a bit odd. Some a bit philosophical, or already answered, or asking to be told everything one can possibly ask, like it's a kind of duty. For example, there is no obligation to make a list of all the people that reached a certain stage with the practices.

It's not like there's a manual missing or something. This would probably go very much into individual-training stuff, because everybody's path and conditions in life are different.

Maybe more details about the practices will be supplied soon. As you see, Max has a kind of weblog now, and - I don't want to say more than I'm supposed to - it's not like everything about the practices and what's known about them is cast in iron and fixed.

Let me say it this way: I totally agree that it would be nice to have more clarifying information.

For everything that does not happen, there's a reason. Would be nice to know it. If that won't happen, there's a reason for that, too. I agree, things can be frustrating. But I guess some things just have to be accepted. :-/

 

Oh by the way, I just had a funny thought: When life presents the same kind of experiences again and again, the usual spiritual advice is that there is a kind of lesson still not learned. If we are not shy applying that to everybody, one could apply that to Max and the drama unfolding again and again about the practices. And if that sounds unfair, maybe we should stop obeying cheap self-confirming (undisprovable) wisdoms like that.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Hardyg

[Sloppy Zhang]

would be nice

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

It would be nice.

 

No one HAS to do anything. If they don't want to, then don't. If they do, then do. Or do not.

 

My point is that the discussion will not end if there is still someone out there with those questions.

 

You can say it's all their fault, you can see it's the fault of people making claims, you can say it's karma, you can say just accept it, you can go on a crusade to try and find the answers, you can investigate the practice, you can do the practice yourself, you can not do the practice.

 

But just because someone comes in and says, "no I saw this myself" means, well, pretty much nothing. It's nice that we have their testimony.... but it doesn't get us anywhere.

[Owledge]

You can say it's all their fault, you can see it's the fault of people making claims, you can say it's karma, you can say just accept it, you can go on a crusade to try and find the answers, you can investigate the practice, you can do the practice yourself, you can not do the practice.

And from a Taoist perspective, all these things will happen and they're all OK and have their place and reason, thus should not be brushed off.

 

But just because someone comes in and says, "no I saw this myself" means, well, pretty much nothing. It's nice that we have their testimony.... but it doesn't get us anywhere.

Where do you want to get?