Gold Dragon Body Photos

[TheTaoBum]

Whats wrong with wanting powers in the first place ? The only reason i even began training was to become more powerful and superhuman like. I certainly did not start for any other benefit except my own.

 

Supernatural powers seemed frowned upon (usually by those who dont have them or never seen) and we are called selfish and wordly for wanting them. But those same people advertise these skills in seminars,and weekend qigong courses. Ask for a demo,and its stricly out of the question. You will really here the sh** start to flow then.

 

Many of the greatest masters in history only started training because they seen or heard about someones elses skill or super power.

 

If you dont like power or martial arts then your in the wrong forum IMO. The qigong and martial arts community have been invaded by newage spiritualist crap and they should return where they come from.

[C T]

Whats wrong with wanting powers in the first place ?

Nothing wrong - most new seekers begin with such fundamental desires when they initially set out. This explains the general label 'Seeker'- ask any beginner on the spiritual path what they want achieve, and odds are they will mention anything other than to be a seeker of wisdom. Not being judgmental here, its merely a 'trend' observation based on personal evaluation after having started along this route myself years ago, and (thankfully) got a smack in the head soon after setting out on that path.

 

What is troubling is that some veterans are still adamantly absorbed by the lures of cultivating supramundane abilities at the expense of first getting the mind ready for when such abilities manifest as a spontaneous effect of wisdom practices. And its not just Western folks - the younger generations of the East is the same. There is a noticeable shift occurring in this regard.. the younger Western generation appear to be more wisdom-oriented nowadays, whereas their Eastern counterparts have switched from that orientation towards desiring development of powers. I am wondering if this has anything to do with the evolving perception of having been labelled the weaker race in the past?

 

 

 

Btw, Taobum, i think that observation you made in the last paragraph regarding the MA community being invaded by new-agers is quite silly. What has this community of trained practitioners to fear, which you have implied by remarking thus? Lack of tolerance is not a virtue of a true cultivator, and this is reflected by your words there. Please have a re-think.

 

I like this quote, which has a bearing on the discussion:

"Start by doing what is necessary; then do what is possible; after a while, you will find that you will be doing what you thought was never possible."

Edited October 28, 2010 by CowTao

[Mokona]

Sometimes the people looking for abilties succeed and it brings them in line with their Higher Self, and they develop virtue along the way. I just feel that a light guiding hand is stronger than the Iron fisted one, and more faith should be held in the average person. We all have opinions though, that's only my two pence.

 

 

Those FB photos have a very happy feeling to them, it tickles.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Mokona

[TheTaoBum]

Nothing wrong - most new seekers begin with such fundamental desires when they initially set out. This explains the general label 'Seeker'- ask any beginner on the spiritual path what they want achieve, and odds are they will mention anything other than to be a seeker of wisdom. Not being judgmental here, its merely a 'trend' observation based on personal evaluation after having started along this route myself years ago, and (thankfully) got a smack in the head soon after setting out on that path.

 

What is troubling is that some veterans are still adamantly absorbed by the lures of cultivating supramundane abilities at the expense of first getting the mind ready for when such abilities manifest as a spontaneous effect of wisdom practices. And its not just Western folks - the younger generations of the East is the same. There is a noticeable shift occurring in this regard.. the younger Western generation appear to be more wisdom-oriented nowadays, whereas their Eastern counterparts have switched from that orientation towards desiring development of powers. I am wondering if this has anything to do with the evolving perception of having been labelled the weaker race in the past?

 

 

 

Btw, Taobum, i think that observation you made in the last paragraph regarding the MA community being invaded by new-agers is quite silly. What has this community of trained practitioners to fear, which you have implied by remarking thus? Lack of tolerance is not a virtue of a true cultivator, and this is reflected by your words there. Please have a re-think.

 

I like this quote, which has a bearing on the discussion:

"Start by doing what is necessary; then do what is possible; after a while, you will find that you will be doing what you thought was never possible."

 

Sorry if i hit a nerve.

[C T]

Sorry if i hit a nerve.

Apology unnecessary.

 

Just that i found it quite odd that a Westerner who adopted an Eastern set of practices would be so forward in making defensive observations with regards to the perceived 'invasion' by New Agers. In the East some would view Westerners who take a shine to Eastern paths as 'New Agers' too, so be careful what views you decide to use to shape your path.

 

Might be helpful to learn to be more accepting of others, just as others try to accept and understand why you would be holding on to your present view, but when you make biased observations directed at certain groups without any credible proof of damage done (of which there is none!) then it shows lack of respect and self-dignity.

 

I am only saying this out of brotherly concern, as in one bum to another. I am not defending the New Age movement here, and neither am i interested in their theories and practices. Nothing personal.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Whats wrong with wanting powers in the first place ? The only reason i even began training was to become more powerful and superhuman like. I certainly did not start for any other benefit except my own.

 

Supernatural powers seemed frowned upon (usually by those who dont have them or never seen) and we are called selfish and wordly for wanting them. But those same people advertise these skills in seminars,and weekend qigong courses. Ask for a demo,and its stricly out of the question. You will really here the sh** start to flow then.

 

Many of the greatest masters in history only started training because they seen or heard about someones elses skill or super power.

 

If you dont like power or martial arts then your in the wrong forum IMO. The qigong and martial arts community have been invaded by newage spiritualist crap and they should return where they come from.

 

My sentiments exactly

 

Well, don't know how much I agree with the last little chunk, but everything else 110% agree.

 

Nothing wrong - most new seekers begin with such fundamental desires when they initially set out. This explains the general label 'Seeker'- ask any beginner on the spiritual path what they want achieve, and odds are they will mention anything other than to be a seeker of wisdom. Not being judgmental here, its merely a 'trend' observation based on personal evaluation after having started along this route myself years ago, and (thankfully) got a smack in the head soon after setting out on that path.

 

What is troubling is that some veterans are still adamantly absorbed by the lures of cultivating supramundane abilities at the expense of first getting the mind ready for when such abilities manifest as a spontaneous effect of wisdom practices. And its not just Western folks - the younger generations of the East is the same. There is a noticeable shift occurring in this regard.. the younger Western generation appear to be more wisdom-oriented nowadays, whereas their Eastern counterparts have switched from that orientation towards desiring development of powers. I am wondering if this has anything to do with the evolving perception of having been labelled the weaker race in the past?

 

 

 

Btw, Taobum, i think that observation you made in the last paragraph regarding the MA community being invaded by new-agers is quite silly. What has this community of trained practitioners to fear, which you have implied by remarking thus? Lack of tolerance is not a virtue of a true cultivator, and this is reflected by your words there. Please have a re-think.

 

I like this quote, which has a bearing on the discussion:

"Start by doing what is necessary; then do what is possible; after a while, you will find that you will be doing what you thought was never possible."

 

I started training because I wanted powers. Still want them. After four years, still going strong. Had to sort through a lot of bullshit. Found some very good things along the way.

 

I don't want to toot my own horn, but I was a pretty nice guy when I started. Still think I'm a pretty nice guy. Watched nice, wholesome cartoons and anime when I was growing up. Learned lessons about friendship, the strong helping with weak, and things like that. I learned karate as a kid, but since I was a bigger kid, and a nice guy, I got picked on by lots of smaller kids who called me "fat". I never retaliated, because that's not what the "good guy" does. It's not nice to be picked on. Even if you retaliate, you are blamed as the trouble maker. It's not fun. Eventually I did physically retaliate. Didn't have any problems for the next 6 years (which is when I moved away). Yeah, I got punished. But the real trouble makers never caused trouble again.

 

I figured I had lots of common sense. I'm a friend to people I meet, and help those in need. But I must ask: what is wisdom without power to implement that wisdom? I see power in the hands of cruel people so very often. I cry and get very frustrated whenever I see movies dealing with betrayal or conspiracies (such as the Count of Monte Cristo). Nice people just trying to live their lives with no harm to anyone who get taken advantage of by not nice people, and are POWERLESS to stop it. Real life doesn't turn out like movies. The "good guy" doesn't always win. People are brutally and unfairly victimized by evil perpetrators. Sometimes they are never saved or found. I think of the case of Natalie Holloway. No one knows what happened to her, yet the person who has last seen her is running around, literally screwing with everyone, telling one false story after the next. On a wider scale, people are killed in natural disasters which could have easily been prevented by simple things like better building codes.

 

Since I've started, I feel like my compassion has grown, and my perspective has gotten wider. But I remain POWERLESS to do anything about it. Then I see people running around saying they can cure cancer, can turn invisible, can clairvoyantly see/find people, yet what do they do to help the world? NOTHING. A big. Fat. Nothing. They say you can pay X amount of money and spend Y amount of time training, and YOU can develop this stuff.... and who has done so? NO ONE. If they have, they don't talk about it. And it's fine. It's their prerogative to not say anything, and I respect that.

 

But the fact is there ARE people saying they can do stuff. And the fact is there ARE ways that they can help if their claims are true. And the fact is they AREN'T doing ANYTHING about it.

 

So, for me, finding power is important. Because you can be as right as you want, but be executed by a group of people who want to control whatever group is in question, and you will be POWERLESS to do ANYTHING about it. Then do you know how many people you have saved? NONE.

 

The rhetoric surrounding "powers" makes me laugh, cry, and gets me angry. It is one of the most hypocritical things I have ever seen.

 

And CowTao, I think it's that rhetoric that thetaobum was pointing out in his post. New Agers (and many others) who come in and dogmatically say, "just accept" "you are uncomfortable with the situation because of your ego" "if you want powers, that's just selfish" with absolutely no care to the actual motivations for the drive to get or use those powers. Some of us don't live in la la land. Some of us don't live in happy, "just accept and go with the flow and everything will be all right." Sometimes if you accept and go with the flow, you just get brutally run over again and again and again.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[TheTaoBum]

Apology unnecessary.

 

Just that i found it quite odd that a Westerner who adopted an Eastern set of practices would be so forward in making defensive observations with regards to the perceived 'invasion' by New Agers. In the East some would view Westerners who take a shine to Eastern paths as 'New Agers' too, so be careful what views you decide to use to shape your path.

 

Might be helpful to learn to be more accepting of others, just as others try to accept and understand why you would be holding on to your present view, but when you make biased observations directed at certain groups without any credible proof of damage done (of which there is none!) then it shows lack of respect and self-dignity.

 

I am only saying this out of brotherly concern, as in one bum to another. I am not defending the New Age movement here, and neither am i interested in their theories and practices. Nothing personal.

 

Amusing comments cow considering both of my parents are not westerners. Perhaps its you who ought to be more accepting of others and their opinions. Nothing personal.

[Owledge]

@Sloppy Zhang

I so much agree especially with your last posting.

Also, isn't the term "self-emPOWERment" regarded as very positive and crucial? And since there are so many smartasses who say things like "God helps those who helps themselves", I guess one has to achieve the power to resolve issues in one's own life.

It might even be that the classical situation where the bad people always dominate is derived from that false sense of modesty and wisdom of good people who remain passive ... out of fear or convenience or some other character issues.

Along these lines I recently realized the relationship between living conditions in relation to personal freedom and such and the willingness of people to stand up and fight if necessary. Take Venezuela for example: Ruled by a totally corrupt, capitalist system, then a socialist one where people are willing to fight for it. Now you could say that by fighting, they increase the deep fears of the ruling class even more, but hey, this "even more" really doesn't matter so much, because it was already at a totally unacceptable level before. Bad people often can't get much worse and can't do much more damage than they're already doing, but on the side of good people, there's so much dormant potential!

A crucial attribute of good people with power is a resistance to being corrupted by it, but I think this is another overrated thing. People who developed compassion out of suffering for many years will have a pretty solid resistance to that. From personal experience I would say that when those people gain some power that enables them to overcome troubles, it calms them down even more. Because not being able to overcome trouble builds up anger, which can lead to violence.

I think the saying "power corrupts" often confuses cause and effect and doesn't make any kind of distinction between people. Just another of many generalization.

Personally, I think on the path to wisdom, those generalizations should be removed from thinking, because they create inflexibility and dogma.

[C T]

My sentiments exactly

 

The rhetoric surrounding "powers" makes me laugh, cry, and gets me angry. It is one of the most hypocritical things I have ever seen.

 

And CowTao, I think it's that rhetoric that thetaobum was pointing out in his post. New Agers (and many others) who come in and dogmatically say, "just accept" "you are uncomfortable with the situation because of your ego" "if you want powers, that's just selfish" with absolutely no care to the actual motivations for the drive to get or use those powers. Some of us don't live in la la land. Some of us don't live in happy, "just accept and go with the flow and everything will be all right." Sometimes if you accept and go with the flow, you just get brutally run over again and again and again.

Hi Sloppy..

 

Thanks for sharing your story. Always delightful to read when your passion flows like that.

 

Not sure if you care to know or not, but i for one have absolutely no hang-ups with the accumulation of 'good' powers. When i was young, like many other young lads, really enjoyed movies where bad guys get the crap beaten out of them, but not before the good guy get rained on plenty first , but he eventually meets some hidden master who imparts to him a superskill, which he uses to kapow the baddies, hailed a hero, and goes riding off into the sunset, sometimes winning the heart of the fairest maiden along the way. This is all very nice, and btw, i still fantasize now and again about such things and continue favoring movies that retain similar themes. It feels good to watch the demolition of perceived unfairness in the world, and even better to feel that punitive goodness can triumph over the might of evil, even if its only on screen. I was 13 when Bruce Lee passed away. He was my hero. Imagine the devastation and the grief i felt then, for in my world at that time, he epitomized the image of what a real good guy is. I started learning MA seriously then, and developed visions of one day carrying on Bruce's legacy. Yeah, i know, it was that bad. Anyways, sorry for the ramble...

 

Back to present. This is my current philosophy: Without wisdom, power accumulation has the potential to contaminate, as evident from what is going on in the world today.

 

Your justified anger points to those who claim to possess relevant powers, and yet are empty when it comes time to walk the talk. Lets face it... even if these powers are somehow made known, realistically, how many will have the resolve, the right discipline, patience and karmic constitution to cultivate these powers? Sounds lame? Maybe, but this is a fact. Current lifestyles are herding people in the direction of destructive tendencies, and not towards cultivation of virtue. Its shaping up as if all attention is being focussed on the propagation of laziness and debauchery, and accumulation of externalities. Its a wave of gigantic proportions, sweeping everything along the way. Its force can not be stopped because, unfortunately, we are this force. We are the sole heirs to our own legacy of past disregard and impropriety. Somehow, It has to burn itself out.

 

How did this begin? Not sure if i know all the reasons, but certainly, we can see that greed (of which power is chief among all the different yearnings) is one of the major contributing factors. Now, if wisdom had been prevalent, we could probably have averted this situation, and if not, at very least, faced with such a dilemma, we would know how to help ourselves and others by not being sucked in by this overwhelming global shift. We learn to stay ahead of the wave, hopefully. Not saying its good or bad, its just something that we have created ourselves, and will have to run its course. In light of this, i really cannot see how being powerful can somehow do anything to neutralize some of the effects of this shift, because power cannot fight power. The laws of Tai Chi says only the soft can absorb/overcome the hard. I dont know - maybe this is an outdated modality, but is it wise to dismiss something that's been proven to be true? Might be good to investigate this...

 

So we have a choice to make here. Do we yield, or do we stand our ground, with our puny powers? If the answer is to yield, then perhaps its time to investigate what yielding really means, and whether its as weak as some us here have been led to misconstrue. Is yielding perhaps the greater power? I can only speculate that it is, but i know for sure that thru yielding, and with wisdom intact, if one day, when this body is old and worn out (and all bodies will wear out at some stage) there will be lessened bitterness as this eventuality comes to pass. If you do not believe me, go do some voluntary work with the old folks. Lots can be learned, of which humility and reduced smugness are two important curves to note. Another thing which becomes very clear is that the mind, even though diminishing with age, is always the last to cease its function. It may not be as sound, but it still works, even after some of the bodily parts have seized up. So its good to pay some attention to cultivate wisdom, which if anything, will outlast many of our physical merits.

 

It can be really hard to work so dedicatedly to develop something and then gradually find that that which you have developed can no longer serve you, due to the greater power of natural laws, one of which demands that all that is born must one day die. Even the Son of God, in the flesh, was subject to this inescapable law. He who performed miraculous feats, yet had to bow before the might of nature. So, birth, old age and death is real. Powers come and powers go. With wisdom, we cherish these when its around, and yet, when it starts diminishing, which it will, i guarantee you, again its wisdom that will carry you to the place where watching them dissipate, there will still be gladness in your heart.

 

We can either learn now to accept the impermanence of this body, and lose being overly attached to it, or deny this for as long as possible, until one day, we are forced to accept the fact, which usually entails lots of bitterness and conflict. Ask anyone here with older parents to verify if this is true or not. Of course there are many other issues at play, but basically, old age can be as traumatic as birth, more or less.

 

There is nothing New age in this philosophical view at all. Its been proven to be ultimately more enduring than the cultivation of power for its own sake.

 

(sorry for the long post. if i had better writing skills, i could have wrote this with half the amount of words. apologies)

 

 

my 2 cts.

Edited October 28, 2010 by CowTao

[C T]

Amusing comments cow considering both of my parents are not westerners. Perhaps its you who ought to be more accepting of others and their opinions. Nothing personal.

Sincere apologies. I mistook you for some other bum. Sorry.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Hi Sloppy..

 

Thanks for sharing your story. Always delightful to read when your passion flows like that.

 

Not sure if you care to know or not, but i for one have absolutely no hang-ups with the accumulation of 'good' powers. When i was young, like many other young lads, really enjoyed movies where bad guys get the crap beaten out of them, but not before the good guy get rained on plenty first , but he eventually meets some hidden master who imparts to him a superskill, which he uses to kapow the baddies, hailed a hero, and goes riding off into the sunset, sometimes winning the heart of the fairest maiden along the way. This is all very nice, and btw, i still fantasize now and again about such things and continue favoring movies that retain similar themes. It feels good to watch the demolition of perceived unfairness in the world, and even better to feel that punitive goodness can triumph over the might of evil, even if its only on screen. I was 13 when Bruce Lee passed away. He was my hero. Imagine the devastation and the grief i felt then, for in my world at that time, he epitomized the image of what a real good guy is. I started learning MA seriously then, and developed visions of one day carrying on Bruce's legacy. Yeah, i know, it was that bad. Anyways, sorry for the ramble...

 

Yes, I enjoy those movies too. And they can carry some good lessons and lead to reflections. But looking at real life, that doesn't happen. People are falsely imprisoned, and rot and die (or are executed) for no reason other than their objection to the current regime. Predators are on the prowl, looking for people with a low guard to take advantage of. As the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished, and if you aren't careful, that can and does happen.

 

I'm all for helping people, but correct help that will help EVERYONE. If I help some homeless guy, who then stabs me to take my wallet so he can buy drugs, well, he might feel really bad about it in the future. Or he'll overdose and die. In which case, two people will be dead. Or, if I decide to help someone else, or, if I know how to physically defend myself, then I would not be put in a situation in which I am the next victim, AND I can help. Self sacrifice, while noble, only goes so far. I don't object to self sacrifice, I object to useless self sacrifice. Getting stabbed by a crack head is, most likely, a sacrifice which will bear no fruit.

 

Your justified anger points to those who claim to possess relevant powers, and yet are empty when it comes time to walk the talk. Lets face it... even if these powers are somehow made known, realistically, how many will have the resolve, the right discipline, patience and karmic constitution to cultivate these powers? Sounds lame? Maybe, but this is a fact.

 

It's no different from the invention of modern weaponry. Human kind has the ability to destroy the planet hundreds of times over. A few hasty pushes of buttons, and we're gone. Not that I don't understand your argument, but I don't think that "spiritual" powers would be any different than anything else.

 

Current lifestyles are herding people in the direction of destructive tendencies, and not towards cultivation of virtue. Its shaping up as if all attention is being focussed on the propagation of laziness and debauchery, and accumulation of externalities. Its a wave of gigantic proportions, sweeping everything along the way. Its force can not be stopped because, unfortunately, we are this force. We are the sole heirs to our own legacy of past disregard and impropriety. Somehow, It has to burn itself out.

 

I highlighted something which I find a rather interesting trend that seems to manifest itself in those who study history, those who partake in various spiritual traditions, etc etc. It's the notion that "current" times are somehow inferior, or less virtuous, then "the good old days." I hate to break it to you, but it's same old, same old.

 

There was a Roman historian who prefaced his book by saying something to the effect of, "the youth of the modern day are lazy, and disrespect their elders. The elite lounge around all day, the politicians engage in all sorts of debauchery, and military leaders are the ones who seize control. I'll look to the past, remember the virtuous founders of Rome, and maybe we can learn a lesson."

 

Each generation thought the world was going to end. We think the world was going to end. Think about what the people living in WWII thought? Countries killing off significant portions of the population, bombs which could make cities vanish in an instant. And guess what? WE'RE STILL HERE.

 

So, again, it's not that you don't have a point (to some extent), it's just that, I for one, don't find your point very relevant to the issues that are being discussed. And you aren't the only one putting this point forward. It happens a lot, and I find it to be a pretty weak explanation for why powers/abilities/whatever shouldn't/aren't/won't be taught/learned/used.

 

In light of this, i really cannot see how being powerful can somehow do anything to neutralize some of the effects of this shift, because power cannot fight power.

 

Again, I find it amazing how so many people in spiritual paths have such a lack of vision.

 

The laws of Tai Chi says only the soft can absorb/overcome the hard. I dont know - maybe this is an outdated modality, but is it wise to dismiss something that's been proven to be true? Might be good to investigate this...

 

So we have a choice to make here. Do we yield, or do we stand our ground, with our puny powers? If the answer is to yield, then perhaps its time to investigate what yielding really means, and whether its as weak as some us here have been led to misconstrue. Is yielding perhaps the greater power? I can only speculate that it is, but i know for sure that thru yielding, and with wisdom intact, if one day, when this body is old and worn out (and all bodies will wear out at some stage) there will be lessened bitterness as this eventuality comes to pass. If you do not believe me, go do some voluntary work with the old folks. Lots can be learned, of which humility and reduced smugness are two important curves to note. Another thing which becomes very clear is that the mind, even though diminishing with age, is always the last to cease its function. It may not be as sound, but it still works, even after some of the bodily parts have seized up. So its good to pay some attention to cultivate wisdom, which if anything, will outlast many of our physical merits.

 

It seems lots of people equate "yielding" with "limp". At least I did. The first experience I had with this was learning wing chun. I had gone from karate's hard blocks to wing chun's angular blocks. My teacher told me to hold my arm at a 45 degree angle, but be "relaxed", not like tai chi. My partner threw a punch, encountered my arm, then my arm bent back and I slapped myself in the face. True story. He said "relaxed, not limp".

 

In tai chi, there is the force "peng", the expansive force. At least in Yang style, every move should have "peng". Even when yielding, you have peng. There is never a loss of structure. Even in yielding, you never compromise your own (structural) integrity. You never just accept, you never just lie down. In yielding, you lead your opponent into emptiness, you dissipate their power.

 

And then you follow up this yin with the other half, the yang. This can be in the form of fa jing, this can be in the form of a joint manipulation/break. There IS force involved. There IS an ACTIVE force. The GOAL, however, is to issue force where the opponent is NOT. Find where their structure is weak. If their structure is strong, use that against them, let them go to their own oblivion, then position yourself where you have the advantage.

 

So there is a difference between "yielding" and "accepting." Yielding gives up your current position, because you are going to move to a better one. Accepting, at least in the way I'm distinguishing it from yielding right now, is when you just let the other person do what they are doing with no action on your own, because you believe something like, "oh that's not wu wei" or somethin.

 

It can be really hard to work so dedicatedly to develop something and then gradually find that that which you have developed can no longer serve you, due to the greater power of natural laws, one of which demands that all that is born must one day die. Even the Son of God, in the flesh, was subject to this inescapable law. He who performed miraculous feats, yet had to bow before the might of nature. So, birth, old age and death is real. Powers come and powers go. With wisdom, we cherish these when its around, and yet, when it starts diminishing, which it will, i guarantee you, again its wisdom that will carry you to the place where watching them dissipate, there will still be gladness in your heart.

 

Again, I don't disagree with you. It's just that the scale you're talking about is so large, it is almost separate from the issue at hand. ("but there is no separation" yadda yadda..... no)

 

Just because powers come and go does not mean they do not have a use. Just because something is impermanent does not mean that I cannot use it. The food I eat is eventually going to wind up a pile of shit. Does that mean I can't enjoy the food in front of me? I think I CAN enjoy the food! One day, the person I see getting victimized is going to get over it, or else they'll be dead and they won't care anyway, does that mean I shouldn't help? NO. That's RIDICULOUS!

 

Do not let the concepts of impermanence lead to apathy!

 

We can either learn now to accept the impermanence of this body, and lose being overly attached to it, or deny this for as long as possible, until one day, we are forced to accept the fact, which usually entails lots of bitterness and conflict. Ask anyone here with older parents to verify if this is true or not. Of course there are many other issues at play, but basically, old age can be as traumatic as birth, more or less.

 

Just because we're going to grow old doesn't mean that we can't do what we can now! Just because attachment to physical form is dangerous, doesn't mean I shouldn't help people who are about to be subjected to bodily harm!

 

There is nothing New age in this philosophical view at all. Its been proven to be ultimately more enduring than the cultivation of power for its own sake.

 

[sarcasm]Yes, which is why there are so many enlightened people running around, telling us what to do, and preventing us from doing stupid stuff! Thanks to their enduring traditions, succeeding over the "lesser traditions" of power seeking, we live in a great world![/sarcasm]

Edited October 28, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Owledge]

@Sloppy Zhang

Thanks again for writing down my thoughts where I don't have the energy to do it.

 

A kind of suspicion is developing in me, that a well-developed intellect (meaning doing head-based stuff like extensively researching history here) might be somewhat of a coutnerpart to cultivating heart-energy, but it, too, is a strength. And it might be a strength that 'heart-focused people' are quick to dismiss. Probably a serious imbalance there and an irony of life that it's not recognized.

I really don't want to be arrogant (I know it's unwise to be), but I have to acknowledge my growing experiences that highly advanced spiritual people can learn a thing or two from 'head-biased people', ironically about things they themselves are talking about, like the simplicity of certain things. They seem to be sometimes too much focused on things 'not from this world', but delude themselves into believing they know a lot about matters of this world.

An example for explaining what I mean: It is a very interesting experience when you see one of those 'spiritual leaders' or 'highly enlightened people' explain something with their own understanding, using sophisticated spiritual jargon, that you yourself know is just fake, a lie, that they fall for.

Or to use a specific example from real life: All it takes for understanding that HIV/AIDS is a big scam created by greedy people in big business is to watch some films and/or thoroughly read up on the topic. And then I read a spiritual healer saying that the AIDS epidemic in Africa is just because people there have no perspective in life! And that ironically comes from a guy who wants to educate people to get rid of the entanglements of the medical establishment.

It's the very familiar tendency of people wanting to explain the whole world with their own specialized stuff.

Well... I guess that makes me a better healer of HIV. Should I call me an "intellectual healer"?

[Sloppy Zhang]

@Sloppy Zhang

Thanks again for writing down my thoughts where I don't have the energy to do it.

 

A kind of suspicion is developing in me, that a well-developed intellect (meaning doing head-based stuff like extensively researching history here) might be somewhat of a coutnerpart to cultivating heart-energy, but it, too, is a strength. And it might be a strength that 'heart-focused people' are quick to dismiss. Probably a serious imbalance there and an irony of life that it's not recognized.

I really don't want to be arrogant (I know it's unwise to be), but I have to acknowledge my growing experiences that highly advanced spiritual people can learn a thing or two from 'head-biased people', ironically about things they themselves are talking about, like the simplicity of certain things. They seem to be sometimes too much focused on things 'not from this world', but delude themselves into believing they know a lot about matters of this world.

An example for explaining what I mean: It is a very interesting experience when you see one of those 'spiritual leaders' or 'highly enlightened people' explain something with their own understanding, using sophisticated spiritual jargon, that you yourself know is just fake, a lie, that they fall for.

Or to use a specific example from real life: All it takes for understanding that HIV/AIDS is a big scam created by greedy people in big business is to watch some films and/or thoroughly read up on the topic. And then I read a spiritual healer saying that the AIDS epidemic in Africa is just because people there have no perspective in life! And that ironically comes from a guy who wants to educate people to get rid of the entanglements of the medical establishment.

It's the very familiar tendency of people wanting to explain the whole world with their own specialized stuff.

Well... I guess that makes me a better healer of HIV. Should I call me an "intellectual healer"?

 

I'm taking upper level astronomy classes as part of my science requirements at my university, and I am amazed at how often my professors make comments that are so analogous to spiritual traditions (such as taoism and buddhism).

 

These are people who, as far as their research goes, are empiricists. They only make statements based on what phenomena have been observed, as well as what they think theoretically can be observed. And here they are saying the same things about life and the universe that you hear spiritual gurus saying!

 

I always found it funny, not how people make dichotomies between "science" and "spirituality", "head people" vs. "heart people", but how they think these dichotomies mean that one group must have something the other group doesn't/can't have. If two people are trying to explore the world and learn through direct experience, to uncover the illusions of the world and try to find what's really there, aren't their goals the same? And if what they discover is really there, then shouldn't a scientist come to the same conclusion as a cultivator?

 

That's what I think, and I smile every time I sit in class and hear my professor talk about what psychics experiments have done, and what theories have been found to have real correspondents!

Edited October 28, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[gendao]

Here is a series of photo's taken with the intent to raise vibration to the point of flashing in and out of this dimension at a perceivable rate. It is a form of energetic "play":

 

http://www.facebook.com/ECETI.org#!/album.php?aid=15451&id=1677554578

 

I have a BUNCH of others from a variety of practitioners and guests. I will host them somewhere and post here to show that this happens with regularity if the frequency is held. This is also with photo's before and after showing that that camera is not mal-functioning...

Very interesting.. What practice(s) did this guy use to develop his "raised frequency??"

It seems lots of people equate "yielding" with "limp". At least I did. The first experience I had with this was learning wing chun. I had gone from karate's hard blocks to wing chun's angular blocks. My teacher told me to hold my arm at a 45 degree angle, but be "relaxed", not like tai chi. My partner threw a punch, encountered my arm, then my arm bent back and I slapped myself in the face. True story. He said "relaxed, not limp".

 

In tai chi, there is the force "peng", the expansive force. At least in Yang style, every move should have "peng". Even when yielding, you have peng. There is never a loss of structure. Even in yielding, you never compromise your own (structural) integrity. You never just accept, you never just lie down. In yielding, you lead your opponent into emptiness, you dissipate their power.

 

So there is a difference between "yielding" and "accepting." Yielding gives up your current position, because you are going to move to a better one. Accepting, at least in the way I'm distinguishing it from yielding right now, is when you just let the other person do what they are doing with no action on your own, because you believe something like, "oh that's not wu wei" or somethin.

Well, relaxation helps to facilitate qi flow. However, if you have little qi built up, then there won't be much to flow. That's why simply relaxing won't give you any power - cultivating qi will. But cultivating qi is not taught very much in IMA.

 

Hence, most practitioners cannot make IMA work because they have been taught to put the cart (relaxation) before the horse (qi). Simply relaxing without being full of qi (peng jin) will simply make you a dishrag pushover.

[pamelais]

8

Edited February 22, 2011 by pamelais

[Owledge]

Vortex, what would you say will happen when someone builds up chi, but can't relax?

 

@pamelais

Yeah, playfulness. Its importance often stressed in connection with Kunlun. Part of my frustration that playfulness is a state I can't really achieve in the situation I'm in. The urge is there, but the mood is not right. The things I can feel playful about kinda have been taken away from me (or I lost them, if you want to say it that way), in retrospect, almost systematically. Thus, because I want to stay with the system, I try - probably against recommendations - to do crazy things like combining Kunlun with anger.

I mean ... it's not like I'm worried about negative impacts. Too numb for that kind of worries.

The alternative would be to not practice Kunlun. Which is very likely not a good way to practice it.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Hardyg

[gendao]

Vortex, what would you say will happen when someone builds up chi, but can't relax?

If you can't relax, then I'm not sure how much qi you could build up to begin with?

 

I think the more you relax, the less focused intention you need to accumulate qi.

 

I'm guessing we might sort of be like sponges. Even the tiniest squeeze tends to squeeze out water and reduce its holding capacity.

 

Of course, this could be a gross overgeneralization/simplification and I could just be wrong here too...

Edited October 28, 2010 by vortex

[Sloppy Zhang]

I never said I had a problem with powers (abilities) or martial arts....we all have gifts and potentials and activating them is often part of the process. I just dont think wisdom and power are mutually exclusive and I dont want to make this seeking the goal (for me) however I do embrace activation of my gifts, but I dont seek out these abilities as my goal. Not to say they dont come....(and sometimes go) I just allow them to come if they will....without resistance or reaching out for them. In my view a playfulness around it helps immensely...

 

I have seen too many people obsessed with abilities/power and they have no idea what they are engaging. They often become imbalanced and fragile (from what I have personally witnessed)... it appears to be a form of spiritual materialism in my view....but to each his/her own. Another thing I have witnessed around this is that it people seem to abandon a practice/system if they arent able to very quickly activate the abilities they seek. They move on to the next thing, next teacher, next system without ever really exploring anything enough to find its essence. It stays just out of reach.... thus eliminating the opportunity to see what other gifts or wisdom comes. I dont think it matters what people choose, just pick something that works for you and stick with it. Be an observer and allow it to unfold as it will. Everyone has there own path, there own goals and choices... I can only comment on my own experience and perspectives.

 

Has it ever occurred to you, or anyone else, that the reason people quit is because there is not a systematic way for revealing to people a method of uncovering these abilities? Sure, you can say, "well that's not the point", but let's face it: many people ARE in it for the powers, the status, whatever. Sure, they might come to some realization along the way. Or they might not. But that's besides the point.

 

Sure, you can say that each person is different, yadda yadda. But really, just think about it from that person's perspective.

 

They year you, with one breath, say, "this practice can unlock your powers/potential." They say, "I am tired of being powerless, I want to be empowered!" So they practice the practice for such and such amount of time. Sometimes for days, sometimes weeks, sometimes months, sometimes years. They hear you say, "oh yeah, uncover, empower". But it's not working. So then they finally ask:

 

"What's the deal? Why haven't I unlocked any of my powers?"

 

And they hear you say, "oh, well that's not really what this is about. It's more about a change in consciousness. About becoming wise."

 

It's like..... wow, well, you say that NOW. But you ALSO tell people it can unlock powers. But since there is no investigation of 1) the people who proclaim to have powers and are out in the public (so as not to bother people who want to keep their practices and powers private) and 2) the methods with which those people got those powers, and 3) how those methods can be applied to people, well, it fails.

 

More Pie Guy talks about practices from a marketing perspective. Yeah, you can complain about commodification all you want, but think it through: you are pitching a practice as being able to give a certain thing, but you aren't investigating it, and nobody is getting the thing they signed up for the practice for.

 

NO WONDER PEOPLE QUIT! It's not a mystery!

 

It's not that their "selfish", it's not that their "blind", it's not that there is something wrong with them. It's that the product they are getting is not what they are told it was to begin with!

 

OF COURSE they're going to find something else that DOES suit their goals!

Edited October 28, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Aetherous]

Sloppy,

 

After all of this, I really don't know what you're talking about. Just devote your time to practicing something real, and you'll discover your powers. Spending time whining about how you spent 4 years practicing insubstantial things on and off isn't going to get you there!

[rain]

I am reading this thread and I come across the word POWER power powerpower

 

say where is it? What is it? What's it for?

 

I discovered that being less reactive and angry gave me more

 

POWER

but it seemed to benefit everyone else as well.

 

but I am just an old ass who invited the drunkard in decades ago.

he told me I was an ass then and that he¨'d spare me because of my naivite. guess I still am. an ass.

whats that POWER you speak about?

can I have some?

Edited October 28, 2010 by rain

[pamelais]

Knowing others is intelligence.

Knowing yourself is true wisdom.

Mastering others is strength.

Mastering yourself is true power.

 

If you realize that you have enough,

you are truly rich.

If you stay in the center

and embrace death with your whole heart,

you will endure forever. - Tao Te Ching # 33

[Owledge]

Knowing others is intelligence.

Knowing yourself is true wisdom.

I cannot clearly distinguish between the two. Understanding others make me understand myself better and vice versa.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Hardyg

[TheTaoBum]

@Sloppy Zhang

I so much agree especially with your last posting.

Also, isn't the term "self-emPOWERment" regarded as very positive and crucial? And since there are so many smartasses who say things like "God helps those who helps themselves", I guess one has to achieve the power to resolve issues in one's own life.

It might even be that the classical situation where the bad people always dominate is derived from that false sense of modesty and wisdom of good people who remain passive ... out of fear or convenience or some other character issues.

Along these lines I recently realized the relationship between living conditions in relation to personal freedom and such and the willingness of people to stand up and fight if necessary. Take Venezuela for example: Ruled by a totally corrupt, capitalist system, then a socialist one where people are willing to fight for it. Now you could say that by fighting, they increase the deep fears of the ruling class even more, but hey, this "even more" really doesn't matter so much, because it was already at a totally unacceptable level before. Bad people often can't get much worse and can't do much more damage than they're already doing, but on the side of good people, there's so much dormant potential!

A crucial attribute of good people with power is a resistance to being corrupted by it, but I think this is another overrated thing. People who developed compassion out of suffering for many years will have a pretty solid resistance to that. From personal experience I would say that when those people gain some power that enables them to overcome troubles, it calms them down even more. Because not being able to overcome trouble builds up anger, which can lead to violence.

I think the saying "power corrupts" often confuses cause and effect and doesn't make any kind of distinction between people. Just another of many generalization.

Personally, I think on the path to wisdom, those generalizations should be removed from thinking, because they create inflexibility and dogma.

 

Heres another one of "Their" ridiculous Quotes...........When The Student is ready The Master Appears rofl.

 

They Quote classics but dont understand them, Speak in riddles like Lao Tzu, and give advice like they are buddha.

 

The newbie qigong syndrome is in full effect here gentleman !

[C T]

Heres another one of "Their" ridiculous Quotes...........When The Student is ready The Master Appears rofl.

 

They Quote classics but dont understand them, Speak in riddles like Lao Tzu, and give advice like they are buddha.

 

The newbie qigong syndrome is in full effect here gentleman !

are you the new sheriff in town?

[Owledge]

Where's the connection between bluntly speaking one's mind and sheriff-like behavior?