Gold Dragon Body Photos

[Guest paul walter]

If one carefully examines the photos, a few problems can be observed.

 

1. The first and second photos shows distorted body proportion i.e, hands.

2. The so called light around his feet is very angular as if from movement.

3. There is a lot of over exposure behind the figure.

 

Examine the photos without preconceived notions i.e, no woo woo. See the photos as they truly are.

 

 

 

Yes, these are THE giveaways! There can be no explanation under heaven as to why achieving the Golden Dragon Body should mimic the process of bad 'auric' photography unless that extra strand of DNA Max has contains the amateur photographer genetic code and has influenced Kan's energy through transmission?

[Guest paul walter]

Believers will take them as proof, non-believers will consider them fakes.

 

 

I'm a believer in such things and I consider these fake. Francis Bacon paintings have a more visceral effect on me than these things. Paul

Edited October 18, 2010 by paul walter

[joeblast]

lol...I dont know, why bother sharing them, even if done as said, people will find convincing ways to explain it away anyway. personally if I snapped a pic like this of myself, I'd share it with a couple friends and my teachers and that would be the end of it, the rest of you would never know, I wouldnt even want to bother dealing with "the burden of proof" that I'd have to painstakingly defend, and with the likely possibility people wont believe regardless.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

 

Frankly I think it looks more convincing in the long exposure photo frauds of a hundred years ago-at least they had gelatine prints to add to the 'beauty' of the 'spectre' and more careful processing.

 

 

Oh i agree, 35mm has nothing on the true oldschool stuff.

[That Guy]

lol...I dont know, why bother sharing them, even if done as said, people will find convincing ways to explain it away anyway. personally if I snapped a pic like this of myself, I'd share it with a couple friends and my teachers and that would be the end of it, the rest of you would never know, I wouldnt even want to bother dealing with "the burden of proof" that I'd have to painstakingly defend, and with the likely possibility people wont believe regardless.

Well just do it for James Randi and company and you are sorted. Or Richard Dawkins and company.

You make it sound like a really tough task

 

If you wanted to keep your abilities private its one thing (which max doesnt sincce pictures are on the net), but if you want to show people it is legit it really isn't that hard...(as long as you really are legit)

 

 

These avid atheist preachers give lots of talks etc, just come in, walk on stage and go golden dragon mode and make them shit bricks.

[goldisheavy]

Another interesting experiment would be if someone could truly replicate a similar photo?

 

I could do it, but why bother? Do you know anything about photography at all? I know a lot of this stuff because my dad used to teach photography professionally. You need to be smacked with a clue bat.

 

(check out this light-body master)

 

http://www.flickr.com/groups/g10-challenge/discuss/72157619734701305/ (read this)

 

http://www.flickr.com/groups/761746@N21/pool/

 

Google "long exposure photography ghost"

 

You might also want to look up neutral density filter.

Edited October 18, 2010 by goldisheavy

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well just do it for James Randi and company and you are sorted. Or Richard Dawkins and company.

You make it sound like a really tough task

 

If you wanted to keep your abilities private its one thing (which max doesnt sincce pictures are on the net), but if you want to show people it is legit it really isn't that hard...(as long as you really are legit)

 

 

These avid atheist preachers give lots of talks etc, just come in, walk on stage and go golden dragon mode and make them shit bricks.

 

Pretty much.

 

To me, if you want to stay private, that's your prerogative. You got people like John Chang saying, "I won't teach, bye." And that's okay (well it's not like he didn't cause some ripples of his own, but let's move on). Who knows how many masters there are out there that can do amazing things, but none of us will EVER know because they want to stay private. As much as I personally want masters to step forward, if they want to stay silent, that's their prerogative, and I respect that.

 

HOWEVER, once you step out into the public sphere, well, it's like stepping off the edge of a cliff. You can't go around saying, "hey guys, I can turn invisible and fly around!" and then turn around and be like, "nah, I won't show you, I want to keep my stuff private.... but here are a few photos I took in my spare time. Oh, you believe me? Great, here's the info for my seminar. Oh, you don't believe me? Well, I guess you just aren't ready for spiritual advancement." Well, you could, but you'd have absolutely no air of legitimacy (translation: don't whine when people call you a fraud, because you are exhibiting textbook fraudulent behavior)

 

It's sketchy at best, and at worst, it's a really big dick move, because you are purporting to have some mega awesome healing/empowering/enlightening system, but you aren't doing something that would be really easy to do if you could actually do it, which would spread your method to the world a LOT faster than one seminar at a time. Of course, you'd be getting a lot more opportunities to get money if you did it one seminar at a time (rather than one time on the world's stage). But we've discussed how (un)profitable seminars really are in past threads, so I don't mean to resurrect an already beaten and very very very dead horse.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[joeblast]

so its as simple as stepping on a stage, demonstrating, and the world believes? ah sweet naivete.

 

 

...and when Randi declares you're still a fraud because your aura doesnt show up as 60Hz AC?

[markern]

They coul have made a video. That would have been much more convincing. And just as easy. That they did not indicates to me that it is fake. Sure you can fake video as well but much more difficult for an amateur.

[markern]

There is no short way that I can respond to that. So here I go....

 

It's not about shifting the responsibility from the individual. It's about having a shared system of accountability.

 

For example, let's say I want to buy a car. I go down to the car dealership, and a salesman says, "oh yeah, this car is really great. Lots of people have bought this car, and they all really like it. A few people have had problems, but for the most part, those are people who used the car in the wrong way."

 

And you ask: "what's the gas mileage?"

 

And their response is: "well gas mileage changes depending on how you use the car. High performance cars sometimes need to drive at higher speeds to get better gas mileage, so if you are mostly driving around in the city, it might not be as good."

 

And you go: "uh.... okay, what's the average gas mileage?"

 

And their response is: "well that depends on the factors I already stated."

 

So you go: "okay... nevermind.... is this car safe?"

 

And they respond: "well that depends on what type of accident you get into. If you get hit by a semi truck, it'll be a lot worse than if you got hit by a motor scooter."

 

And you say: "okay... well, what's its overall safety rating?"

 

And they say: "well that depends on you as an individual! Are you a good driver? You should examine your own driving habits to determine if you are at risk of a fatal car accident. You shouldn't pick a car that will be a death trap for you."

 

Would you buy a car from this salesman? I'm going to say that most of us will not.

 

Yes, there is the responsibility of the buyer to do research. If you haven't gone off road before, buying an off road vehicle and taking it off road on your own probably isn't the best idea. You might have a bad experience of it because you have no idea what you are doing. On the other hand, if there is a set of standards to determine what general performance is, that greatly helps. And if you are a seasoned off road driver, reading a report of someone who's never done it before saying, "I took this car out on my first time off road, and it was horrible!" you are going to know that that individual report probably doesn't apply to you, nor will it greatly affect your own enjoyment of the vehicle.

 

On top of that, there are things like gas mileage, safety ratings, and things like that. Obviously things change in a case by case basis. But it's good to have a baseline of what something can and cannot do.

 

Now while most people would never buy from a salesman like that, people in spiritual traditions REGULARLY act in the manner of these salesmen, and all kinds of people spend their time and money on a system that may or may not turn out to be trash, or may or may not turn out to be a jewel. How many people have had their money wasted, or their bodies seriously injured, by fraudulent teachers handing out poor systems? Call it karma, call it whatever, but in my opinion there is no rational justification for this.

 

Having a set of standards to hold everyone accountable to is the first step in ensuring that effective methods (for whatever) get to the people who need them. It is ridiculous that for every 1 legitimate method out there, there are 100 false, potentially harmful ones out there, and someone can go their entire life and NEVER encounter a legitimate method, simply because there is so much shit floating around out there, and no way to tell the garbage from the jewels.

 

Spiritual traditions have created an atmosphere where asking questions is wrong. The mark of a good student is that he or she tries a method out themselves, and "proves it to himself/herself". Ignoring the fact that many of these techniques reportedly require years to manifest results, this is just plain NOT COMMON SENSE. You're telling me that the only way to figure out if something is real or not is to do it myself? You realize how ridiculous that is? It would take YEARS just work through all the traditions I've come across in my own short span of life. How about this: if you say you can do something, or that a system can get you to a point where you can do something, you DO IT and SHOW that it can be done. Hm?

 

I've tried to draw, for example, and can't do it at all. Yet I know it's possible because there are artists doing stuff every day. They put out art all the time. I can go up and ask, "how did you draw this?" And they will show it to me. And I will try the method. And I will fail. But someone else will try the same method, and will succeed! So I'll try the method again, and get an ok looking picture. And another person will try it and fail, or make a great picture.

 

I've never been able to clairvoyantly see something (you don't know how convenient that would have made test taking in school!), yet for all of the people running around saying they can see things at a distance, NO ONE has reliably demonstrated it. If you ask them to, you get responses like, "do it yourself!" or "be responsible for your own life!"

 

We have people like

running around, and why? Because we LET her by not holding people accountable to some standard, and just buying into whenever someone says they have "something".

 

If we as a society held spiritual traditions, psychics, qigong masters, and everyone else to the same standard of accountability that we hold everything else to, frauds would have no room to exist, and real teachings could spread to the people who need them!

 

People have associated a virtuous student with one who shuts up and sits still, and a non-virtuous student with one who asks questions and wants it proven to him or her, and as such, they can hide behind that to avoid taking responsibility for their own claims. If you ask a question you don't like, you obviously "aren't ready" for the teachings.

 

 

Great post!!

[ralis]

I don't know what Kan and Max have to gain by this, except to create a mass trance induction so as to make it easier to recruit more students. Further, Max has the most impressive resume of anyone who has ever lived. Master of Tibetan Buddhism, Mongolian Shamanism, received the highest teachings from the Red Willow Society in the Taos NM pueblo (nobody has ever heard of this group), Egyptian Magic and tea ceremony master among other abilities. Last but not least, the all important extra DNA strands.

Edited October 18, 2010 by ralis

[Sloppy Zhang]

so its as simple as stepping on a stage, demonstrating, and the world believes? ah sweet naivete.

 

 

...and when Randi declares you're still a fraud because your aura doesnt show up as 60Hz AC?

 

Randi is not the be all end all of science (Randi has been discussed at length here and on other places, in fact, there are a couple loopholes that Randi has in order to escape from someone who stands at risk to win. First and foremost, the part in the rules that states BOTH parties must agree. The scientists in Randi's employ are not the arbiters of what constitutes a proper scientific experiment, Randi is, and if Randi stands to lose, he can back out. Of course, that's not what HE says, but it's in the rules).

 

Regardless: perhaps you (and others) should take a look at this list which names several organizations and groups that have offered money prizes for proof of paranormal. Notice how many have been collected on? Uh huh, that's right, none.

 

For all the gurus running around claiming your system can give you powers, for all the 16 year olds that have been trying every day to go super saiyan, for all the psychics claiming they have powers, NO ONE has succeeded. Not. A. One.

 

And why should they? They get a constant stream of money and popularity just TALKING ABOUT what they can do. They never actually have to DEMONSTRATE it. People believe them ALREADY. And WHY, you ask? Because if you ask for a demonstration, it shows 1) you have no faith 2) you're obviously unwilling to do the work yourself.

 

Nevermind that someone who could actually do it would get 1) tons of money 2) world wide recognition 3) who knows mow many BILLIONS in endorsements.

 

Think about this: you, succeed in levitating in a scientific experiment. You get instant money from the organization(s) you just bested. Upon hearing the announcement, the world over knows you as the levitating guru. Then you shoot a commercial in which you sit there, drink a red bull, levitate, and chant "red bull gives you wings", and each year, red bull deposits 15 million dollars in your account for exclusive advertising rights.

 

You are now set for life. You no longer have to worry about money. You can focus on spiritual pursuits. Or enjoy your cash. If you care about spreading teachings, you have a very good way to do so. If you don't care about that stuff, you can just spend your money.

 

 

And there you have it. Set for life.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Aetherous]

Think about this: you, succeed in levitating in a scientific experiment. You get instant money from the organization(s) you just bested. Upon hearing the announcement, the world over knows you as the levitating guru. Then you shoot a commercial in which you sit there, drink a red bull, levitate, and chant "red bull gives you wings", and each year, red bull deposits 15 million dollars in your account for exclusive advertising rights.

 

Or they kill you, because the real thing would be too hard for many to wrap their minds around.

 

"He's the antichrist!"

 

You never know.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Or they kill you, because the real thing would be too hard for many to wrap their minds around.

 

"He's the antichrist!"

 

You never know.

 

So fly away?

 

Use your powers/money/legions of cult followers to protect you.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Apech]

- Watch out! It's the flying anti-Christ!

 

- Where? Where?

 

- Oh you can't see him he's transparent.

 

This thread gets a special TTBs Gold Star.

[Sloppy Zhang]

- Watch out! It's the flying anti-Christ!

 

- Where? Where?

 

- Oh you can't see him he's transparent.

 

This thread gets a special TTBs Gold Star.

 

[johndoe2012]

Sloppy: you apparently hold science to the highest regard. Well, scientists are not 100% honest as they will publish articles with experiments that cannot be validated. I know because I have seen such articles first hand.

 

Science is a framework where our understanding can change tomorrow because of a fundamental breakthrough. Science will understand everything one day, granted the scientists behind it are 100% honest. This requires looking into your thoughts eliminating bias which very, very few scientists are capable of. My experience is mainly with engineers in a company.

 

You also have to understand economics and social engineering to understand why there is a lot of bias against spiritual claims.

 

You yourself said your third eye is opening, so what are you complaining about?

 

The Taoists mapped the mind-body connection and the Buddhist the mind. This is also science so I cannot see why you put such emphasis on Western science with it's current emphasis on producing results that can lead to quick commercialization.

[johndoe2012]

You are now set for life. You no longer have to worry about money. You can focus on spiritual pursuits. Or enjoy your cash. If you care about spreading teachings, you have a very good way to do so. If you don't care about that stuff, you can just spend your money.

 

*If* the law of karma is real, could there be karmic consequences? How can our linear non-cultivated mind perceive the consequences? Maybe an enlightened person knows and will not follow your suggestion.

 

I think something like you suggest could only happen on a grand scale such as a world wide event that cannot be covered up in media and by government. An equivalent to aliens from outer space descending to Earth

[Aetherous]

Another thing: what if energy has intelligence, and siddhis don't work when your energy is saying "no" for whatever reason? This may read like an excuse, but I've found it to be true. Miraculous events only tend to happen sometimes...not always when we choose.

[Aetherous]

- Watch out! It's the flying anti-Christ!

 

- Where? Where?

 

- Oh you can't see him he's transparent.

 

Prove it!

 

[Lucky7Strikes]

I don't know what Kan and Max have to gain by this, except to create a mass trance induction so as to make it easier to recruit more students. Further, Max has the most impressive resume of anyone who has ever lived. Master of Tibetan Buddhism, Mongolian Shamanism, received the highest teachings from the Red Willow Society in the Taos NM pueblo (nobody has ever heard of this group), Egyptian Magic and tea ceremony master among other abilities. Last but not least, the all important extra DNA strands.

Just go take his classes and do the practices to see if they are fake or not.

 

It's that simple.

 

The practice works. It is incredible. End of story.

 

Max doesn't ask anything in return, except for 25 bucks an hour for a whole weekend of his time and to support himself. That's not much.

 

As for the photos, the Karmapa has a similar thing going on, so call him a fake too eh?

Edited October 18, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[ralis]

Just go take his classes and do the practices to see if they are fake or not.

 

It's that simple.

 

The practice works. It is incredible. End of story.

 

Max doesn't ask anything in return, except for 25 bucks an hour for a whole weekend of his time and to support himself. That's not much.

 

As for the photos, the Karmapa has a similar thing going on, so call him a fake too eh?

 

You really don't know how to critique what is put forth by others! Further, I never said anything about the Karmapa being a fake. He was a real person. The photo of him being transparent looks like a faulty image. We are discussing auric images here and the validity of. If you care to comment on the Karmapa and the Kan photos, then do it! Using vacant emotional arguments will not work.

 

ralis

[joeblast]

Randi is not the be all end all of science (Randi has been discussed at length here and on other places, in fact, there are a couple loopholes that Randi has in order to escape from someone who stands at risk to win. First and foremost, the part in the rules that states BOTH parties must agree. The scientists in Randi's employ are not the arbiters of what constitutes a proper scientific experiment, Randi is, and if Randi stands to lose, he can back out. Of course, that's not what HE says, but it's in the rules).

 

Regardless: perhaps you (and others) should take a look at this list which names several organizations and groups that have offered money prizes for proof of paranormal. Notice how many have been collected on? Uh huh, that's right, none.

 

For all the gurus running around claiming your system can give you powers, for all the 16 year olds that have been trying every day to go super saiyan, for all the psychics claiming they have powers, NO ONE has succeeded. Not. A. One.

 

And why should they? They get a constant stream of money and popularity just TALKING ABOUT what they can do. They never actually have to DEMONSTRATE it. People believe them ALREADY. And WHY, you ask? Because if you ask for a demonstration, it shows 1) you have no faith 2) you're obviously unwilling to do the work yourself.

 

Nevermind that someone who could actually do it would get 1) tons of money 2) world wide recognition 3) who knows mow many BILLIONS in endorsements.

 

Think about this: you, succeed in levitating in a scientific experiment. You get instant money from the organization(s) you just bested. Upon hearing the announcement, the world over knows you as the levitating guru. Then you shoot a commercial in which you sit there, drink a red bull, levitate, and chant "red bull gives you wings", and each year, red bull deposits 15 million dollars in your account for exclusive advertising rights.

 

You are now set for life. You no longer have to worry about money. You can focus on spiritual pursuits. Or enjoy your cash. If you care about spreading teachings, you have a very good way to do so. If you don't care about that stuff, you can just spend your money.

 

 

And there you have it. Set for life.

*shakes head, chuckles*

[Sloppy Zhang]

Sloppy: you apparently hold science to the highest regard.

 

No, I do not. And I know a lot about how science can be just as flawed, and can be used for political/economic purposes, just as spirituality can be used.

 

You yourself said your third eye is opening, so what are you complaining about?

 

I don't know what's happening

 

And I'm not complaining. I'm just responding to something in a critical fashion.

 

The Taoists mapped the mind-body connection and the Buddhist the mind. This is also science so I cannot see why you put such emphasis on Western science with it's current emphasis on producing results that can lead to quick commercialization.

 

I put emphasis on results PERIOD. You can use it for commercialization if you choose to, or you can choose not to. My point is: where are the results? If all these practices work and produce real effects, where are they? Some people are offering money just for demonstrating something in their presence. All you gotta do is show up, get some cameras rolling, and knock someone over with qi. Or clairvoyantly see what's on the other side of the room.

 

Places like the Monroe Institute offer sessions where you can come and be put into a state that is good to have an OBE. For all the people who have OBE's, can not ONE of them correctly see what's in a place they have no way of physically knowing?

 

People in spiritual communities are quick to jump to "higher level things." Saying things like, "I don't want to mess around with lower level phenomena, like clairvoyance. I'd rather focus on cultivating myself and helping others to do the same."

 

OH REALLY now? You know what would go a long way towards doing that? PROVING that there are non-physical aspects to the human being, and that those non-physical aspects are capable of receiving information that corresponds to a physical reality. THAT would get your message out, and would prompt people to start cultivating.

 

First things first people!

 

*If* the law of karma is real, could there be karmic consequences? How can our linear non-cultivated mind perceive the consequences? Maybe an enlightened person knows and will not follow your suggestion.

 

Yeah, karma is just so convenient isn't it. Not saying that it can't be real. It's just convenient how it always steps in to prevent someone from doing something.

 

I think something like you suggest could only happen on a grand scale such as a world wide event that cannot be covered up in media and by government. An equivalent to aliens from outer space descending to Earth

 

If millions of people queue up on the internet to watch some kitty trying to fight with a printer....... the point is, the media is a powerful tool. Once you put something out there, it's very, VERY hard to cover it up. The MOST people can do is try to spin it in another direction. Accuse it of this or that. Basically PR tricks. Which can easily be countered by other PR tricks. So..... yeah.

 

Cover ups, and being killed by conservative religious groups, and blah blah blah all seem pretty small time to mucho spiritual powerz that some people profess to have.

 

Another thing: what if energy has intelligence, and siddhis don't work when your energy is saying "no" for whatever reason? This may read like an excuse, but I've found it to be true. Miraculous events only tend to happen sometimes...not always when we choose.

 

Just like karma: not saying it ain't true, it's just really convenient!

 

The practice works. It is incredible. End of story.

 

What does it do? Make you feel good? That's nice. Eating cookies makes me feel good. Does it activate some heaven eye? Does it make you immortal? Claims like this can easily be verified.

 

If there is a legitimate claim being made, then it needs to be legitimately verified. Not feebly supported by half assed photos that could be replicated by any schmuck with a camera.

 

*shakes head, chuckles*

 

You're just jealous because you haven't thought of it before

 

 

 

Now look, I'm all for practices that make you feel good. I'm all for people thinking like they've become a better person. I'm all for love and unity and working together for a better tomorrow. Emotional and mental health is very important. The issues that I'm going through (which you can see in my thread) are not "objective" in nature. I can't go into a lab and demonstrate that I'm being bothered. But I'm being bothered, and it's real as hell! But again, that's subjective. Maybe if someone who can perceive energy takes a look at me, they can tell me exactly what the deal is. But it's not like they'd be able to scientifically prove it either. So there are limits to what we can prove scientifically even for things we know to be true through direct experience. And I get that.

 

But if you are going to make a claim that something can happen which contradicts all of our testable knowledge about the universe so far, then you need to put it to the test in order to have some kind of credibility to your claim. Otherwise it's about as credible as the pink unicorn that is telling me the addresses of where all of you live and I dare you to prove me wrong.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[ralis]

There are some here that are interested in cutting through the fake crap that is put forth as authentic! The true believer as part of a mass movement, will always admonish the outsider for asking serious questions. Why? The outsiders critique is seen as a threat to a tenuous belief system. The belief system is not based on reality or proof and is based on emotional tenets. Further, one who truly pursues a chosen avenue of spiritual practice, must question without fail, extraordinary claims. If the claims hold true, then there is no problem.