Gold Dragon Body Photos

[Astral_Anima]

so wait, has anyone here actually SEEN, first hand, Max or Kan do this transparency act? since none of us can bring forth any empirical evidence to prove either yes or no, I believe testimony would be the best method of verification (after a cross examination and counterpoint of course). Since Ralis apparently has the word of a professional that these photos look "tampered with", it seems there's a likelyhood that the photos may be fakes. However we ARE talking about an ability that hasn't yet been properly defined. Is this invisibility? Max says it's when we shift from matter to energy. If we are to believe that, however, one must question why Kan's CLOTHES are transparent as well, as they are not part of the body.

 

Another interesting possibility is that these photos were purposely photoshopped to prove a point or to try to convey what Kunlun masters think is hard to convey. If this were the case, however, we should have an open testimony by Max, Kan, Mantra68, or some other Kunluner to say that this is the case. There's no point in lying if their intent was to purposely fake the photos to try to convey a concept.

 

Another possibility is that the camera has a hard time tracking what is going and causes a similar effect as this photoshop technique (although thats rather convenient and quite suspect). Since (according to Max) the body would be turning from dense matter to energy or light, it must be considered what such a process would look like to the human eye. I personally have no idea but perhaps someone can fill in this information.

 

Ultimately I don't believe there is enough knowledge on this subject to make any conclusions just yet. A question that I have is does the GDB grant physical immortality? In time maybe we'll know more. Until then it may be best to ask some accomplished kunlun practitioners about such matters.

 

-Astral

Edited October 21, 2010 by Astral_Anima

[ralis]

I'm still not satisfied. I'd like to see this redone by someone using photoshop. There are things which seem hard to do. For instance, look in the first picture. Kan appears to be fading out in different areas, but the chair behind him isn't at all...it's solid. How could that effect be achieved?

 

I'm not asking for someone to make up an answer...I'm really asking something challenging: emulate the photos accurately and share it here!

 

Until then, I remain a skeptic.

 

Obviously you are not acquainted with what photoshop can accomplish. One can manipulate any part of a photo and make it look authentic. For example, one could lift the image of Kan off the chair, manipulate the image and put him back on the chair. There are apps to make images transparent. One can switch heads on two people and make it appear authentic. Photoshop is not kiddy play software and is very expensive. Why not check out Adobe Photoshop and see for yourself.

Edited October 21, 2010 by ralis

[Aetherous]

Obviously you are not acquainted with what photoshop can accomplish. One can manipulate any part of a photo and make it look authentic. For example, one could lift the image of Kan off the chair, manipulate the image and put him back on the chair. There are apps to make images transparent. One can switch heads on two people and make it appear authentic. Photoshop is not kiddy play software and is very expensive. Why not check out Adobe Photoshop and see for yourself.

 

I've used photoshop...although I'm not skilled at it. Actually, thinking more about it, I think you're right.

 

The doubt still lingers in my mind, though...

[Astral_Anima]

Upon further examination of the photos I think It would be a good idea to post some photoshoped pics using the said effect and compare the photos. I don't have any photoshop exp so I would like to see what is possible to help determine the likelihood of Kan's pics being real/fake.

 

-Astral

[Aetherous]

If we are to believe that, however, one must question why Kan's CLOTHES are transparent as well, as they are not part of the body.

 

We are told to wear long sleeves in order to retain energy. Clothes act as our "second skin".

 

This is just practice related, though...not necessarily an explanation for anything to do with GDB.

[balance.]

Why is it so vital to prove or disprove the veracity of these images?

 

Why is it so necessary to know the "truth"? I'm not saying that the purported genuine nature of these images ought to be taken on faith, but I'm surprised to see that they have caused so great a stir, especially as we can't possibly hope glean or gain anything of substance from them by arguing.

 

So what if they're real? Would everyone jump on the Kunlun bandwagon? Would all the naysayers and doubters repent? Would all those sharks who come to gather when it looks as if the name of Max and Kunlun might be besmirched, disperse?

 

Is there anything really to be gained here?

 

 

 

Wouldn't cultivating be more worthwhile?

 

 

 

 

balance.

 

 

 

*as an afterthought... Why must we be presented with facts and evidence before we commit? Is there no self-efficacy in practice?

Edited October 21, 2010 by balance.

[Astral_Anima]

Why is it so vital to prove or disprove the veracity of these images?

 

Why is it so necessary to know the "truth"? I'm not saying that the purported genuine nature of these images ought to be taken on faith, but I'm surprised to see that they have caused so great a stir, especially as we can't possibly hope glean or gain anything of substance from them by arguing.

 

So what if they're real? Would everyone jump on the Kunlun bandwagon? Would all the naysayers and doubters repent? Would all those sharks who come to gather when it looks as if the name of Max and Kunlun might be besmirched, disperse?

 

Is there anything really to be gained here?

 

 

 

Wouldn't cultivating be more worthwhile?

 

 

 

 

balance.

 

Balance- Were the times different then perhaps you would be right. In these times however there are many "wolves in sheeps clothing", false gurus just trying to get people's money. As most of us seem to be serious about our cultivation methods we don't want to waste time (and money) practicing "false" methods (i speak for myself, not everyone). Obviously there must be ways to verify whether kunlun is a valuable method and whether it's attainments are true.

 

First of all I will say I've experienced interesting things through kunlun, and that was without daily practice, so it may indeed be something of worth, however when you choose a method it's best not to have any doubt or confusion about the method or your teacher. In this case since one has to practice 6months just to see Max and the facilitators don't show any kind of ability at all then it can be viewed as having to wait 6 months to see if this practice is even worth doing. Also Kan has only bee doing kunlun less than 10 years so if one year (requirement for facilitator)doesn't reap any rewards then it's extremely discouraging.

 

Counterpoint: What Max teaches isn't nearly the extent of his abilities. He teaches yi-gong and RP to bring people to enlightenment stage so that if he does teach them thunder magic or other special abilities then they are less likely to misuse/abuse it. If yi-gong means mind work, perhaps kunlun is more about cultivating/refining charactor and the abilities come later. If this is the case then i would say it's probably one of the better methods as it makes more sense to balance mind and heart before introducing power, otherwise you make monster

[ralis]

Balance- Were the times different then perhaps you would be right. In these times however there are many "wolves in sheeps clothing", false gurus just trying to get people's money. As most of us seem to be serious about our cultivation methods we don't want to waste time (and money) practicing "false" methods (i speak for myself, not everyone). Obviously there must be ways to verify whether kunlun is a valuable method and whether it's attainments are true.

 

First of all I will say I've experienced interesting things through kunlun, and that was without daily practice, so it may indeed be something of worth, however when you choose a method it's best not to have any doubt or confusion about the method or your teacher. In this case since one has to practice 6months just to see Max and the facilitators don't show any kind of ability at all then it can be viewed as having to wait 6 months to see if this practice is even worth doing. Also Kan has only bee doing kunlun less than 10 years so if one year (requirement for facilitator)doesn't reap any rewards then it's extremely discouraging.

 

Counterpoint: What Max teaches isn't nearly the extent of his abilities. He teaches yi-gong and RP to bring people to enlightenment stage so that if he does teach them thunder magic or other special abilities then they are less likely to misuse/abuse it. If yi-gong means mind work, perhaps kunlun is more about cultivating/refining charactor and the abilities come later. If this is the case then i would say it's probably one of the better methods as it makes more sense to balance mind and heart before introducing power, otherwise you make monster

 

 

I know facilitators who have been practicing diligently for 4 years . Some healing has happened. However, no third eye awakening or unusual powers.

 

I have been practicing Kunlun and RP for 10 months and all I have are bizarre nightmares.

[Aetherous]

however when you choose a method it's best not to have any doubt or confusion about the method or your teacher

 

Are you sure?

[Aetherous]

However, no third eye awakening or unusual powers.

 

Are you sure?

[Astral_Anima]

Are you sure?

 

Well I speak from experience. Personally I doubt alot of practices and tend to switch between them which doesn't get me anywhere. I started with mo pai, then decided I'd probably never get anywhere because the teacher was in recluse so I went to kunlun, then I hear things like Max cant affect anyone except his students with his "powers", making it seems like subjectivity molding the minds of the weak and hopeful, and then we have this GDB controversy. Makes me want to rob a bank to go visit Verdesi and see if he can introduce me to a teacher that isn't afraid to prove himself to me so that i can be confident that his method works. I've been to Reiki practitioners, and had people do energy healings and personally i've never felt anything from it, it just seems like utter BS. At the same time though I don't want to just give up and miss out on finding the method(s) that work(s).

 

When you feel confident about your method you'll stick with it. Simple. You wont be disturbed by thoughts liek 'is this the right method'? 'is this even doing anything'? Usually it's better to quiet the mind instead of leaving room for these thoughts to arise wouldn't you agree?

 

-Astral

[ralis]

Are you sure?

 

Yes! I ask serious questions of anyone I study with. I am not naive when it comes to these pursuits. Further, if there is any hint that a teacher is playing games, I can usually detect it. I happen to be a very good poker player and that gives me an advantage in reading people.

[ralis]

then I hear things like Max cant affect anyone except his students with his "powers", making it seems like subjectivity molding the minds of the weak and hopeful,

 

-Astral

 

I have seen a video of Max working with someone just off the street. He had no effect on him whatsoever! However, he had incredible power over his students whom he initiated.

[balance.]

Well I speak from experience. Personally I doubt alot of practices and tend to switch between them which doesn't get me anywhere. I started with mo pai, then decided I'd probably never get anywhere because the teacher was in recluse so I went to kunlun, then I hear things like Max cant affect anyone except his students with his "powers", making it seems like subjectivity molding the minds of the weak and hopeful, and then we have this GDB controversy. Makes me want to rob a bank to go visit Verdesi and see if he can introduce me to a teacher that isn't afraid to prove himself to me so that i can be confident that his method works. I've been to Reiki practitioners, and had people do energy healings and personally i've never felt anything from it, it just seems like utter BS. At the same time though I don't want to just give up and miss out on finding the method(s) that work(s).

 

When you feel confident about your method you'll stick with it. Simple. You wont be disturbed by thoughts liek 'is this the right method'? 'is this even doing anything'? Usually it's better to quiet the mind instead of leaving room for these thoughts to arise wouldn't you agree?

 

-Astral

 

 

I think it was Ya Mu who said "A smooth mountain is difficult to climb" .... Disruption, obstacle and suffering are necessary components of practice and necessary catalysts for growth. The easy path leads ever downward into stagnation.

 

And if you're so concerned about the efficacy of a path, why not make things easier on yourself and settle upon Zen or Buddhism? They both have quite the track record... Shikan-taza was good enough for Shakyamuni.

 

Have you ever considered that the constant questioning of your "path" is just a ploy by the ego to derail your practice? You said yourself, the switching doesn't get you anywhere. Why not commit to a practice and learn to still the the doubt machine in your mind? Or you can continue to roam the spiritual streets waiting to be wowed by some master who thinks the best students will be attracted by the performance of fireworks.

 

 

 

And you "started" with Mo Pai? For how long did you practice under Chang before you decided that it was no good for you?

Edited October 21, 2010 by balance.

[Astral_Anima]

I think it was Ya Mu who said "A smooth mountain is difficult to climb" .... Disruption, obstacle and suffering are necessary components of practice and necessary catalysts for growth. The easy path leads ever downward into stagnation.

 

And if you're so concerned about the efficacy of a path, why not make things easier on yourself and settle upon Zen or Buddhism? They both have quite the track record...

 

Have you ever considered that the constant questioning of your "path" is just a ploy by the ego to derail your practice? You said yourself, the switching doesn't get you anywhere. Why not commit and learn to silence the doubt machine in your mind? Or you can continue to roam the spiritual streets waiting to be wowed by some master who thinks the best students will be attracted by the performance of fireworks.

 

 

 

And you "started" with Mo Pai? For how long did you practice under Chang before you decided that it was no good for you?

 

It's not about being "wowed" I already accept the possibility of many things. If i were to meet someone who could actually do something my reaction wouldn't be "wow" it'd be "FINALLY", lol. The problem is if I decide to settle for the method of some smooth talker then I get tricked into believing in a false method. For example, lets say I follow kunlun because of stories of this and that and because Max talks a fair game; but then lets say it turns out that Max is a fraud who studied texts of ancient cultivation and just knew how to lie really well (to get money) because he was well informed; Then I would have wasted an unknown number of months/years (and dollars) doing something that got me nowhere.

 

And i'm sorry but i don't believe that logic is this evil ego thats stopping me from achieving my goals. I've tried following my heart before and it almost ended me up in jail; I was lucky enough to wake up to the REAL WORLD and learn to use my head instead.

 

I am currently trying to work on my discipline, reasoning/deductive abilities, silent meditation and awareness of how things effect me. Buddhism is something i'm integrating but i'm looking for an energetic practice to compliment it. Problem with buddhism is that it seems to ignore the body.

 

I didn't study with Chang directly, only with one of his students. I didn't practice long either, maybe a month? I decided it was better not to commit to a method that may end up being a dead end, which in reality is a pretty lame excuse, lol, but I had kunlun to back it up. Unfortunately I keep fighting in my head between the two. Obviously just picking one would be easier, but I still haven't decided which one's for me.......actually...I think i just have......wow, how interesting, haha, having a revelation mid-sentance.

 

but anyway I think this is alittle off topic of the post don't you? If you want to discuss this further i suggest you do it via PM or start a new post with a title relevant to the topic being discussed. It's better to keep TTB organized so people looking for information via this site can more easily access it

 

-Astral

[balance.]

The truths of the heart are greater than the truths of the mind... and you won't find the real world by thinking with your head.

 

 

While it's certainly good to be discerning, the ego is ever-cunning.

 

 

 

And I'll say it again.. Isn't there self-efficacy in practice? Can't you feel yourself changing after spending days/weeks/months/years diligently practicing the offerings of a particular path? This is what I keep trying to get at. I don't think a teacher should be expected to rob a student of his opportunity to overcome, surpass and learn to let go of his fears and doubts and insecurities... I feel that this is an important component of whatever path you should choose to commit yourself and your time to... and I also think you'll find it in each and every practice you look to hoping not to find it... Regardless, at some point you need to decide what is important to you along the spiritual path, and then commit. Energetics are not always an indication of depth in progress.

 

 

 

best.

 

 

 

 

balance.

Edited October 21, 2010 by balance.

[Guest paul walter]

I'm still not satisfied. I'd like to see this redone by someone using photoshop. There are things which seem hard to do. For instance, look in the first picture. Kan appears to be fading out in different areas, but the chair behind him isn't at all...it's solid. How could that effect be achieved?

 

I'm not asking for someone to make up an answer...I'm really asking something challenging: emulate the photos accurately and share it here!

 

Until then, I remain a skeptic.

 

 

Because the chair doesn't move the chair doesn't 'ghost', only moving things do this. So the next question is if he's busy disappearing then why is he taking a walk out of the frame he so assiduously set up?.

It's like when these things were first done in the nineteenth century-because very few knew the technology many accepted what they were told(not necessarily shown) the pictures were. I'm not criticising you Scotty for what you 'see' but it's got to be pointed out that it's disturbing in this advanced media/image run culture that such simple effects are still not understood or 'seen' for what they are. We have no real hope with the latest technology which is much more 'invisible' to us (to me too). Paul

[Guest paul walter]

Upon further examination of the photos I think It would be a good idea to post some photoshoped pics using the said effect and compare the photos. I don't have any photoshop exp so I would like to see what is possible to help determine the likelihood of Kan's pics being real/fake.

 

-Astral

 

 

 

You can literally find such photos anywhere. It is a time tested effect in photography that lots of people play around with. Paul

[ralis]

The truths of the heart are greater than the truths of the mind... and you won't find the real world by thinking with your head.

 

 

While it's certainly good to be discerning, the ego is ever-cunning.

 

 

 

 

 

Ego bashing is a worn out and irrelevant argument. Ego is a Freudian term and adds nothing relevant to any spiritual discussion.

[Guest paul walter]

I know facilitators who have been practicing diligently for 4 years . Some healing has happened. However, no third eye awakening or unusual powers.

 

I have been practicing Kunlun and RP for 10 months and all I have are bizarre nightmares.

Then stop, and just go empty, let things settle and calm down-does the same thing but safer. Paul

[C T]

Buddhism is something i'm integrating but i'm looking for an energetic practice to compliment it. Problem with buddhism is that it seems to ignore the body.

 

Hi Astral..

 

Good to hear that you are integrating Buddhist practices into your own. Not too accurate though to think that Buddhism seems to ignore the body. There are many sects of Buddhism which places great emphasis on purification through karma yoga, for example. In Tibetan Buddhism, it has been said that doing prostrations is one of the most effective forms of cultivating physical transformation. Its been claimed those who commit to doing a million prostrations in one lifetime, by this alone, would attain to 'rainbow body'. Permanent changes can be seen and felt after the first hundred thousand... Wanna try?

 

This particular Buddhist school/teacher speaks of Yantra Yoga (physical development):

 

This perspective from a Bon teacher:

 

With regards to attaining all the powers we so desire, time is a crucial factor. Brazen is s/he who expects to see permanent results after a few months of output.

 

All the best on your path AA.

 

 

(i really like the general feel behind what Balance has said here. Just wanted to acknowledge this. Cheers, Balance!)

Edited October 21, 2010 by CowTao

[ralis]

Then stop, and just go empty, let things settle and calm down-does the same thing but safer. Paul

 

I have lightened up my practice, considerably.

 

Thanks

[C T]

Ego is a Freudian term and adds nothing relevant to any spiritual discussion.

Neither is waiting for Padmasambhava to appear in the back seat of your truck.

[Guest paul walter]

So in summary--the only thing posting those photos have done is to make the waters murkier and consolidate the 'mystery'/reputation of Kunlun. All the people who know the technology have said they think they are fake or could be faked and those who don't know the technology and/or want to do Kunlun have said otherwise. In the meantime Kan is off the hook, Kunlun has more publicity and the state of mind such practices rely on for wow-factor power has been increased through being no closer to a 'rational' agreement. We have all been put in different corners and are either defending ourselves (what we see) or those we have never met and things we have never experienced. As I said earlier about frauds etc one can see how it all fits together nicely, the only one not being 'fingered' is the one responsible for the images--welcome to the information democracy. Vive le chaos! Paul

[ralis]

Neither is waiting for Padmasambhava to appear in the back seat of your truck.

 

I said the front seat of my truck.