Tao versus Tao

[Everything]

The 23th verse of Tao te Ching got me thinking about what Tao is and got writing food for thought here.

 

The first paragraph talks about the nature of humans:

"Abstaining from speech marks him who is obeying the

spontaneity of his nature. A violent wind does not last for

a whole morning; a sudden rain does not last for the

whole day. To whom is it that these (two) things are

owing? To Heaven and Earth. If Heaven and Earth

cannot make such (spasmodic) actings last long, how

much less can man!"Weakning hearts and strengthening bones.

I wonder what this first paragraph's value is for the 2nd and 3th. I think it supports a world wherein everyone has diffrent believes, and we just cope with it by not making speeches, no commercials, no brain washing, just an understanding of the nature of our believes and how they work. Becoming a witness to these, and not act upon them. Not making wars because you think everything should be like that and not this. Discussing matters without judgement. Noticing that opposites depend on eachother. Making decisions based upon balance, how you treat everyone and how everyone treats you. In what way does this translate to politics? Give up your believes and choosing sides, your own nature is already good.

 

 

The 2nd paragraph is where people related to the Tao is compared:

"Therefore when one is making the Tao his business,

those who are also pursuing it, agree with him in it, and

those who are making the manifestation of its course

their object agree with him in that; while even those who

are failing in both these things agree with him where

they fail."This is not only so for Tao, but also faith and believe. There was a saying: that two pillows with diffrent believes, the devil sleeps in between. OR something like that. When two people have the same believe, they agree with everything and can easily compare their lives and goals. The diffrent believes out there even exists among Atheists. Even people who call themselves non-believers, even they have some kind of believe.

 

The 3th paragraph goes even deeper into all this:

"Hence, those with whom he agrees as to the Tao have the

happiness of attaining to it; those with whom he agrees

as to its manifestation have the happiness of attaining to

it; and those with whom he agrees in their failure have

also the happiness of attaining (to the Tao). (But) when

there is not faith sufficient (on his part), a want of faith

(in him) ensues (on the part of the others)."

The tao has many manifestations. As many as the minagination can think of. Your believe forms a map of your reality, a simplified map. A complex map is harder to use and read then a simple model of the world in the form of a simple map with roads and street names, etc. Like google earth satelite, versus map. Same with believes. Those who challenge your believes is a threat to your reality, the ground you stand upon, your everything. This is why people with diffrent believes cannot happily attain their goals together. This is why there are wars, and will allways be wars untill everyone has one believe alone. But... If you remove a believe, a lack of faith will make you feel confused and sad, and will even allow the forming of negative believes if not cautious. This is why EMDR techniques require professional counseling and trying to change someone believes aswell. It doesn't matter what the Tao is, or what your believes are. This is always true, it is our nature as described in this verse. A want of faith is everywhere these days, and many people take advantage of that. All the self-help industry who promise all kinds of impossible things, giving false hope to the faithless.

 

Vietnam veterans, who had trauma's in vietnam, had their believes changed. They addepted to vietnam. This is a good thing, they could function better, and survive easier then newcomers. But when you go back home... You still have the old believe, the old reality of vietnam... You cannot function anymore in a normal civilization, you get knee reflexes when you hear airplaines, you take cover when there is no danger... This is a torment. But trying to change these deeply engrained believes is a torment aswell. You have to chainsaw the negative emotional energy away from the ideas. Cutting the trauma's.

 

The Tao is an idea where upon positive emotional energy is superglued. The stronger ones faith, the more positive emotional energy upon his idea of the Tao. He can conquer the world and endure better then most. He will find motivation within and not without. But you can't just say to someone "Hey, no worry, be happy. We got the Tao" He will simply see the idea behind the believe, but not the emotion. This is why the wise don't speak, and those who speak are not wise. They cause conflict, wars... If you're trying out any new believe, never speak of it, even if it is the truth. Let everything unfold by itself and you will see people are soon taking over your newly acquired believe. "We are as we are by our selves!" And when the work is done, how no one can see... 'Tis this that makes the power not cease to be.

 

I think inspiration and forming new believes or inspiring someone is a matter of art. You have to get all the positive energy related to some idea or concept. This is done with commercials, but they form limiting believes, even tho they are related to positive emotional energy. Like "buy more! More is happy!" They don't say "Please support our product, but be aware, if you buy too much you are contributing to the destruction of the Earth."

 

One thing remains true, believes are dificult to speak of. I am stupid to do so.

 

Thanks for reading, feel free to comment.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Everything

[Marblehead]

Hi Everything,

 

Interesting thoughts and comments to the chapters.

 

Yes, beliefs are one of the hardest things to change of a person. Our beliefs give us security. If we loose our beliefs we loose our security and we think that this leaves us vulnerable to the many harmful things in life.

[Birch]

"Our beliefs give us security. If we loose our beliefs we loose our security and we think that this leaves us vulnerable to the many harmful things in life."

 

When "in fact"?

 

I won't be putting the punchline I want to on your post Mr MH. Tempted, but I won't.

[Marblehead]

I won't be putting the punchline I want to on your post Mr MH. Tempted, but I won't.

 

Oh, go ahead on. I sometimes say things incomplete simply to beg a response from others.

[Birch]

Oh, go ahead on. I sometimes say things incomplete simply to beg a response from others.

 

 

----gnashing of teeth------

[Brian]

...

[Marblehead]

"... when in fact the many harmful things in life are indifferent to our beliefs."

 

That was very good. (Sounds like "straw dogs" stuff.)

[Everything]

"... when in fact the many harmful things in life are indifferent to our beliefs."

 

There aren't many harmful things in life the days where we live in. Our beliefs are the cause of most of the harm. Most of the war. Most of the destruction on the planet. Most of the depressions and eating disorders, unhealthy behaviours, self-destructive behaviours. People make decisions based upon there own believes, without knowing so. They are asleep, and slowly turning the waking life into a nightmare.

 

Why do we have these emotions and strong believes? Why do we need to be afraid of certain things? Is it a heritage that is no longer useful in our day and age? You could say so... Our Stress mechanism is no longer useful, because it activates harmful chemicals into the body that is no longer useful for survival. It changes brain chemistry in a way that makes us impulsive in order to make on the fly decisions. You get fight/flight reflexes while there is no danger! We no longer take a moment to become a witness to the believe systems in our life that limit us and harm us. These fight/flight reflexes, for survival, paradoxicly makes us do all kinds of suicidal stuff like overspent, over eat, over gamble, etc... The things that are there for our own survival are killing us!

 

I must disagree with you. The harmful things in life always finds its way to those who have the wrong believes. Those who expect diffrent results when doing exactly the same... Everyday... This is insanity.

[Brian]

...

[Everything]

I largely agree with you but I think our points are sort of orthogonal; you are talking about our reaction to or preparedness for "the harmful things in life" while I am talking about the reaction of the harmful things to our beliefs. A couple of examples might help to illustrate my point here.

 

Let's take the current cholera outbreak in Haiti, for instance. Cholera is a bacteria largely controlled by a naturally occuring bacteriophage. This bacteria doesn't care whether the human it has entered believes in Vodoo, Catholicism, Marxism, Scientology, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism or the Invisible Pink Unicorn. It will multiply within its host until it is stopped by its own natural predator, a virus that attacks that specific bacteria (even the bugs have bugs...) The host's survival depends on a number of factors, including that person's immune system, basic health, etc. A person may strengthen their resistance and improve their chances of survival as a result of the choices made because of their beliefs but the bacteria (the harmful thing in this scenario) doesn't care one way or the other -- it is indifferent.

 

Another example -- suppose I am walking with my family along a downtown sidewalk in my hometown when a passing motorist, texting while driving, jumps the curb. The outcome may vary based upon my beliefs (whether, for instance, I believe passing motorists pose no threat and therefor pay no attention or I believe they are supremely dangerous and am constantly on alert for this scenario, or perhaps whether I believe it is my duty to place myself alongside the curb in effort to protect my family.) My beliefs may or may not better prepare me for this situation and that preparation may or may not actually influence the outcome but neither the inattentive motorist nor the vehicle careening off the curb (the harmful things in this scenario) are aware of or significantly affected by my religious or philosophical musings. Both the car and the inattentive driver are indifferent to my beliefs.

 

Hehe I understand where you're going with this. As I said, most of the harm in the world are not these kinds of harm. Heart disease, caused by self-destructive behaviour and commercial brainwashing, is now a more common death then starvation from sortage of food since 2000. I don't see many people die from accidents these days, I see more death's in wars, espcially the big wars of the past, the wars of today, the possible wars of tomorrow, all caused by men afflicted upon themselves.

 

These kind of deaths, from a nature point of view, can be seen as nature balancing itself out. These days, we use the laws of nature to artificially increase our maximum population perhaps to the point where we will even take down the earth with us when we reach our maximum, because this time it is not a milion people... Unless we get infinite sun energy or something and don't nuke ourselves with that, lol.

 

Taking away the fact that those believes you mentioned were religions and not believes, but I know what you mean. The cholera is also largely caused by a belief that we have to burry the dead together. The dead bodies, the soil and water, and thus spread the disease upon everyone in many regions on Earth. They had to get all these bodies digged out and removed. Would it have been better to burn them in the first place, or feed the dead to animals? Far fetched, but it still shows how strong our believes has impact on the decisions made by people. We don't make decisions only based on intellectual ground, but emotion aswell. while infact emotions are only indications of our personal needs and not for the benefit of the entire planet...

 

I do agree that the moment of harm, when it has arrived, will be totally indifrent to your believes. You may change it, but it will have been too late...

 

Direct harm can be prevented only best by the fight/flight reflexes of your body and mind. It shows that these are still usefull even today, because direct harm is something that will never completely go away. But I have to say again, fight/flight reflexes are also destroying many lifes.

Edited October 24, 2010 by Everything