I wana be blunt and ask a question?

[mewtwo]

So I was wondering if you guys feel comfortable saying, so who is gay or bi on this forum?

 

I am gay just incase you all dont remeber.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USsYq0tJ27c

[Marblehead]

I am straight but too old to do anything about it anymore.

 

I used to have a big problem with the reality that there are gay and bi people on this planet. Afterall, I was raised a Christian.

 

I think I can honestly say that I am over that problem now - have been for about twenty years.

[Birch]

I think if I were a man then I'd be a gay man. I love them

[Brian]

I think if I were a man then I'd be a gay man. I love them

 

I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body. OK, not really...

 

BTW, did you know that the residents of the island of Lesbos are quite upset about the highjacking of their nationality and are mounting an effort to get the term for homosexual females changed to something else? So far, their campaign is not working too well.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Who is gay or bi? Who carez? Is this Taoist discussion or off topic? Does being gay mean your chi is somehow different? Who is a pitcher and who is a catcher? Who is butch and who is fem? Was Rock Hudson a Taoist?

 

Think on these things.

[Birch]

Does being gay mean your chi is somehow different?

 

Think on these things.

 

I AM thinking about it. Which implies that I'm not about to go adopt some mainstream viewpoint about what's going on. BTW, from my POV a gay man has more leeway for his male (I'm not saying "masculine" because that's something else IMO) desires to be fulfilled than a straight woman has to fulfill them for him. For me, gay men are desire incarnate.

[Aetherous]

I'm straight, and have some gay acquaintances. They are good people. I don't know what makes them gay, or me straight...if it's something in the mind, in the genes, or whatever. It doesn't matter. What matters is that they aren't treated like shit.

[Marblehead]

What matters is that they aren't treated like shit.

 

That's the bottom line, I think.

 

And as Songs pointed out, for a Taoist it shouldn't matter one way or the other.

[Nebulous Gas]

Who is gay or bi? Who carez? Is this Taoist discussion or off topic? Does being gay mean your chi is somehow different? Who is a pitcher and who is a catcher? Who is butch and who is fem? Was Rock Hudson a Taoist?

 

Think on these things.

 

...yes the acumen...which is why one must wait till things develop before proceeding with...the following;

 

I think if I were a man then I'd be a gay man. I love them

I AM thinking about it. Which implies that I'm not about to go adopt some mainstream viewpoint about what's going on. BTW, from my POV a gay man has more leeway for his male (I'm not saying "masculine" because that's something else IMO) desires to be fulfilled than a straight woman has to fulfill them for him. For me, gay men are desire incarnate.

 

i believe this is a problem...this 'desire incarnate'- i agree tho(not in all cases, some of it is jus trends and the changing relation between men and women, some really are physical/biochemical anomalies). particularly why i have problems with homo/bi sexuality. its an indicator that something is out of control in the system, usually physical desires...homosexuality jus causes a ruckus in my brain.

 

I'm straight, and have some gay acquaintances. They are good people. I don't know what makes them gay, or me straight...if it's something in the mind, in the genes, or whatever. It doesn't matter. What matters is that they aren't treated like shit.

 

...this is difficult...see i know alot of gays, growin up in NYC and all, even lived with one as a child( family friend). so i love them as individuals...however i have a definite problem with that lifestyle and its propagation- the culture if u will. its almost as if they havent observed the self imposed limitations, merely so that they can also disregard a self development issue which (unless we're talkin about the biochemical/physical anomalies) is all i see Homosexuality being... so i dont agree anyone raising a fist or hurling an insult...but i must say im a bit insulted and injured by the parades, and the unacceptable accepted flambouyancy that is throwing things out of balance. it shows me the material world where instant gratification is a must is winning. but its not CAN NOT.

 

we were created as complementary/supplementary beings for one another in more ways than jus the physical lock and key analogy. so like i said earlier its jus an indication of laziness and rampant unchecked desires in a system(s).

 

 

sorry Mewtwo...straight...

 

luh ya man!

 

-Ali

[Mokona]

A gay friend of mine found the parts of himself that contribute to his sexuality, while in meditation and doing introspection. He experiemnted with being staright after he "switched gears" then changed it back. THose are his words though, so I can't verify.

[Marblehead]

...but i must say im a bit insulted and injured by the parades, and the unacceptable accepted flambouyancy that is throwing things out of balance. it shows me the material world where instant gratification is a must is winning.

 

I kinda' agree with you there. That's what I would call over-doing a thing. We generally ruin things when we over-do them.

[goldisheavy]

...this is difficult...see i know alot of gays, growin up in NYC and all, even lived with one as a child( family friend). so i love them as individuals...however i have a definite problem with that lifestyle and its propagation- the culture if u will.

 

What problems are you talking about? Also, why did you pick pink for your message?

[Nebulous Gas]

What problems are you talking about? Also, why did you pick pink for your message?

 

to be honest-id have to temper my response. which would take some time, and i would not like to do because i dont want to provide a false representation of myself-im pretty straight up and not very PC. BUT i do want everyone to feel respected and loved. Also they are pretty much touched upon in my last response. im sure you can do some inference... I didnt throw procreation in there, but to me thats just where one should BEGIN to look at it (or anything)from- nature.

 

as for the color;I like the color pink, always have... especially red hot pink. I DID think it may be hard to read. other than for that...saw no reason not to?i dunno...

may i ask why u ask? how do you feel about teal?

 

 

-Ali

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Kate, I find your romanticizing gay men as 'desire incarnate' as very interesting, and your statement that if you were a man, you'd want to be a gay man very interesting as well. I may be mistaken, but it does seem like you are romanticizing. The state of being of many of the bullied gay teenagers must speak to something. It can't be that easy for many. Not every gay man is a cool creative one. Many remained stuck in an extended period of dismal promiscuity, while many others are capable of healthy relationship. Just like straight men. But to place sexual orientation as the key to cool, I think is misguided, but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

You might be surprised at how sensitive, creative and masculine our self-selected tb population is. There is something in your post that I find irritating, as it implies that straight men are not as capable of what you perceive gay men to be. I think gay men are more feminine, which is probably the quality that attracts you. Have you been around creative, sensitive and attractive men? Maybe you'd be more open-minded about us?

[The Observer]

Overall I agree with Nebulous. All the love and respect in the world to gay/lesbians/bisexuals/transexuals (as well as the whole world!), but it does seem to me like a sign of disharmony in the way of things. Of course you mention this at a college campus or any establishment institution and you are instantly demonized as a homophobe.

[Birch]

Kate, I find your romanticizing gay men as 'desire incarnate' as very interesting, and your statement that if you were a man, you'd want to be a gay man very interesting as well. I may be mistaken, but it does seem like you are romanticizing. The state of being of many of the bullied gay teenagers must speak to something. It can't be that easy for many. Not every gay man is a cool creative one. Many remained stuck in an extended period of dismal promiscuity, while many others are capable of healthy relationship. Just like straight men. But to place sexual orientation as the key to cool, I think is misguided, but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

You might be surprised at how sensitive, creative and masculine our self-selected tb population is. There is something in your post that I find irritating, as it implies that straight men are not as capable of what you perceive gay men to be. I think gay men are more feminine, which is probably the quality that attracts you. Have you been around creative, sensitive and attractive men? Maybe you'd be more open-minded about us?

 

I wasn't intending to irritate. I don't think my post implied "cool creative" or anything "romantic" (although maybe it was the words "desire incarnate" that you found something of that in?)

 

IMO (and small experience with gay friends) a gay man's "issues" stem a lot from the social situations we put him in when he is faced with his desires. I think everyone faces issues related to sexuality, but why on earth should one be bullied for his (or her) sexual preferences?

 

I've also met several gay men who are not "feminine" in any way, although I think I know what you're talking about. I can't figure out if it's "put on" for the "gay culture" (and subcultures) or if there's an actual underlying essence to it (the "chi" if you will)

 

I'm not attracted to women so I wouldn't actually go for a "feminine" man. But it's good to know there's some cool, creative and awesome men on TTB's Bonus if they're buff from doing tai-chi, and qi-gong

[Nebulous Gas]

Kate, did you mean internally or externally "buff?" Maybe one can get internally "buff" from tai chi and qigong, but I notice qigong masters often don't appear externally "buff."

 

pffff speak for yourself, im JACKED...kidding(definetly not even a begginner)

[Mokona]

Kate, did you mean internally or externally "buff?" Maybe one can get internally "buff" from tai chi and qigong, but I notice qigong masters often don't appear externally "buff."

 

I've seen quite a few big bellies and even some poor teeth in some guys with LOTS of energy.

[goonis38]

Hi there,

I am a 39 year old straight lady. Been married 13 years and have had other longterm boyfriends. It's funny it always seems long term. I never get a sexy one night stand...lol

I have had girlfriend that liked me like that without me knowing, this is upsetting. I would rather know, and I wouldn't care. But I don't guess we would of been having sleep overs, and changing our cloths in front of one another. of course this was years ago now...

I know one thing my brother was in the special forces for 25 years, and a snipper... And he has no children, and never been married and he is 51. I don't care if he or anyone else is gay. I love him just the same. And he is still a tuff guy to me. I just wish more people wouldn't be afraid to talk about it. This was a good idea for a thread.

Lots of love... Melanie

[NeiChuan]

Kate, did you mean internally or externally "buff?" Maybe one can get internally "buff" from tai chi and qigong, but I notice qigong masters often don't appear externally "buff."

 

Hm then you'd probably be surprised. Some things I've seen just strength related would appear to be super human haha.

[xakarii]

TheSongsofDistantEarth, on 27 October 2010 - 02:56 PM, said:

Who is gay or bi? Who carez? Is this Taoist discussion or off topic? Does being gay mean your chi is somehow different? Who is a pitcher and who is a catcher? Who is butch and who is fem? Was Rock Hudson a Taoist?

 

Think on these things.

 

 

...yes the acumen...which is why one must wait till things develop before proceeding with...the following;

 

If all is truly Wu, the voidness, in nature. How can the outward manifestation of form be anywhere near as important as the inner physis and experience?

In the ancient world there were no such labels as "gay" or "bi". If someone were to have sex with both men and women they called them a, get this, "Human Being".

 

 

i believe this is a problem...this 'desire incarnate'- i agree tho(not in all cases, some of it is jus trends and the changing relation between men and women, some really are physical/biochemical anomalies). particularly why i have problems with homo/bi sexuality. its an indicator that something is out of control in the system, usually physical desires...homosexuality jus causes a ruckus in my brain.

 

A problem, eh? For whom? Are relationships between people of the same sex "out of control" relative to the rampant adultery and divorce rate of "harmonious" hetero pairings these days?

 

however i have a definite problem with that lifestyle and its propagation- the culture if u will. its almost as if they havent observed the self imposed limitations, merely so that they can also disregard a self development issue which (unless we're talkin about the biochemical/physical anomalies) is all i see Homosexuality being... so i dont agree anyone raising a fist or hurling an insult...but i must say im a bit insulted and injured by the parades, and the unacceptable accepted flambouyancy that is throwing things out of balance. it shows me the material world where instant gratification is a must is winning. but its not CAN NOT.

 

we were created as complementary/supplementary beings for one another in more ways than jus the physical lock and key analogy. so like i said earlier its jus an indication of laziness and rampant unchecked desires in a system(s).

 

sorry Mewtwo...straight...

 

Haven't observed self imposed limitations? From my own point of view that would seem to be a good thing... How exactly does "flambouyancy" (does this mean they're floating and flaming?) throw things out of balance? I'd say with all the foot-stomping, saber-rattling, chest-beating, knuckle-dragging machismo fuelling the wars of aggression and self-interest around the world that a flamboyant parade wouldn't even budge the scales, let alone the idea that instant gratification and a lack of self development are in any way unique to the LGBT community.

 

 

Whatever the self describes, describes the self.

 

If effeminacy is a problem for you, then that's exactly what it is- a personal problem.

Edited October 28, 2010 by xakarii

[liminal_luke]

I'm straight, and have some gay acquaintances. They are good people. I don't know what makes them gay, or me straight...if it's something in the mind, in the genes, or whatever. It doesn't matter. What matters is that they aren't treated like shit.

 

Thanks for the supportive comment Scotty, and I know I'm kinda nitpicking here, but they aren't generally "good people," at least not more than straight or bi people are. I'm gay myself, and have met hundreds of other gay guys among them a few not so good ones. Gay people, are people first and foremost, neither better nor worse than folks with other sexual orientations.

 

That's not to say we don't differ at all from our straight brothers. While there are certainly some very masculine gay guys around, I believe there's something about being gay that makes it easier to integrate the masculine/feminine polarity, to integrate yin and yang. What straight people do having sex (bringing yin and yang together), gay people often embody in their very being. This has everything to do with taoism. It's the very essence of alchemy, the blending together of opposites, kan and li. It's an important quality gay people bring to the evolution of what it means to be a human being. Does it make us better, or more spiritually evolved than straight people? No, it doesn't. It does make us different though.

 

To sum up: we're here, we're queer, and we're bringing a very special, even essential, quality of spiritual vibration to the planet. Not better than the beautiful more polarized male/female dynamic that generally characterizes straight sexuality, and not worse. Just different and oh so very necessary.

[Aetherous]

Thanks for the supportive comment Scotty, and I know I'm kinda nitpicking here, but they aren't generally "good people," at least not more than straight or bi people are. I'm gay myself, and have met hundreds of other gay guys among them a few not so good ones. Gay people, are people first and foremost, neither better nor worse than folks with other sexual orientations.

 

I was just saying that about the few that I know, not about gay people in general.

[Nebulous Gas]

If all is truly Wu, the voidness, in nature. How can the outward manifestation of form be anywhere near as important as the inner physis and experience?

In the ancient world there were no such labels as "gay" or "bi". If someone were to have sex with both men and women they called them a, get this, "Human Being".

 

 

 

 

A problem, eh? For whom? Are relationships between people of the same sex "out of control" relative to the rampant adultery and divorce rate of "harmonious" hetero pairings these days?

 

 

 

Haven't observed self imposed limitations? From my own point of view that would seem to be a good thing... How exactly does "flambouyancy" (does this mean they're floating and flaming?) throw things out of balance? I'd say with all the foot-stomping, saber-rattling, chest-beating, knuckle-dragging machismo fuelling the wars of aggression and self-interest around the world that a flamboyant parade wouldn't even budge the scales, let alone the idea that instant gratification and a lack of self development are in any way unique to the LGBT community.

 

 

Whatever the self describes, describes the self.

 

If effeminacy is a problem for you, then that's exactly what it is- a personal problem.

 

 

let me begin with a nice long inhale and exhale...ok here we go...also let me say;

brother, I love you. regardless of your sexual orientation...

but on your first point- i cant really comment because i havent done the research but my gut tells me that you are wrong. and let me make a relevant point; its about behavior and modifying it. if uve been with a man (as a man) thats an event which you may choose to reflect upon and discontinue -this is a human thing, recurring events that you refuse to discontinue/acknowledge may be more detrimental for you- make you gay. for instance i run someone over with a car while drunk tonight- an event, i retain the label human. i go out tommorow drink and drive and hit 3 more people-now im a killer...so we DO reach a level where we make distinctions, and for good reason.

 

its actually an inter/intrapersonal problem. so for sure the propagation of homo culture is a problem for me. i have to explain to my child that you dont have sex just cuz you get an erection-anyone fondles ur stuff enough and that will happen. i mean i have to tell him this concerning women already, how much more difficult when the example of men on men relationships are becoming more acceptable and prevalent- even though he nor ANYONE will benefit from living this way. let me ask how do you find these relationships being harmonius? ive seen gays beat each other worse than a woman suffering domestic abuse. and please lets not talk about promiscuity and disease...please.

 

so far as 2 people of the same sex having harmonius relationships- umm thats kinda relative what makes you be at peace with you partner? that the bills are paid? i mean how many hetero relations arent at impasses due to circumstances gays may NEVER face... its unfair to argue from this perpective.

 

but i will tell you this, the rise of homosexuality believe it or not affects the divorce rate(this figure doesnt affect me however marriage is a state thing)and im sure u know how. plus we cant even really talk about divorce rates or adultery in the gay community for various reasons-and not cuz gays just get along with each other SO much better than heteros...

 

 

"Haven't observed self imposed limitations? From my own point of view that would seem to be a good thing..."

if you think thats a good thing read again...try to understand what im saying. dont argue. listen. being unaware of yourself and why you are the way you are is NOT a good thing.

 

in fact this comment(chest beating etc)illustrates my point fairly well...something is wrong with the outside world- so you dont have to deal with whats wrong with you...you draw a comparisson you dont really understand, and probably havent truly learned acceptance yet-so you rebel... and homosexuality is a manifestation of that rebellion. (generalization)

 

i bet u still cant tell me why this is beneficial for you (i take it your gay?)...

 

i take a little offense to this effeminancy comment of yours...brother- you dont know me that well...SO in touch with my masuline/feminine qualites...pfff-no qualms man.

lol all my friends IMO are girly dudes. actually the modern man is effeminate in general if u ask me(some of these wars are a way for these girly men to re-assure to themselves they are men)...many haircuts, shoes, shopping,manicure/pedicure...gotta look good to get the girl.same way the girls feel no? the clubbing lifestlye, which goes back to the unchecked fullfillment of desires... so to be honest you need to re-assess. ive thought about this and discussed openly with people that were gay- some today, aren't and the main reason, they could not see the REAL benefit in it.

 

my actual problem is with folks (like you...at least right now) who try to paint this as a progressive,normal,acceptable,beneficial and worse yet NATURAL way of life. not at all with femness...

also i never attributed these societal issues of under-development and instant gratification solely to the gay community, merely stated this as being a problem they face- shit we all do, however the homosex community i believe succumbs more readily.

 

it is never my intention to offend.

 

-Ali

[liminal_luke]

I was just saying that about the few that I know, not about gay people in general.

 

Sorry for misinterpreting your post Scotty.

 

Way back in the 80's when I was still just finding my way as a gay man, I went to a gay bar in Portland, Oregon called the Embers. There were several drag queens there, and frankly I hated it. Figured they were gay and effeminate so I must be that way too. Later I met all kinds of gay people and realized that being gay didn't mean I needed to fit into that mold. Some gay guys are naturally effeminate and flamboyant. Some gay guys aren't really so effeminate by nature but end up acting that way to fit in with what they perceive as the culture. I see it as a developmental process. A lot of what some people find objectionable about some gay people (parading around in the street in their underwear once a year for gay pride, periods of promiscuity, etc.) isn't really an inherent part of being gay. It's a reaction to living in a homophobic world, a reaction to shame. Try growing up in a gay in a small conservative town with homophobic parents and see if you don't have a neurotic quirk or two as well! Not that we're not fabulous, because mostly we are. But the world isn't quite ready for us (just look at some of the attitudes right here on our very own taobums!) and it takes a little emotional maturity to figure things out.