My favorite Taoist proverb

[exorcist_1699]

My favorite Taoist proverb is :

 

 

" 窮神而知化 "

 

 

What is yours ?

[Trickster_Crow]

times like this I wish I knew chinese

[Apech]

Maybe it says "No Smoking" or "Keep off the grass".

 

?

 

[dawei]

I think the original line goes as:

 

窮神知化，德之盛也。

[Marblehead]

Would someone be so kind as to translate please for those of us who do not read Chinese?

[Procurator]

I think the original line goes as:

 

窮神知化，德之盛也。

this is useally translated as

 

We have thoroughly comprehended the inscrutable and spirit-like, and know the processes of transformation; - this is the fulness of virtue.

 

http://ctext.org/book-of-changes/xi-ci-xia?searchu=%E7%AA%AE%E7%A5%9E%E7%9F%A5%E5%8C%96%EF%BC%8C%E5%BE%B7%E4%B9%8B%E7%9B%9B%E4%B9%9F%E3%80%82

 

its incorrect but it hardly matters.)

[Marblehead]

this is useally translated as

 

We have thoroughly comprehended the inscrutable and spirit-like, and know the processes of transformation; - this is the fulness of virtue.

 

http://ctext.org/book-of-changes/xi-ci-xia?searchu=%E7%AA%AE%E7%A5%9E%E7%9F%A5%E5%8C%96%EF%BC%8C%E5%BE%B7%E4%B9%8B%E7%9B%9B%E4%B9%9F%E3%80%82

 

its incorrect but it hardly matters.)

 

Thanks for the translation.

 

Yes, that is sound Taoist wisdom.

 

I would read it as: "We have thoroughly comprehended the Mystery (the state of wu) and know the processes of transformation." I don't know if the last phrase is really necessary because the quote speaks to Tao, not Te.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Marblehead

[exorcist_1699]

Sorry for not leaving a translation. Mine is as follows :

 

 

It is to the utmost (窮) of shen (神) (mindlessness /emptiness )* that makes us know (知 )the way of assimiliating/ integrating(化) ourselves with Tao.

 

* Pure shen that free of any characteristics and limitations is , in fact, equal to absolute emptiness .They are just two faces of the same entity .

Edited November 16, 2010 by exorcist_1699

[Marblehead]

Sorry for not leaving a translation. Mine is as follows :

 

 

It is to the utmost (窮) of shen (神) (mindlessness /emptiness )* that makes us know (知 )the way of assimiliating/ integrating(化) ourselves with Tao.

 

* Pure shen that free of any characteristics and limitations is , in fact, equal to absolute emptiness .They are just two faces of the same entity .

 

Hehehe. Asking others to translate allows me to continue to be lazy.

 

So in the state of 'shen' I am the empty cup ready to be filled at any time?

 

The state of shen and the state of wu seem to have some commonality.

 

So I looked up the word 'shen' and realized why it is not a part of my normal speech/thought pattern.

 

And I agree, it is while we are in the state of wu that we come to understand (know) the way of becoming one with Tao.

[exorcist_1699]

Exploring the utmost of shen means you have to spend several years on "drilling " the emptiness/ "wu" (nothingness ) , which is the way hardly will people choose to follow. They likely incline to adopt those more interesting methods like paying attention to dantian, visualizaing something , sexual practice... which are funny, trivial and seems effective, yet are ways aberrant and unlikely to succeed .

 

As a Taoist saying tells us ,they are ways " that you are easy to come across in your lifetime , yet unlikely to make you succeed " ("易遇而難成" ),which is just opposite to the genuine Taoist way of " unlikely to come across in your lifetime, but once you meet it, it makes you succeed easily" ("難遇而易成").

 

In fact, there are thousands of books in bookstores and videos on Youtube teaching people how to open 3rd eye or become more psychic .

Edited November 18, 2010 by exorcist_1699

[Marblehead]

Hi Exorcist,

 

Excellent points mentioned. (I will continue using th word 'wu'.)

 

When I meditate I am never trying to go anywhere or get to any state or condition. For me, the state of 'wu' is more like an area with a trash can where I can trash all the useless junk I have messing with my mind.

 

I live in the Manifest. That is where the majority of my attention needs be directed.

 

So, as applied to your quote, yes, I have experienced emptiness and fullness, oneness, if you will, but that's not where I live - it is where I rest.

[exorcist_1699]

Hi, Marblehead

 

I enjoy reading some of your translation of Dao De Jing on this forum .

 

I think from " Wu" ("Nothingness") , people should try to nourish some kind of Being * otherwise Tao will be trapped in an unproductive status . This Being , of course, is what we call qi . Qi that comes out from such "Wu" , comes out from such " chaos" , of course, has quality higher than those we get from paying attention to dantian or visualization.

 

 

(* A French philosopher ,Sartre , wrote a book called "Being and Nothingness " . However, by using traditional philosophical reasoning , although having it quipped with newly invented categories , his re-interpretation of human's status in this world can't give us any genuine way out of our predicament)

Edited November 21, 2010 by exorcist_1699

[Marblehead]

Hi, Marblehead

 

I enjoy reading some of your translation of Dao De Jing on this forum .

 

Hi Exorcist,

 

Thanks. I obviously enjoy talking with you else I wouldn't be typing at this exact moment in time.

 

I think from " Wu" ("Nothingness") , people should try to nourish some kind of Being * otherwise Tao will be trapped in an unproductive status . This Being , of course, is what we call qi . Qi that comes out from such "Wu" , comes out from such " chaos" , of course, has quality higher than those we get from paying attention to dantian or visualization.

 

Yes, the full state of 'wu' is totally non-productive. That is why I have always suggested that we should attain a harmonious position between 'wu' and 'yo'. Now, this position will be in constant flux because externals are constantly playing a role in our life (cause and effect).

 

I agree, we don't want to be trapped in 'nothingness'. That would be a waste of a life. But we should not try to be over-productive because that would cause us constant worry.

 

So, as Chuang Tzu suggested somewhere in his writings, we find our rest in 'wu' so that we have the reserve to do what needs be done at any point in time during our lifetime.

 

(* A French philosopher ,Sartre , wrote a book called "Being and Nothingness " . However, by using traditional philosophical reasoning , although having it quipped with newly invented categories , his re-interpretation of human's status in this world can't give us any genuine way out of our predicament)

 

Yeah. That book was given to me many years ago by someone who was very dear to me at the time. I must have tried at least a dozen time to get into that book but failed every time. I finally just gave it up deciding that I was not meant to read it. Oh well.

 

I did enjoy reading the little I did read from Albert Camus even though that was a very long time ago but his and Sartre's philosophies were supposed to be somewhat similar.

[Cloudhand]

In the world, there is nothing more submissive and weak than water. For attacking that which is hard and strong, nothing can surpass it.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Cloudhand

[ChiDragon]

I think the original line goes as:

 

窮神知化，德之盛也。

 

《易·繫辞下》：窮神知化，德之盛也。

http://www.zdic.net/cy/ch/ZdicE7ZdicA9ZdicB731429.htm

窮神知化：谓穷究事物之神妙，了解事物之变化。

It was said to be the research of the subtlety of all matters; and to understand the evolution of all matters.

 

德之盛也:乃是聖人德之盛極也

Therefore, it's the utmost virtue of a sage.

Edited May 28, 2011 by ChiDragon