Marblehead Posted November 4, 2010 And an excellent spin-off, I must admit. I won't speak to the subject at the moment because although I do hold to it I am very careful when speaking to it because of the 'supernatural' connotations available. (You know how much of a materailist I am. Hehehe.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted November 4, 2010 And an excellent spin-off, I must admit. I won't speak to the subject at the moment because although I do hold to it I am very careful when speaking to it because of the 'supernatural' connotations available. (You know how much of a materailist I am. Hehehe.) Also hehehe here, since pure-unconditioned, undying "supernatural" energy is also material in a sense; just not in the sense of being stuck in identification with a particular but changing form or "straw dog". Thus the Lifeforce plays no favorites to particular forms although nutures all like a good mother/father. Om Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 4, 2010 Also hehehe here, since pure-unconditioned, undying "supernatural" energy is also material in a sense; just not in the sense of being stuck in identification with a particular but changing form or "straw dog". Thus the Lifeforce plays no favorites to particular forms although nutures all like a good mother/father. Om Yeah, I do speak of the "life Force" on occasion and I associate it with our personal Chi, that energy that gives us life. And I do, on occasion, speak to our Chi energy in basic terms mostly regarding our wellness, both physically and spiritually. "Supernatural" is a concept I just don't accept. In my mind, everything that happens within the bounds of the universe are natural occurances. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted November 5, 2010 Yeah, I do speak of the "life Force" on occasion and I associate it with our personal Chi, that energy that gives us life. And I do, on occasion, speak to our Chi energy in basic terms mostly regarding our wellness, both physically and spiritually. "Supernatural" is a concept I just don't accept. In my mind, everything that happens within the bounds of the universe are natural occurances. One definition of supernatural that I use is simply a higher energy or law that can supersede a lesser energy or law... for comparitive instance energenic healing could be called supernatural when it supersedes an incomplete healing from use of over the counter drugs. One could keep extrapolating that example/idea back to the "ancient beginning". Thus in such a sense its all natural including the unameable Tao that can never be encompassed by limited yet also natural permutations. Om Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 5, 2010 One definition of supernatural that I use is simply a higher energy or law that can supersede a lesser energy or law... for comparitive instance energenic healing could be called supernatural when it supersedes an incomplete healing from use of over the counter drugs. One could keep extrapolating that example/idea back to the "ancient beginning". Thus in such a sense its all natural including the unameable Tao that can never be encompassed by limited yet also natural permutations. Om Absolutely. Your example expresses the different meanings that different people place on the word. I guess that is why I try to avoid using it. Sure, there are many, many things that happen in this universe, and even just my own life, that are beyond my explanation. But I think it is better to just say "I don't know why." than to go about making up false stories in an attempt to explain what happened. To the Tao, Yes indeed. And that is why I call it the Mystery. Most aspects of the Manifest we can fully explain if we are able to gain enoygh data to do so. But the Mystery? Or even Chi? How many different understandings are there as to what Chi is and how it functions? The unknown is scarey for a lot of people. Therefore they need answers to their questions. Doesn't matter if the answers are correct or not - anything that removes the uncertainty will do. A perfect example is all the various creation stories of various societies of people. A courgar doesn't need a creation story. It just lives its life doing only what is natural for it to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted November 5, 2010 "Supernatural" is a concept I just don't accept. In my mind, everything that happens within the bounds of the universe are natural occurances. Supernatural is just the stuff we haven't learned to measure yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 5, 2010 Supernatural is just the stuff we haven't learned to measure yet. I accept that definition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted November 5, 2010 (edited) Absolutely. Your example expresses the different meanings that different people place on the word. I guess that is why I try to avoid using it. Sure, there are many, many things that happen in this universe, and even just my own life, that are beyond my explanation. But I think it is better to just say "I don't know why." than to go about making up false stories in an attempt to explain what happened. To the Tao, Yes indeed. And that is why I call it the Mystery. Most aspects of the Manifest we can fully explain if we are able to gain enoygh data to do so. But the Mystery? Or even Chi? How many different understandings are there as to what Chi is and how it functions? The unknown is scarey for a lot of people. Therefore they need answers to their questions. Doesn't matter if the answers are correct or not - anything that removes the uncertainty will do. A perfect example is all the various creation stories of various societies of people. A courgar doesn't need a creation story. It just lives its life doing only what is natural for it to do. Hi MH, Animals suffer to, hopefully we can be good stewards of the ecosystems that they and we to need. (obviously a cougar is not as complicated as human being) Anyway, it sounds like you are saying that it is better to be an agnostic than to make things up, and or to never question one's beliefs that can be like programming, if so I fully agree. Thus first hand personal experience is key, even though others may be of loving help and guidance one still must find out for themselves by making the journey(s) of life. Most of the creation stories (including that alluded to in the TTC) have grains of truth imo. Although a reading of between the lines is often required. Further, a person can more or less personally verify the import of various creation stories by returning to (or visiting so to speak) the "One". Btw, the One is the gate to no-thing but let's face it - for most of us that is getting light-years ahead of the game considering we are bumping and crashing around at fulfilling our human dharmas along with working on tons of karma! Lastly, any of the grand things we mentate about in regards to no-thing vanish on impact with no-thing! (as a figure of speech) Om Edited November 5, 2010 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 5, 2010 Hi MH, Animals suffer to, hopefully we can be good stewards of the ecosystems that they and we to need. (obviously a cougar is not as complicated as human being) True, the life of other animals is not as complicated as is man's. But then, man's can be a lot less complicated than we make it. I don't know about other animals suffering. Depends on the brain capacity of the animal, I suppose. But yes, I suppose that many of the more intelligent animals suffer just as we do. (Remember, I use the word 'suffer' as in a psychological manner.) Anyway, it sounds like you are saying that it is better to be an agnostic than to make things up, and or to never question one's beliefs that can be like programming, if so I fully agree. Actually, I would suggest that it would be better to be a Taoist but of course, that is my personal opinion. But yes, I believe it is far better to be an agnostic and admit ignorance than to pretend we know everything when in reality we "know" so little. Thus first hand personal experience is key, even though others may be of loving help and guidance one still must find out for themselves by making the journey(s) of life. Yes, I believe this is true. We can read all the books in a library but we still have not had any of those experiences ourself so in reality we really haven't lived yet. Most of the creation stories (including that alluded to in the TTC) have grains of truth imo. Although a reading of between the lines is often required. Further, a person can more or less personally verify the import of various creation stories by returning to (or visiting so to speak) the "One". Btw, the One is the gate to no-thing but let's face it - for most of us that is getting light-years ahead of the game considering we are bumping and crashing around at fulfilling our human dharmas along with working on tons of karma! Actually, I don't even hold to tightly the creation story in the TTC. The Big Bang Theory is good enough for me. But I do enjoy discussing the One, Two, Three and Many of the TTC. (1, 2, 3 & many are consistent with Tao, Chi, Mystery and Manifest in my mind.) Lastly, any of the grand things we mentate about in regards to no-thing vanish on impact with no-thing! (as a figure of speech) Om Yep. That is why I never remain in the condition of 'wu' for more than a few minutes. I don't want to miss out on any of this life I am supposed to be living. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
