Tao te Ching brings not wisdom, people do

[Everything]

Tao te Ching surely is a book of wisdom. But it is also a book for the wisdom. This book is a piece of art, where wise people can go and inspire themselves, because it has been written by wise people, the target audience is not the unwise.

 

There is a wrong assumption going on around the world! The assumption that all the wise books like the Bible, Koran, Tao te Ching brings wisdom to everyone! They are holy books, everyone should read them! Is that true? If that were true, woulden't it be great? So, what do you think?

 

The radical terrorists surely call themselves muslims not because they like that name, but because they read the Koran alot! They are inspired by it. The piece of art that is written from the minds of intelligent people surely has got the right to be called holy. But just like all the kinds on music on earth, it requires practice just to learn how to listen to every kind of genre! What are the ideas behind every piece of text written within these ancient holy texts?

 

Would you agree to give a child the Tao te Ching and trust in him to find the wisdom he needs within the written text that everyone calls holy? Would you trust in him the King temperament to be fully developed? Would you trust in him the responsible leadership of a great old wise man? Would you trust him your entire kingdom? The child, however intelligent born, will never find the wisdom purely out of a written text. Especially if it is so vaguely written and artistic like the Tao te Ching! It requires a great mind to extract wisdom, out of the old book, for use within the world of Today! Whenever that might be.

 

 

Evil men, when trusted with a book like Tao te Ching, can easily inspire others to follow his lead when he CAN extract inspiration from such a book. He can create illusions, bending the written words to serve his own ego. Illusions where even the creator himself will start believing in. It has been done all over the world.

 

Just like Tao te Ching teaches us not to follow the relativity of the world, but accepting it, I show you how Tao te Ching can bring us evil aswell as good. It is our perception that filters the truth.

 

Infact, I am sad to say that I have used Tao te Ching in such a way, just to prove the fact to my self. It has served me well to inspire a more demonic nature in people that were already present. However, I'm not sure wether the energy of Tao te Ching delivered along with these words of wisdom will ultimately bring the good out of people naturally. I have yet to see... Perhaps the wisdom behind Tao Te Ching is beyond the powers of good and evil, life and death.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Everything

[Marblehead]

Strange concept but a valid one none-the-less.

 

The Hippies of the 1960's understood "wu wei" as doing nothing so they just hung out, partied and had sex.

 

Any great writting can be used and manipulated in order to support a personal venture like controlling others. That is why it is so important to understand the history behind the writing and the conditions of life during the time when the book was written.

 

Same with the Tao Te Ching. It was a condemnation by Lao Tzu of the conditions of life during his time and suggestions as to how to revert to a more peaceful way of life.

[manitou]

 

The Hippies of the 1960's understood "wu wei" as doing nothing so they just hung out, partied and had sex.

 

I think the concept of wu-wei is the absolute power behind the TTC, although I'm not sure the S.F. hippies were utilizing it correctly. Wu wei can be found when ego is mitigated, and when the dynamics in play can be allowed to continue without interference from ego's demands. Although it would surely be much more fun to see Do-Nothing as one big orgy-fest.

[Marblehead]

 

The Hippies of the 1960's understood "wu wei" as doing nothing so they just hung out, partied and had sex.

 

I think the concept of wu-wei is the absolute power behind the TTC, although I'm not sure the S.F. hippies were utilizing it correctly. Wu wei can be found when ego is mitigated, and when the dynamics in play can be allowed to continue without interference from ego's demands. Although it would surely be much more fun to see Do-Nothing as one big orgy-fest.

 

Hehehe. Yeah, I missed out on all the orgy fests because I was in the Army during that period and had to behave myself.

 

I do agree with you in that the state of wu wei is the ultimate - being in both the state of wu (the spiritual) and yo (the physical) simultaniously. Most of us live this way to some degree but it is when we attain perfect harmony (not necessarily balance) between the two states that we find our peace and contentment. It is here where we are beyond all dualities.

[The Observer]

The truth tends to be the same and universal, it just filters through different people's understanding in different manners. So the truth comes out in various shades and colors depending on who's explaining the concept.

 

Reality is a watery thing.

[Marblehead]

The truth tends to be the same and universal, it just filters through different people's understanding in different manners. So the truth comes out in various shades and colors depending on who's explaining the concept.

 

Reality is a watery thing.

 

 

Yeah. Although I try to stay away from universals, human nature and the ways of woman and man are pretty much the same anywhere on the planet. I think that most of the filters are really prohibitions (controlling the people) than anything else.

 

I like that: Reality is a watery thing. Gives reason for thought.

[Birch]

"I think that most of the filters are really prohibitions (controlling the people) than anything else."

 

With which I agree, and I disagree that TTC is not itself wisdom. From where I'm sitting, the TTC is a very sophisticated device that can lead pretty much anyone to reconsider their filters. Of course once you've gotten rid of all your filters (no idea how "fast" that could happen) and quit putting new ones on top of yourself then do you still need the TTC?

[Marblehead]

Of course once you've gotten rid of all your filters (no idea how "fast" that could happen) and quit putting new ones on top of yourself then do you still need the TTC?

 

I think it is a good idea to keep our guide map in the glove box just in case when we are lost somewhere and we are ready to get back on our main route or destination we can pull out the guide and "there you are".

 

I doubt I will ever tire of discussing Taoist Philosophy and being challenged with the understandings presented to me by various translations.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Marblehead

[The Observer]

I think it is a good idea to keep our guide map in the glove box just in case when we are lost somewhere and we are ready to get back on our main route or destination we can pull out the guide and "there you are".

 

I doubt I will ever tire of discussing Taoist Philosophy and being challenged with the understandings presented to me by various translations.

 

To paraphrase a quote from Zen Buddhism "Once you've crossed to the other side of the ocean, there's no need to drag the boat with you across land." (I butchered it I think ).

Books of wisdom, words and concepts are vehicles for insight but in of themselves empty, to be discarded when the time is ripe. If we remain tied down to concepts we lose spontaneity and hence forth, connection to the Dao/reality.

[Marblehead]

To paraphrase a quote from Zen Buddhism "Once you've crossed to the other side of the ocean, there's no need to drag the boat with you across land." (I butchered it I think ).

Books of wisdom, words and concepts are vehicles for insight but in of themselves empty, to be discarded when the time is ripe. If we remain tied down to concepts we lose spontaneity and hence forth, connection to the Dao/reality.

 

Hi Observer,

 

Yeah. Okay, the quote is actually from Chuang Tzu but you did good with what you presented.

 

And Chuang Tzu also said that once we grasp the concepts we can forget about the words.

 

Your last sentence is very valid though, I think.

 

I do agree that dogma will restrict our spontaneity. Is this true of concepts? Dogma are fixed rules - concepts are generalities.

 

I think it is good to refresh our memory now and then regarding our philosophy of life.

 

Sure, I love living spontaneously. I took yesterday off because I wasn't inspired to do anything even though there are hundreds of thing I could have done.

 

So, after we have crossed the river we hide the boat, hoping that no one will find it, just in case we might need it if we decide to return to the other side. Not counting all the translations of the TTC available on the internet I keep four hard copies of the TTC here at my computer desk in the event I need to reference something.

 

There are many good things to say about living spontaneously. But there are good things to say about living a structured life until we have assured our security. I am very glad I planned ahead for my retirement. I have no serious concerns and therefore I can live much more sponateously.

 

So sure, the TTC is not like some kind of bible that we must adhere to religiously. But it is still an excellent guide in getting us on the proper path again should we ever become lost.

[rene]

.... Books of wisdom, words and concepts are vehicles for insight but in of themselves empty, to be discarded when the time is ripe. If we remain tied down to concepts we lose spontaneity and hence forth, connection to the Dao/reality.

 

Agree. No need to cross the same river twice, even if it could be done. (-:

[manitou]

The thing that's particularly wonderful about the TTC is that it's really short; rereading it over and over does create internalization after a long period of time, and each and every time you start reading it's at a higher level than it was last time.

[rene]

Manitou, hi

 

The Laozi is wonderful, isn't it. (-:

 

For me, the first chapter nails it and the rest of the chapters are delightful elaborations; yet it seems there is something for everyone!

 

warm regards

[Birch]

"Dogma are fixed rules - concepts are generalities."

 

Hum, I dunno about this one. IMO concepts have delimited "borders" within which the concept stands, outside which the concept falls apart. They seem to be a bit more mobile and personal than dogma and as such also seem harder to catch (whether that be in oneself or others).

 

In fact (and I'm not sure I'm even using that word correctly) the more "general" concepts seem (to me) to get, the more room for conflict of borders seems to result. Witness the ability of certain words I use inside one concept being argued arduously due to the (fact) they happen to be inside someone else's concept as well but don't match. And it doesn't just happen with words. Happens with all kinds of things. Indra's net - Indra's bl88dy pain in the behind net, yes.

[Marblehead]

Hi Kate,

 

I understand what you are saying.

 

Let me try again with different words.

 

Dogma are commandments - they are to be followed without question, regardless of the conditions.

 

Concepts are guides - they offer suggestions to apply to various conditions and can be manipulated in order to find the 'best' solution.

 

Example:

 

Dogma: Thou shalt not kill.

 

Concept: Do not kill without just cause.

 

With dogma I cannot kill in order to feed myself and survive. With concept I can kill a rabbit and eat it so that I might stay alive.