The Way of the Warrior

[Stigweard]

[Marblehead]

What a wonderful post Stig!!!!

 

Thanks for sharing.

[3bob]

a "warrior" is also a proper beggar or knows how to beg properly without ado.

 

Om

[Marblehead]

a "warrior" is also a proper beggar or knows how to beg properly without ado.

 

Om

 

While this is true I think the warrior will try his/her best to make do with what is available to them before they rely on begging.

[3bob]

While this is true I think the warrior will try his/her best to make do with what is available to them before they rely on begging.

 

Depends on the culture and school. (for instance such as the historic Buddha, Master Jesus, in many forms of Hindusism, etc.)

 

Om

[Marblehead]

Depends on the culture and school. (for instance such as the historic Buddha, Master Jesus, in many forms of Hindusism, etc.)

 

Om

 

Yeah, Yeah. I know. And add many Taoist Sages in that group as well.

 

Okay, I am a visionary. The warrior always tries to be self-sufficient.

 

Sure, he/she will sometimes give everything they have to others and then have to rely on others in order to survive.

 

But back to my vision. The warrior will survive because there is no place for death in him/her. Yeah, I stole that thought from someone else.

[i_am_sam]

Peace? What have the warriors brought of us peace? Armies create a cycle of violence. There were factions waging war for centuries in Europe until they finally took sides in an epic conflict known as WWI. The victors took the spoils of war and forced Germany into a humiliating position until nationalism took hold and gave rise to WWII. The victors again squared off to take the spoils of war, and we ended up in the cold war. We funded insurgencies in Afghanistan against the Russians that gave us modern-day Al Qaeda. We sponsored the Iranian Shah, and then the Iraqis against the new Islamic Republic of Iran when the dictator we propped up failed, and the "oops" maybe we should have done that so lets invade Iraq. We know how that worked out. Of course, the violence seeps out like an infection that spreads. Now that we've invaded Iraq, there are people in Yemen angry so lets go bomb them. This provides Al Qaeda with great recruitment opportunities, and they have more popular support than ever. We're now seeing in the bombs on the UPS planes the fruits of our actions in Yemen.

 

Of course, sometimes there are people powerful enough to break the cycles. If you had told someone a hundred years ago that India would be in the state that it is today, they would have laughed at you. They would have told you that India could never succeed the way it has without the colonial armies unifying it. And then along came Gandhi. He said there was a better way than bloody revolution to build a state, that it could be done peacefully. Today, India is not perfect, but it is a model for what can be accomplished without guns or bombs.

 

If you want to join the military, it's your decision, but there is no peace to be had at the barrel of a gun. Our actions are killing civilians, radicalizing the Muslim world against us, and creating more cycles of violence that will repeat over and over and over.

 

Please would all those on the path of the warrior read the above again.

 

I find I can't apologise for adding to this thread when the discussion has moved away from the subject, for if the way of the warrior concerns freedom and the quest for enlightenment, surely first one must be able to see the world they live in for how it really is.

 

Divisions between us are largely created then manipulated and encouraged so war may be waged for profit. Usually in the name of freedom.

 

Freedom is the realisation that you have been grossly conditioned not to see this and that you are bonded into slavery to serve the same masters, whose acquisition of 'wealth' means the pillaging of our planet and control of all its resources, including its people.

 

The truth is usually very simple, plenty of primary evidence from former US presidents on you-tube.

 

If you wish to be a warrior, then make sure you know who you're serving.

 

peace

 

x

[3bob]

Yeah, Yeah. I know. And add many Taoist Sages in that group as well.

 

Okay, I am a visionary. The warrior always tries to be self-sufficient.

 

Sure, he/she will sometimes give everything they have to others and then have to rely on others in order to survive.

 

But back to my vision. The warrior will survive because there is no place for death in him/her. Yeah, I stole that thought from someone else.

 

What others? Separate others to the spiritual warrior are only apparent, thus there really are no others. (which co-insides with "there is no place for death in him" for the veils to the lifeforce when removed do not see separate others or death...)

[Marblehead]

What others? Separate others to the spiritual warrior are only apparent, thus there really are no others. (which co-insides with "there is no place for death in him" for the veils to the lifeforce when removed do not see separate others or death...)

 

Hehehe. Come on Bob, you know me well enough by now to not throw that stuff at me. The Manifest (separate) is just as real as is the Unity. Just different levels of observation.

 

There are many on this planet who are not warriors. I do not attach myself to those.

 

Besides, there are many who have already died (spiritually) but are still walking around.

 

You wouldn't expect me to put them on the same level as Jesus or Buddha would you?

[onlyindreams]

[3bob]

Hehehe. Come on Bob, you know me well enough by now to not throw that stuff at me. The Manifest (separate) is just as real as is the Unity. Just different levels of observation.

 

There are many on this planet who are not warriors. I do not attach myself to those.

 

Besides, there are many who have already died (spiritually) but are still walking around.

 

You wouldn't expect me to put them on the same level as Jesus or Buddha would you?

 

 

The manifest is not separate, spirit does not die, and what is in Jesus or Buddha is also in all of us.

"level of observation" is all encompassing for the Tao.

 

Om

[Marblehead]

The manifest is not separate, spirit does not die, and what is in Jesus or Buddha is also in all of us.

"level of observation" is all encompassing for the Tao.

 

Om

 

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I share no connection or commonality with Hitler or that guy who raped and mudered the 11 year old girl. No, No!

 

Jesus and Buddha are dead and they both returned to the Source. (I just had to say that. Hehehe.) I will agree that the Life Force (Chi) was in all of us and is in all of us while we are alive. Beyond that I am unable to even form an opinion.

 

You cannot prove that the spirit of the person continues to exist and I cannot prove that it doesn't. That is one of those "I don't know." things.

 

"Level of observation" is tricky. Yes, everything is stardust. Thats the way the universe works. But they are individual specks of dust. A tree is still a tree even if you say the tree is part of the forest. Without the individual trees there would be no forest.

[Stigweard]

Just bringing this over to the 9th page.

 

And Stigweard, I've read your post atleast once a day since you posted it.

 

 

To be honest, I've practiced the kind of total awareness of the present moment that you described in the last part of your post for as long as I can remember...

 

Can you tell us more about what that practice actually serves to instill and develop?

 

There are a few implications of this type of awareness, but fundamentally they link to the Warrior's quest of attaining absolute freedom of awareness.

 

Almost the entire quotient of our life force is trapped in the cycles of our fixated conditionings and self-importance (i.e. being attached to your view of yourself and the world). The incessant thoughts, words, and subsequent repetitive behavior is a constant drain on our vitality. This wastage is further exasperated if the behaviors are detrimental in themselves (i.e. drugs, alcohol, etc.).

 

So developing the ability to "turn off" the internal dialogue, thus freeing up and preserving life-force, actually has a tangible benefit for one's health. Though a pleasant side-effect to the Warrior's main task, it is however intrinsic with the Warrior becoming "whole" -- of achieving the "Totality of Self".

 

The Warrior's endeavor is to have the freedom and fluidity of perception to engage the full spectrum of possible human awareness. Through socialization and self-importance our awareness is constrained to the minutest sliver of the possible range of perception that is available. Knowing that it is our internal dialogue that creates this fixation, by achieving true inner silence our fixations weaken and our awareness starts to loosen and "shift".

 

In this shifting of awareness previously unaccessed frequencies of the human awareness start to become available to us. Initially it may simply be that you get a different understanding or perspective of the world. But with sufficient practice new alignments of perception are possible. It's like suddenly discovering a new color in the spectrum. The world takes on a whole new hue and appearance. You see life with a new "light".

 

As a side note, many practitioners achieve this "shift" of awareness and think they are "enlightened". Though yes it is an enlightening and revelatory experience, it is only an introductory phase to the main journey ahead. We are wanting complete freedom of awareness, not just seeing the same view differently.

 

As we continue our practice we start to develop our "personal power". This power comes from two directions: firstly from the liberated energy previously trapped in our fixations, and secondly from the extra power flowing to us from the universe now that we have begun to "unclog" our "channels". You see, universal nature (i.e. the earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, etc.) is always wanting to flow through us. When we limit our awareness through fixations we are literally cutting our selves off both from parts of ourselves and from the emanations of the world around us.

 

Our personal power has two components: Intent and Will. Intent is the power to align a perception and Will is the power to maintain it. Very much like shooting an arrow to hit a target: Intent aims the arrow, Will is the strength to draw the bow.

 

So the practice of silencing the internal dialogue serves to train our Intent and Will. You will notice as you practice that you will slip in and out of focus, i.e. you will be silent for awhile and then your mind will start chattering and then you bring yourself back to silence. This is the fluctuation of Intent and Will.

 

The more we train our Intent and Will, learning to progressively shift our perception, the more we will loosen our fixations until the Warrior makes the breakthrough of liberating themselves from their fixations completely, referred to as "Stopping the World". This is not just seeing the same view differently, it is the fundamental "movement" of perception to align a completely new view of the world. It is stepping entirely into the "unknown", and is subsequently very hard to speak about.

 

And here the Warrior's true journey takes place. With the liberation of awareness the Warrior is free to perceive the world however they choose. But here is an interesting thing. It is not the Warrior's whim that "chooses" but is instead their personal power ... but that is another story

 

The final point I would like to make for now though is that, through the process of liberating our perception, the Warrior is able to "See". By this I mean that the Warrior's perception is perfectly in sync with the forces of the world around them.

 

Most people are 3 steps behind the truth: First is the phenomena, second is our sensory perception of the phenomena limited by our physical sensory capacity, third is the interpretation of the sensory data filtered by our fixated view of the world. This is even further diluted when we try and explain what we perceived because of the limitations of the spoken language, the other person's capacity to comprehend what was spoken, and then the filtration of that person's view of the world.

 

In other words our perception of the world is really just an echo of reality; our cognition is in fact merely a remembrance of the moment that has already gone.

 

So the act of "Seeing" is the process of removing the interference created from our fixated view of the world and expanding our perception beyond the limitations of physical capacities so that we can "See" life in the full spectrum of its entirety as it is actually happening; we are in fact "quickening" our perception and catching up with life.

 

As a further clarification, if I was to give an encyclopedic clarification on Seeing it would be:

 

"Seeing is the direct and instantaneous flow of knowledge between the perceiver and the perceived."

 

[3bob]

Hello Marblehead, (my responses in blue text)

 

"I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I share no connection or commonality with Hitler or that guy who raped and mudered the 11 year old girl. No, No!

 

All forms are ultimately under the One; such as the forms that are tagged with the terms and meanings of good and evil...

But the One is under the Mystery of Tao.

 

Jesus and Buddha are dead and they both returned to the Source. (I just had to say that. Hehehe.) I will agree that the Life Force (Chi) was in all of us and is in all of us while we are alive. Beyond that I am unable to even form an opinion.

 

hehehe, opinions and beliefs are at best like vehicles, no need for us to wreck into each other.

 

You cannot prove that the spirit of the person continues to exist and I cannot prove that it doesn't. That is one of those "I don't know." things.

 

Agreed as far as physical proof goes, although one can only find this out through experience.

 

"Level of observation" is tricky. Yes, everything is stardust. Thats the way the universe works. But they are individual specks of dust. A tree is still a tree even if you say the tree is part of the forest. Without the individual trees there would be no forest".

 

Without the Tao there is not the "One", but without the One the Tao still Is.

 

Om

Edited November 10, 2010 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Hi Bob,

 

Yeah, maybe I over-reacted on that but I felt it necessary to express my understand as well as I could.

 

All forms are ultimately under the One; such as the forms that are tagged with the terms and meanings of good and evil...

 

I don't deny that. But that doesn't mean that I must accept negativity into my life or excuse evil.

 

hehehe, opinions and beliefs are at best like vehicles, no need for us to wreck into each other.

 

Yep. When we do not have facts to prove or disclaim a thought all we have left is our beliefs and opinions.

 

Agreed as far as physical proof goes, although one can only find this out through experience.

 

True. But then, we should never add to nor subtract from the experience itself. That would be called creating delusional meaning to the experience.

 

Without the Tao there is not the "One", but without the One the Tao still Is.

 

Om

 

This last statement is troublesome for me but I don't know exactly why. Perhaps because I equate One and Tao to be the same thing. Remember, I hold to the concept of Tzujan (the Processes of Nature or the Laws of Physics for this universe). I support that with:

 

TTC Chapter 25, Wayne Wang translation, line 12:

 

Heaven follows Tao. Tao follows Tzujan.

[3bob]

Hi Bob,

 

Yeah, maybe I over-reacted on that but I felt it necessary to express my understand as well as I could.

 

This last statement is troublesome for me but I don't know exactly why. Perhaps because I equate One and Tao to be the same thing. Remember, I hold to the concept of Tzujan (the Processes of Nature or the Laws of Physics for this universe). I support that with:

 

TTC Chapter 25, Wayne Wang translation, line 12:

 

Heaven follows Tao. Tao follows Tzujan.

 

Well the simple translation I have says, "Tao follows it own ways" thus where is there a trouble with "tzujan" or of such a spontaneous following of its own ways?

 

As you've read and studied in Chapter 42, "Tao gave birth to One", and that is a biggy!!

[Marblehead]

Well the simple translation I have says, "Tao follows it own ways" thus where is there a trouble with "tzujan" or of such a spontaneous following of its own ways?

 

As you've read and studied in Chapter 42, "Tao gave birth to One", and that is a biggy!!

 

And Henricks' translation of Ch 25, last line reads:

 

And the Way models itself on that which is so on its own. (That would be Tzujan.)

 

And his Ch 42, first line reads:

 

The Way gave birth to the One.

 

We can't really say that Tao (Way) gave birth to Tao (One). That wouldn't make sense.

 

But I see no contradiction with saying that Tzujan gave birth to One. In other words, the natural processes caused the creation of Singularity (that state just prior to the Big Bang). Bang! Now we have two, and so forth.

 

I will always stand to my understanding that everything that has happened and will happen are and will be results of natural processes. There is no 'creator' in my understanding of the universe - there are natural processes.

 

(WoW! We sure left the warrior to fend for himself, didn't we? Hehehe.)

[3bob]

I have no problem with the saying of "Tao follows its own ways" (of Tao).

Which is not unlike a saying of, Spirit unto Spirit.

 

I have no problem with saying creator or creation as alluded to in chapter 1 of the TTC in the words of, "As the Mother of all things it is nameable" - with the understanding that that first name can not "really" be put into a box and then be dissected by intellect. Thus negations or affirmations made by intellect are equally lacking regarding that which it can not really encompass even with the name of "Mother". (btw, this is more so when it comes to that which can not be named as also mentioned in chapter 1, "As the origin of heaven-and-earth, it is nameless".

 

Further, I have no problem with the "nameless" and unknowable by intellect as being the most "natural process" which can not really be understood by anyone or anything except by itself, as in the: "Tao follows its own ways". - Lastly, until a warrior surrenders to that they can be defeated.

 

Om

Edited November 10, 2010 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

I have no problem ...

 

Hehehe. I am so glad you have no problems!

 

Actually, I don't either. It is just that when I am speaking with others regarding Taoist Philosophy I try very hard to use words that have as few connotations as possible so that I am not constantly misunderstood.

 

Yeah, I sometimes make mention of the feminine usage in the TTC. God is a woman, you know. (She is the only sex that gives birth.)

 

There have been some deserving women warrior throughout history. The Greeks spoke of them, there are tales of the Amazons, and there is evidence of female warriors in Siberia and Mongolia (these may have been the ones the Greeks spoke of). And there are tales of female warriors in African history as well. And then there is Joan of Arc.

 

But yes, the Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. But we still try to describe some of its characteristics.

[3bob]

Hehehe. I am so glad you have no problems!

 

Actually, I don't either. It is just that when I am speaking with others regarding Taoist Philosophy I try very hard to use words that have as few connotations as possible so that I am not constantly misunderstood.

 

Yeah, I sometimes make mention of the feminine usage in the TTC. God is a woman, you know. (She is the only sex that gives birth.)

 

There have been some deserving women warrior throughout history. The Greeks spoke of them, there are tales of the Amazons, and there is evidence of female warriors in Siberia and Mongolia (these may have been the ones the Greeks spoke of). And there are tales of female warriors in African history as well. And then there is Joan of Arc.

 

But yes, the Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. But we still try to describe some of its characteristics.

 

Hehehe, I have no problems with that which was mentioned in my previous post... (which a partial quote changes the connotation of, ) but I often have all the other common, A-Z type of problems that a human being has to work on.

 

"But yes, the Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. But we still try to describe some of its characteristics" by MH, and agreed here.

 

Om

Edited November 10, 2010 by 3bob

[3bob]

 

There are a few implications of this type of awareness, but fundamentally they link to the Warrior's quest of attaining absolute freedom of awareness.

 

Almost the entire quotient of our life force is trapped in the cycles of our fixated conditionings and self-importance (i.e. being attached to your view of yourself and the world). The incessant thoughts, words, and subsequent repetitive behavior is a constant drain on our vitality. This wastage is further exasperated if the behaviors are detrimental in themselves (i.e. drugs, alcohol, etc.).

 

So developing the ability to "turn off" the internal dialogue, thus freeing up and preserving life-force, actually has a tangible benefit for one's health. Though a pleasant side-effect to the Warrior's main task, it is however intrinsic with the Warrior becoming "whole" -- of achieving the "Totality of Self".

 

The Warrior's endeavor is to have the freedom and fluidity of perception to engage the full spectrum of possible human awareness. Through socialization and self-importance our awareness is constrained to the minutest sliver of the possible range of perception that is available. Knowing that it is our internal dialogue that creates this fixation, by achieving true inner silence our fixations weaken and our awareness starts to loosen and "shift".

 

In this shifting of awareness previously unaccessed frequencies of the human awareness start to become available to us. Initially it may simply be that you get a different understanding or perspective of the world. But with sufficient practice new alignments of perception are possible. It's like suddenly discovering a new color in the spectrum. The world takes on a whole new hue and appearance. You see life with a new "light".

 

As a side note, many practitioners achieve this "shift" of awareness and think they are "enlightened". Though yes it is an enlightening and revelatory experience, it is only an introductory phase to the main journey ahead. We are wanting complete freedom of awareness, not just seeing the same view differently.

 

As we continue our practice we start to develop our "personal power". This power comes from two directions: firstly from the liberated energy previously trapped in our fixations, and secondly from the extra power flowing to us from the universe now that we have begun to "unclog" our "channels". You see, universal nature (i.e. the earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, etc.) is always wanting to flow through us. When we limit our awareness through fixations we are literally cutting our selves off both from parts of ourselves and from the emanations of the world around us.

 

Our personal power has two components: Intent and Will. Intent is the power to align a perception and Will is the power to maintain it. Very much like shooting an arrow to hit a target: Intent aims the arrow, Will is the strength to draw the bow.

 

So the practice of silencing the internal dialogue serves to train our Intent and Will. You will notice as you practice that you will slip in and out of focus, i.e. you will be silent for awhile and then your mind will start chattering and then you bring yourself back to silence. This is the fluctuation of Intent and Will.

 

The more we train our Intent and Will, learning to progressively shift our perception, the more we will loosen our fixations until the Warrior makes the breakthrough of liberating themselves from their fixations completely, referred to as "Stopping the World". This is not just seeing the same view differently, it is the fundamental "movement" of perception to align a completely new view of the world. It is stepping entirely into the "unknown", and is subsequently very hard to speak about.

 

And here the Warrior's true journey takes place. With the liberation of awareness the Warrior is free to perceive the world however they choose. But here is an interesting thing. It is not the Warrior's whim that "chooses" but is instead their personal power ... but that is another story

 

The final point I would like to make for now though is that, through the process of liberating our perception, the Warrior is able to "See". By this I mean that the Warrior's perception is perfectly in sync with the forces of the world around them.

 

Most people are 3 steps behind the truth: First is the phenomena, second is our sensory perception of the phenomena limited by our physical sensory capacity, third is the interpretation of the sensory data filtered by our fixated view of the world. This is even further diluted when we try and explain what we perceived because of the limitations of the spoken language, the other person's capacity to comprehend what was spoken, and then the filtration of that person's view of the world.

 

In other words our perception of the world is really just an echo of reality; our cognition is in fact merely a remembrance of the moment that has already gone.

 

So the act of "Seeing" is the process of removing the interference created from our fixated view of the world and expanding our perception beyond the limitations of physical capacities so that we can "See" life in the full spectrum of its entirety as it is actually happening; we are in fact "quickening" our perception and catching up with life.

 

 

Hello Stig,

That is a fine post covering a great deal of ground!! I would touch on just one point for now where you say, "The final point I would like to make for now though is that, through the process of liberating our perception, the Warrior is able to "See". By this I mean that the Warrior's perception is perfectly in sync with the forces of the world around them"

 

I feel that the last sentence in this paragraph could use some clairification? That is in the sense that the spiritual warrior is in sync with the root of all forces, thus can see into (and or intuit) all of the forces arising there-from, including those of the "world".

 

Om

[Marblehead]

Hehehe, I have no problems with that which was mentioned in my previous post... (which a partial quote changes the connotation of, ) but I often have all the other common, A-Z type of problems that a human being has to work on.

 

"But yes, the Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. But we still try to describe some of its characteristics" by MH, and agreed here.

 

Om

 

 

Just checking with you problem status. Hehehe.

 

And Yea!!! Three Cheers!!!! We have an agreement!!!

[Stigweard]

Hello Stig,

That is a fine post covering a great deal of ground!! I would touch on just one point for now where you say, "The final point I would like to make for now though is that, through the process of liberating our perception, the Warrior is able to "See". By this I mean that the Warrior's perception is perfectly in sync with the forces of the world around them"

 

I feel that the last sentence in this paragraph could use some clairification? That is in the sense that the spiritual warrior is in sync with the root of all forces, thus can see into (and or intuit) all of the forces arising there-from, including those of the "world".

 

Om

Heya 3bob, I certainly respect what you are saying. If I was to give an encyclopedic clarification on Seeing it would be:

 

"Seeing is the direct and instantaneous flow of knowledge between the perceiver and the perceived."

 

Not sure if this is saying the same as you.

 

[3bob]

Heya 3bob, I certainly respect what you are saying. If I was to give an encyclopedic clarification on Seeing it would be:

 

"Seeing is the direct and instantaneous flow of knowledge between the perceiver and the perceived."

 

Not sure if this is saying the same as you.

 

 

Hello Stig,

That sounds along the same lines. I meant something like seeing and understanding all the pieces of a multi-dimensional problem nearly instantaneously instead of being stuck with only a slow and tedious process of problem solving for same. (which can still be used up to a point) In other words 3d can easily and quickly see 2d, but 2d is always stuck with the powers of 2d and can never really see 3d. (and also extrapolate that idea out)

 

3Bob

Edited November 11, 2010 by 3bob

[Stigweard]

Hello Stig,

That sounds along the same lines. I meant something like seeing and understanding all the pieces of a multi-dimensional problem nearly instantaneously instead of being stuck with only a slow and tedious process of problem solving for same. (which can still be used up to a point) In other words 3d can easily and quickly see 2d, but 2d is always stuck with the powers of 2d and can never really see 3d. (and also extrapolate that idea out)

 

3Bob

So nice to see agreement taking place