The Way of the Warrior

[onlyindreams]

If you truly know yourself. you wouldn't deal in absolutes. No offence but you haven't scratched the surface in my opinion.

 

None taken.

But my self knows this to be fact. That was an outpouring of thought from something I felt intensely. A feeling that can make my heart ache and tears well up in my eyes whenever it arises.

 

When I said I "know myself", I meant that in the way conventional language frames it.

 

 

 

"There is just this and nothing else."

That phrase, spoken by an esteemed Zen priest hours before his death, best helps me sense the ineffable truth that I think you are referring to...

Edited November 1, 2010 by onlyindreams

[Jetsun]

Someone with Taoist healing knowledge could do a huge amount of good for the military by using their knowledge to treat soldiers with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, there are hundreds or maybe thousands of ex soldiers living in the hell of having experiences which overloaded their nervous system but then having no method to discharge that survival energy, they just get given drugs. I saw one programme about it where one therapist was describing some of his patients bodies as "literally vibrating" all day long with PTSD, but the military don't really know what to do with them, whereas some decent grounding Qigong could perhaps help .

 

I know of one Canadian professor who used grounding Qigong to help PTSD victims from a Tsunami to good effect so it could be more widely applied if people were open enough to try it.

[onlyindreams]

Granted there are those who do not learn the lesson, or miss it completely, but how is that different than anyone eles in soceity who misses the lessons that life tries to teach them?

 

I appreciated this.

[onlyindreams]

War is a racket.

 

True. But it has always been that way in a sense. Depends on one's perspective.

 

 

War is a force of nature and men, governments, nations have much less control over it than imagined...

 

You may think me foolish but I believe in karma and I believe in the unfathomable and subtle influence that the stars and cosmic bodies have on human behavior, especially on a global scale.

 

 

My belief is that war is essentially a massive game played out by men with hormones and essences that NEED to be expressed.

 

It's a game I'll willingly play.

Edited November 1, 2010 by onlyindreams

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

If you really want to go for it all and transform yourself in the process, see if you have what it takes to become a SEAL.

 

That said, I somewhat agree with Scotty. True warriorship does not require being in the military, indeed, it may even make it harder. The kind of warriorship Gurdjieff, Castaneda and de Ropp speak of is something more profound, and being a Marine has not much at all to do with being a spiritual warrior. You're only 21, and your fire is burning brightly, and your desire to manifest what you believe to be warriorship is strong. But it is really an internal process, not an external one. You need to separate the two, and then see if the Marines is still what you want. I have a few other books I can recommend that may help you get clear, because it seems to me that you have done a lot of thinking and reflection on this, but perhaps you have not gathered enough data and information and talked to many others. You might join the Marines and find out that your notions are romantic ones, and that it is not at all where you want or need to be.

[Jetsun]

War is a racket.

 

True. But it has always been that way in a sense. Depends on one's perspective.

 

 

War is a force of nature and men, governments, nations have much less control over it than imagined...

 

You may think me foolish but I believe in karma and I believe in the unfathomable and subtle influence that the stars and cosmic bodies have on human behavior, especially on a global scale.

 

 

My belief is that war is essentially a massive game played out by men with hormones and essences that NEED to be expressed.

 

It's a game I'll willingly play.

 

The work Gurdjieff taught was all about becoming less under the influence of the stars and cosmic bodies, he described those people involved in war as under the influence of mass psychosis and much of the drive of his work was because of the horrors of living through two world wars and attempting to do all he could to uproot this mass psychosis or at least give some people the option not to take part in it. He described the will of people to destroy each others existence as an abomination of nature and one of the chief evils of Kunderbuffer/ego and the whole point of his teachings was so that mans hormones and drives could be expressed and transmuted without war.

[Aetherous]

Why do I want to put myself in the shit?

To see if I can hang, to see if I can excel

 

Well, I am not judging you personally (in fact you seem like a good person), but that's an insane reason in my opinion. Very common, though...so I understand.

[3bob]

The wars against American Indians were based on grand lies, and not just something that took place along with the minor imperfections of a government. After study of that and other examples in detail and then we may begin to understand the saying, "we have met the enemy and he is us".

 

A true spiritual warrior does not create an enemy, nor more madness and suffering.

 

Om

[onlyindreams]

If you really want to go for it all and transform yourself in the process, see if you have what it takes to become a SEAL.

 

That said, I somewhat agree with Scotty. True warriorship does not require being in the military, indeed, it may even make it harder. The kind of warriorship Gurdjieff, Castaneda and de Ropp speak of is something more profound, and being a Marine has not much at all to do with being a spiritual warrior. You're only 21, and your fire is burning brightly, and your desire to manifest what you believe to be warriorship is strong. But it is really an internal process, not an external one. You need to separate the two, and then see if the Marines is still what you want. I have a few other books I can recommend that may help you get clear, because it seems to me that you have done a lot of thinking and reflection on this, but perhaps you have not gathered enough data and information and talked to many others. You might join the Marines and find out that your notions are romantic ones, and that it is not at all where you want or need to be.

 

One step at a time for me.

 

I agree that being / becoming a Marine does not have much to do with being a 'spiritual' warrior. I see why the discussion was led that way. I merely see my eventual experience in the Marines as simply one leg of the long journey... a stepping stone of sorts that will lead me to deeper levels of realization.

 

I also agree that the true transformative process is completely internal and personal.

 

You're not far off the mark when you say that many of my notions are entirely romantic and perhaps setting me up for annihilation of one sort or another. Live and learn, no?

 

 

 

What is the warriorship that Gurdjieff and his contemporaries espouse?

 

What is true warriorship to you?

 

What advice would you offer to one who seeks to differentiate the two?

 

What are the pitfalls that one should be aware of when seeking along this path of warriorship in this age?

Edited November 1, 2010 by onlyindreams

[onlyindreams]

The work Gurdjieff taught was all about becoming less under the influence of the stars and cosmic bodies, he described those people involved in war as under the influence of mass psychosis and much of the drive of his work was because of the horrors of living through two world wars and attempting to do all he could to uproot this mass psychosis or at least give some people the option not to take part in it. He described the will of people to destroy each others existence as an abomination of nature and one of the chief evils of Kunderbuffer/ego and the whole point of his teachings was so that mans hormones and drives could be expressed and transmuted without war.

 

But until then...

 

 

And where best to exemplify a radically different way of being, perceiving, and relating, to influence and bring about lasting change into the hearts of those that serve, suffer, kill, and die but from within the machine itself?

[onlyindreams]

The wars against American Indians were based on grand lies, and not just something that took place along with the minor imperfections of a government. After study of that and other examples in detail and then we may begin to understand the saying, "we have met the enemy and he is us".

 

A true spiritual warrior does not create an enemy, nor more madness and suffering.

 

Om

 

 

"we have met the enemy and he is us..."

 

i know i am my own worst enemy. i have put myself through much suffering by [unconsciously] hanging onto painful states of being, but overcoming those individual struggles, detaching from them and seeing them for what they really were has gone a long way into my development on all levels.

 

can that not carry over? if we have met the enemy and he is us, what is to be done then? simply resting in that realization does nothing. what is required then? doing? not doing? undoing?

Edited November 2, 2010 by onlyindreams

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Better to walk away than fight

Better to hurt than to maim

Better to maim than to kill

Better to kill than to be killed

 

Better to be a warrior in the garden

Than a gardener in the war..

 

There is no difference between spirit and flesh, they are both the energy that is You.. to train either is train both.

 

Be well..

[TzuJanLi]

Just returned from an academic lunch talk. (All claims are unsubstantiated by me.)

 

* Upon returning from war, each returning war vet traumatizes 7-9 people

* 1/4 of the U.S. population may be traumatized by the current war effort

* 30 % of Vietnam war vets have killed

* 80 % of Iraq war vets have killed

I do not understand these numbers.. what does the % have killed mean, in combat or after returning?

 

Unsubstantiated data like this leads to misinformation influencing people's beliefs and is irresponsible, i.e.: what is meant by 'traumatizes', should we fear war vets?

 

Be well..

[Marblehead]

But is that possible. At least we can try!

 

All humans should strive for this. Once all people are there violence will end from the world. Peace will reign. We will have saints walking around all over the world. No need for police, army, military.

 

People will have no fear of death. Utopia.

 

Hi Blume,

 

That is a beautiful vision and I do support it 100%.

 

But until that day arrives I suggest that we should protect ourselves and those who are dearest to us. If this means having a police force and a military then so be it.

[Marblehead]

A true spiritual warrior does not create an enemy, nor more madness and suffering.

 

Om

 

This is true but he does remain conscious of reality and when he sees someone coming at him with a sword he will prepare defensive strategies rther than wait to see if the person coming toward him will really follow through and do him in.

 

Act on it before it comes into fruit.

[3bob]

"we have met the enemy and he is us..."

 

i know i am my own worst enemy. i have put myself through much suffering by [unconsciously] hanging onto painful states of being, but overcoming those individual struggles, detaching from them and seeing them for what they really were has gone a long way into my development on all levels.

 

can that not carry over? if we have met the enemy and he is us, then what is to be done then? simply resting in that realization does nothing. what is required then? doing? not doing? undoing?

 

That is an ages old question that so many have deeply wrestled with... what do the teachings of Aikido (or perhaps Judo) say to you in regards to it?

 

"...what is required then? doing? not doing? undoing?" It seems all three would be- at the right time and place balanced with the help from a humble, empowered and fearless master.

 

Om

Edited November 1, 2010 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

"we have met the enemy and he is us..."

 

I am tired of seeing this quote and feel a need to speak to it.

 

"I am my own best friend." If I were the only person in my life I would have no enemies.

 

No, I must suggest that if you think you have no enemies then you are very, very delusional. If you have anything of value whatsoever I suggest that there are many 'out there' who would take it from you in a heartbeat if you left it unguarded for any length of time. And to all you guys who have a desirable wife or mate, that includes her too.

[Marblehead]

Greetings..

 

Better to walk away than fight

Better to hurt than to maim

Better to maim than to kill

Better to kill than to be killed

 

Better to be a warrior in the garden

Than a gardener in the war..

 

There is no difference between spirit and flesh, they are both the energy that is You.. to train either is train both.

 

Be well..

 

Well said, I think.

[Marblehead]

Just returned from an academic lunch talk. (All claims are unsubstantiated by me.)

 

* Upon returning from war, each returning war vet traumatizes 7-9 people

* 1/4 of the U.S. population may be traumatized by the current war effort

* 30 % of Vietnam war vets have killed

* 80 % of Iraq war vets have killed

 

I am living proof that invalidates point number 1.

 

I have no data to argue against any of the others although I would hit on point number 4 first if I decided to do the research because I believe it is very, very wrong.

[3bob]

Well said, I think.

 

Better to know one's personal dharmas/ways... and thus naturally be a gardener or a soldier or a householder or a monk, etc., etc. accordingly. (all which can be warriors in their own way)

 

Om

[Seth Ananda]

I personally like Marbleheads 'I'll help you if I can, I'll kill you if I must' and as far as de-militarisation goes I also share the 'trust in God, but tie up your camels' perspective.

Its such a tricky Issue. If we keep building arms, so will everyone else. Thats why its called the Arms race...

But If we just throw away all our defences we are open and vulnerable to whoever...

 

But on the Spiritual warrior thing I do not think that is possible in the American army.

America is the bully of the world. Nearly every war it sends its soldiers too is an unjust war, murdering oppressed people.

 

If you join the Marines, you follow orders. No matter what they tell you to do.

 

You do not transform into some Loving super man, you turn into a physically elite, order obeying number within a larger body. You get given state of the art equipment, and you get sent to what ever poor country has the balls to try and keep their Oil for themselves, where you kill their civilians.

Sure you get told that you are there to over throw some dictator, so you can pat your self on the back as you toast villagers, but scratch the surface and you find America put the 'dictator' there after the previous 'dictator' tried to sell his beloved country's oil at a fair price.

 

I am not anti military, just anti American military foreign policy.

If you could find some military function that only serves in a 'defence' capacity, [like Aikido principles] then Great.

 

But if you think you can turn travelling to someone else's country to burn their people alive, to bomb them, pummel them with Depleted Uranium which will poison their land and atmosphere and deform their children for years to come, and then Steal the one and only valuable resource they own [oil], If you think you can turn that into something spiritual then you are seriously deluded...

 

In the Army you do not get to choose who you think is deserving of extreme force and who is not. And the memories of desperate peasants armed with Ak's and empty bellies who are just trying to defend their family's from a Monstrous foreign force, while you utterly destroy them, [while listening to death metal played through your helmets to keep you psyched] will Haunt you forever.

 

Don't do it. Have the Guts to be your own Man, stand on your own, under your own rule rather than becoming a order obeying killing machine.

 

Even Join peace core, or become some gang busting Vigilante. At least you decide who to fight.

Even working security or being a bouncer, That way you can be sure that you will only be functioning as a protector.

 

Better yet, devote your life to serious Martial Art training, every day, and embody the principles you read about, and one day You will Inspire so many young people to stand for something and to live well. Your Dojo would be a place of Respect.

 

 

I've said my peace. Choose wisely my friend and have a Good Life.

 

Seth.

[TzuJanLi]

America is the bully of the world. Nearly every war it sends its soldiers too is an unjust war, murdering oppressed people.

 

If you join the Marines, you follow orders. No matter what they tell you to do.

 

Don't do it. Have the Guts to be your own Man, stand on your own, under your own rule rather than becoming a order obeying killing machine.

 

I've said my peace. Choose wisely my friend and have a Good Life.

 

Seth.

I take exception, as an American, to the grave charges you have irresponsibly posted..

 

America is NOT the government and is NOT the military.. America is brilliant dream conceived by men and women of great hope and vision.. America is an idea that has yet to reach its potential.. it is pandering tripe like you have posted that tarnishes the dream and the vision, that regardless of greed and skullduggery behind behind the motives, good, brave, and decent men and women died or were forever scarred.. not for the greed, they didn't know.. not for the corrupt intentions, they didn't know.. they setaside their lives and their potentials for that great dream, America..

 

If you want to challenge the government on its policies, be specific and know your facts.. but, do not drag America, the vision, hope and dream and the decent men and women made the ultimate sacrifices into your misplaced and misunderstood 'coolness'.. It is that dream of freedom and of free speech that you are enjoying right here and right now, that was bought with blood and honor based on the promise of America.. choose your battles very carefully, losing America is the war we can't afford to lose..

 

I am not fond of US policy, foreign or domestic.. i am less fond of political theater for the purposes of playing Americans like stupid piggy-banks at the expense of the future of America's greatest hope, its childern.. i detest war, and the absurdity that believes it to be a valid resolution for any cause.. and, i'm very good at it, only because the dream that is America will not perish on my watch.. and there are causes, both foreign and domestic, that would see that dream dismantled for an ideology of servitude to greed or god, and i serve no man or ideology or deity.. i do not 'serve' America, it is what i choose to be, an American.. not the representative of the United States of America's government, but an ambassador of the hopes dreams and visions of the founding men and women..

 

So, rethink your vile descriptions of America, and put the blame where it belongs.. on greed and corruption, on government beholdin' to corporate sugar-daddies, and on a nation of people too feeble-minded to speak the truth, and too weak of spirit to hold their elected officials accountable.. and, do not speak ill of the men and women of the military, speak ill of the governments that find it so casually acceptable to negotiate with guns..

 

Be well

[3bob]

I am tired of seeing this quote and feel a need to speak to it.

 

"I am my own best friend." If I were the only person in my life I would have no enemies.

 

No, I must suggest that if you think you have no enemies then you are very, very delusional. If you have anything of value whatsoever I suggest that there are many 'out there' who would take it from you in a heartbeat if you left it unguarded for any length of time. And to all you guys who have a desirable wife or mate, that includes her too.

 

Ok, the evolution of that saying could become something like, "we have met our friend and he is us" or "we have met the life force and it is us". Thus the first saying (related to the enemy) is made in context to that level of reality - which does not cover the whole kit and ca-boodle by a long shot. (no pun intended ;-)

 

Borrowing from a form of Christain saying: If one is rooted in the Tao of whom shall they fear?

 

Om

[goonis38]

Thank you for sharing that.

 

I am 21 years old and was attending a state university through an Army ROTC scholarship. I envisioned myself commissioning as a 2nd LT in a combat arms branch, etc etc.

 

After much time spent in solitude, reflection, contemplation, I have decided to break free from all of that. I am suspending my studies in school and disenrolling from Army ROTC.

 

I plan on enlisting in the Marine Corps as soon as my lease is up.

Hey there,

I'm an Army brat, Dad 25 year special forces, brother 25 year special forces... I am proud of you and the path you have chosen, it isn't for everyone. But you sound like you know what you want and that is great. You will do well...

I was going to join up when I was a young girl, my brother laughed and said "no not for you Melanie" He was right...

Thank God that he mad people like your self and my family to defend what is right, as we can...

May everything run smoothly for you, if it is meant to be, Take care... Melanie

[Seth Ananda]

I take exception, as an American, to the grave charges you have irresponsibly posted..

 

...that regardless of greed and skullduggery behind behind the motives, good, brave, and decent men and women died or were forever scarred.. not for the greed, they didn't know.. not for the corrupt intentions, they didn't know.. they setaside their lives and their potentials for that great dream, America..

 

 

So, rethink your vile descriptions of America, and put the blame where it belongs.. on greed and corruption, on government beholdin' to corporate sugar-daddies, and on a nation of people too feeble-minded to speak the truth, and too weak of spirit to hold their elected officials accountable.. and, do not speak ill of the men and women of the military, speak ill of the governments that find it so casually acceptable to negotiate with guns..

 

Be well

Heheh, I thought I would get a reaction like that

 

So not knowing about why those brave men and women were there excuses them for Murder? Hilarious. If I ever get in trouble can you defend me in court?

 

And you kind of backed up what I was saying in that last bit... As you point out America is rotten to its core. [American Tao Bums excluded!]

 

Those Feeble minded majority, are American, and vote in the Murderers, who send the troops to plunder...

 

The Freedom you are Enjoying and so proudly standing for, and are obviously ready to kill for, you only have due to Economically enslaved third world country's.

 

Our entire way of life relies on oil stolen from the middle east.

 

Comedy reflecting some nasty truth:

 

 

 

Have fun