Is it possible to truly get into meditation?

[Eviander]

I mean in our industrial fast paced coffee driven culture, is it possible to be seriously into meditation aside from all the fashionable merchants who claim they know how to meditate in the western world? Just wondering..

Edited November 2, 2010 by Eviander

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

No.

[Guest paul walter]

Yes. Quit coffee, slow down, then quit your life. Paul

[Seth Ananda]

Yes!

All it takes to be into something is to be into it. Are you Into it? I am

[Thunder_Gooch]

Not without making radical changes to your life, and standard of living.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Yes!

All it takes to be into something is to be into it. Are you Into it? I am

 

That's a damning argument!! I have absolutely no come back, you tied me up like a politician at a bondage festival!

 

I therefore have no other recourse except to say:

 

Yes!

[Aetherous]

Yeah it's totally possible. Many people here are living proof of it. I don't think you have to leave the world to do it, or give up much of anything, besides some time. However, living a "normal life" can be challenging as someone on the spiritual path. But life isn't meant to be comfy for anyone, so:

 

Just do it.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

As long as you are asking that question seriously in reference to yourself, then no...

[onlyindreams]

Not without making radical changes to your life, and standard of living.

 

and not without a SINCERE desire.

[C T]

The Tibetan word for Meditation is 'Gom'. Its a most appropriate word that is totally relevant to today's world.

 

Gom, loosely translated, means 'getting used to' - for someone used to a particular way of life, a set of beliefs, or some habitual, quirky ways of looking at things, they would use Gom in the context. They also use Gom in relation to meditation practices.

 

Very pragmatic indeed. For a culture so steeped in mysticism, one would think they would have as mystical a word to describe something that many see as very deep and profound. But no, they say meditation is the same as getting used to something, or making something newly acquired into habit. Once it becomes habit, it is no longer a necessity to always be mulling over what it is, how it is, and why it is. It replaces old habits, and one begins to see with 'new eyes'.

 

So, whatever it is we are used to, that is Gom.

 

If we are used to delusion, then delusion is our Gom.

 

If we are used to ignorance, then that too is our Gom.

 

If we are used to the fixated routine of drinking 16 cups of coffee a day, then this is our Gom.

 

When we decide that we are no longer happy with certain thoughts and behaviors that are limiting our spiritual aspirations, and earnestly set out to replace the old patterns with new ones, then all it takes to succeed in this is... you guessed it, Gom!

 

To answer this question set by the OP, i would say that if 'Nay' is perceived, then Nay becomes the Gom, and if 'Aye' is perceived, then this too, becomes the Gom.

 

Neither one is better than the other... its about investigation of habits, and see which ones have made us comfortable. They are the ones that usually need to be discarded.

 

The process undertaken to do this investigation, is again, Gom.

 

I think its a good way of understanding Meditation...

Edited November 2, 2010 by CowTao

[de_paradise]

Its not so much different than being totally into tennis or bodybuilding fitness, or gardening. Its so rare to be a meditator, you know, each of my friends say to me that they dont know of or have heard of anyone who meditates like me. But I say, this stuff is real you know, siddhi, the liberation of the mind from the body. Given that its a fact that our typical material reality is but a small part of the bigger picture, I dont understand how anyone could not meditate like crazy. You know, eventually you just die, ususally the last few years of your life are write-offs as the body degrades--and thats lucky to not get killed in some freak accident. These people, stuck in the sandbox like kids, playing for shiny marbles. Hey kids, theres a way out of the sandbox. They say: Oh no, youre not fooling me, I want more shiny marbles, we like the sandbox and beyond the sandbox is alot of BS made up to control the masses.

 

I spoke with a Nobel prize winning physicist after I attended a TED talk, he gave me the old clunker that belief in spirituality is merely some kind of need to know that theres some kind of afterlife. I told him no way, its the opposite, then I could spend all my time shagging women and making money and being a total hedonist. Brilliant mind, but a kid in the sandbox studying the sandbox.

[Taomeow]

Frederick the Great, the German emperor who ruled Prussia between 1740 and 1786, issued the following proclamation in 1777:

 

"It is disgusting to notice the increase in the quantity of coffee used by my subjects, and the amount of money that goes out of the country in consequence. Everybody is using coffee. My people must drink beer. His Majesty was brought up on beer and so were his ancestors, and his officers. Many battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer, and the King does not believe that coffee-drinking soldiers can be dependent upon to endure hardship or to beat his enemies in case of the occurrence of another war".

 

I always think of people who take big pharma's anti-coffee propaganda to heart as "Frederick's model subjects."

 

He was absolutely correct though in his assessment of coffee-drinking soldiers as somewhat insufficiently bloodthirsty and excessively smart. Coffee has been shown to consistently increase intelligence in habitual users compared to their non-coffee-drinking peers. Which is why attacks on coffee have been arranged by the powers that be consistently throughout history. Smart subjects and smart soldiers are so much more difficult to govern.

 

There was a Turkish sultan who went to the extreme of illegalizing coffee, ordering all of it confiscated and the burlap sacks of coffee drowned in the sea. The subjects rebelled, captured the sultan, stuffed him in a burlap sack and drowned him in the sea. Which is a sure sign no fluoride was added to the water they were using to make their coffee.

[Vajrahridaya]

I mean in our industrial fast paced coffee driven culture, is it possible to be seriously into meditation aside from all the fashionable merchants who claim they know how to meditate in the western world? Just wondering..

 

Of course! All it takes is focus and renunciation of those activities that get in the way of getting into meditation.

 

I have most certainly gotten into deep meditation without leaving the so called "West." I merely left behind my concepts about things, people, places and myself.

[Guest paul walter]

Frederick the Great, the German emperor who ruled Prussia between 1740 and 1786, issued the following proclamation in 1777:

 

"It is disgusting to notice the increase in the quantity of coffee used by my subjects, and the amount of money that goes out of the country in consequence. Everybody is using coffee. My people must drink beer. His Majesty was brought up on beer and so were his ancestors, and his officers. Many battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer, and the King does not believe that coffee-drinking soldiers can be dependent upon to endure hardship or to beat his enemies in case of the occurrence of another war".

 

I always think of people who take big pharma's anti-coffee propaganda to heart as "Frederick's model subjects."

 

He was absolutely correct though in his assessment of coffee-drinking soldiers as somewhat insufficiently bloodthirsty and excessively smart. Coffee has been shown to consistently increase intelligence in habitual users compared to their non-coffee-drinking peers. Which is why attacks on coffee have been arranged by the powers that be consistently throughout history. Smart subjects and smart soldiers are so much more difficult to govern.

 

There was a Turkish sultan who went to the extreme of illegalizing coffee, ordering all of it confiscated and the burlap sacks of coffee drowned in the sea. The subjects rebelled, captured the sultan, stuffed him in a burlap sack and drowned him in the sea. Which is a sure sign no fluoride was added to the water they were using to make their coffee.

 

 

So that's why we live in such an enlightened world, everyone is on coffee? You are so incredibly selective with your facts (self-justifications?)--you know Frederick's statement was in relation to tax issues and trade politics, not coffees pharmacological effects. I'm sure any army could march/kill on its caffeine as much as it marches on its amphetamines. I understand the nature of your reply...

[Gauss]

[Taomeow]

So that's why we live in such an enlightened world, everyone is on coffee? You are so incredibly selective with your facts (self-justifications?)--you know Frederick's statement was in relation to tax issues and trade politics, not coffees pharmacological effects. I'm sure any army could march/kill on its caffeine as much as it marches on its amphetamines. I understand the nature of your reply...

 

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[Apech]

I mean in our industrial fast paced coffee driven culture, is it possible to be seriously into meditation aside from all the fashionable merchants who claim they know how to meditate in the western world? Just wondering..

 

I think it's partly a danger of doubting the power of meditation and teachings that makes us worry about the speed of the world. For me meditation is not about abstracting yourself from the world but is (partly) about being able to deal with it. You have to afford yourself space, time and some peaceful environment to have successful practice but a powerful meditator can do it in a chaotic environment also. In fact this is almost the point - that your mind/being is essentially free and not dependent on the objective world around it. Don't be subject to the object (is one way of putting it). Its not easy ... but it never was.

 

The 'fashionable merchants' are just trying to sell you something that pretends to bypass the difficulties. Meditation works but you just have to stick at it and slowly, slowly make real lasting progress.

 

Coffee? I tried to cut it out once. But I felt after a bit ... there was no real harm in moderate coffee drinking.

[Birch]

Yes it is And it doesn't have to come with any holier than thou's or anti-anything.

 

My experience so far is you get your mind back. It's yours after all might as well fill it with what you want to fill it with, or leave it empty if you prefer.

 

I liked Cow Tao's post. Apech's was good too. It's just that the very beginning of it seemed hard. There are some myths of it taking decades for people to get good at it. I'm sure the experts have taken a long time but I was surprised how (relatively) fast you can do it, if you stick with it.

[That Guy]

I can't say I enjoy meditation, in the sense that when I am done I don't go "wow that was awesome! can't wait for the next session! "

 

All the meditation I have done is simply in search of a reason to meditate.

 

So far all I've got is a tingly sensation in my hands/arms when I move them close to my upper body after a few minutes of meditation. Is that chi? I don't know, but though interesting, it hasn't really kept me coming back for more.

 

I'm just in search of a path, but I can't find any that I know are worth following. I just know I'd still like to meet john chang someday, experience the phenomena for myself, after all my journey really started at the age of 16 I think, when I saw a documentary on the history channel about spontaneous human combustion. At the end of this documentary, a mystery man set some newspaper on fire, it was awesome. Wanst until 5 years later though, with internet in my life, that I could really pick up the trail.

 

Well thats enough off topic, I just feel talkative tonight, thats all.

[Eviander]

I guess its just a personal thing. Because I subjectively never see myself getting past the threshold while living in society. I am already planning on taking many 6 month or maybe even year on end meditation retreats..just so I can actually get somewhere.

 

Again it could be just something that effects me, but I feel like I am unable to "get it" in my current life situation.

[Apech]

I guess its just a personal thing. Because I subjectively never see myself getting past the threshold while living in society. I am already planning on taking many 6 month or maybe even year on end meditation retreats..just so I can actually get somewhere.

 

Again it could be just something that effects me, but I feel like I am unable to "get it" in my current life situation.

 

If you can get away for 6 month or a year then that's helpful - but that would be impossible for lots of people. Also I think you will get more out of the retreat if meditation is embedded in your daily life anyway.

 

Each to his own of course and we all need to feel what is right for us to do - its not the same for everyone.

[Apech]

I can't say I enjoy meditation, in the sense that when I am done I don't go "wow that was awesome! can't wait for the next session! "

 

All the meditation I have done is simply in search of a reason to meditate.

 

So far all I've got is a tingly sensation in my hands/arms when I move them close to my upper body after a few minutes of meditation. Is that chi? I don't know, but though interesting, it hasn't really kept me coming back for more.

 

I'm just in search of a path, but I can't find any that I know are worth following. I just know I'd still like to meet john chang someday, experience the phenomena for myself, after all my journey really started at the age of 16 I think, when I saw a documentary on the history channel about spontaneous human combustion. At the end of this documentary, a mystery man set some newspaper on fire, it was awesome. Wanst until 5 years later though, with internet in my life, that I could really pick up the trail.

 

Well thats enough off topic, I just feel talkative tonight, thats all.

 

In my experience meditation is only actually enjoyable at certain stages - sometimes its hard work and/or uncomfortable or even painful.

 

If your goal is chi generation (I think meditation as such has wider aims than this) then stillness, physical and mental is the key. Perhaps I should say inner stillness because you might actually be moving when still (if this makes sense) such as in Tai Chi or Chi Gong. Part of this is letting go of expectation - let go of images of what might happen and just do the practice.

[z00se]

Yeah it is possible to get into it. You gotta get past the hump then ur whole life can be about it. You don't have to give up everything just the things you don't need. But not because you want to meditate, just because you will find it will give your meditation easier. You don't even need to give things up untill you find you have no use for them anymore!

 

Now i do it before i wake up, on the way to work, while at work, on the way home, and any little bits i can in between. The more i do it the easier it becomes. It's like saving your energy so you can use it later. You can choose to use your energy at any time but if you can save heaps you can just live on your excess and still live with piles of energy to spare.

 

First you feel tired, recovering from any excess energy you've overspent. Then you start saving it and you can always be in the black and not the red like a bank account. Sitting meditation is only a beginning so you can learn to do it in every day life. Thats when it becomes wonderful.

 

REASONS TO BE INTO MEDITATION:

 

Don't worry so much any more

Don't think about the same thing over and over again

Do something about things you think about and make positive changes to your life rather than just having good intensions

Have excess energy to do the things you always wanted to do

Having a wider perspective and realizing the things that really matter

Not being bored, being able to change the boring times into fun meditative times that you have fun doing and make your life experiences (times when ur not bored) even more fun!

 

And they are just the general things. There are lots of specific things but it depends on an individual needs.

 

If you're 16 and having a great life i wouldn't waste my time with it. It could make life better but it's great already how it is and it's good to have life without meditation i think. But as you get older or if you have an illness it's wonderful. I'm only 28, been doing it for 4 years and now it's one of the top priorities in my life that nobody can take away. It can be anything you want it to be. If you've given it a decent go for a period of time you will be able to tailor it and It really is training yourself to be how you want to be.

[That Guy]

In my experience meditation is only actually enjoyable at certain stages - sometimes its hard work and/or uncomfortable or even painful.

 

If your goal is chi generation (I think meditation as such has wider aims than this) then stillness, physical and mental is the key. Perhaps I should say inner stillness because you might actually be moving when still (if this makes sense) such as in Tai Chi or Chi Gong. Part of this is letting go of expectation - let go of images of what might happen and just do the practice.

I've pretty much dropped all expectation, the only thing I expect really is something, whatever it may be.

But then you know, since I don't really enjoy it, when I'm done its like "man, I could have spent that time improving my skills on this or learning more about that..."

 

If I had some big expectations I knew for sure would come, then I might meditate a lot.

[Apech]

I've pretty much dropped all expectation, the only thing I expect really is something, whatever it may be.

But then you know, since I don't really enjoy it, when I'm done its like "man, I could have spent that time improving my skills on this or learning more about that..."

 

If I had some big expectations I knew for sure would come, then I might meditate a lot.

 

Why do you do it then?