Input on San Shou/Sanda/Xanda

[Peregrino]

I know that earlier posts mentioned Scott Sonnon's victory in a San Shou tournament (even though he has a Sambo background), but I was wondering if any TB members have themselves trained in San Shou? There's a "Sanda" school in my town that I'd like to check out (it's towards the outskirts, otherwise I would have stopped by ages ago). I really need to train grappling again, but I'd like to train it in conjunction (i.e., working that "flow") with striking, which is definitely my forte.

 

I've read that San Shou/Sanda/Xanda does teach lots of effective techniques for self-defense, although several of these (chokes, elbow strikes, arm bars) are prohibited in competition. I'd like to train that combination--what you can use to test your skills safely in sparring and competition, and what you can use to defend yourself in a life-or-death situation (e.g. keeping in mind that a simple jab from boxing can effectively convert to a finger jab aimed at the eyes, as Bruce Lee taught).

 

Sanda is the only thing close to MMA I can find in my town, so I'm wondering how it compares to other MMA training methods (BJJ, submission wrestling, shootfighting, pankrase, etc.).

 

BTW, I heard that pankrase was supposed to become an Olympic Sport and Frank Shamrock was vying to become the US coach. Anyone heard any updates on that?

[sean]

(bump) There's a school that teaches San Shou in my neighborhood that looks really cool. Their direct lineage is with Grandmaster Wong Jack Man, that guy that kicked Bruce Lee's ass if I'm not mistaken.

 

Sean

[Peregrino]

Thanks, Sean!

 

I must say though, I think you have the "Wong" Jack Man, har har har! I guess that's just your Oakland bias, right? (Or was there another fight between Lee and WJM outside of the one that took place in Oakland, and supposedly ended up with WJM running around the kwoon in an attempt to avoid a beatdown?)

 

I've since found this interesting article by a Chinese martial arts practitioner who's rather critical of San Shou--not for being "untraditional," but for not being innovative enough. He claims, "Sanshou today is virtually a watered down version of amateur Muay Thai. This shows an unwilling admittance of the superiority of Muay Thai techniques & the importance of contact sparring." After giving an interesting history of encounters between various kung fu fighters and kickboxers (incl. Benny "the Jet" Urquidez) and muay thai fighters, he has this to say:

 

Some say that the perfect martial art is a smooth integration of Muay Thai & Jujutsu. I believe there are merits to this belief. Already many western NHB fighters have combined Boxing & Wrestling to great effect. Perhaps in the future another 'Bruce Lee' will lead our obsolete Kung Fu/Wushu to that stage of development? If only he had not died so young; till then let us continue learning as openly as we can.

 

Still, I'd like to check it out. Besides putting out an ad seeking a "vale tudo"-style sparring and training partner, training San Shao seems the closest I can get to integrated sparring here in Vigo. I do envy all the martial arts option you have out in CA!

[sean]

I must say though, I think you have the "Wong" Jack Man, har har har! I guess that's just your Oakland bias, right? (Or was there another fight between Lee and WJM outside of the one that took place in Oakland, and supposedly ended up with WJM running around the kwoon in an attempt to avoid a beatdown?)

HAhah! Yes, it must have been my Oakland bias, I have the story completely wrong. This is the version I read but it leaves it a little more controversial than Lee's account.

 

My extremely limited understanding is that San Shou is not really a traditional style of it's own, more like a set of tournament rules that people then train for. Is that right?

 

I would have to agree that the most effective combination of training for a fight would be Brazilian jiu-jitsu, Muay Thai and straight up boxing. But if you are interested specifically in a more or less effective CMA, see if you can find a good Bajiquan teacher if you can. Otherwise San Shou is probably your best bet. Anything with live, full resistance sparring though as that tends to weed out the bullshit.

 

Sean

[Peregrino]

I'll have to read what the "other" side has to say on the matter . . . In the meantime, here's a highly-evolved debate along the lines of "My master can beat up your master!"

 

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4783

 

I'm just a fiend for drilling and conditioning. It is important for me to practice realistic--even deadly-- techniques that are effective in self-defense situations, like a lot of the attacks to the vitals and joints you find in more traditional Chinese martial arts. Still, I'm not sure how much extra time it takes to drill those techniques (e.g. converting a boxing jab to a finger-jab and doing reps aimed at an eye-sized target), as opposed to the kind of drilling it takes to build up speed and power for techniques in general, whether they can apply to competition or "real-life" situations.

 

I know what I'm really missing out on right now is sparring. I only sporadically attend boxing classes at my gym--usually I train alone and drill what I know, or the coach takes me aside for some mitt work. When I look at the martial artists I most admire, however (Bruce Lee, Joe Lewis, the Gracies, MMA competitors like Maurice Smith), I notice that sparring is the nucleus of their training, for both developing skill and conditioning. Shucks, I gotta step to it . . .

 

San Shou might then satisfy a lot of my criteria after all . . . I'd just have to make a point of "filling in the gaps," e.g. working to toughen my shins on my own time (since in San Shou they wear shin pads), and finding a grappling partner with whom to drill all those prohibited chokes and joint locks. Still, I'm psyched to check it out, as much as I would hate to give up my boxing gym altogether. (The trainer's a European cruiserweight champ, and an all-around great guy.)

 

And dang, there are supposed to be some great JKD trainers in Spain, but they're all far away (Madrid, Barcelona, Malaga, etc.). Again, I do envy the cornucopia of martial arts options you have in Cali!