NLP

[mike1234]

As an illustration of the potential power of NLP type stuff as a tool to influence others check out the october man sequence, the mother of all mindfuck tools.

 

I'm saying this forcefully, but it is not an attack on Markern-- you are just giving us an example of a NLP pattern.

 

The October man sequence is for losers. Why would someone desire to run such a pattern on another person when through NLP and other more powerful techniques you can develop yourself into the kind of person that women (people) would enjoy to be around. Why hack the world when you can simply hack yourself? I would rather develop my personality, and develop a form of charisma that attracts people.

 

Tom Vizzini said it best, the PUA community and their tactics are about lowering the self-esteem of women to the level of the lowly pickup artist. Neg hit LOL

 

I'm not an expert in NLP, but I find the following from NLP useful in my life: anchoring, understanding my/others presuppositions, and modeling.

Edited November 8, 2010 by mike1234

[Kris]

But seriously, it seems like there is some really important neurological technology that if consciously used, can be of great benefit to those on the path of spiritual development. If there are any who can point out the really helpful stuff? Are there any here who have deeply explored NLP, rather than just dabbling?

 

I've played with NLP over the last 6 or so years.

 

The basic skill in NLP is the ability take a genius and copy what she does so that you consistently get the same result and put it into a format that anybody can use. This is called modelling.

 

Almost everything that is called NLP today is the result of this proccess. Very few bother to learn and practice modelling in any real way. The result is that there are lots of practitioners and trainers out there that teaches patterns without any deeper understanding of NLP.

 

The really helpful stuff in my oppinion comes from John Grinder. If you want to experience the real razors edge of NLP go train with him. If you're a taoist you will see wu wei in action, if you're a buddhist you'll experience the definition of skillfull means, if you're into zen you will see somebody acting with mushin and so on. I'm not kidding.

 

The most accessible source of "Grinder style" NLP is probably the book "Turtles All the Way Down: Prerequisites to Personal Genius" This is a seminar transcript from the eighties. There is also a MP3 of the seminar (Prerequisites to Personal Genius)floating around the internet that is even better than the book. The content is a bit dated, but it will get you there if you do the work. When you chooose to explore other NLP-stuff this will give you the right foundation and something to measure everything else against. (And you will explore NLP, won't you? NOW.. )

 

The newest book "Wispering in the Wind" is only recommended for the bravest of the brave. The content is pretty up to date, but is written in a way that is less than accessible.

 

In my personal life I use NLP to reach "spritual goals." Some NLP patterns are extreamly effective compared to the methods used in most traditions.

 

- Kris

Edited November 8, 2010 by Kris

[Kris]

The October man sequence is for losers.

 

Agreed. Skillfull use of NLP gives you the ability to create win-win solutions. Why use it to create anything less?

 

 

-Kris

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Better out than in as they say.... of course now I'm gonna have to go for months of therapy to get over it.

 

 

 

 

Talk about a way to kill your own thread man. Honestly, you and tact aren't exactly good bed fellows..... and thats coming from someone lacking in much of the same

 

We may be able to go to therapy together now, we could get a group discount!

I wasn't referreing to you, ninpo! It was a general call to expertise and experience.

[Birch]

OK, I read the Obama pdf and it ocurred to me that the pdf has almost as much NLP in it as it puports to diagnose.

 

Not sure what to do with it following that.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Kris and Mike1234, that is exactly the kind of posts I was looking for. Modeling a genius does seem incredibly powerful. Could one not model a spiritual genius such as Buddha or Shankhara or Jesus or Trungpa or Norbu or any enlightened being or teacher? Couldn't modeling actually catapult one far beyond with perhaps an actual metaphysical transfer on energy that is not easily possible otherwise, especially if they are not alive?

 

Is modeling necessarily limited to just the outer aspects of the being, or rather can it capture a transference of essence? Without actual experience myself, I like to think that much more is possible than the simple modeling of mere outward characteristics, but I may be wrong. I bet it would depend on the consciousness and limitations (or lack thereof) of the one who is modeling?

Edited November 9, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[ralis]

Kris and Mike1234, that is exactly the kind of posts I was looking for. Modeling a genius does seem incredibly powerful. Could one not model a spiritual genius such as Buddha or Shankhara or Jesus or Trungpa or Norbu or any enlightened being or teacher? Couldn't modeling actually catapult one far beyond with perhaps an actual metaphysical transfer on energy that is not easily possible otherwise, especially if they are not alive?

 

Is modeling necessarily limited to just the outer aspects of the being, or rather can it capture a transference of essence? Without actual experience myself, I like to think that much more is possible than the simple modeling of mere outward characteristics, but I may be wrong. I bet it would depend on the consciousness and limitations (or lack thereof) of the one who is modeling?

 

 

One way to model is to put on the head and body of any genius, teacher, master etc. Not literally, but as a representation of what is desired, internally and externally. Dr. Win Wenger terms this, borrowed genius technique.

 

Dr. Wenger's work combined with NLP are the foundation of my present work. At present I am modeling a teacher to acquire a new skill.

 

http://www.winwenger.com/

 

http://www.learningstrategies.com/Genius/Home.asp

 

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link_code=qs&field-keywords=win%20wenger&sourceid=Mozilla-search

Edited November 9, 2010 by ralis

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

One way to model is to put on the head and body of any genius, teacher, master etc. Not literally, but as a representation of what is desired, internally and externally. Dr. Win Wenger terms this, borrowed genius technique.

 

Dr. Wenger's work combined with NLP are the foundation of my present work. At present I am modeling a teacher to acquire a new skill.

 

http://www.winwenger.com/

 

http://www.learningstrategies.com/Genius/Home.asp

 

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link_code=qs&field-keywords=win%20wenger&sourceid=Mozilla-search

 

 

I like Wenger's work. I followed it some years ago and derived some benefit. I actually did the practice one summer of extended breath holding when I was housesitting where a pool was about 7 years ago. I can't remember the parameters, it was something like 100 minutes (?) swimming underwater holding the breath with some other specifics. Actually did it exactly as instructed, but never noticed any appreciable brainpower benefits.

[Vajrahridaya]

Kris and Mike1234, that is exactly the kind of posts I was looking for. Modeling a genius does seem incredibly powerful. Could one not model a spiritual genius such as Buddha or Shankhara or Jesus or Trungpa or Norbu or any enlightened being or teacher? Couldn't modeling actually catapult one far beyond with perhaps an actual metaphysical transfer on energy that is not easily possible otherwise, especially if they are not alive?

 

Is modeling necessarily limited to just the outer aspects of the being, or rather can it capture a transference of essence? Without actual experience myself, I like to think that much more is possible than the simple modeling of mere outward characteristics, but I may be wrong. I bet it would depend on the consciousness and limitations (or lack thereof) of the one who is modeling?

 

Wow! I'm in full agreement and emphatic yes... to the second paragraph!

[goldisheavy]

I believe there are some members here who have studied NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming). Every time I come across it, it seems like an interesting technology to improve one's life, to become more productive and successful, and to 'hack' one's own mind and habits. It doesn't appear to have any spiritual or energetic effects. It seems to me to be very useful. Anyone with experiences or opinions of NLP? Does it deliver what it promises? Best way to learn it?

 

I used an NLP technique before even knowing someone else called it 'NLP'. This just shows that many of these things are primordial wisdom and available to us all if we only listen. Anyway, I found that when cars honked I jumped a bit. I didn't like that. What I would do is replay the events in my mind as they occurred, but without me jumping. Did that work? You bet. After doing this only a few times all jumping stopped. Did I get enlightened? Not really. It was just a small and practical effect. I already knew at the time that the mind was very powerful, so when it worked, it wasn't big news to me.

 

I think NLP is very valuable in the same way energy practice is -- it is functional. It gets you some level of tangible here and now results. It can also help you become wiser and more enlightened by allowing you to see just what is possible when you use your mind creatively.

 

Also, if you look at some of the Buddhist meditations with meditational deities, you'll see that it's straight up NLP, but Buddhists had it thousands of years ago. Take for example this sequence of meditations done over some years: first you meditate with Buddha's head facing yours. Then you meditate with Buddha's head over yours. Then you meditate with Buddha's head inside your head. Then you meditate replacing your head with Buddha's head. Then you mediate inside the Buddha's whole body. Then you do the same meditation and recognize yourself as Buddha. There is a practice like this in Buddhism.

 

In a way NLP is just many of the same techniques practiced in spiritual circles but without the baggage of foreign traditions, and plus with some extra Western baggage instead. So you get rid of a lot of baggage and add some of our own baggage, and that's what you get.

 

That's my view of it.

Edited November 9, 2010 by goldisheavy

[LBDaoist]

NLP was my first step toward developing spirituality. It was a great instructional manual for how the mind can work. Things like eye accessing cues are a load of nonsense. On the other hand the meta-model is a gold mine. The hypnotic techniques of Milton Erickson are also very useful.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I wasn't referreing to you, ninpo! It was a general call to expertise and experience.

 

I didn't think you were(although I do like a bit of a dabble!)I just wanted to give your thread a bit of a kick because I felt there was still some life left in it, and it was disappearing. and there was some nice follow on information.

[mike1234]

One cool thing about NLP is that you can anchor all kinds of states: Love going into theta state and blissing out? Create an anchor for that, and whenever you instantly want to go into that level of consciousness fire up the anchor, and boom pow you are back to that level.

 

This morning I got myself into this amazing state where I had an amazing amount of focus-- I was multitasking, answering technical emails, creating a website, and planning a new marketing campaign with EASE. I plan on creating an anchor to instantly get me back into that super efficient business mindset, so that I'm less of a goofball when it comes to business. Imagine what a student could do with this one simple tool?

Edited November 12, 2010 by mike1234

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Anchoring sounds incredibly powerful if it indeed really works. It would seem that it would be helpful to do after a great meditation session, for example.

 

BTW,

 

FOCUS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MULTI-TASKING

 

You were in a hyper-alert state, most probably, but multi-tasking is the opposite of focus.

[mike1234]

 

 

FOCUS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MULTI-TASKING

 

You were in a hyper-alert state, most probably, but multi-tasking is the opposite of focus.

 

I suppose you are right about focusing and multi-tasking, but for me, someone that is constantly daydreaming amd that always has a myriad of random thoughts pumping through my head --- this was the closest thing to focus. I was answering customers question via email on autopilot, while I was focusing on the website and the marketing plan that goes with it. 3 systems running vs the 100 thoughts I normally have running through my head is a major win!

 

I use to listen to these super beta focus cd's, and they never got close to getting me to this level--- I usually ended up with a headache, and a bounce down to alpha.

Edited November 12, 2010 by mike1234