Do No Harm

[adept]

We, as a species should all try to do this. Do No Harm

 

Do No Harm

[Marblehead]

I do try to live by that.

[strawdog65]

We, as a species should all try to do this. Do No Harm

 

Do No Harm

 

 

Hi adept!

 

Yes... Do no harm.

 

We are the decisions we make.

 

Purposefully doing harm to others is to me the destruction of

the self. We can not possibly be on the right path if we are

living a life of callousness towards suffering and ill regard of

own action/non-action.

 

Peace!

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I like that.

[surfingbudda]

[Aaron]

By doing harm to others, one is only doing harm to themselves

 

Lao Tzu - Simply see that you are at the center of the universe, and accept all things and beings as parts of your infinite body. When you perceive that an act done to another is done to yourself, you have understood the great truth.

 

Surfingbudda,

 

If you like that qoute, read Alan Watts "The Book". It goes into that concept in depth as well as how society creates a false image of self.

 

Aaron

Edited December 5, 2010 by Twinner

[surfingbudda]

Thanks Twinner

Maybe I'll check it out sometime when I get a chance, and I read the pile of books I've gotten that I still need to finish

[strawdog65]

Hello Everyone!

 

adept, I hope you don't mind if I co-opt your thread a little?

 

I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are on a question of :

 

What do you think is the most harmful thing we do, not in a physical way

so much but in other ways such as our treatment and judgment of others,

wether we know them or not?

 

So... what do you think is the most harmful of human behaviors?

 

My vote goes towards the harm we do with being constantly negative or cynical.

It has profound effects on everyone we are around, and believe me it stops

being funny at some point and is then nothing but destructive.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Peace!

Edited December 7, 2010 by strawdog65

[strawdog65]

Closing one's heart to another human being (creating the illusion of duality).

 

 

Yes. We are all part of the same whole.

We contribute to the destruction of ourselves

through our ill treatment of others.

 

Peace!

[Marblehead]

My vote goes towards the harm we do with being constantly negative or cynical.

It has profound effects on everyone we are around, and believe me it stops

being funny at some point and is then nothing but destructive.

 

Thoughts?

 

Peace!

 

I will second that. Negativity sucks!

[C T]

Closing one's heart to another human being (creating the illusion of duality).

yes yes yes!

[Soulthriller]

I believe in universal truths, yet I also note that there are different levels of truth, whereas the higher within the domain of consciousness one goes, he or she sees truths that supercede them (polarity is a truth in the third dimension in various things whereas nonduality is a truth seen in higher dimensions of reality. Do no harm is something I associate with the universal rule, in that whatever you do to someone or something else, affects you as well, given the interconnected nature of everything within reality.

 

I wish to present the thought that it is impossible to do no harm within this dimension of reality completely. Even the Natives of the Americas that understood the interconnected nature of everything, and looking at the idea of Indra's Net, we can see humans understand the reality of oneness. However, even these and others have caused varying degrees of harm to other localized fields of consciousness, be it an animal they killed in order to survive another day (albeit blessing the animal for the bounty it has provided) or even the act of cutting down a tree in order to build a shelter for oneself, when it is known that both animals and plants feel pain in these situations.

 

One of the paradoxes of life? From my current position of awareness it seems so. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we are able to continue living the way of "do no harm" in this dense reality where there is unavoidable harm caused to certain aspects in the circle of life? I know there is a group in the East that follows "do no harm" so stringently that they have special face masks to protect them from accidentally harming insects such as flies that would get into their mouths. It's quite a predicament, I feel.

[Marblehead]

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we are able to continue living the way of "do no harm" in this dense reality where there is unavoidable harm caused to certain aspects in the circle of life? I know there is a group in the East that follows "do no harm" so stringently that they have special face masks to protect them from accidentally harming insects such as flies that would get into their mouths. It's quite a predicament, I feel.

 

Okay. It has been argued that 'do no harm' is not one of the concepts put forth by Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu. I have found no justification to support an arguement against this thought.

 

However, I do hold to the concept of 'do no intentional unnecessary harm'. That is, we must kill (or have things killed) in order to eat and stay healthy. We also must protect ourselves. We kill the poison ivy and poison oak plants so we do not become infected. We sometimes have to kill the stinging insects (wasps and hornets) when they begin building a nest in an area where someone could be stung. We must also protect ourselves on occasions from other people. In the process we may have to do harm to another.

 

If 'do no harm' were a universal tenant there would be no natural disasters that caused the death of living organisms. We know this is not the case. Remember, Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu told us to observe the nature of things and try to live within the processes.

[strawdog65]

Okay. It has been argued that 'do no harm' is not one of the concepts put forth by Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu. I have found no justification to support an arguement against this thought.

 

However, I do hold to the concept of 'do no intentional unnecessary harm'. That is, we must kill (or have things killed) in order to eat and stay healthy. We also must protect ourselves. We kill the poison ivy and poison oak plants so we do not become infected. We sometimes have to kill the stinging insects (wasps and hornets) when they begin building a nest in an area where someone could be stung. We must also protect ourselves on occasions from other people. In the process we may have to do harm to another.

 

If 'do no harm' were a universal tenant there would be no natural disasters that caused the death of living organisms. We know this is not the case. Remember, Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu told us to observe the nature of things and try to live within the processes.

 

 

 

Hi Marblehead!,

 

Well said.., this is what I believe to be the most natural way.

 

There is no existence without the harming of something living.

 

It is the intentional, needless destruction, that is the issue to me.

 

Just like knowing how to live with knowing when enough is enough,

so to, this applies to the idea of Do No Harm.

There is what's necessary for our survival and then there is the aspect

of wanton excess and using the guise of saying, harm is harm...

"what's the difference?"

 

There is always a difference. When we purposely choose to harm without

regard for our actions being necessary... we harm the world/ourselves.

 

Living an existence Devoid of reverence for life

and the value of that life, is like a blindness of Tao.

 

Peace!

[RyanO]

Okay. It has been argued that 'do no harm' is not one of the concepts put forth by Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu. I have found no justification to support an arguement against this thought..

 

 

Right, see here #4: http://www.tao.org/tao.html

 

The ideas of universal compassion and non-violence definitely have more of a Buddhist and Hindu rather than a Taoist flavor, in general. Taoism tends to be more earth-centered, and harming other creatures is a fact of our reality.

 

Can plants really feel pain? I thought one of the big indicators of feeling was having a limbic (emotional) system. So, for instance, fish do not have a fully developed limbic system, and so many people think its ok to eat them and not other forms of meat.

 

But if plants, why not bacteria? Or germs that our body is constantly killing off by the billions just to stay alive? I wonder how the Jain view of non-violence would have evolved if it had an understanding of micro-organisms.

 

I tend to agree with the 'do no unnecessary intentional harm' view. But it is important to consider why this is different from an absolutist 'do no harm' view, because it is in significant ways.

[Marblehead]

Hi Strawdog and RyanO,

 

Good input. When I first started getting involved in internet forums this was one of the subjects that always came up. For a while I tried to justify holding to the 'do no harm' concept because of the input from many Buddhists and other belief systems. It just never really fit in with Taoist Philosophy.

 

I do try to ingage in both side of the arguement just to see if my root beliefs might have changed over time. To this point I must stick with what I mentioned above. But I have no problem with discussing the concept.