It's a Bird; It's a Plane; It's, uh, we don't know

[Ya Mu]

Any TTBers eye witness the "mysterious" missile launch off the coast from LA, CA???

[Sloppy Zhang]

You saw that? whoops

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah, but seriously, wasn't me, and I didn't see it. Heard about it, though.

[unmike]

Didn't see anything, but heard bits and pieces through the grapevine at the office. Any reliable info? I was outside a good chunk of the day.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Didn't see anything, but heard bits and pieces through the grapevine at the office. Any reliable info? I was outside a good chunk of the day.

 

Lotta people saying a lot of stuff:

 

"It's clearly an airplane contrail," John Pike, a defense expert and director of GlobalSecurity.org, told CNN. "It's an optical illusion that looks like it's going up, whereas in reality it's going toward the camera. The tip of the contrail is moving far too slowly to be a rocket. When it's illuminated by the sunset, you can see hundreds of miles of it ... all the way to the horizon."

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

It's a "weather balloon".

[Ya Mu]

As far as mainstream media goes it appears CBS has more info. It was one of their affiliate stations that caught it on camera. Sure as heck doesn't LOOK like an airplane. Public will probably never know.

[Taomeow]

Well, take a look:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SU3R21gDqw

 

I saw another one very similar to this one today, in Encinitas, also over the ocean. Not as big, but also very unusual. I was driving, so I couldn't take a picture. It looked exactly like this one where you see it against the sunset:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UUi1gdmTk

 

I watch the sky every day and to me it looks like a chemtrail gone berserk. They weren't spraying here at all for at least four months, after years of weekly and sometimes daily heavy spraying, I thought maybe the economy is in such a bad shape that they couldn't afford it anymore. But about ten days ago they started spraying again. Today there were the usual tic-tac-toe chemtrail grids by the ocean, but this one was right over the ocean, smack against the sunset, something I don't remember seeing before. Usually they don't spray into the sunset, it's more like morning through late afternoon. They spray close to the coastline and the chemtrails trail inland with the wind turning into "clouds" as they go. I don't mistake contrails for chemtrails, they behave very differently. Contrails dissipate within minutes. Chemtrails linger for hours and transform, slowly, into what looks "natural." Only they don't start out this way.

[Ya Mu]

Well, take a look:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SU3R21gDqw

 

I saw another one very similar to this one today, in Encinitas, also over the ocean. Not as big, but also very unusual. I was driving, so I couldn't take a picture. It looked exactly like this one where you see it against the sunset:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9UUi1gdmTk

 

I watch the sky every day and to me it looks like a chemtrail gone berserk. They weren't spraying here at all for at least four months, after years of weekly and sometimes daily heavy spraying, I thought maybe the economy is in such a bad shape that they couldn't afford it anymore. But about ten days ago they started spraying again. Today there were the usual tic-tac-toe chemtrail grids by the ocean, but this one was right over the ocean, smack against the sunset, something I don't remember seeing before. Usually they don't spray into the sunset, it's more like morning through late afternoon. They spray close to the coastline and the chemtrails trail inland with the wind turning into "clouds" as they go. I don't mistake contrails for chemtrails, they behave very differently. Contrails dissipate within minutes. Chemtrails linger for hours and transform, slowly, into what looks "natural." Only they don't start out this way.

 

I saw the video but was wondering if anyone here saw it in real time. If it was a plane it seems that the air traffic controllers would know? Ah, I guess they wouldn't, especially if it was a plane doing spraying.

It is, however, certainly coincidental that there is a navy base right about where it looked that it came from.

 

For the first time, yesterday I saw the crisscross patterns you describe in my area and yes, to me they certainly did not look like normal trails.

[Marblehead]

Well, maybe whoever shot it off will fess up to it. But then, maybe not.

[VCraigP]

I saw the video but was wondering if anyone here saw it in real time. If it was a plane it seems that the air traffic controllers would know? Ah, I guess they wouldn't, especially if it was a plane doing spraying.

It is, however, certainly coincidental that there is a navy base right about where it looked that it came from.

 

For the first time, yesterday I saw the crisscross patterns you describe in my area and yes, to me they certainly did not look like normal trails.

 

to me it seems like a great opportunity to have people question the consensus reality.

 

Q: Was it a rocket?

Scientist/expert A: Not a rocket. It was a contrail.

 

Q: Why did such an unusual contrail get formed.

A: Well, er ...that's what contrails do all the time.

 

Q: Really, then why is this such a big deal and made every body look?

A: Well I guess thats why "they" don't usually spray in the evening....ooops, did I say that outloud. Well, maybe it was a rocket after all....gulp

[Fu_dog]

I live close to Kennedy Space Center. I have seen many rocket launches that look similar.

 

So for my money, it was some sort of rocket.

 

Military rockets are not announced to the public, never admitted to.

[Dainin]

Last Friday night I was at the Santa Barbara Mission, sitting on the patio with three classmates. We had all just finished a week of training there with Dr. Roger Jahnke. I looked up into the sky and saw a bright flame-like light flash in the sky, and pointed it out to my friends. It lasted for a few seconds, then the brightness faded until it looked like a regular airplane light, but then a second or two later it developed a long tail like a comet. It went across the sky like this for about a minute, then the tail faded, and it went back the "airplane light" mode. This seemed to be the end of it, but when I looked up again a little while later the bright flash was happening again. Then it disappeared. We all agreed that we had never seen anything like it before. I figured it was probably some kind of experimental military aircraft.

 

When I saw this other thing had happened in Los Angeles two days later, I thought there might be some connection to what we had seen not too far away from there...although what we saw was flying horizontally across the sky, whereas the one in L.A. was going up vertically. Hmmm....

[ralis]

Well, take a look:

 

 

I watch the sky every day and to me it looks like a chemtrail gone berserk. They weren't spraying here at all for at least four months, after years of weekly and sometimes daily heavy spraying, I thought maybe the economy is in such a bad shape that they couldn't afford it anymore. But about ten days ago they started spraying again. Today there were the usual tic-tac-toe chemtrail grids by the ocean, but this one was right over the ocean, smack against the sunset, something I don't remember seeing before. Usually they don't spray into the sunset, it's more like morning through late afternoon. They spray close to the coastline and the chemtrails trail inland with the wind turning into "clouds" as they go. I don't mistake contrails for chemtrails, they behave very differently. Contrails dissipate within minutes. Chemtrails linger for hours and transform, slowly, into what looks "natural." Only they don't start out this way.

 

I have heard all the arguments in regards to the so called factual basis of chem trails. No one to my knowledge has produced a factual basis for the existence of chem trails. There are many variables that would have a dramatic effect on contrails. Climate change, atmospheric conditions such as temperature, moisture and weather patterns would all be contributing variables to such a phenomenon.

[Taomeow]

I have heard all the arguments in regards to the so called factual basis of chem trails. No one to my knowledge has produced a factual basis for the existence of chem trails.

 

Can you please specify your sources -- who exactly did you hear "all the arguments" from?

[joeblast]

My .02,

 

I saw an earlier picture of this showing the first sections of the 'plume' vertically. Rockets can take off vertically, planes cant, unless we're talking a jet fighter.

 

Jet contrails form from condensation - contrails must cool before becoming visible, hence there being some amount of distance in between the jet and the contrail. The plume in this instance was immediately after the craft.

 

Not to mention, do you see the spiraling in the 'plume'? Rockets spiral, jets and planes do not. And that is not the same as distortion of the plume from wind shear.

 

Notice the fiery exhaust? Jets have a much more focused exhaust, this was much wider and dispersed, you saw the flames out the back on the moving vid. Glint from the sun? puh-leeze, are we expected to be that stupid??

 

I saw these explain-aways saying it appeared to be coming towards and hence slow speed - I saw more convincing arguments that this was indeed going away from the vantage point, making a much higher speed going away much more plausible.

 

Rockets absolutely CAN change direction.

 

If this was a plane or a jet, there would have been no confusion. It would have been on the FAA's roster, so to speak.

 

The only logical conclusion here is a rather nefarious one, namely that either China or Russia, someone with sufficient sub technology, crept up to demonstrate the lack of security. If it was a Navy test missle, cruise or ballistic, it could have been easily explained away with immediate verification - it wasnt - and if they did launch something, why would they claim they didnt? A US launch doesnt really fit the data here. And it wasnt Virgin Galactic, either, because they launch that from a mother ship at 40,000 feet.

[joeblast]

Contrails dissipate within minutes. Chemtrails linger for hours and transform, slowly, into what looks "natural." Only they don't start out this way.

Sorry taomeow, gotta call you out on "contrails disappear within minutes" - as long as you werent intending that to be definitive Water vapor is transparent at some temperatures and pressures, opaque at other temperatures and pressures - the local conditions are what determines whether they disperse quickly or slowly. Contrails are mainly water vapor with a small amount of fuel byproduct, much like car exhaust, only jet fuel burns more cleanly, it has like 30 more octane than what we put in our cars and a higher combustion temperature.

[Taomeow]

Sorry taomeow, gotta call you out on "contrails disappear within minutes" - as long as you werent intending that to be definitive Water vapor is transparent at some temperatures and pressures, opaque at other temperatures and pressures - the local conditions are what determines whether they disperse quickly or slowly. Contrails are mainly water vapor with a small amount of fuel byproduct, much like car exhaust, only jet fuel burns more cleanly, it has like 30 more octane than what we put in our cars and a higher combustion temperature.

I am talking only local conditions, only in southern CA (typically very low humidity, stable San Diego North County Coastal climate -- the weather doesn't change much even seasonally, let alone from day to day... our weather men/women report the weather with a yawn... "did you like it yesterday? did you like it today? well, then you're gonna like it tomorrow... and the day after tomorrow... and the next one... 'cause it's gonna be exactly the same.") I'm talking about what I observe, not what I theorize about. Two planes. One leaves a trail, the other one leaves a trail. I'm watching both simultaneously. One trail dissipates within minutes. The other one lingers for hours. It's not something someone told me. It's what I see. Every week, and sometimes every day.

 

Not to mention that I read labels on produce, cosmetics, baby formula, pet food, drug store vitamins, everything... If you know what they put in the food, water, shampoo, moisturizers, products for children and animals, I mean, if you really know what it is and what it does in the body, you would be hard pressed to believe nothing is added to the air. It would simply make no sense to include one hundred thousand new chemicals every year into what we eat, drink and put on our skin (I am not kidding, the figure is a bit obsolete though, one hundred thousand was ten years ago, I don't know what it is now, but I can find out) and not do anything about the air. Corexit anyone?..

[joeblast]

Ever seen an aviation weather feed?

 

This will get OT if we continue here...but weather comes in cells...parallax gets severe...oftentimes there are thousands of feet if not tens of thousands in between contrails...I've looked and to this day have never seen any credible evidence of the "chem" portion, unless it is of course referring to the fuel byproduct.

Edited November 11, 2010 by joeblast

[Taomeow]

Ever seen an aviation weather feed?

 

This will get OT if we continue here...but weather comes in cells...parallax gets severe...oftentimes there are thousands of feet if not tens of thousands in between contrails...I've looked and to this day have never seen any credible evidence of the "chem" portion, unless it is of course referring to the fuel byproduct.

 

Well, I am not going to argue any further, it took me several years to research but that counts for nothing because the starting point is not that. The starting point is to lose a belief system. Until this happens, no evidence of one's own eyes looking at tic-tac-toe grids in the sky, or confessions of pilots who did it, or scientists who developed it, or politicians who came up with reasons to implement it (all of which is available information) will ever penetrate the fortress, much else cause its mighty walls to crumble.

 

Sigh. It was so nice and safe living in the fortress of socially engineered beliefs when I had one too. I'm almost as nostalgic for that as I am for the grid-free skies of my childhood, which I remember so well, with such longing...

[Ya Mu]

I am talking only local conditions, only in southern CA (typically very low humidity, stable San Diego North County Coastal climate -- the weather doesn't change much even seasonally, let alone from day to day... our weather men/women report the weather with a yawn... "did you like it yesterday? did you like it today? well, then you're gonna like it tomorrow... and the day after tomorrow... and the next one... 'cause it's gonna be exactly the same.") I'm talking about what I observe, not what I theorize about. Two planes. One leaves a trail, the other one leaves a trail. I'm watching both simultaneously. One trail dissipates within minutes. The other one lingers for hours. It's not something someone told me. It's what I see. Every week, and sometimes every day.

 

Not to mention that I read labels on produce, cosmetics, baby formula, pet food, drug store vitamins, everything... If you know what they put in the food, water, shampoo, moisturizers, products for children and animals, I mean, if you really know what it is and what it does in the body, you would be hard pressed to believe nothing is added to the air. It would simply make no sense to include one hundred thousand new chemicals every year into what we eat, drink and put on our skin (I am not kidding, the figure is a bit obsolete though, one hundred thousand was ten years ago, I don't know what it is now, but I can find out) and not do anything about the air. Corexit anyone?..

Ah, surely, and how many enjoy their mainstream toothpaste in the morning and again at night. Guess what it says to do if you swallow? TTB'ers probably already know; most sheeple don't.

[goldisheavy]

I didn't see it personally but I am certain it's a rocket. I base my certainty on one of the videos where the trajectory is pretty obvious and it's a trajectory of rocket.

Edited November 11, 2010 by goldisheavy

[Machin Shin]

Sea Launch or a submarine. I don't know for sure since I didn't give the orders to fire.

[joeblast]

my brother's a pilot, gave me a pretty convincing rundown - he thought it looked like a missile at first too but it just didnt hold up to full scrutiny - one other big thing is that the only reports of anything looking missile-like were all from a certain small subset of vantage points:

 

 

nutshell:

http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/

 

 

Seems to be that if there was a missile launch, even 35 miles out in the ocean, there's instruments that would have detected it before a guy in a helicopter "saw something." I think the biggest thing is I dont see any evidence disproving this theory, while there definitely is evidence to disprove the missile theory - of course I cant say with complete certainty...but its not my job, so I dont need to be certain either way

[Cloudhand]

my brother's a pilot, gave me a pretty convincing rundown - he thought it looked like a missile at first too but it just didnt hold up to full scrutiny - one other big thing is that the only reports of anything looking missile-like were all from a certain small subset of vantage points:

 

 

nutshell:

http://uncinus.wordp...m/2010/11/09/4/

 

 

Seems to be that if there was a missile launch, even 35 miles out in the ocean, there's instruments that would have detected it before a guy in a helicopter "saw something." I think the biggest thing is I dont see any evidence disproving this theory, while there definitely is evidence to disprove the missile theory - of course I cant say with complete certainty...but its not my job, so I dont need to be certain either way

 

 

Sometimes we see what we want to see.

[TzuJanLi]

I live close to Kennedy Space Center. I have seen many rocket launches that look similar.

 

So for my money, it was some sort of rocket.

 

Military rockets are not announced to the public, never admitted to.

Ditto.. my dad worked for Pan Am as down range support manager, i've also seen hundreds of launches and this is consistent with missile trails.. very similar to Polaris and Poseidon trails.. i've never seen jet engines make that sort of trail, even the old kerosene burners..

 

Be well..